12' "anti-RIB" pram/tender/sail/outboard by Doug Hylan

[rbgarr]

http://www.dhylanboats.com/oonagh_fr.html

[David G]

I like it. Might be tempted to switch to a balanced lug, instead of the standing lug, but otherwise looks sweet.

[JimConlin]

I like it.

[SScoville]

I would expect her to be very stable. She has 5' of beam. I think I like the design too.

[BBSebens]

I like it. Might be tempted to switch to a balanced lug, instead of the standing lug, but otherwise looks sweet.

I never understood the difference.

Nevertheless, a smart looking craft.

[Lewisboater]

I never understood the difference.

Nevertheless, a smart looking craft.

Standing lug has the tack pinned to the mast whereas the balanced lug has the tack further forward with a parrell holding the boom to the mast. The luff is straight up and down or only slightly canted...sometimes even forward a bit. Compare the two.

[James McMullen]

Tim n' me'll show you some balance lugs tomorrow, Ben.

[rbj37]

Balanced lug/standing lug. I've never understood the advantages and disadvantages. I'm building a 13" plywood/frame rowing skiff based on plan 002 from the Hampton Mariner's Museum and I was planning on a standing lug of about 72 sq. ft. (based on Daisy--Woodenboat issues 126-7). Would a balanced lug be a better choice? Why? Thanks for any thoughts.

[landlocked sailor]

I like the big rubrail, the pram bow for towing and the sail rig option. Doug Hylan draws very nice boats. Rick

[Hwyl]

The new generation of rigid bottom inflatables, or RIBs have some additional vices.

They have some pretty amazing virtues too. The RIB prototypes were wood and cool

several varieties of pollution – sound, air, water – and have a tendency to foster questionable skylarking by bored youngsters. And recently, mankind has discovered that burning petroleum might just have another big drawback as well

Doug designed D'Anna in WB 225 as a pure powerboat so he's not that committed against polluting.

[Dryfeet]

They have some pretty amazing virtues too. The RIB prototypes were wood and cool



Doug designed D'Anna in WB 225 as a pure powerboat so he's not that committed against polluting.

No, but he understands marketing to those who might be unenthusiastic about polluting....

[Spokaloo]

Economies as they are, I'd think we should refrain from slinging mud at a designer for his perceived marketing tactics or concepts of design. Something tells me he designs what he gets paid to design, and occasionally does work for his own preferences. If someone handed you 3 months operating costs for your business to build a stinkpot when you have no other work, are you going to thumb your nose at them because you don't like engines?

Let's not be so absurd Gents.

E

[sailnstink]

Nothing against the designer and nothing against the design, I had to laugh after reading the marketing description and seeing the good reviews. New designs are always good but there is no shortage of anti-rib designs out there many of them predate ribs by decades.

[John Bell]

Reminds me of one of my own as-yet unbuilt designs. If I ever do build it, I'm going to change the daggerboard to make it a little wider. The boat isn't fast enough for that narrow chord.





The mast may need come aft a few inches as well. I'd always intended to sail it before finalizing everything.

[Hwyl]

Nice boat John, I see you are using a more modern rudder too, Doug Hylan's harks back to the late 1800's

[Hwyl]

Economies as they are, I'd think we should refrain from slinging mud at a designer for his perceived marketing tactics or concepts of design. Something tells me he designs what he gets paid to design, and occasionally does work for his own preferences. If someone handed you 3 months operating costs for your business to build a stinkpot when you have no other work, are you going to thumb your nose at them because you don't like engines?

Let's not be so absurd Gents.

E

I don't think it's slinging mud. He is comparing this rather nice retro dinghy to something that is much safer and infinitely (word chosen carefully)) more seaworthy. That goes well over the disingenuous line.

[keyhavenpotterer]

I think Oonagh is a really rather nice design. She would be a lot of fun in the Keyhaven Salt Marshes... except for.....the non lifting rudder blade and the dagger board. There is so much fun to be had sailing around the marshes, cutting across very shallow sections knowing that the rudder and board will lift ok. A dagger and non lifting rudder would be such a bore in these situations.

Solving the lifting rudder is easy enough, and if the central storage dagger case assembly was extended back a little, there would be room for a pivoting centreboard and the larger central storage would be useful as a picnic table, as well as extra storage and buoyancy.

In the rear section two side benches would make sailing upwind more comfortable and these could slide inboard, supported by the back of the central tank and the fore edge of the rear storage. That would produce a sleeping platform, for day naps or overnight sleeping.

Rig a hoop tent, canvas wagon type, and what a great little marshes explorer. A sort of lightweight "inshore" protected waters version of SCAMP.

Brian

[skaraborgcraft]

Nice, but does it have any real advantages over a simpler build such as Michalaks Piccup pram? A well sorted wee boat with a cockpit big enough to sleep in,masses of bouyancy/lockers and my choice for a protected water one man camp cruiser,a lot of fun for the money/build time. Cheers

[rbgarr]

The last pram I spent any length of time was a Sea Shell, a design from the 1950s. My dad built two of them in our basement, one as a dinghy for the family sailboat and the other, with a sail, etc., for me. I liked the boat and had a great time with an old Johnson 3 hp on it also.

I've seen the Nutshells, but haven't been in one, and they look very nice in their rowing and sailing configurations. Joel White's eye of course.

This past fall I got to use this one by Paul Gartside. I was impressed by how much it seemed to have the characteristics (stability, light weight, adequate flotation, easily towed) of the typical inflatable, yet was more boat-like and pleasant to row. Of course it wouldn't fly on a plane like a hard bottom inflatable might, but I don't care for that anyway. I'm guessing the Hylan design is similar in the flesh, although longer.



Watercraft Magazine sells the plans: W83, Sept-Oct 2010

[Hwyl]

If Doug Hylan is reading this. I was lucky enough to volunteer at the old National Sailing centre in Cowes at the tail end of the RIB testing program, the Avon Searider had been developed and it filled the role perfectly, although it ate engines. There wasone RIB that had a hull a lot like a Fireball, narrow and scow like. Man, that thing could fly, it had a small outboard and had ultimate stability because of the sponsons and it never went into production. It probably pounded, it would not have affected me, I was in my early 20's and stupid. It was the most popular boat amongst the staff.

I always thought that model would have made a good build it yourself tender. Low profile when deflated, you'd have to hinge the transom. It could be unsinkable, self bailing and rowable, sailing would be a stretch. Just a thought and I wanted to counter my negativity

[Todd Bradshaw]

That sail really isn't a standing lugsail (although at some point the distinction gets rather fuzzy). It's rigged more like a balanced lug with the mast/boom intersection shifted very far toward the front of the boom. In a true standing lug configuration, the sail could be used either with or without a boom and the boom (if present) would usually be attached to the aft side of the mast using jaws or a gooseneck. The sail's tack corner would usually be attached either to the boom jaws, gooseneck or directly to the mast, not to the end of the boom out ahead of the mast. A balanced lug always has a boom, extending ahead of the mast and the tack corner is attached to the boom. Boom to mast attachment may be a side-mounted jaw, a parrel, or in some cases, nothing at all other than tension on the downhaul (pulls the boom both downward and aft).

In use, the balanced lug tends to be self-vanging, limiting upper sail twist and keeping the sail working from top to bottom as it swings like a barn door. The standing lug is not self-vanging. This allows the boom's aft end to lift more and the upper part of the sail to twist to leeward as a depowering tool in a blow. There can be a rather big difference in just how much sail area is catching wind at a given moment between the two types and neither is really right or wrong. Sail twist can be both good and bad, depending on the conditions.

Standing Lugsail



Balanced Lugsail

[SScoville]

How well do you think Hylan's new design will sail? I've liked Atkin's Little Peter design and wanted to build one for years now, but I've felt it would not be stable enough for 2 to stand and move around in, which is what I want. This has a lot more beam. So, will she be stable enough to stand and poll? How well do boats like this sail?

[keyhavenpotterer]

I think she will sail very well. She is about the same length, beam and sail area as our Scows which sail very well.

SCAMP sails very well with her pram bow, I understand that her balanced waterlines allow this. In the UK we have over 70,000 Mirror dinghies sailing about this size which also have pram bows.

Oonagh is larger forward than our Scows, so roomier "bigger" if you will and she does look stable for moving around. Will also be stable for climbing into and out off.

Brian

[wizbang 13]

Tender or stand alone mini yachts?
What's going on here?
I cannot recall seeing a single 12' sailing pram being used as a yacht tender.
Cruisers do not hate their RIBS, they love them , and their 15hp Yammies!

[keyhavenpotterer]

I cannot recall seeing a single 12' sailing pram being used as a yacht tender.

There are hundreds of 12' Scows around here - all along the Solent shores. They were designed as tenders to the large yachts which in the old days could not get into Lymington River, so crews sailed out, dropped the rig into the boat and left them on the mooring while they went sailing. A good sized tender to get from jetty to mooring is a really useful thing. Perhaps a little too big for cruising with, but great as your home base and local cruising tender.

Many local people still use their Scows as tenders.

Brian

[SScoville]

Well I've ordered the Oonagh plans and I'm going to put my Bay River Skiff up for sale. Hopefully I can collect enough to build Oonagh and buy a trailer for my shanty boat.

[keyhavenpotterer]

Well done and congratulations SScoville, good luck with your build and please post what you can of your progress.

Brian

[SScoville]

Well the plans arrived yesterday and they very well done, consistent with what others here say about Hylan's plans. I have a question about glued lap construction. Do the planks maintain the same bevel from bow to stern? Thus, if the plan shows a bevel of 3/4 inches for a plank at station 3, does that mean that edge of the plank takes a 3/4" bevel it's full length?

This is a lot of boat. Hylan says in the plans that prams are often thought of a way to build a moderate size boat in a small package and that Oonagh is a big boat in a moderate package.

[Lew Barrett]

I don't think it's slinging mud. He is comparing this rather nice retro dinghy to something that is much safer and infinitely (word chosen carefully)) more seaworthy. That goes well over the disingenuous line.

In respect to RIBS: everybody enjoys the look and idea of a traditional sailing dinghy but get caught out in a sudden blow when you are on a simple milk run
and you change your tune fast. RIBS are basic tools of cruising, and a 12' sailing dinghy is not easily handled on board eve a 50 foot boat, so that argument is somewhat moot. Notwithstanding, no doubt this is a nice boat for the right owner with a need for what it offers.

Tender or stand alone mini yachts?
What's going on here?
I cannot recall seeing a single 12' sailing pram being used as a yacht tender.
Cruisers do not hate their RIBS, they love them , and their 15hp Yammies!

No kidding.