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Thread: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

  1. #1
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    Default How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I have been building wooden boat models for over 54 years and I credit that fact for my long time interest in the full size craft including some of the techniques used in the construction of them. To my knowledge there is no longer a regular publication covering boat models in this country today so what would be the chances of adding this to our favorite Publication? I feel quite strongly it would provide good incentive toward progressing to full size craft when one considers the fact that construction techniques are quite similiar.......especially in fairly large scale such as 1/4. Would like to hear from others on this. You might want to look at some of my "stuff" on www.vvm.com/~btbldr ............thanks!

    John
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Great minds think alike! I was just thinking the same thing the other day. Here in the forum, there seems to be a lot of interest in modeling as well as in full sized boatbuilding. WB magazine has had a few articles in the past about ship modeling, just a few, and I think they were well received. I don't think they can really get so far afield as to devote a ton of space to models, but I do think a page or two in each issue as a regular feature would be welcomed by all. As we all age, and reality sets in, we face the fact that we can never build our "dream boats" (always more than one!) and a lot of us take to model building as the "methadone" for our wooden boat addiction. It's great fun to build a design we love "dockyard style" just as the full sized vessel would be built, and a lot easier on old backs and pocketbooks. Having built models on and off all my life, I am convinced that one has a very difficult time building a good model if they don't have a complete grasp of how the full sized vessel is really constructed.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    beautiful work John! very inspiring. i think it's a great idea. Bob has summed it up very well (as usual). it is a great way to feed the addiction. as someone who has only recently started modeling wooden boats, i would love a place to find more ideas and information.

    perry

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I am very proud of this one!

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I liked the models covered in Currents in issue 225 and would be happy to see a page or two covering ship models and modeling on a regular basis.
    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
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    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    It would be nice to see a few more articles on this. My whole life, I've been building full size boats as a hobby. Physicial limitations are now slowing me down a bit (although I still have at least one full time build left in me!) and I'm thinking more and more of modeling. I would like to build an RC sailboat that looks like the real thing, not just the hobby-store designs.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    The "Footy effort" of a few years ago was one that I hoped would take off as a way for modelers to get a toehold here on the Forum and at the Show and perhaps at the School (which has expanded its modeling classes in a different direction).

    I was sad to see it fizzle.
    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

    -Mark Twain

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Many thanks for the fine response.....I think one of the key elements in model boat building is the satisfaction one gets from lofting a boat at a scale of anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 ......I use 8X8 or 10X10 to the inch grid fadeout velum available at any blueprint shop which is a great aid in assuring accuracy of the overall project. Most scales are available on standard triangular architect's rules however if one desires a special scale, contact The Scale Card, P.O. Box 2872, Crestline, CA 92325-2872 or www.thescalecard.com and they'll make you a plasticized scale card at whatever scale you wish at nominal cost. I used 2.5"=1'0" on my live steam launch and plan to use the same on a 28-foot 1929 Chris Craft Upswept triple cockpit runabout. And for drive systems, you cannot beat Rich Cole at M.A.C.K. Products Model Marine, P.O. Box 464, Long Branch, NJ 07740-0464 (732-870-2966)......Rich has a full line of electric motors available in single or dual and geared in a variety of ratios plus shafts, couplings, excellent PWM speed controls, etc. and he really knows his stuff. I ordered three sets of drives from him last fall when building three 38" Hacker runabouts for one granddaughter and two grandsons for Christmas. Also....for a source of top quality Finnish Birch aircraft plywood, most hobby shops can supply this but I would suggest Aircraft Spruce West in Corona CA (800-824-1930) or their eastern division Aircraft Spruce East in Griffin, GA (800-831-2949).....they have it in 7 thicknesses from .4 mm up to 6 mm and in 50" X 50" sheets and it will be considerably cheaper and there will be more USEABLE (less waste) material in the long run than buying from hobby or craft stores. I really like using the .8 mm as underlayment for models planked in 1/16" Honduran mahogany, cedar, etc. and the 1.5 mm for thicker planking.

    I feel strongly that if one plans to build a really nice model, he should consider building at a fairly large scale.....never anything smaller than 1/8.... and preferably 1/6 , 1/4, or a bit larger if his shop space and, more importantly, his method of transporting the model to the water's edge will allow it. The cost difference between a 1/8 scale model and a 1/6 or 1/4 scale model is not very significant and if one plans to install radio control equipment, the larger model will be much more realistic in operation due to wave action on the smaller model. The gear motors that Rich Cole sells have very high torque at 12 VDC and you will be rewarded by very good performance if you follow his recommendations. By the way, he also sells sail control mechanisms.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

  9. #9
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    In defense of building large scale models over small scale, I wanted to add that construction of the larger model is much easier as it will withstand clamping pressures much better and alignment, fastening, repairs of "mistakes" will be much easier and will be much more forgiving of handling problems at the water's edge than the smaller model........

    John
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    As a long term subscriber, I'd very much like to see a model section in the magazine. There are lots of people who love wooden boats, but don't have the wherewithal to build for themselves in full scale. Even for those planning to build in 12"=1' scale, it can be a great help to put a model together first. No matter how you try to represent a three dimensional object on paper, or on a computer screen, nothing can compare with having an actual object that you can look at, that you can run your hands over -- there is no real substitute for that.

    Here's a couple of shots of the model I am building of a boat I've designed and would like to build full size.






  11. #11
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    She's gonna be a beauty....no doubt about that!

    Another interesting facet in the building of models is the construction of deck and cockpit hardware. I build my hardware to scale using purple jeweler's wax ....the blue is too soft and the green is too hard and brittle.......purple carves just right. Then I take the pieces to a nearby custom jeweler and he casts them for me in brass (or silver if needed) using the lost wax process. After casting, I polish the rough castings and give them back to him to make wax injection molds in Castanaldo rubber for future hardware items. The detail that is obtained using lost wax casting is amazing.....I've even seen a fingerprint show up on a piece.......I've toyed with doing my own casting but haven't quite made that move yet.

    Realizing that one cannot take a ride in one of his models, if his "Number 1 Pleasure" in wooden boats is the planning, construction, and finishing of them, then I think models are a wonderful way to experience this at far less cost and with a wide open field with regard to the number and type one could build and store during his lifetime. I still have an old 42" wooden hydroplane (an Octura White Heat 460 "kit boat") that was radio controlled and powered with a .56 cubic inch Supertiger engine and this boat was built in the '60's.

    John
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

  12. #12
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Amen to the model section. I would definitely participate. Here's a model mackinaw that I started as a study for the real-deal. I planked 1/2 traditionally and the other 1/2 using strips to see how the planks would run.IMG_8582 - Version 2.jpg

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    A model section makes sense. I just finished one but haven't photographed it yet. Here's one I built before tho:



    https://plus.google.com/photos/10872...49209415607697

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Nice job Paul. Have you considered skinning it with something clear, like saran wrap?
    "Bundinn er bįtlaus mašur" Bound is boatless man.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Here's my version of a melonseed I did years ago.


    "Bundinn er bįtlaus mašur" Bound is boatless man.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Hey John, quit fooling around with the models and get that Victor Slocum wet!
    Denny Wolfe
    www.wolfEboats.com

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBen View Post
    Nice job Paul. Have you considered skinning it with something clear, like saran wrap?
    I have but I don't think I would be able to do it well enough. I've also thought of paper. It would have to be able to show the frame well tho.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Paul, wonder how applying really sheer ladies hose would work as a skinning material? No doubt the frames would show through and the covering would be strong however if you tried to apply a clear lacquer over it, it might tighten up and damage the model......I believe I would try it on a scrap assembly of some sort to see how it would look & work.

    Also.......Kbowen, Paul, and Chrisben.....you've got some really beautiful work there !

    Also....Denny, the instrument panel & 1/4" adjustable stainless steel motor mount is complete.....progress is being made! ....Victor Slocum is my SwanSong for full size craft

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Montgomery View Post
    I have but I don't think I would be able to do it well enough. I've also thought of paper. It would have to be able to show the frame well tho.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

  19. #19
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Paul, another thought in favor of sheer ladies hose.....I think the covering needs to have the slight bit of color (very light tan) that this would provide....if you used something completely water clear, I don't think you would get the appearance that the model needs.....you need to somehow delicately accent that covering......just my 2 cents worth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Montgomery View Post
    I have but I don't think I would be able to do it well enough. I've also thought of paper. It would have to be able to show the frame well tho.
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by John A. Campbell View Post
    Paul, wonder how applying really sheer ladies hose would work as a skinning material?
    Good idea. I might have to try that.

  21. #21

    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I've built a lot of Sterling mahogany Chris-craft kits...but can't find the pictures...
    So here's a (gasp!) PLASTIC Flower Class Corvette I put together over the winter...
    http://rctruth.com/index.php?topic=1...icseen#msg1278

    And for those who do not know, I am the owner of Easytiger Models.
    And we are rather seriously into manufacturing giant sized RC model aircraft, particularly electric power, check it out at www.easytigermodels.com or http://www.youtube.com/user/easytige...s?feature=mhee
    It may open your eyes a little bit as to what is out there today....

  22. #22
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy View Post
    And for those who do not know, I am the owner of Easytiger Models.
    And we are rather seriously into manufacturing giant sized RC model aircraft, particularly electric power, check it out at www.easytigermodels.com or http://www.youtube.com/user/easytige...s?feature=mhee
    It may open your eyes a little bit as to what is out there today....
    Wow! I've crashed more than my share of control line model airplanes back in my youth. Taking a nosedive with one of your model planes would be a costly mishap! Do you have to clear flying those with the FAA? Scary, but neat!

  23. #23
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    Thumbs up Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    How about a list of model boatbuilding clubs, i would like to start a club even though i am not a model builder. Maybe i could learn to build something half as beautiful as the ones you build. Anyone who is interested in starting a club can give me a call,631-225-1666 we can meet at my shop Long Island N.Y.
    Last edited by walterc; 04-23-2012 at 07:58 AM.

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?


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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    This thread has prompted me to get a damaged model Barque out of it's box and begin repairs. She dates from about the 1940's and was made by an Italian prisoner of war from a piece of pine and old wooden fruit boxes mostly. Not bad, made without too many references probably but historic because of it's origins. Somewhere along the way she was dropped, badly but all the bits were kept and I acquired her about 20 years ago. Never quite got round to restoration till now, never quite felt I could do it justice but I've started.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I know that in order to get real usable data from a model it should be large (say 6' at least) and used under exacting and controlled conditions. But I think there are some things that can be learned even from smaller, less sophisticated model testing.

    Realistic drag figures? Probably not -- but floatation, steerage, and wake formation -- maybe so...

    Here's a two minute clip of my "Atkin-ised" raised deck cruiser. Trimming well at a scale 7300#, turning and maneuvering, and running at scale speed with very little wake.



    Tom

  27. #27
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Very, very nice model with excellent running characteristics......a quality model indeed.

    And, Walterc, there are RC boat clubs in many places (at least 4 in Texas) but they are racing clubs with (gasp!) f--------s hulls. I don't know of any that are dedicated to wooden hulls, scale or otherwise. Once upon a time I started to build a model of John Hacker's "My Sweetie", a step hydroplane from the late '40's and early '50's....a gorgeous boat it was....and when I contacted one of the clubs (Dallas) and told them what I was planning and that I wanted to install a 22 cc Zenoah w/centrifugal clutch in it they wouldn't allow it ....that was years ago....I doubt if they've changed their mind.

    The VERY BEST model boat club in the USA (in my opinion) is the San Francisco Model Yacht Club........ they've got everything....beautiful scale, gas, electric, steam....I was there in 1998 for their Centennial event (yep, they've been organized since 1898) and I ain't never gonna forget that experience....they've got their own pond very near downtown San Francisco that was donated by a very wealthy fellow who was in the big-time sugar business....his name escapes me at the moment.....the club's President in 1998 was Ken Valk.

    Bob Cleek, you are a lucky man.....you're right there in San Francisco.....you ought to be right in the midst of them all the time!

    John
    The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation......Thoreau

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    I would be interested in a forum like this because my experience with the two local (Chicago) RC sail clubs is that they are all about racing. I went to their gatherings for a while and someone might bring a unique project they were working on and everyone would gather around for about 10 minutes and then it would sit on the bank while they got back to racing the class-du-jour: Soling 1 meter, or Santa Barbara, or 12's. I scratch-built a Friendship sloop which I brought to the lake a couple times and everyone referred to it as "the schooner" presumably because it was Gaff-rigged. It was often an "almost-fun" experience.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    When I was a kid I was fascinated with anything that would float and progressed through various degrees of toy and pond yachts till my models were 6ft long topsail schooners with a the basic RC available at the time. When one sailed out of range and was lost the next boat I built was a chase boat, a canoe, out of plywood and that's where it all started.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Montgomery View Post

    Very nice! What scale are these kayaks done at? What materials used?

    Trevor

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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by trefor View Post
    Very nice! What scale are these kayaks done at? What materials used?

    Trevor
    Thanks. The are 1:4 scale. The Greenland is all Alaskan Yellow Cedar. The baidarka is Western Red Cedar, Oak and bamboo skerwers for the ribs (but I won't make THAT mistake again!).

  32. #32
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Montgomery View Post
    Thanks. The are 1:4 scale. The Greenland is all Alaskan Yellow Cedar. The baidarka is Western Red Cedar, Oak and bamboo skerwers for the ribs (but I won't make THAT mistake again!).
    1:4 scale? That would make it about four feet long, maybe? If I read that correctly. Never thought to work that large with models. I've only made a few rough looking ones at an inch equals a foot. Mostly to figure out construction for the full sized boat. Not small, as a finished art piece, itself.

    I might try my hand at some skin-on-frame models in the near future. Building a full sized one in my garage (Dave Gentry Chuckanut 12) has piqued my interest in more traditional designs.

    Thanks,
    Trevor

  33. #33
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Quote Originally Posted by trefor View Post
    1:4 scale? That would make it about four feet long, maybe? If I read that correctly. Never thought to work that large with models.
    Thanks,
    Trevor
    Yep. Adney did 1:5 but I find it easier to work out scale in inches by going 1:4. Any smaller and I'm afraid the detail would be lost. 1:2 scale would be a fun size to make a RC boat :-)

  34. #34

    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    Paul Montgomery wrote
    I have but I don't think I would be able to do it well enough. I've also thought of paper. It would have to be able to show the frame well tho.
    Great skins for SOF kayak models are model airplane iron-ons:
    1)fabric (it's a real fine fabric with an iron-on coating) for a great SOF nylon/polyester skin simulation. Shrinks all you could want and will take about 10 minutes to cover that model. Real fast, you'll just love what you can do with it.
    2)Or one of the plastic iron-on films - they can be opaque, to translucent, to transparent - just check your local rc airplane outlet.
    Last edited by mick allen; 05-04-2012 at 01:42 AM.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: How About a Woodenboat Models Section?

    In the website www.traditionalsmallcraft.com, we have been writing about building models before and as we build the real boats. would love to hanve some pictures and copy of other models. Especially ChrisBen's beautiful melonseed model.

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