Making a keel from two pieces of timber?

[john mac]

Hey everyone, the only hardwood importer near me only stocks timber up to 16 ft, problem is i'm building a 22 ft boat, I know generally a one piece keel is much stronger but thats not an option in my case, so i'm looking for an alternative. i did some research on the net and seen examples of chines, stringers and sheer clamps being made from smaller lengths butt jointed/scarfed together to get the right length, but not a keel, can it be done and if so how?

[Gib Etheridge]

You'll get more help if you tell folks what boat your thinking of, keel specs., where you are and what species are available. A shot of the plans helps a lot.

[andrewpatrol]

are you sure the keel is the same length as the boat?

[john mac]

are you sure the keel is the same length as the boat?

hey there, the keel is 18' long, i was thinking of making it out of half inch by 5 inch by 6' lengths, staggered, building it up to the 3"x5"x18' required? cheers

[john mac]

i'm also going to laminate a new stem knee, the old knee was 3"x3" solid piece of pitch pine, could i laminate a new knee using 3"x1/2" oak planks?

[Mrleft8]

You could, but why would you want to?

[john mac]

You could, but why would you want to?

Making one out of laminated and bent 1/2" planks would be much easier than trying to find a foot wide lump!

[Mrleft8]

I forget..... You live in the land of compressed peat...... There must be saw mills somewhere in Ireland.....

[john mac]

I forget..... You live in the land of compressed peat...... There must be saw mills somewhere in Ireland.....

Nope, every tree, bush, blade of grass is protected! all hardwood is imported so costs a fortune, the only importer in the whole damn place has maximum lengths of 16' and they are $170 per length! So my options are laminate a keel or nip out some night with the chainsaw and hope nobody notices me dragging an oak tree behind the car!

[Gib Etheridge]

I wouldn't hesitate to laminate the keel and knee out of 1/2", but I would use fir or mahogany.

[Bob Cleek]

What sort of boat are you building? I've heard tell there's some Douglas fir (Oregon pine) plantation stock in the north of Ireland (not sure if it's in Northern Ireland or just "north" of Cork.) Maybe that's a possibility.

[john mac]

I havn't heard of Douglas fir for sale around here, so it must be snapped up in contracts before its even cut. has anyone more images of a laminated keel in construction?

[Sayla]

hey there, the keel is 18' long, i was thinking of making it out of half inch by 5 inch by 6' lengths, staggered, building it up to the 3"x5"x18' required? cheers

Sounds fine, but glued with what? - and will it be encapsulated - will it ever get moist / wet? - the choice of woods changes
Fully encapsulated (epoxy & sheathed) - most well gluing low movement timbers
Not encapsulated - must be resorcinol, and selected low movement high durability timber
Personally I prefer high durability anywhere, but well known boat builders are using lower durability woods where they are well encapsulated

I havn't heard of Douglas fir for sale around here, so it must be snapped up in contracts before its even cut. has anyone more images of a laminated keel in construction?

What timbers do you have around there?







Laminated keels are quite common

sayla

[john mac]

Hey sayla, the boat is plywood over oak 22' cabin cruiser, the hull will be sheathed in fiberglass on the outside and i'll probably glass the inside around the bilge. I have a lump of mahogany 10"x3"x10' which I was going to cut into two lengths 5"x3"x10' then have these cut into six planks of 5"x1"x10' when laminated together with staggered joints that would give me a final piece of 5"x3"x20', if this is a suitable way to do it, i leave the planks in my boiler house for a week to get them good and dry?

[Sayla]

Hey sayla, the boat is plywood over oak 22' cabin cruiser, the hull will be sheathed in fiberglass on the outside and i'll probably glass the inside around the bilge. I have a lump of mahogany 10"x3"x10' which I was going to cut into two lengths 5"x3"x10' then have these cut into six planks of 5"x1"x10' when laminated together with staggered joints that would give me a final piece of 5"x3"x20', if this is a suitable way to do it, i leave the planks in my boiler house for a week to get them good and dry?

Mahogany sounds fine, and epoxy sounds fine (and in the weave), for the job as: it will be encapsulated; mahogany glues well with it;

- but you could lose up to 1/2" with the cutting (more if dressing) - with epoxy (gap filling) you could get away with sawn-only faces and hence lose less material, but how will you be sawing it?

sayla

[john mac]

I've just found a sawmill that has air dried oak and fir for sale up to 8m lengths, i've asked them to check what type of fir it is and if suitable for boat building, if its good stuff (plenty of rings per inch) then i should be able to make the keel, chines, sheers etc out of this and save the mahogany for other parts of the boat. How does this sound? cheers guys.

[Sayla]

I've just found a sawmill that has air dried oak and fir for sale up to 8m lengths, i've asked them to check what type of fir it is and if suitable for boat building, if its good stuff (plenty of rings per inch) then i should be able to make the keel, chines, sheers etc out of this and save the mahogany for other parts of the boat. How does this sound? cheers guys.

It is a shame to cover mahogany - do a search check on "oak + epoxy" - and understand the gluing thing in regard to oak

sayla

[john mac]

hey sayla, did a quick check there, seems the verdict is still out on oak and epoxy, some say its fine, some say it a bad idea. I'd rather not take the gamble and have the joints splitting a year from now. There seems to be solutions like wiping down the wood with acetone and heating the timbers up so they absorb the epoxy deeper into their grain, but it seems a bit too complicated to get right for a first timer like me. Also by the sounds of things the joints need to be perfectly tight, with no gaps. Again being a first timer, I don't know if my joinery skill would be good enough. Are there any other glues out there that are good to use with oak, fir, and plywood and are more forgiving to an amateur like me? My local builders merchant stocks PU and Cascamite?

[Sayla]

hey sayla, did a quick check there, seems the verdict is still out on oak and epoxy, some say its fine, some say it a bad idea. I'd rather not take the gamble and have the joints splitting a year from now. There seems to be solutions like wiping down the wood with acetone and heating the timbers up so they absorb the epoxy deeper into their grain, but it seems a bit too complicated to get right for a first timer like me. Also by the sounds of things the joints need to be perfectly tight, with no gaps. Again being a first timer, I don't know if my joinery skill would be good enough. Are there any other glues out there that are good to use with oak, fir, and plywood and are more forgiving to an amateur like me? My local builders merchant stocks PU and Cascamite?

Fir (Douglas) is great with epoxy, as is plywood - it's generally only the oily timbers like oak, and teak - I'd just avoid those timbers - epoxy is more forgiving with joints than most other glues, and is probably your best bet for glue.

sayla