George Zimmerman lied to the court

[Tom Montgomery]

Zimmerman evidently lied to his attorney as well.

At his bond hearing, Zimmerman's attorney told the judge that his client was nearly indigent. The judge set bail at $150,000, 10% of which had to be posted in cash to gain his release from jail. Zimmerman's attorney now says he learned just Wednesday that his client has collected over $200,000 in cash donations via the Internet. He says he will reveal this new info to the court in a hearing today.

The Martin family attorney says Zimmerman's lie should result in him being returned to jail.

[Dan McCosh]

Sounds like he's running for office.

[S.V. Airlie]

So, what are you looking for here, a discussion, some questions some might have regarding this 200,000 bucks and the receipt for when he received the money..at the hearing or more recently? Never mind, forget it.

[htom]

I still think that Zimmerman should demand that the Black Panthers pay him the reward; he turned himself in, and that should qualify him for the million dollars (or whatever it was) that was to be paid for the person responsible for turning him into the cops.

[David G]

I still think that Zimmerman should demand that the Black Panthers pay him the reward; he turned himself in, and that should qualify him for the million dollars (or whatever it was) that was to be paid for the person responsible for turning him into the cops.

I certainly would!

[Uncle Duke]

I still think that Zimmerman should demand that the Black Panthers pay him the reward; he turned himself in, and that should qualify him for the million dollars (or whatever it was) that was to be paid for the person responsible for turning him into the cops.

Like the Taliban guy who turned himself in and then demanded the $100 reward?

The Afghan insurgent [Mohammad Ashan] , suspected of plotting two IED attacks against local security forces, turned himself in last week — to collect a $100 reward for his arrest, authorities said.

Ashan was immediately taken into custody after surrendering at a police checkpoint in the Paktika province while clutching a wanted poster bearing his bearded face, The Washington Post reported.

It was one of hundreds of posters distributed by authorities hunting Ashan and offering the $100 payoff, and Ashan wasted no time in demanding his C-note.

He didn't get the reward. Bet he's bummed.....

[Curtism]

Demanding the reward money is a pretty good idea. I'm pretty sure it was $10,000 by the way, nothing to sneeze at.

On the internet donations like that though, I wonder how they figure taxes. It's not like PAC that falls under FEC guidlines, since he's not running for any office. If you win $200 K in a lotto or sweepstakes they tax it at 33%. Maybe there's a gift tax or something?

[Mrleft8]

I think the "bounty" offered by "The New Black Panthers" was $10,000...
But the amazing part of this story is that anyone's surprised that he lied in court.... Does anyone really think that Zimmerman's going to tell the whole, unadulterated truth about this incident? Of course not. He's going to try to make himself out to be a misunderstood altruistic do gooder, and that's all anyone expects of him.

[S.V. Airlie]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.Second point, one's lawyer wouldn't say that a guy was lying and still be the guy's lawyer. If that is the case, the entire concept of lawyer client confidentiality would die a rapid death. Certainly the lawyer wouldn't be trusted.

[Curtism]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.

You're suggesting he raised $200k from last Friday to this Wednesday, 5 days?

[S.V. Airlie]

You're suggesting he raised $200k from last Friday to this Wednesday, 5 days?

You are saying it isn't possible?A few who believe in him and are rich, may have sent $50,000. each for all I know.o

[Curtism]

You are saying it isn't possible?A few who believe in him and are rich, may have sent $50,000. each for all I know.o

Anything's possible, I'm just questioning the likelyhood.

In any case there's a hearing today and he'll probably have to answer the questions himself, or his attorney will. So, we'll see soon enough, eh?

[Mrleft8]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.Second point, one's lawyer wouldn't say that a guy was lying and still be the guy's lawyer. If that is the case, the entire concept of lawyer client confidentiality would die a rapid death. Certainly the lawyer wouldn't be trusted.

LOL! ..... And do you know any lawyers that can be trusted?...... I don't, and some of them are good friends.... I still wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them if I thought they had something to gain from me....

[Phillip Allen]

bone pickers

[S.V. Airlie]

Someone going to trial has to trust someone.I would think a lawyer representing me is as good as it gets.

[Tom Montgomery]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.Second point, one's lawyer wouldn't say that a guy was lying and still be the guy's lawyer. If that is the case, the entire concept of lawyer client confidentiality would die a rapid death. Certainly the lawyer wouldn't be trusted.

If you follow the link I posted and read the entire story...

Zimmerman's lawyer says that he (the attorney himself) did not mislead the court because he was not aware, at the time of the bail hearing, his client had access to all that cash.

If I were the attorney I would seriously consider recusing myself and let Zimmerman find another lawyer. If I am the attorney and I discover my client is not truthful with me I walk.

[wardd]

i can see his defense , he can't get a fair trial because no lawyer will defend him

[Tom Montgomery]

He's gone through a couple already, IIRC.

[S.V. Airlie]

It was not the place for a lawyer to say anything.You mentioned that Zimmerman in your opening thread that zimmerman lied about the money. I agree, if he was my lawyer, he'd be out..pronto.If it appears to have become public knowledge especially. I don't think it is right to blurt out that Zimmerman lied on the threads unless the court decides that he did. Your second sentence is correct..the court decides and not someone jumping the gun. borders on yellow journalism to me.I did not read the link for one reason; Martin's attorney says Zimmerman lied. I read that and thought, of course the Martin's attorney would say Zimmerman lied..DUH!.. I now have read it.I'll wait for the judge to decide..

[Mrleft8]

What?

[Bobcat]

If you follow the link I posted and read the entire story...

Zimmerman's lawyer says that he (the attorney himself) did not mislead the court because he was not aware, at the time of the bail hearing, his client had access to all that cash.

If I were the attorney I would seriously consider recusing myself and let Zimmerman find another lawyer. If I am the attorney and I discover my client is not truthful with me I walk.

Agreed, but I wonder if the lawyer thought to ask about donations. It seems when the issue is making bail, and the client neglects to mention $200,000, instead pleading or allowing the lawyer to plead poverty, Zimmerman has --- as we say in the business--- "credibility issues."

I suspect that there will be a change of attorneys soon. Unless the current lawyer is seduced by the lime light

[S.V. Airlie]

What?

Doug..you should send this to bobbys on his thread about "what I have learned about debating in the bilge." bobbys seems to have missed ours in the list.What did Hearst say about the Spanish-American war? Something about "you supply the pictures, I'll supply the war". it's almost the same here.We have a judge who will determine whether zimmerman is guilty or not. It is not up to the journalist to say zimmerman is lying. And to top this off, have the lawyer for martin to say zimmerman lied at the hearing. If the judge comes out saying not guilty, some people will and should have some egg on their faces.This type of news is only written to cause a splash and hopefully a division between those who read it..

[Peerie Maa]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.Second point, one's lawyer wouldn't say that a guy was lying and still be the guy's lawyer. If that is the case, the entire concept of lawyer client confidentiality would die a rapid death. Certainly the lawyer wouldn't be trusted.

The one time I did jury duty, the defence lawyer caught the defendant and his family out in a perjury. Lawyers here, and I suspect in the States in effect swear an oath not to be complicit in dishonest testimony.

[S.V. Airlie]

If he asks the question about the money personally by the judge in court. He would have to answer truthfully..I agree. Giving the information out outside of the courtroom and not under oath is another matter.Can we just wait for the judge to make a determination? Can we just skip the guessing, the inuendos,and the finger pointing until then?Is that possible?Above all, stop writing headlines that haven't been determined to be true. If you do, at least use "alleged" somewhere..

[Peerie Maa]

If he asks the question about the money personally by the judge in court. He would have to answer truthfully..I agree. Giving the information out outside of the courtroom and not under oath is another matter.Can we just wait for the judge to make a determination? Can we just skip the guessing, the inuendos,and the finger pointing until then?Is that possible?

Is that aimed at me Jamie. I'm just pointing out that lawyers are obliged to abide by certain ethical standards, whose implications you seem not to be aware of.

[Bobcat]

The one time I did jury duty, the defence lawyer caught the defendant and his family out in a perjury. Lawyers here, and I suspect in the States in effect swear an oath not to be complicit in dishonest testimony.

That is correct: you cannot knowingly put on false testimony. There is a conflict between that ethical duty of the lawyer and the right of a criminal accused to testify in his or her own behalf. So often happens is this: The defense attorney tells the court that defendant will testify, but does not ask any questions. The defendant gives a narrative from the witness stand without his lawyer's help. Everyone, but the jury, knows what's going on. The prosecution then cross examines and usually reveals the lies.

[John Smith]

Doug..When he was in court, had he received the donations already or did the donations he received come after the bail hearing.Might be something to think about if you care to.Second point, one's lawyer wouldn't say that a guy was lying and still be the guy's lawyer. If that is the case, the entire concept of lawyer client confidentiality would die a rapid death. Certainly the lawyer wouldn't be trusted.

the more pertinent question is whether he knew money was being raised. In order to send money, a specific place needed to be in place to receive it, and I very much doubt he was not aware of the efforts being made.

My question is why would people send him money for his defense?

[htom]

When did Zimmerman put up the PayPal link (oh, wait, DID Zimmerman put up the link?), when were the times that he checked the account balance?

[Phillip Allen]

the best I can make out is that some here want Z to pay more to be bonded out and that's all this is about

[Bobcat]

the best I can make out is that some here want Z to pay more to be bonded out and that's all this is about

Then you have completely missed the point.

You can't tell the court that you have no money when in fact you do.

[S.V. Airlie]

Is that aimed at me Jamie. I'm just pointing out that lawyers are obliged to abide by certain ethical standards, whose implications you seem not to be aware of.

It's not addressed to anyone specifically.And I think I spoke about obligations by lawyers already.

[Phillip Allen]

Then you have completely missed the point.

You can't tell the court that you have no money when in fact you do.

(sigh) that defense fund is just that, a special fund and not his to play with...Z cannot use it on anything else. if he has little or no money beyond the defense fund then he could honestly say just that... spending by the judge to deminish Z's defense would be wrong don't you think?

[Donn]

(sigh) that defense fund is just that, a special fund and not his to play with...Z cannot use it on anything else. if he has little or no money beyond the defense fund then he could honestly say just that... spending by the judge to deminish[sic] Z's defense would be wrong don't you think?

Really? This CNN story says he's already spent over $50,000 of it on "living expenses."

[S.V. Airlie]

Phillip just forget it. In the world of horses, there is a term "they have the bit in their teeth" and their minds are made up.

[S.V. Airlie]

Phillip just forget it. In the world of horses, there is a term "they have the bits in their teeth" and their minds are made up.

[Phillip Allen]

Really? This CNN story says he's already spent over $50,000 of it on "living expenses."

I didn't read that CNN story...it dosen't chang my point, however but it does look black for Z...that money (were it me instead of Z) would be untouchable except for direct defense costs

[Donn]

I didn't read that CNN story...it dosen't chang my point, however but it does look black for Z...that money (were it me instead of Z) would be untouchable except for direct defense costs

So basically, you have no real idea what the money can or has been used for...right?

[Bobcat]

(sigh) that defense fund is just that, a special fund and not his to play with...Z cannot use it on anything else. if he has little or no money beyond the defense fund then he could honestly say just that... spending by the judge to deminish Z's defense would be wrong don't you think?

The CNN article that Donn posted stated that $5000 from the fund went to pay his bail. So you're incorrect when you say the defense can't be used (sigh)

[htom]

Then you have completely missed the point.

You can't tell the court that you have no money when in fact you do.

Of course you can. If you don't know you have money, you can even do so honestly. And the courts can even accept that as a valid reason for not lying and saying you have money when you think you don't.

What is it about this case that has normally sensible people losing their minds?

[Bobcat]

Of course you can. If you don't know you have money, you can even do so honestly. And the courts can even accept that as a valid reason for not lying and saying you have money when you think you don't.

What is it about this case that has normally sensible people losing their minds?

You're absolutely right of course: if you don't know you have money, when you really do, it's not dishonest to say you have no money. I assume -- and I could be wrong-- that Zimmerman knew of the donations, but kept quiet.

For the records, I don't think I am losing my mind

Again, I could be wrong

[Phillip Allen]

Of course you can. If you don't know you have money, you can even do so honestly. And the courts can even accept that as a valid reason for not lying and saying you have money when you think you don't.

What is it about this case that has normally sensible people losing their minds?

the answer is... emotional overload

[B_B]

Of course you can. If you don't know you have money, you can even do so honestly. And the courts can even accept that as a valid reason for not lying and saying you have money when you think you don't.

What is it about this case that has normally sensible people losing their minds?

Just FYI, he knew about the money in the account because it was used to pay his bail.
What's not in question in this case, is that normally insensible people,having no mind to lose, still feel the need to be contrarian.

About $5,000 from the website contribution was used in making bond, O'Mara said. The rest came from a loan secured by a family home.

[MiddleAgesMan]

Phillip just forget it. In the world of horses, there is a term "they have the bits in their teeth" and their minds are made up.

You can say that again.

Oh, wait. You just did.

[BrianW]

So what is the point of Zimmerman needing to be indigent in order to make bail?

Rich or poor, whether or nor someone is released on bail is about fleeing risks, not how much money is in their bank account.

What's important in this case, is that in the end, a judgement is made, and the families involved are about to have closure.

[B_B]

Rich or poor, whether or nor someone is released on bail is about fleeing risks, not how much money is in their bank account.

Exactly.

If Zimmerman had declared he had an additional $200,000 in cash available to him the judge may have had different thoughts regarding his flight risk.

When you're asked about your assets in court, it's best to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Phillip Allen]

then I guess the proof is in the putting... rather... the staying put

[B_B]

Some proof is in the lie, too.

[Phillip Allen]

Some proof is in the lie, too.

what lie?

[B_B]

what lie?

Read the thread from the top.

[John of Phoenix]

what lie?

Tell us again about how you think.