Sculling oar for folkboat?

[mtapia]

Hi everybody, first time posting in the forum hope this is the right section for a question like this. Do you think it would be possible to use a sculling oar to propel a wooden folkboat (which I believe is around 2 tons)? And if that's the case, which kind of oar, shape, dimensions, etc?

Thanks!

[wizbang 13]

Yes, Of course it is possible.
the devil is in the details. How far and how fast and what wind and sea and current conditions? Pumping in and out of harbor is realistic. Pumping(sculling) into crap for more than half an hour is not. Taking the place of an OB is not.
A regular , slightly springy oar. It's length is based on height of the bracket above water.
Now we get into, which side of boat for the bracket, what type of bracket, yuloh or scull, and "other" things.( how much Sam Adams does sculling a two ton boat burn?)

[Peerie Maa]

See if you can find an ash ships lifeboat oar. Long and robust.

[the_gr8t_waldo]

what's your location? i've never used one but understand that if the shaft has a sight bend to it, it'll wirk great- trouble is that i've forgot in what axis the bend should be, but i'm sure someone else will post that.

[Ian McColgin]

Concave side down and curve normal to blade. The curve allows a more vertical entry. Despite the efficiency of a yalu, I'd go for a straight oar that can work as a sweep or as a sculling oar. The boat is long keeled enough that once moving you can work a sweep from one side with only a little rudder offset. The sculling option might be handy for getting in and out of narrow places.

G'luck

[Brian Palmer]

I tried rowing our 20 ft Elver canoe yawl (about 1500 lbs loaded) with a 12 foot sweep and also sculling with the sweep. The sweep worked a lot better as a sweep than as a sculling oar for going any kind of distance in an open area. I think I pulled the boat about a mile on a few occassions without too much trouble, but it was work, for sure.

However, sculling was a lot better maneuvering around the boat ramp and in other tight places. A dedicated purpose built sculling oard would have probably been a lot better.

Brian

[wizbang 13]

yes, a curve downward makes it easier on your wrists. I have a curved handle on my big boat(12 ton) scull.curve on the blade or handle does the same thing. i do not bother with the curve on my lil boats.storage is a pita with the curve too.
A yuloh is better for distance. easier on your back.
scull is best for tight maneuveuring. hard on your wrists and back.

[mtapia]

Great information! Thanks to everybody for the replies. Investigating about the yuloh I found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiiayanuSpM it seems to work quite well. I'm located in the sf bay area, south bay to be more specific, we have a bit of current but the intended use for the oar is mainly to move in and out of harbor, so I will give it a try. There's anybody making these oars or basically you have to make one by yourself? Another interesting thing I found is a wooden boat article "how to scull" where they mention the possibility of sculling without any kind of notch, any experience with that?

Thanks again!

[Ben Fuller]

Dig up a copy of Roger Taylor's Elements of Seamanship. He used a 12 foot oar for sweep and sculling on his 2 ton schooner. He also has the drawing for his 10 foot yuloh that he used on his 32 foot 5 ton Herrshoff in a calm. If you can find Sam Manning's article in WoodenBoat there are drawings for a number of sculling oar options along with some instructions. That article started as an article he and I did for Small Boat Journal which is wafting out there in cyberspace somewhere.

An oar that is optimized for sculling has some real differences from a sweep oar. It is blade heavy and the shaft is slimmed so that its max dimension is in the same plane as the blade. It is flat on bottom and curved on top and has a blade that is relatively much bigger than the one that you normally see: my favorite sculling oar has a 4 foot blade on a 10 foot shaft. If you use a conventional oar you can mount a oarlock socket on your transome and get a large 1 1/2 or 2 oarlock to run it. On the Folkboat I would be tempted to mount a socket on both sides. Facing forward you can use your forward hand to set the blade angle and your body weight to push the oar forth and back.

The advantage of the yuloh is that all you need to do is push it forth and back, the pitch is taken care of automatically by the rope which also balances the blade weight. Your wrist and forearm likes this alot.

Have fun.

[wizbang 13]

[mtapia]

Thanks again for all the ideas! To everybody, this is great help. When I get something concrete I will post some pictures.

[Durnik]

Dig up a copy of Roger Taylor's Elements of Seamanship. He used a 12 foot oar for sweep and sculling on his 2 ton schooner. He also has the drawing for his 10 foot yuloh that he used on his 32 foot 5 ton Herrshoff in a calm. If you can find Sam Manning's article in WoodenBoat there are drawings for a number of sculling oar options along with some instructions. That article started as an article he and I did for Small Boat Journal which is wafting out there in cyberspace somewhere.

An oar that is optimized for sculling has some real differences from a sweep oar. It is blade heavy and the shaft is slimmed so that its max dimension is in the same plane as the blade. It is flat on bottom and curved on top and has a blade that is relatively much bigger than the one that you normally see: my favorite sculling oar has a 4 foot blade on a 10 foot shaft. If you use a conventional oar you can mount a oarlock socket on your transome and get a large 1 1/2 or 2 oarlock to run it. On the Folkboat I would be tempted to mount a socket on both sides. Facing forward you can use your forward hand to set the blade angle and your body weight to push the oar forth and back.

The advantage of the yuloh is that all you need to do is push it forth and back, the pitch is taken care of automatically by the rope which also balances the blade weight. Your wrist and forearm likes this alot.

Have fun.

You inspired me to test my google-fu.. The alignment of the planets, stars (& the leonids this morning) must be right. First page, first two hits, I got these!

A Lesson in One-Oarsmanship: Part I
and
Part II: Putting Your Best Oar Behind You

I trust these are to which you refer? Either way, I am appreciative.

Many thanks to you (& Sam), both for the original article.. & the nudge.

enjoy
bobby

[Nicholas Scheuer]

A curve in a sculling oar will in fact make it behave more like a Yuloh. I'm agreeing with everything Ian posted, but he neglected the association of "curve" with a Yuloh.

I used to scull a 21-ft Dovekie (900-lbs, provisioned and equipped for a cruise) quite frequently, and not just across an anchorage. I tried sculling my 28-ft 3000-lb Shearwater, though the Ash Oar I bought at Hamilton's was too flexible in the shaft. Like someone posted above, use a "stout" oar.

As for sculling a 2-ton full-keel sailboat? No prob, though I wouldn't want to scull a very long distance. It's all about momentum, it may take awhile to get up to speed, but once there, it'doesn't take nearly so much effort to keep her going, unless headwind or waves are involved.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

My Ash Shaw & Tenneys used to hang from bungee at the grip and blade tip under the overhead in the saloon and would acquire a bend over time. If so, I'd position the bent oar in my favor (like a yuloh) wen sculling. These bands were not permanent; wnen noticed, I'd stow the oar other-side-down so it would bend back straight.

[johngsandusky]

Never sculled. But I have rowed keelboats with one oar, first a 20' one ton and then a 26' four ton yawl. I sailed those two boats without engines year round for more than ten years. As noted above, you can't fight wind or current. When there's wind you'll have to sail. But if you're content with speeds under a knot you can certainly row a mile or so.

[Ben Fuller]

Durnik, you did find the article. I recall that my favorite sculling oar spent a winter hanging with a cinderblock in the middle. Bent it nicely. I think some folks needing yulohs make them so that they come apart with a few bolt. To see a bunch of them, somw quite long ( 7 people working them) find a copy of G.R. Worcester's Junks and Sampans of the Yangtzee(sp).

[Bill Perkins]

Here's an interesting piece of hardware from Duckworks ;if you can't get the Japanese piece mentioned in the article .Also Mcnaughton sells a yaloh pattern you might be interested in. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/gear/scullmatix/index.htm

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Interesting piece of hardware, Bill! However, after some practice the first year in our Dovekie, I never found one-handed sculling over a course of a couple of miles difficult at all.

I still scull our Eastport Pram, the dinghy we tow with our larger boats. The simplicity of a plain, straight oar is so elegant.

One additional point; for optimum efficiency, a sculling oar should have the edges of the blade rounded (half-oval is bettr than pure radii) instead of continuing with the squarish edges many oars are made with these days. My Shaw & Tenneys were made with rounded edges, but of course they are a premium product.

[the_gr8t_waldo]

from the fwiw dept. a number of years ago i made an 14foot oar with sculling in mind. it's d.f. and the 57"l x5.5 X 1.75 thick (sorta diamond shape in cross section) the blade appears to me, has pleanty of meat left for reshaping. plans changed , i sold the boat but still have the oar. anyone who is within pick up distance AND is intrested in it, please email- free of course! the scotch side of me simply hates the idea of sawing it up to fit my trash can. if this is not in keeping with the hosts intended use of the forum, please feel free to kill this

[Jay Greer]

"Red Witch" displaces ten thousand pounds. We have no engine and have never seen a need for one. Quite frankly, when I board a powered boat, for some unexplicable reason, the engine refuses to run! I have a fourteen foor sweep that can be easily rigged off of the stb. quarter. I scull standing up facing fwd. After a few strokes which produces a bit of cavitaion we get settled down and the boat moves quite easily by just leaning on the oar and feathering on the returnstroke. I have sculled the Witch more than ten miles when becalmed. No big thing. It is easy to do.
Jay

[wizbang 13]

"Red Witch" displaces ten thousand pounds. We have no engine and have never seen a need for one. Quite frankly, when I board a powered boat, for some unexplicable reason, the engine refuses to run! I have a fourteen foor sweep that can be easily rigged off of the stb. quarter. I scull standing up facing fwd. After a few strokes which produces a bit of cavitaion we get settled down and the boat moves quite easily by just leaning on the oar and feathering on the returnstroke. I have sculled the Witch more than ten miles when becalmed. No big thing. It is easy to do.
Jay

Jay, You had to be going with a current. 10 miles would be 5 or 8 hours of pumping.

[Jay Greer]

That is correct. Two of us traded off sculling for some six hours comming back from Catalina Isl in a dead calm. The stars were out and it was no worse than an easy hike. The point is that when set up right sculling is not a big hassel. Larry Pardey uses a yalu that he works athwartships rather than leaning on the oar along the centerline of the hull. Larry is used to his system and it works fine for him. I am happy with mine as well. We had some dinner and a couple of glasses of wine during that trip. We also enjoyed seeing fireworks off of Laguna Beach. By the time we made the entrance of Newport Harbor the wind came up and we sailed the last three miles home. It was a nice trip.
Jay