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Thread: Cheats and Freaks

  1. #1
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    Default Cheats and Freaks

    I'll start with Honda's New Racing Engines and the road and GP bikes that used them.





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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    That first photo looks like a model...

    ...and is that very bizarre piston truly real? Is it part of a thumper? What is the point?
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    That first photo looks like a model...

    ...and is that very bizarre piston truly real? Is it part of a thumper? What is the point?
    When Honda returned to Grand Prix racing the sport was dominated by two stroke engines. They wanted to concentrate on building four stroke technology. The rules prohibited bikes of more than four cylinders. To make a four stroke competitive with a two stroke it has to breath really well. So Honda developed the oval piston bikes to make a V4 think it was V8. The entire purpose was to increase swept volume and valve area. Brilliant eh?!

    They built three hundred of the top bikes for sale to the public at $50,000.00 each 1992. There's one on ebay right now for sale with a current bid of $194,000.00.
    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Might as well get Derek Gardner's Tyrrell P34 out of the way.

    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    BT46B
    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks


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    I knew after posting the Tyrrell that the Brabham would be next.
    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    I used to know the aero guy who developed the "sucker" Chapparal> The greatest rule-bender of all time. A car you could stick to the ceiling while it was parked.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    I've seen this one "in the flesh"


    Yes - it is as strange as it looks.
    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    This should open a can of worms.

    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    600 cc .....
    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    I used to know the aero guy who developed the "sucker" Chapparal> The greatest rule-bender of all time. A car you could stick to the ceiling while it was parked.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Why would anybody choose to race a pushrod engine at Indianapolis?Because it used to mean that a larger displacement engine was permitted.



    By way of contrast a definite cheat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    By way of contrast a definite cheat.
    Can you fill in some of the details? Early '90's Celica?
    "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken." (stolen from TomF )

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Why would anybody choose to race a pushrod engine at Indianapolis?Because it used to mean that a larger displacement engine was permitted.
    And ten additional pounds of boost. . .
    I never learned from a man who agreed with me.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    I used to know the aero guy who developed the "sucker" Chapparal> The greatest rule-bender of all time. A car you could stick to the ceiling while it was parked.
    I got to sit in one @ Lime Rock - engine off though. Quite a feeling!

    A friend had (sorry no pics - but a 66 or so IIRC) a Lola Can-Am car that he made street legal. 375HP 327 in a car that weighed about 1600 lbs. He used to eat muscle cars for breakfast at the races that were arranged at the drive-in.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Quote Originally Posted by B_B View Post
    Can you fill in some of the details? Early '90's Celica?
    Excuse the C&P,but its all in here:
    oyota Team Europe has been banned from competition for the next 12months, and the points already gained in the 1995 World Rally Championship have been taken away by the FIA.

    "It's the most ingenious thing I have seen in 30 years of motorsport." admitted FIA President Max Mosley after an extraordinary meeting of the FIA's World Council convened following technical reports on Toyota from the Catalunya Rally.


    The cause of complaint was that Toyota had fitted turbo restrictor�s which were modified in three ways:

    The restrictor was not sealed so it was possible to move it without touching the seals.

    It was possible for airto enter the engine without passing through the restrictor.

    The position of the restrictor could be moved so it was further away from the turbine than the50 mm limit permitted.

    It was discovered that these irregularities were made possible by a flange which had a special hidden bypass device which was held open against a very strong spring. The hose which connected the restrictor to the turbo had a metal casing inside, and attached to this casing were catches which could secretly force open the by-pass flange to the extent of 5 mm.

    Max Mosley explained: "When the system was dismantled, the flange would automatically close itself and remove evidence that extra air could have entered engine. This system not only allowed extra air which did not pass through the restrictor to enter the engine, but also the restrictor itself could illegally be moved further from the turbo.

    "The hose was fixed to the restrictor by a jubilee clip. A special tool was then applied to open the device and then the device then gripped in the open position by a second clip. Both of these clips had to be undone for a scrutineer to check the restrictor and in the process of opening those clips the device snapped shut.

    "Inside it was beautifully made. The springs inside the hose had been polished and machined so not to impede the air which passed through. To force the springs open without the special tool would require substantial force. It is the most sophisticated and ingenious device either I or the FIA's technical experts have seen for a long-time. It was so well made that there was no gap apparent to suggest there was any means of opening it."

    The FIA estimates that 25 per cent more air was allowed into the engine than permitted although admits it's difficult to estimate how much more power that would achieve. An expert put it as high as an extra 50 bhp�a considerable advantage when the cars are supposedly limited to 300 BHP.

    TTE did not claim the device was legal but was represented by lawyers who entered a plea in mitigation. Mosley went on to say that the points Toyota and their drivers, Juha Kankkunen, Didier Auriol and Armin Schwarz had gained in 1995 would simply be taken away but others would not move up to fill the gaps.

    The team would also be banned from contesting the 1995 Network Q RAC Rally and the 1996 World Rally Championship. He also stated that the FIA would not allow the team to get around the restrictions by entering under another guise and went on to say that there was however, nothing to suggest that the drivers were aware of anything going on.

    According to Toyota the device had been devised at a "certain level" and the management knew nothing about it. The FIA dismissed this claim, saying that as a team they were responsible for all their actions.

    He went on to say that there were indications that this type of thing was not happening with in other teams and praised those who were concerned with discovering the irregularity. TTE has announced that it is planning to appeal against the ban extending through 1996.

    The absence of the team would weaken an already frail championship and leave it to a fight between Subaru, Mitsubishi and Ford with Subaru being the obvious favourites.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Ingenious! Thanks.
    "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible that you may be mistaken." (stolen from TomF )

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    This should open a can of worms.

    I heard the NZ entry's zipper broke. Anyone have a video?

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    It will be interesting to see how the Delta Wing project does at Le Mans this year. I don't expect it to finish, but the team claims they should be able to get between the P1 and the P2s with only 300 bhp. Color me sceptical but interested:


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    The Delta Wing reminds me of a cross between a land speed record car and a sidecar outfit.It will probably do what it does quite well,but how does it compare with any known quantity when there is no obvious comparison?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Then there was this one, which led the 1967 Indy 500 until a gearbox bearing failed on lap 197 out of 200. Parnelli Jones got a jacket made that said "Indianapolis 490 Champion".





    The oval-piston Hondas never did well on the track, BTW

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  24. #24
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    Talking of sidecars... Rolf Biland 1978 and BEO
    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    This isn't as bizarre, unless 250cc divided by six qualifies. IIRC, it had a powerband from 11,233 RPM to about 11,241.


    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    One obvious choice.
    Last edited by Lew Barrett; 04-14-2012 at 07:13 PM.

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    Also freaky, but a winner.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    I think the powerband on those Honda fives and sixes was a lot higher than that.... they revved up near 20,000 IIRC.

    I've got my next scrapheap challenge bike lined up... one of the Japanese 250cc four cylinder buzzboxes. My son has ridden one. He says they start making useful power over about 14,000 rpm and redline up around 19,000.
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem


  29. #29
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    I always thought these were freakish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post


    Also freaky, but a winner.
    A sad and somewhat abortive bike - designed in in the expectation that the rules would be the same after the war as before - and having understood what really drove the power increases in the RR Merlin et. seq. - the project was banjaxed by the 1946 ban on superchargers - did win a world title while Europe was in ruins but was comprehensively out-classed by the Italian four cylinder engines.


    But casting the head in silver - that was inspired.
    Complicated problems usually have simple solutions - which are almost always wrong.

  31. #31
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    Stanton Corvette

    Reputedly the guys that built this convinced Bruce McLaren to change from the alloy Oldsmobile blocks to the cast iron Chevy ones for his Can am cars.
    Last edited by Stiletto; 04-15-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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  32. #32
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    a few i like that make you think WTF or similar.


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/hugo90/1715744464/





    1954 indy engine 274 ci dual OHC hemi combustion chamber, gear drive cams, cross flow head, Direct fuel injection for each cylinder. First run in '52 IIRC.
    Block Manufacturer : Studebaker
    Block Material : Cast Iron
    Cylinders : 8
    Cubic Inches : 274
    Bore : 3.5625
    Stroke : 3.4378
    Block Year : 1952
    Head Manufacturer : Goosen Designed, Willy Utzman built
    Head Material : Aluminum
    Cam : DOHC; 4 Valves/Cylinder
    Cam Drive : Gear
    Carbs : Hilborn Mechanical Fuel Injection
    Head Year : 1952
    TBC.......
    NDNs have higher IQs*



    *indian quotients.



  33. #33
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    Definitively one of my all time favorites. so here goes forgive my enthusiasm if you would please.








    And who would build such a relatively advanced engine in 1952 and develop it for the 1954 Indy500?




    The Iconic S indicator of a car/vehicle manufacturer that in 1952 was in it's 100th year of building vehicles.
    NDNs have higher IQs*



    *indian quotients.



  34. #34
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    A couple more oddities:
    And another blind alley off the path of innovation:


    I have not only seen one of these on display,but had to leap out of the way when a car powered by one almost went over my foot.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    One of the early "cheats" in stock car racing was a guy who figured the torque from an engine turning the "normal" way hurt the traction of a race car running an oval track with all left turns. Throttle down hard and the inside tires got a slight lift from the torque of the engine.

    So he re-machined a stock Ford or Chevy motor to run in the reverse direction.

    His idea worked and he started blowing everything off the track. Competitors and officials finally figured out his sudden success must mean something wasn't kosher.

    They tore everything apart and couldn't find anything out of spec, at first. Then some sharp-eyed dude spotted something weird about the differential/solid rear axle. The oil drain plug was in the top of the case!

    I guess the creative genius blew his wad re-machining the engine but figured he didn't need a special rear end. He took the easy route--the standard axle was turned upside down!

    I don't think they took away any of his wins but they did outlaw reversed engines for subsequent years.
    Goat Island Skiff and Simmons Sea Skiff construction photos here:

    http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w...esMan/?start=0

    and here:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/37973275@N03/

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    Sorry to break Paul's heart, but a cheat she was. A sloop with an extra mast to take advantage of the generous allowance for schooners
    Last edited by Hwyl; 04-15-2012 at 07:05 PM.

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    Porsches' 1966 twin engine indy entry..... Didn't fair so well.





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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Talking freaks( not cheats)


    Fiery Cross. She couldn't race because of the standing rule against moving appendages( apart from rudder)




  39. #39
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    I think that was the same Fiery Cross that was up North when I did some racing out of Mangonui. Very narrow beam for her length. Got along nicely.
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  40. #40
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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    Some bloke called Yunick



    .... he built a 7/8 scale Chevelle.
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem


  41. #41
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    How about the Uffa Fox 'twin mast' sailing canoes?

    Uffa Fox, a member of the Humber Yawl Club, and Roger de Quincey, an R.C.C. member, challenged in 1933 for the New York Canoe Club International Trophy.They were to have sister boats, which were to conform to both the R.C.C. 'B' class rule and the American Canoe Association rule. Uffa foresaw that such a challenge, if successful, could lead to an International Rule. The American rules at that time required Canoes to have two masts, so Uffa equipped his boat with a solid wooden fore-stay which fulfilled the requirement. He and de Quincy cleaned up. They and the American Canoe Association agreed to incorporate the best of the two existing rules. They returned home andthe Royal Canoe Club agreed to the new "International Rule".
    Yma o hyd

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Some bloke called Yunick
    Smokey was probably the best at pushing the rules envelope. One of my favorites from him was the gas line. There was a rule limiting the size of the fuel tank, but no rule on the size of the gas line, so he installed a 2" id fuel line that wound around the car a couple of times. It held an additional 5 gallons of fuel!
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  43. #43
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    Mark Donohue's championship winning Z/28. The stock body was dipped in an acid bath reducing its thickness and shaved 250 pounds off the weight of the car.

    The 302 cu in Chevrolet Smallblock that revved to 9,000 RPM was pretty trick too.



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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Smokey was probably the best at pushing the rules envelope. One of my favorites from him was the gas line. There was a rule limiting the size of the fuel tank, but no rule on the size of the gas line, so he installed a 2" id fuel line that wound around the car a couple of times. It held an additional 5 gallons of fuel!
    You forgot the part where he was challenged on carrying extra fuel, and the car was taken for tech inspection, the gas tank removed and measured, Smokey then starts the car, and drives it back to the paddock with the gas tank removed.

  45. #45
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    I heard that was Junior Johnson, but still a great story.
    Surprised no one mentioned Joe Duplin's son's floating anchor.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    A sad and somewhat abortive bike - designed in in the expectation that the rules would be the same after the war as before - and having understood what really drove the power increases in the RR Merlin et. seq. - the project was banjaxed by the 1946 ban on superchargers - did win a world title while Europe was in ruins but was comprehensively out-classed by the Italian four cylinder engines.


    But casting the head in silver - that was inspired.
    I might have said: "A one time winner." I reckoned everyone who knew it also knew it was in the freak category. I read a year or two ago that one sold for in the vicinity of 175 large (if memory serves), a world record at the time.

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    A couple of freaks...

    In the late eighties Norton had a twin Wankel rotary engined bike being used by some of the UK's police constabularies. Brian Crighton was convinced it could make a race bike, and the racing versions, particularly the RCW588, had great success in the various formulas of British Superbike racing.




    Meanwhile, at the opposite end of the earth, John Britten was busy piecing together his idea of what a race bike should be. John was an architect who had meticulous attention to detail and great ingenuity. When he couldn't find the door handles he was after for his own house, he went and cast his own. The bike is full of innovation, the remote rear shock and the use of the engine as a stressed member were especially ahead of their time. Because of the limited numbers the bike was restricted to prototype racing classes but did spectacularly well in BEARS and BotT race series and at the IoM TT.

    'When I leave I don't know what I'm hoping to find. When I leave I don't know what I'm leaving behind...'

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    Default Re: Cheats and Freaks

    I couldn't manage to post a picture, but a 1956 Porsche 550 sported a wing, arguably the first in a competition car. The development of mechanical sports seems to depend on this kind of reach--which often is quickly quenched by a rules change. Smokey argued he never broke rules, only did things where no rules applied. It's the nature of development. It's also a problem with mechanical sports, where the operator/sailor/etc., is using a machine that keeps changing. Is it a sport of the man or the machine? The closest competition ends up as racing with historic vehicles, or those strictly limited.

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