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Thread: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

  1. #1
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    Default Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    This is probably a familiar tale but I feel like getting it off my chest. I just turned 49. I’ve always tinkered. Just couldn’t help myself. I got a lot of support from my stepfather, a fantastic man and a legendary tinkerer in his own right. He essentially had a hardware store in his garage and as a kid it was a fantastic wonderland that I’ve essentially tried to recreate on a smaller scale in my adulthood. My strengths though have always leaned towards the mechanical (as opposed to carpentry) but I’ve put a put hammer to nail my fair share. I appreciate technology but I LOVE craftsmanship. My profession is in CAD. I’m a second generation draftsmen (now in civil engineering). My main passion for the last 20 years has been classic motorcycle riding and restoration. I’m a lunatic for old road going 2 stroke street bikes. I’m not intimidated by a big projects and I think I have a fair amount of patience.

    Another familiar tale I’m sure is that I’ve always had the boat dream but like many folks life, circumstances, children, finances, geography etc have always interfered. Living in Florida for thirty years now, I’ve had my share of plastic runabouts but they were tools for family fun days and fishing. No real romance but no regrets either. Good tools for good times. I needed a tool and not a project. Besides I had the bikes for that. But the boat dream has always nagged at me. Tasked me. Trips to Mt Dora classic boat shows over the years and Wooden Boat Magazine (especially launchings) have kept the lust burning. My friends always laugh that I know more about wooden boats than any non wooden boat owner ever should. When my thoughts are idle, I often start to just build them in my mind. I’m sure that I’m not alone. I’ve been lurking here for months now and read countless threads. I know there are probably many builders (and potential builders) who on here with similar backgrounds.
    About 15 years or so back, I was well on my way to building a George Buehler Juno from the free plans in his legendary “Backyard” book (now very dog eared). Like many folks, he hit the right note with me. I wanted something “shippy” but a flawless teak classic was less important than getting “out there”. At the time I had a great space available, I had the plans all drafted up in 3d (still have the file somewhere) and I had plotted out full sized frame patterns. I was setting aside the some money and I had a roadmap. Then the cliché hit. I met my wife Had a daughter, bought a house and hit the pause button on the boat. So for 15 years it was all motorcycles. They worked out better for the 2 car garage and were more manageable as a hobby so I went that route. No regrets. I still ride and build and always will as long as the flesh and mind are willing. But for all the usual reasons, the boat is back in my psyche.

    So once again I’m going to devote some real energy towards.. towards….well… at this point… I’m not entirely positive.
    I’m struggling with the demons of self deception. Like many folks I have “that vision thing”. A beautiful schooner sailing the emerald waters of the Bahamas at sunrise etc etc. It’s a great image but honestly there is no way because:
    A) I don’t think I’m a sailor at heart. I love the romance but I’m not crazy about all the work involved on the water with sheets and rigging. I’ve tried and and when conditions are perfect it sublime. But how often does that happen.
    B) The truth of my life is that I’m probably going to be motoring out of Jacksonville Beach Florida and heading north to Fernandina and south to St Augustine or west up the St John’s River for some overnighters and maybe some beach camping. So the blue water passages and the expense of those boats don’t interest me like they did when I was 15 or 20 years younger.

    So my plan is to build 2 boats. The fist is going to be a simple strip plank canoe. I can use the garage, I can get some splinters and test my resolve. It’s a boat I can use to paddle the shallow ICW creeks around here and maybe use to chase some redfish. If that “does it” for me then so it goes. But, if all that goes well, I’m going to eventually go with a second “real” boat. This one has me stumped.

    My criteria nowdays (as opposed to the time when a Buehler "shippy" and slow sailboat would have sufficed) leans towards... Simple power (preferably outboard), just a bit of speed, a small cabin I can sleep in. Beachable along the sands of the ICW. .A touch of classic looks. Realistically Trailerable by an average full sized pickup. Straightforward construction (plywood on frame or cold molded I think). Also, I believe I have enough room in the yard to throw up some cover and get about 30’ of space under cover.

    I’ve not seen (m)any photo’s of the completed boat but I keep coming back to The Parker Marine Commuter 27. For now at least, it feels like the right boat but I’m not sure what else is out there in this class?

    Well anyway, I’ll shut up now. Thanks for the chance to vent. For now back to listening I think.

    Any thoughts, observations, suggestions, even insults (or boat plans I should consider) are all very much appreciated.
    Fear is Temporary. Regret is Forever.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Good plan building a canoe first. A lot of boat building is drudgery, building one frame is fun, the second maybe interesting, now you need eight more, etc. Not to mention sanding... The canoe will help you decide if you have the sticktoitiveness to go the distance.

    A 28 foot boat could be one to two years full time work, depending on you skill and need for perfection. Also maybe 25 to 40k dollars depending on hardware, electronics, power.

    I realize you didn't ask how hard is it to build a boat. You will find similar and a bit smaller boats to Parker's Commuter 28 from a Jaques Mertins, Tom Lathrop, maybe the Atkins and a designer in Seattle whose name escapes me right now.

    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Steve,

    The link below is to Duckworks Magazine's index of Trailerable Cruisers.

    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/p...orcruisers.htm

    In terms of your situation - you don't say if you will be doing all this boating solo... or with your wife... or????

    If it's just your or even two of you... you can get by with a smaller boat than 27'. When it comes to trailering - the lighter the better, and the shorter the better.... though one can certainly trailer a 27 footer like Parker's.

    You might look as small as the 'Redwing18' (or 21', or 23') or 'Kayleigh18'. Another thought is the Atkin 'Little Hughey20'. Sam Devlin does some intersting boats that'd likely be up your alley - like the 'Dunlin22', 'SurfScoter22', or 'Chinook21'.

    Thinking about the possibilities is a lot of fun. Enjoy!
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Floridasteve, welcome to the Forum. I can relate to your entire story, since I am a tinkerer as well. I have BlueJacket 28 designed by fellow forum member Tom Lathrop from Oriental, NC. www.bluejacketboats.com. I had the hull built and finished and fitted her out for coastal/canal/bay cruising. She lives on a trailer at home, is very comfortable for two for extended cruising and picks up her skirts and flies with a 70 hp Yamaha. We are about to start our second season with her and plan to use her as our "second home" in our retirement years someday. Rick

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Steve,
    I think that you have presented a very honest and reasonable discussion of your situation and ambition. You have also received great advice in the replies. Can't add too much to that. I agree that smaller is better. I had a 27' boat and, for me, the storage and maintenance were too much. If you can tow it without a special vehicle and keep it indoors to minimize and facilitate maintenance, it will be less of a chore; also much cheaper and simler to build. Family comes first, but it may be time to pursue your dream now. Good luck.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Steve- Tom Lathrop's previously mentioned Bluejackets are pretty tough to beat when it comes to your design criteria. The only input I have is that I think you should find a design you really LOVE. The hard truth is that it is conceivable you would spend more time building a boat of this size than actually sailing it- especially if it's to be a weekend getaway boat. I think if you love it and want to be a part of it in a fundamental way- the author of its creation as it were- then all that work is as much the goal as getting her in the water and using her. That time isn't wasted because you are creating something and that was the point in the first place. Furthermore, good to find a building technique that appeals to you as you are going to spend a great deal of time doing that. It might not be good to get deep into a large stitch and glue build only to find you don't like working with epoxy. Reading build threads here will reveal an awful lot of builders who loved what they were doing over the entire course of their boat's creation.
    "A man builds the best of himself into a boat- builds many of the memories of his ancestors." -Steinbeck

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Well it's good to hear it from folks who've been there that I'm on a good track. And thanks for the links and suggestions.

    I remember looking at the Devlin boats years back but hadn't considered them lately. David G, I think you've convinced me. There's apparently plenty of choices at 22 feet (instead of 28 or 30) that can get me where I want to go. . The Surf Scooter 22 stopped me cold at the keyboard. What a looker! And an enclosed outboard option too. A nice quiet 4 stroke, a light canopy, a sunny day and a cold drink. A sandy beach by Little Talbot Island. Might even take the dog and leave the wife! I'm just getting re-started and such but that may be just about perfect. And come to think of it I'm pretty sure I've got his book somewhere put away.

    Time to go digging out all the old materials. The nice thing about the old research material for a lot of this is that it's sort of timeless. I even have an old balsa model somewhere I built of the Juno hull. Nothing great but it showed me the long narrowness of the design. Still at my parents house I think. Time to pay mom a visit. Starting back in to this my first thought was an Abaco skiff but it's a bit too open for where I want to go. It always had my eye though. Ah well... no rush.

    I do have to say this is a lot more fun with high speed internet. Back then it was mostly Barnes & Nobel and a comfy chair! Oh the possibilities! anyway, time to get out the canoe plans and go hunting for some decent sources of cedar... or see what else is out there locally. Clean up the table saw way and recruit a volunteer!

    Thanks again gents! I'll be hanging around.
    Fear is Temporary. Regret is Forever.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    49!!
    You don't have time to muck about building a canoe, get cracking on the vessel!!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    @ potomac I was typing when your post was put up but I wanted to respond to what you wrote. Very good advice. With old motorcycles, I've always enjoyed the process at least as much as the finished project but more so on the ones that caught my heart. On a so-so bike it would be easy to slow down but if it really has me the next thing I know it's 2 am on a Tuesday and I'm totally lost in the project. My stepfather taught me that I think. So your point about getting stuck on the wrong type of build over a multi-year project is well taken and could just lead to a miserable pile of wood and glass rotting in the shed. Lots of smaller pieces or big sheets of plywood and glasscloth. Food for thought.

    Oh and I just noticed that I originally signed up for the board back in 2002 and I have all f 3 posts! I guess I AM a lurker! LOL.
    Fear is Temporary. Regret is Forever.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    49!!
    You don't have time to muck about building a canoe, get cracking on the vessel!!
    Oh I think I'm in decent enough shape for 49. In my mind I still think I'm still 25. And besides the canoe is also a promise to my 10 year old daughter who wants to go exploring. Can't break that one.
    Fear is Temporary. Regret is Forever.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Steve,

    Potomac offers some good advice and you are right to enjoy this part of the process with as few preset conditions as possible that still satisfy your main goals. I'm posting building blogs of four current builders of different Bluejacket power cruisers. These may help you to decide if this is a building method that you can enjoy. Some just don't like epoxy and others embrace it's great qualities as a boatbuilding material. That it allows use of the stitch and glue method, resulting in a long lived and high performing boat is another plus.


    Bluejacket Builder’s blogs

    BJ25.5
    Dave Hargett, Lago Vista, TX (Winter)
    Annapolis, MD (Summer)
    anndavecats@gmail.com
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/35374423@N08/

    BJ27
    EdwardFredholm….Austin, TX
    engeaf@sbcglobal.net
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ed_boat/

    BJ271
    Jim keenan….….Taunton, MA
    James.Keenan@comcast.net
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150284696947578.387232.325557887577&type= 1

    BJ28
    Henry Hassell….…Amelia Courthouse, VA
    hhassell@tds.net
    www.flickr.com/photos/bluejacket28/


    edited: correcting the last link to Henry's blog
    Last edited by Tom Lathrop; 04-21-2012 at 01:31 PM.
    Tom L

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Tom, thanks for posting the blog addresses. When I'm sick of sanding I like to look at other people sanding. (sick, I know!)
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdenny View Post
    Tom, thanks for posting the blog addresses. When I'm sick of sanding I like to look at other people sanding. (sick, I know!)
    Hi Denny, When I look at the work some of these guys are turning out, it makes me want to get out the sandpaper and paint and work on refurbishing "LIZ" so she shines like new, instead of 12 years old. Luckily, Liz hands me a drink and I find a chair in the shade and the moment passes.

    I'm not building a boat now and it does seem like something is missing from life. I will satisfy myself by watching you and Mike work on your boats between my naps.
    Tom L

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Tom I can't hank you enough for those links. I'm actually one of those strange people who really doesn't mind epoxy and sanding work. Like most things it's a matter of patience, desire and spending on the right tools.

    At some point I got tired of paying other people to paint my bikes for me so I picked it up. Painting cars and bikes is actually sort of a lie. What "painting" really consists of is hours and hours of of prep work like blasting, rustproofing, filling and sanding checking and repeating and repeating an then at some point when you're satisfied you apply a pigment, some decals decals and FINALLY the clear coat... which you then have to spend hours nd hours wet sanding and polishing smooth until you're satisfied...

    I never really dreaded it. Now on the scale of a 22 foot boat in a hot shed? Give me a while and I'll get back to you on that one.

    But seriously, thanks again for those. Cracking open the books again this week my intuition has me leaning toward techniques involving lots of assembled smaller more affordable pieces of wood as (like strip and cold molding) made stronger through chemistry as opposed to handling very large sheets of ply and/or exotic timbers. That and I've had a little bit of experience (and been very impressed) with modern epoxies and I really like the idea of heavily saturated epoxy/wood structures. It seems that when properly done it stands a great chance against the forces of nature and operator stupidity aligned against them.

    For now I am enjoying the thought process. Saturday and I'm off to the office to draft up some molds for my canoe. baby steps..
    Fear is Temporary. Regret is Forever.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Tom and Floridasteve... That last address is

    www.flickr.com/photos/bluejacket28/

    Take a look at Tom's Bluejackets as he has a 24, 25.5, two 27 s and the 28 .. Good plans and the wife and I are enjoying the process.. Went to a plastic boat show yesterday over by the Annapolis MD Bay bridge and poked around for ideas and found lots of information.. It all works on that bucket of dreams.. I did the strip canoe for the epoxy knowledge first and have been on my build for about six months now..

    What ever is the final answer ..... Just ENJOY! and include the family..

    Henry

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Looking for ideas in the Commuter 27 range (and sorry but a bit of a ramble)...

    Henry, Thanks for the correction. Don't have any idea how that error crept in but am sure it was a nasty little gremlin. Windows 7 is driving me batty with all the changes from Windows XP which seems much more intuitive to me.
    Tom L

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