Scituate Rod & Gun Cease Fire

[Glen Longino]

..."I don't bother posting my thoughts"...S.V. Airlie

I've noticed that!

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

.... I'm not quite like that, not attacking and not defending - just trying to get at the issues as we learn the facts.

some time later

... I know that ......

Speculation well beyond the known facts.

[htom]

I find it very hard to believe that a ricochet from a bowling pin could travel three-quarters of a mile. Some metal or stone fixture near the bowling pins seems much more likely.

A demand that the range be designed so that a fired round can never leave the grounds is a demand that the range close. You can't really construct even a reasonable building like that.

[Ian McColgin]

htom raises an interesting point. I'd not know of stray bullets getting off range but perhaps the two gun club ranges I personally know have better facilities. It's certainly the case that if you google some combination of stray bullets and rifle ranges you find a lot of incidents. Not so many that one believes that all ranges must close, but clearly it's an issue.

[Hwyl]

thank you for voicing what I knew all along... it's so obvious I never think that there may actually be someone who dosen't already understand that... I see them as liars

There are plenty of ranges that contain all bullets http://www.bangorrifleclub.com/ for instance

[wardd]

are ranges required to carry insurance?

[Captain Intrepid]

A demand that the range be designed so that a fired round can never leave the grounds is a demand that the range close. You can't really construct even a reasonable building like that.

A demand that a range be designed so that a fired round can never leave the grounds under normal circumstances is a demand for reason.

[Ian McColgin]

I see from an afternoon's googling that safe ranges are not anomolous but there are also plenty of private and minicipal or state owned ranges that would rather pay damages than fix a problem. Some of the gun fancy take safety seriously while some profess safety but don't want to do anything differently from how they were taught as children.

[Horace]

There are plenty of ranges that contain all bullets http://www.bangorrifleclub.com/ for instance

Well, that's one, certainly, but Wales (?) is a right good hike for an afternoon's plinking. Not that many abandoned coal mines or railway tunnels available locally, unfortunately. And a range of 100 yards is adequate for .22 rimfire and most pistol target shooting, but not much else.

A demand that a range be designed so that a fired round can never leave the grounds under normal circumstances is a demand for reason.

Agreed. What would you consider to be acceptably abnormal circumstances? And how would you arrange for that certainty on a 500- or 1000-yard open air range?

[ccmanuals]

A similar situation is happning in San Antonio right now. Two golfers have been hit by stray bullets from a local range.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ge-3457227.php

[wardd]

is there a constitutional right to gun ranges?

i know there is for life

[Horace]

A similar situation is happening in San Antonio right now. One golfer may have been hit by a stray bullet from a local range.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ge-3457227.php

What an interesting article--plenty of claims and counter-claims to go around. (I've taken the liberty to correct your post for accuracy.)

[htom]

There are plenty of ranges that contain all bullets http://www.bangorrifleclub.com/ for instance

Bzzt. While recycling used railway tunnels may be a good idea, 100 yards is not what I consider to be rifle-sized, and it's only a start on the "containment problem". Someone who has a negligent discharge in the parking lot will find the security of the tunnel does not constrain their unintended firing. Can you shoot through the backstop? How about shooting the wrong way down the tunnel?

[ccmanuals]

What an interesting article--plenty of claims and counter-claims to go around. (I've taken the liberty to correct your post for accuracy.)

Thanks for the correction but to be really accurate it should state one golfer hit but many reportings of stray bullets on the golf course.

[Horace]

Thanks for the correction but to be really accurate it should state one golfer hit but many reportings of stray bullets on the golf course.

So we're lazy; shall we sue each other?

Did you bother to Google Map the two areas and the distance involved? Something is very wrong; it may be the range's facilities, or maybe something else is going on.

[wardd]

one additional safety could be ammo handed to the shooter on the line when he is in position to fire

[wardd]

well, that wouldn't work in my case... I bring out a loading block with the ammo segregated into groups for tests... no one gets to handle it but me

then you would have to change your procedure

[wardd]

you have a constitutional right to own a gun as per current law but i see no constitutional right to shoot it any time and under any circumstances you want

[wardd]

changing the topic?

no, meaning to shoot at a range is a privilege which you have to participate in safely

driving is a privilege you have to engage in safely

[wardd]

someone hands you your ammo when you are in position to fire and clears you to fire, not complicated

it could be someone else there to fire in turn

does the range where you fire have insurance to cover stray projectiles?

[wardd]

I don't think the public would go for that rule... especially the magazine gun shooters... it would not be possible to know if the magazine would feed properly without trying it out on the range... it would cause concern to bear hunters, for instance

you could prepare your ammo and mags ahead of time and put them in a container

shooter and ammo would approach the line seperately

were you ever in the service?

[ccmanuals]

So we're lazy; shall we sue each other?

Did you bother to Google Map the two areas and the distance involved? Something is very wrong; it may be the range's facilities, or maybe something else is going on.

Horace, I live here and know where they both are. I used to play that course.

[wardd]

I used to shoot at a black powder match which required that the shooter, in order:

Start a fire with flint and steel
Run at least 25 yards to the next station
Throw a knife or tomahawk at a target
Run to the next station
Shoot a skillet hanging in the bushes
Move a short distance and load while crouching down behind a bolder
Shoot at a charcoal briquette on as string
Run down a hill and set then spring a beaver trap
Run back up the hill and reload
Shoot at another gong back in the shadows
Run to another firing point and reload
Shoot at a small bag of flour to stop the clock

A timed event, needless to say

we all can't have what we want, some of us want not to be shot at

[Captain Intrepid]

how would you arrange for that certainty on a 500- or 1000-yard open air range?

My gut reaction is that there probably are gun ranges that don't have bullets exciting the range on a regular basis. I'd look to them for examples.

[wardd]

you don't seem to want to re-think your idea of someone handing the shooter one round at a time... it is impractical you know but you want everyone else to be tractable and not include yourself

look to the military for examples they have been at this for a long time and except for that ahole next to me with a jammed m1 trying to clear it while it was pointed at me i remember it as quite well controlled

he was dressed down quite properly

[wardd]

had you been talking to him the way you talk to us?

i don't remember who it was but it must have been somebody that wanted to do it his way

[Horace]

Horace, I live here and know where they both are. I used to play that course.

Good, an actual on-the-scene commentator. Am I correct in inferring that the distance involved is one mile or more? Here is a link to an article with a map showing the range and the location where the golfer was shot. (I won't bother with all the "allegedly's" that might be added.) Here is a second link to a Google Map of the same area. (Scroll out to see the range and golf course together.) Are you familiar enough with the range to state where the shot was likely to have originated from? And have you read in any of your local news sources what caliber the bullet was (or if it was pistol or rifle)?

[Horace]

A demand that a range be designed so that a fired round can never leave the grounds under normal circumstances is a demand for reason.

My gut reaction is that there probably are gun ranges that don't have bullets exciting the range on a regular basis. I'd look to them for examples.

Two different sets of criteria.

Which one do you want to go with? Not exiting on a regular basis? Or never under normal circumstances? I had asked you what you would consider normal circumstances.

[Ian McColgin]

I noticed in the story from San Antonio that ccmanuals cited the interesting line: "They cited a state statute that forbids cities or counties from regulating shooting ranges established before Sept. 1, 2011, and that prevents local governments from suing ranges without the Legislature's permission."

For the gun fancy: What is so special about a shooting range that unlike other sporting businesses it can't be regulated or sued?

[htom]

you could prepare your ammo and mags ahead of time and put them in a container

shooter and ammo would approach the line seperately

were you ever in the service?

Yes. And I've seen supposedly unloaded firearms eject both dummy and live rounds when presented for inspection. While the inspector was always surprised, sometimes the person presenting the firearm was also surprised. Controlling the world is a bit more difficult than making regulations for others to follow.

[htom]

I noticed in the story from San Antonio that ccmanuals cited the interesting line: "They cited a state statute that forbids cities or counties from regulating shooting ranges established before Sept. 1, 2011, and that prevents local governments from suing ranges without the Legislature's permission."

For the gun fancy: What is so special about a shooting range that unlike other sporting businesses it can't be regulated or sued?

At a guess, already regulated by the state; local communities were attempting to enact regulations that contradicted state regulations.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

.....And how would you arrange for that certainty on a 500- or 1000-yard open air range?

I was at one last week which has the answer - downrange is out to sea - and it's marked on charts.

The site comprises land-based ranges with an area of 20.5km². It has various enclosed tunnel ranges, a 9km shoreline suitable for aircraft landing training sorties, a large sea danger area extending approximately 18km², airspace up to 23,000ft and a high tidal range of up to 8m

[Hwyl]

There are plenty of ranges that contain all bullets http://www.bangorrifleclub.com/ for instance

Bzzt. While recycling used railway tunnels may be a good idea, 100 yards is not what I consider to be rifle-sized, and it's only a start on the "containment problem". Someone who has a negligent discharge in the parking lot will find the security of the tunnel does not constrain their unintended firing. Can you shoot through the backstop? How about shooting the wrong way down the tunnel?

Do you really think they'd be allowed to carry loaded guns in the parking lot. The only reason this range exists is that it is in a tunnel

[Horace]

I was at one last week which has the answer - downrange is out to sea - and it's marked on charts.

The site comprises land-based ranges with an area of 20.5km². It has various enclosed tunnel ranges, a 9km shoreline suitable for aircraft landing training sorties, a large sea danger area extending approximately 18km², airspace up to 23,000ft and a high tidal range of up to 8m

Har har. Pendine Range?

[Horace]

Do you really think they'd be allowed to carry loaded guns in the parking lot. The only reason this range exists is that it is in a tunnel

Firearms kept on site?

[botebum]

I only read the first 80 or so posts on this thread so forgive me if someone else mentioned it but-

I've been shooting since I was a boy and one of the first things I learned about gun safety was that the shooter must always be aware of what's downrange and is responsible for what he hits.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
I shoot in my back field all the time. If someone buys the property behind me and builds a house, can I continue to shoot in that direction without regard for my neighbor's safety just because I've always shot in that direction?

Doug

[Hwyl]

Firearms kept on site?

No, but guns would be definitely transported unloaded. I am not sure what the regulations are, it's owned by a friend of mine and he considered himself lucky to get the permit after Dunblane.

There are not many places in the UK where you can discharge large rounds.

This thread in many ways, if you ignore Philip's stupid siege debating style,is about how blase Americans have become when it comes to gun safety.

[Phillip Allen]

I only read the first 80 or so posts on this thread so forgive me if someone else mentioned it but-

I've been shooting since I was a boy and one of the first things I learned about gun safety was that the shooter must always be aware of what's downrange and is responsible for what he hits.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
I shoot in my back field all the time. If someone buys the property behind me and builds a house, can I continue to shoot in that direction without regard for my neighbor's safety just because I've always shot in that direction?

Doug

it's pretty cut and dried alright... all the usual suspect have shown up and aligned themselves politically. Political coheasion is the only sort of coheasion we seem to understand (which places you and me on opposite sides whether we like it or not )

[Phillip Allen]

No, but guns would be definitely transported unloaded. I am not sure what the regulations are, it's owned by a friend of mine and he considered himself lucky to get the permit after Dunblane.

There are not many places in the UK where you can discharge large rounds.

This thread in many ways, if you ignore Philip's stupid siege debating style,is about how blase Americans have become when it comes to gun safety.

I think blasé probably applies more than I like it to but guns have become a no-no topic... a teacher in school can't even tell his/her class anything about safe gun handling without breaking one of our new, emotionally, hysterically, absolutist laws.

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

Har har. Pendine Range?

Yup

[Flying Orca]

Controlling the world is a bit more difficult than making regulations for others to follow.

Of course it is, but that's insufficient cause to reject regulation.

I can't believe this is still going 'round.

[wardd]

i demand the right to occasionally quite by accident shoot someone and not be held responsible

[Flying Orca]

Well, as long as you're sure it was an accident.

[wardd]

Well, as long as you're sure it was an accident.

i'll make sure it's an accident, can't be too careful