Scituate Rod & Gun Cease Fire

[wardd]

anyone that thinks they bear no responsibility for the fall of their shot should not be allowed to own a firearm

[B_B]

Oh what fun. As a usual suspect my post #60 with its recognition of objective problems a gun club may face must have been in bad faith, as no doubt were my careful sticking to the facts without the promotional invention of reasonse why nothing was the gun club's problem.

Quit it. You're not playing the role you've been assigned. You're to play Michael Moore, Phillip's playing the part played by Charlton Heston.

[TomF]

Cripes.

Let's all take a step back, OK? There's a whole lot of agreement among us all - shall we recognize it?

• Pretty much everybody's agreed that newbies moving into a neighbourhood should deal with the businesses that pre-date them in the neighbourhood - be that gun ranges, hog farms, whatever. Nobody's argued that the range shouldnt' exist, nobody's argued that the homeowners down-range should put the range out of business for "nuisance" stuff like noise, traffic etc.
• Everybody's agreed that safety has to be a primary concern with gun use. It's fundamental in hunter training, it's fundamental in "good citizenship" ways of being a gun owner too.
• Nobody's argued for taking away anybody's guns, or regulating them differently. No, shooting isn't an "essential" in people's lives like air or food, but this isn't some anti-gun blathering thread. There is a potential deep end here, but nobody's jumped off into it.
• I truly think that everyone also agrees that at least optimally, a range's bullets should always stay on the range. And that ranges should be set up so that they do - providing a venue for safe shooting is part of the reason ranges exist, after all.

Where we're disagreeing is on whether the homeowners are responsible to put up with the very occasional bullets travelling in their direction from the range, because the range was there before their houses. Or whether despite being there first, the range is responsible to keep all bullets within bounds so people aren't liable to be injured or killed.

I frankly don't understand why this last bit is even in question - as it wouldn't be for any other business ... or for any new range people wanted to create. But maybe we can focus on that, within the context of where we do agree.

[Ian McColgin]

Phillip, since you refuse to read with understanding, think with clarity, or recognize people who are actually supportive of shooting sports at their honorable and finest, I can't see that taking a turn makes sense.

You have mentioned how easily you go from feeling attacked to defensive to your own attack mode. I'm not quite like that, not attacking and not defending - just trying to get at the issues as we learn the facts.

So take a moment to review the news stories and maybe use google earth to get a notion of the geography. Maybe even learn a bit about how the more progressive ranges have worked on alternative models of how to recapture and/or sequester spent lead. There are many real and troubling issues that the sport must cope with in the different environments where people shoot.

[S.V. Airlie]

"I wonder if the government should ban people from visiting certain Civil War sites due to lead remediation problems... (wardd won't get this one)" [#68]

Nor will anyone since the poster seems unable to distinguish between visiting an historic site and activly worsening a pollution problem.

Ian.. I agree with most of #60. Just one point. I was, as you were, at a boatyard in Maine a few years ago. The yard was going through hoops to sell it without much luck primarily due to toxins in the soil..no takers at that time. I doubt the club was going to open a potential can of worms to put it on the market knowing what could be there..The rest..fine

[ccmanuals]

Philip, as the word gun was in the thread title would you consider yourself one of the "usual suspects" that immediately showed up?

[Phillip Allen]

Philip, as the word gun was in the thread title would you consider yourself one of the "usual suspects" that immediately showed up?

yes

[BrianY]

Oh now you've done it, Tom F. You've tried to introduce reason and rationality into a pissing match between a bunch of four year olds. How dare you?!

Phillip and Jamie: do either of you believe that the gun club has no obligation to take steps to ensure that the members' rounds stay within the confines of the club grounds? Do you seriously believe that since the homes were built after the gun club, the owners should just shut up and tolerate the occasional bullet coming their way?

I hope not, but that's what it sounds like you're all saying.

[Glen Longino]

I can scarcely believe my eyes!
Phillip and Jamie in tandem coming down on the dumb side of a controversy...AGAIN!LMAO!

[wardd]

I can scarcely believe my eyes!
Phillip and Jamie in tandem coming down on the dumb side of a controversy...AGAIN!LMAO!

let's hope it's not infectious like in some bad scify movie

[Phillip Allen]

Oh now you've done it, Tom F. You've tried to introduce reason and rationality into a pissing match between a bunch of four year olds. How dare you?!

Phillip and Jamie: do either of you believe that the gun club has no obligation to take steps to ensure that the members' rounds stay within the confines of the club grounds? Do you seriously believe that since the homes were built after the gun club, the owners should just shut up and tolerate the occasional bullet coming their way?

I hope not, but that's what it sounds like you're all saying.

Brian... is it possible you haven't read ALL of this thread or maybe fogotten something I have previously said?

for instance:

it's a club I think
with that in mind, require all members to sit lectures about the problem of escaping bullets and general safety. club fines for dropping the gun whether it goes off or not. no altered triggers without a pass from the designated club safetry officer... add to this any list of reasonable rules

there are physical ways of directing bullets from the fireing line... a booth per shooter for instance

I don't know the club's problems but would listen to any that are cited... maybe funds could come from the fish and game in trade for it's regular use as a hunter safety classroom...

[Glen Longino]

Do Jamie and Phillip grasp the Fact that the gun club does not own the property Downrange and is not free to drop random bullets into it?
No?
I figgered!
Anywhere bullets land is an act of God according to Phillip and Jamie and only LIBS would say otherwise.
Hey, Jamie, show your famous Laurel and Hardy dancing video!

[S.V. Airlie]

Yes dweeble, I do.Glen, And as usual, the BS from you is just that. Did I say it was an act of God, No. Figures.I'm not gonna bother with you anymore and will take your advice: Don't feed the troll."You are certainly not worth responding to.I feel sorry for the other residents of TX though having you live in the state. I'm only glad for them that TX is a very big state..

[Glen Longino]

"Yes dweeble, I do.Glen, And as usual, the BS from you is just that."

Translation: Although I am an educated man who has formally taught children as a professional teacher, I love to make up words, avoid all rules of grammar and punctuation, and eshew all schools of philosophy, reason, sociology, and etiquette.
Furthermore, I am an elite Colonial American with roots in the keel of the Mayflower, while you, Glen, are a blight upon the people of Texas...Amen!LMAO

[Phillip Allen]

"Yes dweeble, I do.Glen, And as usual, the BS from you is just that."

Translation: Although I am an educated man who has formally taught children as a professional teacher, I love to make up words, avoid all rules of grammar and punctuation, and eshew all schools of philosophy, reason, sociology, and etiquette.
Furthermore, I am an elite Colonial American with roots in the keel of the Mayflower, while you, Glen, are a blight upon the people of Texas...Amen!LMAO

Captain Blight? (I like it

[S.V. Airlie]

If you looked up the word,dweeble, you would see it exists with a definition. You might try doing that before you stick both hooves into that gaping orifice you call a mouth glenny.

[Glen Longino]

General Blight!

[Phillip Allen]

I looked up dweeble
there are several definations but this is the one I personally like:



A dweeble is someone (or animal) who amazes and astounds others with their adorable presence. They have a magnetic personality, are mysterious and do exactly what they want, when they want. Others admire their free spirit.

[Hwyl]

If you looked up the word,dweeble, you would see it exists with a definition. You might try doing that before you stick both hooves into that gaping orifice you call a mouth glenny.

Hmm you're right

A small, platypus-like animal that hangs around inside your pants and forces you to tell you the truth by slowly gnawing on your inner thighs.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dweeble

[Glen Longino]

If you looked up the word,dweeble, you would see it exists with a definition. You might try doing that before you stick both hooves into that gaping orifice you call a mouth glenny.

I've been exceedingly patient with you, Jamie!
I'll tell you this one more time:
Your self-righteous and pompous attitude prompts you to call me all sorts of names other than Glen, my actual name.
The next time you call call me "glenny", "Hardy", "dweeble", or any name other than Glen, I promise to complain to Scot that you are a Rude Hombre who has a bad habit of entitled Rudeness.
I don't want to see you get banned.
I enjoy kicking your sanctimonious butt around here, but if you continue to be rude to me I will click the big black triangle.
Be warned!

[Phillip Allen]

I've been exceedingly patient with you, Jamie!
I'll tell you this one more time:
Your self-righteous and pompous attitude prompts you to call me all sorts of names other than Glen, my actual name.
The next time you call call me "glenny", "Hardy", "dweeble", or any name other than Glen, I promise to complain to Scot that you are a Rude Hombre who has a bad habit of entitled Rudeness.
I don't want to see you get banned.
I enjoy kicking your sanctimonious butt around here, but if you continue to be rude to me I will click the big black triangle.
Be warned!

there's all sorts of rude, Glen, practice what you preach

[JimD]

The firing range should be legally bound to ensure that 100% of rounds fired on its property remain on its property.

[wardd]

I've been exceedingly patient with you, Jamie!
I'll tell you this one more time:
Your self-righteous and pompous attitude prompts you to call me all sorts of names other than Glen, my actual name.
The next time you call call me "glenny", "Hardy", "dweeble", or any name other than Glen, I promise to complain to Scot that you are a Rude Hombre who has a bad habit of entitled Rudeness.
I don't want to see you get banned.
I enjoy kicking your sanctimonious butt around here, but if you continue to be rude to me I will click the big black triangle.
Be warned!

i just think he is senile

[Ian McColgin]

Sorry this thread has been taken so far from an interesting and important issue.

[wardd]

Sorry this thread has been taken so far from an interesting and important issue.

the thread has gone on much longer than needed to answer a simple question

after all is said and done, there is nothing more to say or do but we try valiantly

[Donn]

It's amazing what a few serial posters can do to a thread.

[Phillip Allen]

The firing range should be legally bound to ensure that 100% of rounds fired on its property remain on its property.

it looks like that is what is going to happen

[Glen Longino]

there's all sorts of rude, Glen, practice what you preach

Right back at you, Phillip!

[Phillip Allen]

Right back at you, Phillip!

maybe it takes one to know one... I'll not deny that I can be provoked... the operative word being provoke... ya kain't have any free kicks at me

[Glen Longino]

maybe it takes one to know one... I'll not deny that I can be provoked... the operative word being provoke... ya kain't have any free kicks at me

..."ya kain't have any free kicks at me"

Ha! Hold my beer and watch this!
Nah, I think I know what you mean, and I don't want to kick you.
You and I are more alike than either of us might want to admit!
That's okay by me!

[Phillip Allen]

..."ya kain't have any free kicks at me"

Ha! Hold my beer and watch this!
Nah, I think I know what you mean, and I don't want to kick you.
You and I are more alike than either of us might want to admit!
That's okay by me!

someday I'll get by your area again... we can do a meal
I want to go tour the USS Texas

[bobbys]

Sorry this thread has been taken so far from an interesting and important issue.

..


Hey even i feel your pain.....

[fishrswim]

My club installed 2 x 6 baffles sixteen years ago. If you raise your gun so high that the bullet would hit 2/3 of the way up the berm, the bullet hits several 2x6s. Impacts on the 2x6s require immediate repair and, while not all that expensive, are time-consuming and close down the range, so shooters are quite careful.

There are designs for baffles for many different range geometries. All we needed was a few dozen 4x6s and a gross of 2x6s, a post-hole digger, and a lot of grunt power. These guys in the OP are fools.

This pretty much sums it up. Get safe or go out of business. Both the ranges I frequent have 2X6 or 2X8 baffles.
Quitcherbitchin.

[Gerarddm]

Airlie, you are too funny at times. " negotiate differences between the parties"?!

Ain't nothin' to negotiate, the gun club is in the wrong, period full stop.

Maybe somebody will fire a few stray rounds UPRANGE and see how they like it.

Bah.

[BrianY]

Brian... is it possible you haven't read ALL of this thread or maybe fogotten something I have previously said?

for instance:

Sorry to be so dense, but you tend to write like a politician so it sometimes takes me a while to determine what the core position is behind your statements.

For the sake of this simple -minded solu, can I ask for a simple response to the following questions?

Do you agree that the homeowners have a legit complain and that it is the sole responsibility of the club to ensure
that bullets fired by their members stay within the boundaries of the range?

Do you,like Jamie appears to, believe that the developer acted unreasonably when he built the houses where he did?

[wardd]

I don't know for sure but there is a large possibility that the developers did act irresponsibly or even criminally

is there a possibility that a large rock will destroy the earth within a year?

[Ian McColgin]

"I don't know for sure but there is a large possibility that the developers did act irresponsibly or even criminally" [#136]

Well, the first clause is right. Didn't need the qualifier.

[Reynard38]

what are the ballistics of a hog?

African or European?

[Ian McColgin]

Do you want the calculation according to the Manges or the Pejsa model? And at what altitude, air temp and humidity?

[wardd]

[wardd]

I take it that you believe developers are wholey ethical... ?

you said possibility, there is a possibility for lots of things, but what's the probability

this is not about the developers but about the current residents and an out of control gun club

[S.V. Airlie]

Glen everything you wrote in your post about me, I could say about you, but I don't bother posting my thoughts. No reason, you'd deny it.The only difference is you use smileys with yours and they are useless. It's obvious what the intent is..

[wardd]

Glen everything you wrote in your post about me, I could say about you, but I don't bother posting my thoughts. No reason, you'd deny it.The only difference is you use smileys with yours and they are useless. It's obvious what the intent is..

really?

[S.V. Airlie]

Yup really!

[wardd]

Yup really!

i believe you

[Ian McColgin]

Phillip, do you really think that a gun club has the right to make property they don't own or pay taxes on unusuable and unsafe?

[wardd]

is 'out of control' meant to be provocative...?

are their bullets under control all the time or do they get to just occasionally endanger people?

[wardd]

have you ever caused an accident while driving?

are auto accidents and shooting someone equal?

can you get shooting someone insurance?

[wardd]

I take it by your answer that you have recklessly endangered the lives of others and don't want it mentioned here

driving is a socially accepted risk and highly regulated and registered. shooting someone through willful indifference is not a socially accepted risk

from a practical stand point i wouldn't shoot at a range like that because the liability could be ruinous

[Ian McColgin]

This is getting silly. I know that Phillip would never design or countenance a range where you used targets that cause potentially deadly ricochets three quarters of a mile or more off range, or even a foot off range, or a range designed without adequate backstop and traps. I can imagine Phillip being less conservation minded about the groundwater pollution and hazardous waste problems of a shooting range, but I just cannot fathom what appears here as a spirited defense of arrogant incompetence regarding firearms safety.