How much checking is too much checking?

**DoctorB** · 04-16-2012, 09:18 AM

Hi Everybody.
I'm starting a build of a 16' skiff. Everything is going well so far, but I am concerned about some WO I recently purchased (plain sawn, air seasoned from a reputable mill/boat supplier - currently at approx 14-16% MC). In retrospect, I may have been too concerned about knots, and didn't place much importance on what I thought were small surface checks. As I mill the wood, the checks seem worse than I thought. I have read as many posts as I could find on the subject (avoiding end checking w/ anchorseal during drying, red lead, white lead, filling with 5200 after red lead, praying), but my question comes down to, should I use the checked wood, or not? What is common practice? I am painting, and am not hung up on the cosmetics - I just want to make sure I'm not compromising mechanical integrity or asking for trouble. (Perhaps I'm answering my own question)
I understand WO is particularly susceptible to checking, but being new to the process, I have no calibration for what is normal or acceptable.
Use is for a 3" thick stem (that piece is actually okay), and a 5/4 transom (I was going to layup 3, 8" wide pieces, but can only get much narrower check-free pieces near the edges - i.e. q-grain areas).
I have pictures, but don't want to bog down the group. I can create a flikr account if that would be helpful.
Thanks so much. My progress would be way slower had it not been for the awesome conversations at this site. As a teacher and engineer, I totally appreciate the knowledge sharing that takes place here.

**David G** · 04-16-2012, 09:21 AM

Need fotos... or a far more detailed description of the checking. Fotos are far better.

**Bob Smalser** · 04-16-2012, 09:31 AM

Sawn oak generally checks because it is drying too fast, but it is also subject to more-serious wind shakes, reaction wood and misuse of pith wood. Whether your problem is structural or merely cosmetic depends on the location and depth of the checks, which can't be evaluated without pics.

Either way your boat will be best served by slowing down the drying of that oak. That's why for traditional boats I prefer building outdoors under a tent on gravel, using wood stacked and stickered in the same conditions.

**DoctorB** · 04-16-2012, 10:47 AM

**Ron Williamson** · 04-16-2012, 11:35 AM

Pity.
It looks like that lumber was the top layer of an uncovered pile.
The weathering hides the checks.
R

**DoctorB** · 04-16-2012, 09:58 PM

usable? or shall I speak with the supplier?

**David G** · 04-16-2012, 10:05 PM

Any fotos of the end of the stick? It's not looking good, but not definitive yet.

**Bob Smalser** · 04-16-2012, 10:07 PM

I don't see anything serious. Remove the stickers in the stack to slow down the airflow.

**DoctorB** · 04-16-2012, 11:51 PM

So, David, you don't sound too enthusiastic, and Bob, you don't seem too concerned. I inquired with the supplier and will wait their input.
The ends are painted. I'll make some fresh cuts on some ends, photograph tomorrow evening, then reseal with Anchorseal. You can see part of one end in the upper section of
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4509.jpg
While I'm at it, is there any value in cutting away the bark and sapwood, and perhaps planing it down closer to final thickness.
I'll slow the drying, as Bob suggests, though I thought at 11%-14% MC (I just measured a few samples), it's essentially at equilibrium with environment: 63F, 75RH.
I just picked up a copy of Hoadley's, Understanding Wood. What a great book!
Thanks.

**Ron Williamson** · 04-17-2012, 05:16 AM

By the look of the first photos, and your moisture readings,I'd say that it's as dry as it gets, unless you put it in a heated space.
Weathering like that is from a year or two outside,and I'd guess that it isn't doing much checking now,unless the existing checks are re-opening as the surface dries out.
IMHO,there isn't really much point painting the rough ends at this stage.The end checks are already there.
What do the back sides of those first boards look like?
I'd plane a piece to final thickness to see what I had.
If the look doesn't bother you,small surface checks,besides being hard to paint,are pretty harmless.
R

**Mrleft8** · 04-17-2012, 06:46 AM

Certainly cutting the sapwood off is a good idea. 11%-14%EMC is about right for this part of the country, especially after the year we had last year (Very wet). I'd hold off on planing to final thickness until you're about to use the pieces, but getting it close wouldn't hurt.... Just remember that it's not going to be a piano. I found that my furniture maker's mind kept telling me things that just weren't relevant in a boat building world.

**David G** · 04-17-2012, 09:26 AM

I've seen board that looked like yours that cleaned up fine with planing. I've also seen the same look, and had those checks go through and through. And end-grain look on a fresh cut end will tell more. I agree that the likeliest scenario is that they are simply surface checks. Even if they don't disappear completely with planing, you could fill what's left before sanding. OTOH... if you paid good money for that stick, from a reputable supplier, I'd be inclined to quit guessing and messing, and simply have them swap it for a sound stick.

**Mrleft8** · 04-17-2012, 09:48 AM

Filling the cracks may be a bad idea. If the cracks are going to swell up, they'll be fine the way they are. If they're not going to swell up, you'll find out, and you can fill them then. Filling them, and then having the filler cause further cracking would be a shame.

**David G** · 04-17-2012, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Mrleft8

Filling the cracks may be a bad idea. If the cracks are going to swell up, they'll be fine the way they are. If they're not going to swell up, you'll find out, and you can fill them then. Filling them, and then having the filler cause further cracking would be a shame.

Depends on what you fill them with. For this application, I'd use beeswax and rosin... a little lighter on the rosin than normal. But... we're back to guessing an messing.

**Lew Barrett** · 04-17-2012, 02:27 PM

For the record.......

**DoctorB** · 04-17-2012, 02:39 PM

Ok - I milled down one piece that looked better than some. It was just shy of 8/4, and I took it down to 6/4. When I'm ready to layup with other pieces, I'll take down to its final 5/4 dimension for the transom. The final width of the piece in the last photos is approx 8" or so (I only finished one edge). I'm inclined to quit crying - the piece still has checks, for sure, so I'd like to hear people's opinions, but I'm reading from the group this is nothing to really complain about (Its a boat not a piano - I like that).
So....
Is the finished piece typical for boats? ...as opposed to furniture? Is it realistic to expect better?
Do the pictures settle things for people, or is the wood's use still iffy (to David's comment about guessing and messing)?

Photobucket:
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4516.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4523.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4519.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4534.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4535.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4542.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4555.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4554.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4550.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4553.jpg
http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...B/DSCN4556.jpg

**Mrleft8** · 04-17-2012, 02:49 PM

Looks pretty good to me. You might want to double check to make sure you got all the sapwood out.... It kinda sorta looks like there's a little bit left on the outside face, but that might just be a color variation.

**David G** · 04-17-2012, 04:03 PM

I'm satisfied. Yes... cut out/around the sapwood.

When you square an end from which to measure for your final lengths... make sure you cut enough off so that you've lost all the end-checking. I judge this by cutting as much as I think I need, then cutting off just a sliver for testing. I flex that sliver back and forth, and if it hold together - rather than snapping easily at an invisible-to-the-naked-eye sneaky check - then I declare that the starting point.

**DoctorB** · 04-21-2012, 10:41 AM

Thanks for the input - it's all very helpful. I'll keep going then. Transom, stem, keelson, and chines...I'll get there...

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