Incredible Aussie rescue, Melbourne to Port Fairy

[Hwyl]

There is something to be said for stern scoops and GPS. I am impressed that the skipper figured out the rate of drift of the EPIRB

http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/rep...er-yacht-sinks


I found itthrough Charlie Doanes blog http://www.wavetrain.net/

[PeterSibley]

You are right ,a marvelous effort by all concerned !

[John B]

Did anyone say why the boat sank. I've re read what I thought was the appropriate paragraph but can't see it, something about the way its written just winds me up.

[Portland]

http://www.moynegazette.com.au/news/...s/2519045.aspx .
Regards Rob J.

[snow(Alan H)]

something about the way its written just winds me up.

I agree - reads / sounds like the writer is warming up for a novel - bits like below just do not sit right.

'With decades of experience behind him, Ross could be relied on to remain cool and calm at all times. His unflinching resolve would be essential as events unfolded'

'His quiet “can do” attitude and his strength and agility meant he would play a key role in the way the crew responded to the events that were to come'

'The main event was about to commence'

[Hwyl]

I think it was more a cruise in company than a race, the rescuing boat had a in mast roller furling main.

I had a friend recently lose the speed impeller dropping of a wave, he swears the threads engaged well when he screwed it down, that could explain the incursion of water from the bow.

I took this picture of a boat in Wilmington NC, the damage done by a loose anchor obviously.I've heard of boats being lost this way. In the Aussie case it's all speculation on my part.


It should be noted that the boat in the picture is holed in what appears to be a self draining anchor locker, and so was not in danger of sinking from this damage. The Aussie boat "Intrepid" was a Beneteau and may have also had this kind of anchor locker.

[Portland]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inception_(Yacht)
http://www.orcv.org.au/index.php?opt...iry&Itemid=516 .
Regards Rob J.

[John B]

Yeah, just not interested in reading a novel today I guess. Thanks for the data.

A Bloke I met in Tonga last year found his boat floating up to the floorboards halfway there after a gasket around some cables into his anchor locker punched out. The boat was filling the locker and a 2 inch hole ( less cables) was letting the water through into the forepeak.

and another slightly related story, a couple of months ago one of our Classic Yacht assn friends and sometime WBf'er on passage down the West coast went forward in a seaway to re secure his anchor and came away less a finger.

[johnno]

I'd be interested in comments by those that really know, but what stood out to me in this story was that a boat (which had decided to enter a race with a known front due during the night) was not able to reef its sails to the degree they considered desirable. The next (ten) pages of the middle part of the story was all about the very undesirable circumstance they therefore got themselves into by having to sail through the night with an overpowered main.

To me as a bay sailor, the inability of an ocean-going boat to reef to the extent required (and not because of an equipment failure) seems undesirable to say the least.

[John B]

Its ludicrous.

[Larks]

I haven't bothered reading the story and don't know much about the race or requirements John, but I'd have expected most race committees, for anything other than a bay race, these days to require a safety demonstration prior to racing, including displaying and demonstrating the capable use of all safety equipment, reefing systems, storm sails, radios etc.

[PeterSibley]

Did anyone say why the boat sank. I've re read what I thought was the appropriate paragraph but can't see it, something about the way its written just winds me up.

I'd say it's being written for a non nautical magazine article, it's normal journalese with left and right instead of port and starboard. Other than that quite a complete and well written essay .

No complaints... maybe my attention span was a bit relaxed today .

[Portland]

I can't understand why they would want to race in those conditions , the coast there is particularly notorious for shipwrecks .
As a matter of interest AMSA regularly train with CG Portland and CG Warrnambool , in ocean rescue , in the area .
Rob J.

[John B]

My frustration is at the writing and as Pete says , maybe its just that journalists style. I'd just like some facts without all the hyperbole and thanks to Rob there's some of that in the link he posted.

That shouldn't detract from the fact that they've done everything right after the event and God knows , with the recent Farralones tragedy and the boat thats just been run down off California we could all do with some good news.

The conditions.. they went out in something and got something else and thats what can happen. I feel bad about my ludicrous comment now. That was aimed at the inabilty to reef, if thats what has happened( not the fact they were there). I'll try and read it again later on tonight.

[Phil Y]

Jeez you blokes are harsh critics. Ok its a report written up a by a journalist, for a non-expert audience. I reckon he's done a good job of making it digestible for people who don't know a sheet from a stay. I didn't read that trybooking's main was a problem. As far as I can see there is no mention of the main-I assume that was furled before the front came in-they were sailing with No.4 headsail, and in 50 to 70kt winds had some trouble with the furler. Mate, sh-t happens sometimes! No amount of demonstration to the race committee in the marina is going to overcome that. And they set off in fine conditions, with a good forecast-well into the race the forecast changed, and substantially underestimated the strength of the approaching front-which is pretty common in those waters.

To me the skipper seemed far too focused on sticking with his original plan. One of my pet hates is all the scenario planning and emergency response planning that safety experts insist on these days. The reality is you don't know until you've been there for real. The skipper had decided on a 5 mile safety margin. And stuck with that when the wind blew up to 70 knts, he couldn't furl his headsail, his GPS was going on the blink and he was uncertain whether his engine would start. GET SOME SEA ROOM!!! WTF??? 1 boat out of 14 finished the race, and this dude is still trying to push on. What is going on in that man's head? I've been in those waters in rough weather. This time of year it is cold. Its as dark as the inside of a black dog. The waves pile up something very nasty. He was in a pure survival situation. And he tries to keep racing, with a 5 mile clearance from the coast as his safety factor. IDIOT!

But wow. The rescue was amazing. A real feat of seamanship. These guys are cold, wet, tired, probably scared. Boat is being tossed all around, can hardly stay in position in the cockpit to steer. Howling wind and rain, can't see, can't hear. And they find the crew of the other boat, drifting in the water. That in itself is amazing. Have you ever tried to retrieve a small dark object, thrown overboard, at night, in rough weather?

Close quarters manouevering in those seas is almost impossible. The seas would have been 6-8 metres, cresting, breaking, spray everywhere, howling wind, communication on deck almost impossible. They drift down on the crew of the sunk boat once-nearly killing them I guess, come round again, and retrieve them, onto a sugar scoop stern, which would be one minute under water, and the next 4 feet in the air. The boat, with all sails furled now, would be rolling 45 degrees or more from side to side, pitching, the bow falling off, the skipper is worried about engaging the prop for fear of cutting up a survivor, or wrapping an errant rope around the prop.

The crew in the water are exhausted, hypothermic, in shock.

And they saved every one of them.

Bloody amazing, and as an account for general consumption, well reported.

Just my humble opinion.

[johnno]

Sorry, my error I said main and I meant headsail. However my comment still stands...as reported they simply said that they couldn't reef the sail because of the tension brought on by the wind. There was no reporting of a problem with the reefing gear at all.

In other words, you can't reef this sail with this reefing system in a very strong wind. To me, with a severe weather forecast known about, and predicted to last the entire night, in a known very dangerous area, in a boat they had sailed before, to not reef this sail before the weather hit, to not try to alter course and see if that helped, etc, to me simply means I wouldn't like to go sailing with someone that makes decisions that way. The inability to reef put them in a very nasty situation.

I wasn't having a go at the author, or indeed the point of the story, which was their great rescue, but as you go on to say Phil, there were some very strange decisions being made before the other boat got into trouble.

[Larks]

Sorry, my error I said main and I meant headsail. However my comment still stands...as reported they simply said that they couldn't reef the sail because of the tension brought on by the wind. There was no reporting of a problem with the reefing gear at all.

In other words, you can't reef this sail with this reefing system in a very strong wind. To me, with a severe weather forecast known about, and predicted to last the entire night, in a known very dangerous area, in a boat they had sailed before, to not reef this sail before the weather hit, to not try to alter course and see if that helped, etc, to me simply means I wouldn't like to go sailing with someone that makes decisions that way. The inability to reef put them in a very nasty situation.

I wasn't having a go at the author, or indeed the point of the story, which was their great rescue, but as you go on to say Phil, there were some very strange decisions being made before the other boat got into trouble.

Without really knowing what the problem was, I do tend to agree John. Unless it was jammed he could/should have been able to luff up to release the preasure and furl the sail. Failing that He could/should have dropped it down the sail track onto the deck. The report suggests that he simply didn't want the sail to flog and tear, if that is really the case it does also suggest that some of his judgements were rather odd.

I'd add, that when I read the story my first picture of what might cause so much water ingress in a heavy sea was of the deck to hull join failing up around the bow area with the pressure on the headsail.

[PeterSibley]

Without really knowing what the problem was, I do tend to agree John. Unless it was jammed he could/should have been able to luff up to release the preasure and furl the sail. Failing that He could/should have dropped it down the sail track onto the deck. The report suggests that he simply didn't want the sail to flog and tear, if that is really the case it does also suggest that some of his judgements were rather odd.

I'd add, that when I read the story my first picture of what might cause so much water ingress in a heavy sea was of the deck to hull join failing up around the bow area with the pressure on the headsail.

Greg , not knowing much about glass construction .... how would that joint be done and what is the best way?

[m2c1Iw]

Jeez you blokes are harsh critics. Ok its a report written up a by a journalist, for a non-expert audience. I reckon he's done a good job of making it digestible for people who don't know a sheet from a stay. I didn't read that trybooking's main was a problem. As far as I can see there is no mention of the main-I assume that was furled before the front came in-they were sailing with No.4 headsail, and in 50 to 70kt winds had some trouble with the furler. Mate, sh-t happens sometimes! No amount of demonstration to the race committee in the marina is going to overcome that. And they set off in fine conditions, with a good forecast-well into the race the forecast changed, and substantially underestimated the strength of the approaching front-which is pretty common in those waters.

To me the skipper seemed far too focused on sticking with his original plan. One of my pet hates is all the scenario planning and emergency response planning that safety experts insist on these days. The reality is you don't know until you've been there for real. The skipper had decided on a 5 mile safety margin. And stuck with that when the wind blew up to 70 knts, he couldn't furl his headsail, his GPS was going on the blink and he was uncertain whether his engine would start. GET SOME SEA ROOM!!! WTF??? 1 boat out of 14 finished the race, and this dude is still trying to push on. What is going on in that man's head? I've been in those waters in rough weather. This time of year it is cold. Its as dark as the inside of a black dog. The waves pile up something very nasty. He was in a pure survival situation. And he tries to keep racing, with a 5 mile clearance from the coast as his safety factor. IDIOT!

But wow. The rescue was amazing. A real feat of seamanship. These guys are cold, wet, tired, probably scared. Boat is being tossed all around, can hardly stay in position in the cockpit to steer. Howling wind and rain, can't see, can't hear. And they find the crew of the other boat, drifting in the water. That in itself is amazing. Have you ever tried to retrieve a small dark object, thrown overboard, at night, in rough weather?

Close quarters manouevering in those seas is almost impossible. The seas would have been 6-8 metres, cresting, breaking, spray everywhere, howling wind, communication on deck almost impossible. They drift down on the crew of the sunk boat once-nearly killing them I guess, come round again, and retrieve them, onto a sugar scoop stern, which would be one minute under water, and the next 4 feet in the air. The boat, with all sails furled now, would be rolling 45 degrees or more from side to side, pitching, the bow falling off, the skipper is worried about engaging the prop for fear of cutting up a survivor, or wrapping an errant rope around the prop.

The crew in the water are exhausted, hypothermic, in shock.

And they saved every one of them.

Bloody amazing, and as an account for general consumption, well reported.

Just my humble opinion.

I concur and your post is as well written as the article. I read the issue was with the headsail furler and anyone trying to fix a wind in one much less in 70 knots knows they are something not to be fooled with on a slippery heaving deck. Yes perhaps a gung ho attitude but just as well they did continue on or the sailing community would be a few short.

[Larks]

Greg , not knowing much about glass construction .... how would that joint be done and what is the best way?

I couldn't be entirely sure about this one Peter, but they are moulded seperately and I think Beneteau are generally both bonded (with 3m 5200 or something like that) and bolted, possibly with the toerail incorporated, so not actually epoxied over the join. It's not uncommon for them to develop a leak.

[Larks]

I concur and your post is as well written as the article. I read the issue was with the headsail furler and anyone trying to fix a wind in one much less in 70 knots knows they are something not to be fooled with on a slippery heaving deck. Yes perhaps a gung ho attitude but just as well they did continue on or the sailing community would be a few short.

Mike I still wonder how they could have found themselves in 70 knots with that amount of headsail still out. I've been in 70+ knots a couple of times and in one of them it ripped both our storm sails to shreads (it was well over 70 knots but the windex topped out at 75 ish). Although the wind built very quickly it was a recogniseable front and we had plenty of time to get everything down and squared away and the storm sails janked on. I can not imagine how scary it must have been to have a #4 up in that sort of breeze. I gather from the story that they also saw the front coming.

I'm so in awe of the guys that picked these lucky fellows up and I don't envy the poor buggers for what they went through jumping into that ocean in just lifejackets and watching the other yacht search for them. I've got a very vivid idea of what it would have been like and it sends shivers down my spine.

[Portland]

This is the important bit , taken from the Port Fairy debrief.
"The ORCV will be sharing learning outcomes from the debrief for the benefit of local, national and international sailing communities in due course."
Regards Rob J.

[m2c1Iw]

Greg I think that was the gungho bit coming out and perhaps expecting what you might call a normal front, wind shift brief blast of 30-40 etc. IMHO roller furlers can be dangerous for exactly this reason even when cruising they pose a problem when things go wrong as you say they probably should have just dropped it which is easy to say in hindsight and from the comfort of my lounge chair. I've copped my share of nasty fronts but never sustained 50+gusting 70........scary.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Greg, I've read of some very dodgy joints but am not really in a position to judge them . It should be possible to make that joint as strong as the rest of the hull ...I wonder why it isn't ?

[Larks]

Thanks Greg, I've read of some very dodgy joints but am not really in a position to judge them . It should be possible to make that joint as strong as the rest of the hull ...I wonder why it isn't ?

I think they'd flex and work quite a bit under normal circumstances anyway but with that added pressure pumping the foredeck there must be some incredible forces at work. I once delivered a new Benneteau 54 from Marmaris to Bodrum in Turkey, I had to get it there overnight for a charter so I had to motor as the breeze was pretty dismal and it motored along at 12knots. But with what little breeze there was I had a choppy sea of about 2' to 3' and I honestly thought that those little waves were going to break this thing in half as she flexed badly along her flat hull. I put the main up to get her over on her side a bit and she was a little better but I lost any respect for Benneteau after that trip. I understand there are Benneteau' and there are Benneteau', depending on where they are built, but the sort of flexing that I experienced in this one would be what causes the joins to fail.

[Hwyl]

I tooo think that the 70Kts with the #4 is a bit bogus. The whole going to windward with just the jib in those seas is also a bit strange. Then "discovering" they could put the furling line on the winch gives you an idea as to their skill level.

I think the skippers pilot skills transferred here and that is what saved them.

[Phil Y]

Not sure I like the comment that my post is as well written as the article! I've worked a bit with pilots-and I suspect that the pilot training has a lot to do with the "stick to the plan" attitude. Pilots train and train and train. Then they sit in the cockpit on autopilot all day, and they plan and plan and plan. Where's my best alternate landing spot? What is the drill if there's a bird strike? What if the hosty forgets to milk in my coffee? Its all about planning everything in advance, so that when the **** hits the fan you react automatically, with a programmed response. So the 5 mile safety factor was not reconsidered. Pulling out of the race was not an option-except to rescue a boat in distress. To me, skipper on autopilot is scary, when the scenario planning obviously didn't consider the scenario they found themselves in. But when the skipper snapped out of that and started thinking, he excelled.

Gareth, number 4 is fairly small isn't it? Might have been their smallest headsail? And they might have figured they could roller reff it if the wind really blew up-remember just before the front hit they were thinking of changing up to a bigger headsl. Fronts down there can be very deceptive. And the way they were apparently sliding around in the cockpit, i'm guessing no-one wanted to go up onto the foredeck-wouldn't be surprised if the skipper had a safety rule prohibiting any foredeck work at night. I think this boat was probably set up with all sail handling lines led aft to the cockpit. And going to windward with just a headsail is not all that unusual-dropping the main is a pretty effective way of reefing on many boats. Granted though, the late discovery of the winch is kinda weird.

[m2c1Iw]

Not sure I like the comment that my post is as well written as the article!

OK your post was as poorly written as the article but I agree with most of the content.

[Phil Y]

Thats better