Daysailer conversion... Interesting project mostly woodenboat.... part not

[RodB]

I have considered the idea of replacing the chain plates but was hoping to just leave them as original or perhaps thru bolt them to a bulkhead with a 90 degree twist. To be honest, I haven't even looked at acquiring materials to replace them. I have been going on the assumption that keeping the rigging as original was the simpllist approach per the adivse I was given by some "experts". With a rebuild like this, restructuring the chain plates is not a big deal... I will certainly consider it. Would it appear to be overkill to have external chain plates thru bolted on the outside of the hull?

As I do some exploratory work on checking out the bedding of the chain plates, I will be there and can always grind them free and lower them a couple inches and rebed all with glass and epoxy.

RodB

[Reynard38]

Thats the sheer I envisioned when I first saw her on the cradle... I wish that damn decal was not there... I need to borrow the sander polisher decal/sicker remover accessory from the sailboat shop...







Thanks Wayne...

Next... complete the gutting of interior with work on the bilge stringers (replacement ) as they are important in supporting the hull... (for example on the cradle). The keel bolts are also one of the next priorities... I plan on rebuilding/replacing the floors along with repairing/reinforcing the hull interior where the keel attaches. The keel bolts will be replaced with threaded rod to maintain keel indexing and the keel will be blocked well below. I plan on removing the steel backing plate and with the fore and aft threaded rods in place (with nuts tightened) I can work on the three middle floors and replace them, then switch to the fore and aft threaded rods.

For now... with the structural elements removed I'll fill and fair the interior... I'm likely going to power wash the interior and clean up things a bit before working on the entire hull interior surface. I also plan to examine the chain stays carefully and reinforce them if necessary.

OH yeah... our arms are itching...

RodB

Great thread here, this one will be fun to watch.
Back in college I worked in a shop that repaired fiberglass and wood sailplanes. The itching would drive you nuts.
The owner of the shop told me to take a hot bath with vinegar in the water.
You smelled like a salad, but it worked!

[RodB]

Thanks Doc... I'll try that for sure...

My long hot shower scrubbing with wash rag doesn't work..

RodB

[johnw]

Watch out for your lungs, too. The silicon in the fiberglass could make you very sick. Remember, Spinoza was a lens grinder, and died of silicosis.

[BillyBudd]

Rod, I've been reading about your work on this endeavor, and I've got a few questions for you.

1. When I turned the hull on my boat I thought I was almost done, but was in reality only about 40% done with the build. I'd be curious about your sense of time saving on hull because you're modifiying an older hull.

2. How long will that fiberglass hull last before you're faced with restoration/excessive care issues? What do you have to do it it to maintain it? Gel coat(s)? Sealers? Inside and outside?

3. Is is your sense that the original spars/sails are right for the modifyed boat? Have you considered wood spars, a different sail plan?

4. It is really a sweet idea, reclaiming for the good a well designed hull and remaking the cockpit/cuddy out of wood. Lovely. I'm wondering about smaller f/g fixed keel hulls (say 18', more or less) that are well known for their design and performance because that size might be more inviting to many -- more trailerable, easily accomplished, etc. Ideas?

5. Lastly, I'm really pleased that I'm now "retired" from boat building: 5 boats here! DONE. Otherwise, I'd find temptation gnawing at me! Good work, keep that f/g off your skin...if you can.

Cheers!

[seo]

Up above in post #101 there's a comment on changing chain plates to external bolted chain plates. There are a few reasons why you might not want to do this:
1) The sheeting angle of the jib is limited by the shroud placement. No big deal for a cruising boat, but if the object is a boat that will go to windward, the ability to sheet the jib in tight contributes to windward ability. These boats are pretty good sailboats, and if it were mine I'd want it to go to windward as well as possible.
2) Fiberglass is a pretty floppy material, strong but flexible. It's why they build fishing rods out of it. A shroud attached to the hull will generate two loads- one is the shearing load of the shroud pulling up, and the glass will resist this all right if you put a few more layers of glass on the inside, so that you have a total thickness of maybe 1/2" where the shrouds are bolted, tapering out to nothing in eight inches or so. That will give something for the bolts to bear against. Remember that even a tiny bit of movement will directly show up as a leak inside. The second load is the sideways thrust against the hull, which is trying to flex the deck edge inboard when the rig is all loaded up. To resist this you may have to reinforce the deck so that it has enough panel strength to resist this thrust. Not a huge deal. Maybe double up the plywood subdeck at the shrouds, extending maybe two feet past on each end. And make sure that the hull-deck joint is very strong here.
These considerations are why most modern FRP sailboats have shrouds that attach well inboard of the deck edge. The "chainplate" may be a metal fitting bolted to the deck, and below decks there's a solid rod that is threaded into the back of the "chainplate," and goes down to a longitudinal stringer that glassed to the hull. Which means there's no loading on the deck or bulkheads, which means they can be lighter, and less prone to creaking and groaning when the hull is driven hard.
The intermediate approach is to have conventional flat bar chainplates go down through the deck, and bolt to a transverse bulkhead. There's no need to twist the chainplate 90º unless it pleases your esthetic sense. The turnbuckle's toggle doesn't care.
With this arrangement it's pretty important that the chainplate be in line with the shroud. Maybe the best way to do this with one-off construction might be to initially install the chainplates with just a single bolt right up close under the deck. Then when the mast is stepped, gently snug the shrouds up tight, and the chainplate will automatically align itself with the load, and you can drill the rest of the holes for your bolts.
Looking at your photographs, I still think that if you're going to have that keel off before you're done, take it off now, so that the boat will be lower to the ground. It's amazing how much easier and quicker the work goes if you can work on the deck edge while standing on the ground.

[RodB]

Posted by BillyBudd.... Rod, I've been reading about your work on this endeavor, and I've got a few questions for you.

1. When I turned the hull on my boat I thought I was almost done, but was in reality only about 40% done with the build. I'd be curious about your sense of time saving on hull because you're modifiying an older hull.

2. How long will that fiberglass hull last before you're faced with restoration/excessive care issues? What do you have to do it it to maintain it? Gel coat(s)? Sealers? Inside and outside?

3. Is is your sense that the original spars/sails are right for the modifyed boat? Have you considered wood spars, a different sail plan?

4. It is really a sweet idea, reclaiming for the good a well designed hull and remaking the cockpit/cuddy out of wood. Lovely. I'm wondering about smaller f/g fixed keel hulls (say 18', more or less) that are well known for their design and performance because that size might be more inviting to many -- more trailerable, easily accomplished, etc. Ideas?

5. Lastly, I'm really pleased that I'm now "retired" from boat building: 5 boats here! DONE. Otherwise, I'd find temptation gnawing at me! Good work, keep that f/g off your skin...if you can.

Cheers!

I don't know if the following answers your questions but

1) Starting with a hull with an attached keel has to represent a pretty good time savings minus the demolition phase. I'd say the "unbuilding process" (ie., demolition) can take a few weeks if you want to end up with a completely clean smooth hull interior and if you peruse Tim Lackeys Chronological project links... you can see more or less whats involved.

http://www.lackeysailing.com/daysailor/projects1.htm

No matter how you say it... demolition on an old fiberglass boat is nasty and messy an itchy... and I'm not sure I'd have chosen that route if the specific boat that I was considering was any larger than 23.3 feet etc. . . which is a small keel boat. The fun part for me will be when the interior construction starts.

BTW... Tim's project was at least 30-35% more work than mine because his Pearson Triton had a Diesel engine and was a few feet larger than our Oday Tempest, which is only 23. 3 feet LOD. I'm also thinking just gluing and bolting in a sheer plank is not very complicated for the start of rebuilding the decks. One of the reasons this project seemed interesting was that it wouldn't take the kind of time building a similar sized boat from scratch would, and still lots of the fun parts of building a wooden boat would be involved. Also, the hull and keel were sound... and that was important. The most attractive part of the whole project was the hull itself, which was designed by Philip Rhodes (a great designer) and I could see the hull could look quite appealing without the old style cabin and a lower sheer..etc. Additionally, the cost factor made it attractive (low cost) and the hull came with the steel cradle and a Nissan outboard engine. I did not see this as my "dream boat" or anything like that...but a kinda cool project that I could share with a newby to sailing who is a good friend and a decent carpenter. Splitting the labor and cost of the project just made it an interesting project that would be fun and not take a ton of time. We estimated a couple of years taking our time more or less... I wouldn't have even considered this venture if I did not see a daysailer conversion as a really fun and interesting opportunity to see how appealing we can make her with some traditional styling and a "period" cabin, etc.

2) Fiberglass boats like anything else... can and do last a very long time.... just look at the thousands of old one still around waiting for the sun to destroy them. IF you spend a little time to learn how to evaluate them, you can certainly find one in good shape structurally that would be worth refurbishing or converting as we are trying to do here. If you find a relatively sound hull I feel its pretty straight forward to go thru it and bring it to a level of finish and soundness that it will last as long as it is cared for. There are several publications on refurbishing older fiberglass boats and with all the modern products available today like epoxy and barrier coats, etc, you can improve an older fiberglass boat immensely.

3) New spars and sails... The mast for this Tempest is in decent shape and we thought we would go over it carefully and paint it white, replace the shrouds and back stays, and forestay etc. Since we also have a boom and a spinnaker pole in good shape, the original plan is to make use of these perfectly fine spars... but... I have considered the possibility of building a wooden mast and new sails... that is a decision we will make later on. In a project like this, you have several choices. You can do minimal to it to keep it sailing... all the way to only using the restored hull and building an all new boat on a sound hull. Mr Lackey had to have spent over $30K to convert his Triton and he also had a new mast made and new sails. He ended up listing the finished boat for $89K and sold it soon after ... Don't know the selling price but his work quality is high and he actually had a "new boat" when he was done.

Have not considered another sail plan as this is a fin keel hull and I doubt anything will do better than the original sail plan by Philip Rhodes... a standard sloop.

4) Any smaller FRP keel boats from the past would be ok if the hull had the styling of the end of the wooden boat era... This would be a personal taste type of issue but I will say I thought the Oday Tempest a bit too modern when I first saw it..but when I took a profile of the hull and modified the cabin etc, I realized it could be a very cool open cockpit daysailer IMHO.

5) It would be hard to just stop messing about with boats and not having a project to work on now and then.


SEO... I plan to keep the chain plates where they are... with your comments it definitely seems the wisest and I want her to sail as good as Philip Rhodes designed her to. As far as removing the keel, I will if I have to, but I'm not sure it will be necessary. After some more investigation I'll let you know. Note: the ability to lift the boat and handle the 1200 lb keel ain't that simple either if you have limited equipment.

RodB

[RodB]

So... here we are about to do an exploratory on our keel to see what all has to be done to insure we have a sound hull and keel before starting the daysailer conversion. This first pic shows some support and blocking we added to insure the keel was very stable and would not move with our loosening all the keel bolts. Keeping cost in the picture, we used an old 12 foot beam that could be attached directly to the middle uprights on the cradle and we just clamped the keel between this beam and a 2x12 with lag bolts. This blocking plus the fact that the hull is level and the majority of the weight is on the keel, we should be pretty solid in our position. The 2x12 seen here is one of our walk boards from the scaffolds, which will go right back to its normal use after this "keel thingy" is done.



Here we are looking from the cockpit area toward the bow... so I removed the three sided box that was the forward part of the cockpit floor and was in the process of removing one of the floors to see what exactly was going on with the keel attachment in the hull. Up to now, we had pretty much assumed a run of the mill keel attachment system with the keel bolts running a few inches down into the keel with the floors offering the support for the keel backing plate. We also assumed the keel bolts ran through a few of the floor timbers.



And here I removed partially a portion of the port side floor... noting it was wet old plywood glassed heavily.



With the floor removed to the keel, it was noted fiberglass was running along the side of the keel. We realized we could not find out exactly what was going on until we removed the metal keel bolts backing plate.



We are prepared to replace the keel bolts with these 6" pieces of threaded rod so that we can remove the keel bolts and then the steel backing plate... but be sure no matter if the keel moves, we keep our bolt indexing.



An here Stan is removing each keel bolt and replacing it with a 6-7 inch piece of threaded rod. With the weight of the hull on the keel and the blocking we added, we do not expect any movement of the keel....but you can never be too safe!



continued...RodB

[RodB]

Ok, so some progress with bolts replaced with threaded rods.



Finally, the backing plate comes off... what do we have here?



Well, I'm not sure what I was expecting... but.... the hull has a molded slot shaped flange that allows the Iron keel to come right up into the hull and that fiberglass vertical flange that also has a lip on the inside handles the majority of the weight of the keel. The diagram below is rough but without complete removal of the keel, its my guess from what I can see. ... The half- floor timbers stiffen and strengthen the hull around the inner flange that supports the keel and spreads the weight distribution throughout the hull amidships.



This closeup shows better and you can see we are keeping a couple of backing blocks tightened down till we replace the rest of the floors, then we will block them up and fix the last two.





This shows from the stern a wider view... the two bolt stations tightened down and the rest with threaded rod to keep the junk out of the holes. With this keel hull arrangement it is pretty straight forward to replace the half floors and to reseal/rebed the top of the fiberglass flange and then bolt down the keel bolt backing plate. Now we will began replacing the "half floors" and I will also reinforce the inner hull flange because I want the water proofness of epoxy to keep water out of the hull at this susceptable area. I'm thinking remove the floors around the keel and after all is good and dry... add some glass and epoxy around the vertical flange and the bilge area at the lowest surfaces... I want to be sure we have a completely epoxy coated bilge area and for that matter the majority of the hull interior "bilge" surfaces. We also plan to install limber holes which do not exist now as she is between the half floor timbers. From my take on this setup, the majority of the weight of the keel is on the vertical part of the hull slot with the lipped flange allowing for an easy surface to seal out water with the steel plate. Comments welcomed...



continued...

RodB

[RodB]

Heres a wider shot to show our "shade" arrangement for now.



Perhaps with bright sun more shows up...



Changing the subject... if you ever want to get rid of a decal... this is the accessory for your sander polisher... a bunch of soft rubbery washer shaped thingys... (not rubber) that when spinning the edges will take decals off in small particles. This set is smaller in diameter than other sets I have seen.



How its used... works great...



Oh yeah... Saturday we got a deal on some used telephone poles for building a pole barn over our project... 16 footers planted in the ground 4 feet...



The priority now is to remove and replace the half floors around the keel and get the interior center bottom completed. More to come next weekend. Summer is pretty much here and soon we will be at the 105 degree days... so we will slow our progress and work early mornings.



RodB

[RodB]

The rudder post will be part of our initial exploratory process, and what we have left here at least marks the level of the seat in the rear... The bulkhead here needs to be removed and replaced ... and we need to examine stringers behind this bulkhead and the outboard well, etc.



RodB

[RodB]

So heres what I have in mind roughly...but it should be in the ballpark. Sheer planks will be doubled 3/4" Mahogany thru bolted and epoxied.... frames notched to maximize surface area (or sheer plank bevel slotted) resting on the sheer planks. This is initial layout and we have to make definite decisions as to cabin shape and work around that. This is a ways in the future but it helps to stay steps ahead in planning... Note: the breasthook will have to be developed first before final spacing is determined for the laminated frames. The crown on the deck will be a bit more than used by Mr Lackey as I want the deck to gain some of the height back for mast step location height and also it can look pretty flat if you go with too little camber. I just was reading Buehler a few days ago and he commented that most sailboats needed more camber (crown) in their decks....and that many thousands of sailboats around the world had rot happening due to poor drainage.

Naturally I have to consider several elements of the final layout before making final decisions.

R

[Rich Jones]

That'll be one sweet looking daysailor!
What were the original keel bolts made from and did you have any problem backing them out? Being an iron keel, I'd think they could have been a bear to remove.

[RodB]

They were Stainless.... but I expected Bronze....as I had read on the internet someone who had re-bedded their keel on a Tempest said the keel bolts were bronze. I was kinda surprised as to the keel attachment as it came right up inside the hull. I was kinda expecting the keel to stop at the hull exterior and the keel bolts to be longer with floor timbers that were continuous bearing the majority of the weight. We are about to embark on the chore of putting up a pole barn over our boat... so there will be a lag for a few weeks.

RodB

[johnw]

That centerboard-like arrangement on the keel joint looks stronger than just a flange on the outside.

[seo]

The keel mounting arrangement makes me think that there was at least an idea somewhere, at some time, of making a version of this hull with a centerboard or daggerboard. Otherwise, it's a peculiar way to mount a keel.

[Larks]

I have considered the idea of replacing the chain plates but was hoping to just leave them as original or perhaps thru bolt them to a bulkhead with a 90 degree twist. To be honest, I haven't even looked at acquiring materials to replace them. I have been going on the assumption that keeping the rigging as original was the simpllist approach per the adivse I was given by some "experts". With a rebuild like this, restructuring the chain plates is not a big deal... I will certainly consider it. Would it appear to be overkill to have external chain plates thru bolted on the outside of the hull?

As I do some exploratory work on checking out the bedding of the chain plates, I will be there and can always grind them free and lower them a couple inches and rebed all with glass and epoxy.

RodB

Whichever way you go with the chainplates, I really don't think moving them outboard by the 10 to 20mm that you would do if you decide on external ones will make any difference whatsoever to sheeting angles or anything at all. It'll really come down to personal preference and what sort of appearance you might want.

[Rich Jones]

A story from my past:
A friend of mine bought a used Grampion 26 many years ago. It was a shoal draft with a keel/centerboard. The former owner never used the centerboard and it become encrusted into the centerboard slot in the keel with barnacles. So, my friend's husband decides to help by clearing this mess out. He uses an 18" drill bit in his drill and runs it around on either side of the slot. She calls me up in a panic and I go over to take a look. In his zeal, he managed to drill a nice row of holes right up through the bottom of the boat. Well, a little bit of heavy fiberglass cloth and some epoxy fixed the problem , but I don't think she ever forgave him!

That's my keel story. I'm glad that your's is working out so well.

Oh, and we like pole barn building pictures also!

[RodB]

We are trying to do no damage to the good parts....

R

[w.FL.co.]

Great project. The keel must be sealed with compound, both top and bottom (and middle.) It doesn't look like it's been leaking. I wonder if the keel will drop out easy, or require extra effort.

Snap some pictures of that pole barn if you get a chance.

[RodB]

There was some water when I drilled a hole in the side of the vertical part of the hull slot... so I'm guessing water has gotten in there over time migrating . I plan to dry out the area surrounding the upper keel and do some drilling on the bottom around the base of the keel to let any water drain. I realize in a perfect world, it would be nice to just pull the keel from the hull and inspect all, dry all and re-bed with new compound. In a few weeks we will have the ability to lift the hull with poles from our pole barn setup...but dealing with the keel is another matter (1200 lbs).

I need to think on this a bit more...

I'm figuring this out as I go... and I definitely want the keel/hull assembly to be very sound.

RodB

[skaraborgcraft]

Cracking along well Rod. With regards to keel removal,i would personally block the keel where it stands if you have no way of easily shifting it around, it will be easier to lift the hull off and down on the ground with a bit of fore-thought. I think the keel to hull join does a good job of spreading stresses around,but depending what was used as a sealer,i reckon you may have a hell of a job getting it free. Not much happens with cast iron in the way of rust,compared to steel.I wouls attempt an exploratory dig around the sealer as much as possible,but i dont think i would personally worry about breaking it out, depending on what you find of course. Chainplates....mmmmm.....several options already highlighted,i think personal preferance to looks will be the key, but you still need to see how those plates are just below the old deck level.....if theres any issues with it like severe pitting, better to replace them. Looking better already!

[Wayne Jeffers]

Thanks for posting this thread, Rod.

I don't know much about fiberglass boats, but I love this kind of project that breathes new life into an object that might otherwise have been destined for the landfill.

She does have a nice looking hull!

Wayne

[SHClark]

I think this keel installation is pretty good. Some of those guys in Fall River were smarter than they got credit for.
It may be that Tempests were shipped without their keels installed, this would have been a good way to allow the dealers to assemble the boats with a minimum of hassle. Would have made shipment less expensive as well.
For my money, I would cut away the floors, shape foam core to provide a ramp tapered ramp and fill the stub and cover it with a few plies of uni and cloth. This would eliminate the need for limber holes and would also preclude any water getting trapped in there.
You might be able to jack the hull off the keel with the keel bolts and some big C Clamps.
SHC

[RodB]

Thanks guys for the interest and input.

Well, our "lifting apparatus" is going to be 4 telephone poles (two on one side of the hull 12 feet apart and two matching poles on the other side. We will have a 4 pole structure with 2x12's runnng along side the hull almost at the top connecting the poles and triple laminated 2x12's extending across the hull atop the poles. There will be additional poles (4 total on each side of the hull to make for a 36 foot long, 15 foot wide pole barn more or less but with lifting capability only on the two middle poles on each side of the hull. We plan to use chain hoists and two straps connected on each side to the overhead laminated 2x12's to lift the hull straight up for exterior hull work. I guess we could lift the hull high enough to clear the keel if it would come loose ?? ...but remember we have a fairly unstable hull sheer (that means wobbly sides without all the necessary final bulkheads and deck beams). I actually had no plans to remove the keel and had planned on blocking the keel as we have now with all locked down tight... and just dealing with making the interior floor timbers etc sound and very strong by replacement and liberal use of epoxy and fiberglass. The half floors are supplying some compression strength for the lip of the hull slot with the keel bolted down. I like the suggestion of simplifying the structures to reproduce the support and make for no water traps.

I'm still going to have to think about all this some and welcome any input.


SHClark, please digress on your comments on shaping a ramp with foam to eliminate water traps...but remember I would still want to add the support the half floors offered to the vertical part of the hull slot.


RodB

[Hesp]

I've been "talking" to Rod by email about decks and thought I'd post some images I drew in CAD here in case anybody else is interested. The question is, can you use the same radius deckbeam throughout the boat? Rather than say "yes" or "no" I'll let you look at the images I made.

Two identical foredecks except - On the upper deck the sheer sweeps upwards towards the bow. The lower one has a flat sheer.
All the deckbeams are the same radius - about 3/8" per foot max beam.






Here's the sheer with sweep. The lower i mage is the same deck with a graph of curvature drawn on the centreline of the deck.
As you can see, the curvature increases towards the bow, but it looks okay, although you might find you've got a flatish spot at the bow.





Here's the deck with flat sheer. You can see that the CL of the deck dips just before the bow and this is emphasised on the curvature graph.
The graph is below the CL at the bow (concave) and above the CL aft (convex). Not so good.

My feeling is that sometimes a constant radius deck works and sometimes it doesn't. It depends on the combination of how flat and how full the sheer is.

John

[sjpeterson]

As the “apprentice” on this boat conversion with Rod, I would first like to thank everyone for their input and comments. My back ground is more construction and wood working so bear with me as I hone my boat building terminology and learn these new processes. As thoural as Rod wants to be, I find my self questioning what would be “nice” to do and what “needs” to be done to restore/rebuild this boat. I also find my self playing devils advocate a lot, mainly because I want to understand why we are doing something.
With this in mind I would like to know what we would gain by completely dropping the keel. There is nothing in there (wood) that is rotten. After 30 years should we worry about the bedding used to install the keel? Does the bedding help secure the keel to the hull or is it just a water sealant (keel should be secured by the plate and bolts and the exterior fiberglass)? Once you start removing the keel I would think there is no turning back and if it is not leaking now, is it a waist of time to try and drop it and replace the bedding?
Again thanks for the comments!
Stan

[Hesp]

I think you have to set a standard now and stick to it. I'm not saying a high standard - far from it - just a standard that you feel comfortable with and stick to it. For example in my post above about deckbeam radius - you could make a seperate jig for every laminated deckbeam in the deck, but to maintain that standard throughout the boat would mean the project would take years, have an enormous budget, and I'd argue you might as well have built a new boat. On the other hand if you set too low a target you could just be throwing time and money away. What's less obvious is the trap of throwing resources into one area and neglecting others so that there's no consistency - again, that's throwing time and money away.

This doesn't really answer your keel question does it? Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will tell you what you might gain by taking the keel off, I just wanted to stress the importance of putting that knowledge in context.

John

[RodB]

Heres the present sheer after the last cut... we definitely are going to go with the top choice in John's drawings... ie., the centerline sheer (hight point of the deck beams) following the sheer of the boat.. I 'm thinking the camber can be increased a bit though.



The following show what we have to deal with for the stem hardware... we will have to recreate a location for the stem hardware as seen in the original but at the same time fabricate deck beams and deck that achieve a nice fair deck in the "cone" shape more or less.



Cleaner shot...



And a profile of the original stem hardware...



and how Tim Lackey did his...



which we will keep the breast hook lower to achieve our smooth transition from stem to foredeck... toe rail or not.

Link to his fabricating the breast hook http://www.lackeysailing.com/daysail...ing/decks2.htm



This superimposed image shows the transom is higher and kept a higher profile for the hatch clearance of the outboard and the extension of the surface where the back stays were running. ONce we figure out how this will come together the sheer at the transom will go higher... When I took this shot I was not thinking "get centered exactly for a true profile"...but its ok to illustrate the transom height to be dealt with.



RodB

[Hesp]

If you re-use it that stemhead fitting will probably need an interestingly shaped block of wood underneath it to fill the gap, although you mention letting it into the deck. Both solutions are a bit clunky. I don't think it would be that expensive to have a simpler new one made. It could be as simple as a flat bar running up the stem, bent round onto the deck (or a welded joint) with a few inches running along the deck, with a bar set on edge welded to it (all with holes in of course). But again, if you start remaking hardware where do you stop? The trouble is you could spend a few hours getting the existing stem head fitting to fit and still have a less than satisfactory solution.

What's the "two part forestay" you mention in the photo? Two forestays? Not good IMO.

John

[RodB]

My mistake... all of the forestay hardware seen is one piece. The second piece attaches under the deck and extends to the forward edge of the stem ("V") inside and meets up with the through bolts that are there on the lower part of the hardware. . . completing the triangle. With such a simple deck to be rebuilt, I will consider a simpler arrangement, but this is a good stainless hardware...

BTW... the reason Mr lackey installed the breast hook early on was access to the bolts was best then... and I think he liked the look of the large mahogany block of wood fitted around the stem hardware casting.

RodB

[dirtdobber]

How's that pole barn coming?

[RodB]

Due to heat, etc, decided to take a two month break...

R

[RodB]

Beginning work again... starting with the pole barn structure... for the upcoming winter. We were able to get some local utility pole guys to drill holes for our used telephone poles and were able to set 6 of the poles on Saturday. We also mixed the concrete making it a long day...









Here all 6 set and solid with concrete. Once we get all 8 set, we will trim all of em at 12 feet and begin construction of the roof.



More to come in the near future.

RodB

[johnw]

Dang! That's going to be an awesome boat-building space.

[RodB]

ITs going to be 30 X 16 with the two center poles on each side going to be set up as a lifting apparatus to lift the hull when necessary.

R

[johnw]

That's doing it right.

[dirtdobber]

Keep up the progress. Still watching out here. Stan......get to work!

[Alan H]

Curious if there are any updates to this project....seems like a really interesting one, to me.

[RodB]

Alan, We have all the posts up now and cemented in... now its time to fabricate the trusses and roof, which ain't chicken feed... Since this is a secondary project for both of us, we are not in a hurry, but progress on the boat will be taking place with our without the pole barn roof in the immediate future.


RodB

[Alan H]

Alan, We have all the posts up now and cemented in... now its time to fabricate the trusses and roof, which ain't chicken feed... Since this is a secondary project for both of us, we are not in a hurry, but progress on the boat will be taking place with our without the pole barn roof in the immediate future.


RodB

Two thumbs up!

[SMARTINSEN]

Bump for Captain Intrepid, and ask for an update, too.

[RodB]

Ok, starting up again, trying to finish the roof on the boat shed/pole barn. We were lucky to get some county lineman to drill the holes for us 5-6 feet deep in just 30 min for a couple cases of beer and here we have lined up a level string at the height we want.





Here is the deal Stan got at a local bolt supplier, 60 15 inch galvanized carriage bolts with washers and nuts for $90. Stan will sell the extra to easily get his money back ... if you look at the cost of such items at regular stores.



So we used small pieces of 2x4 to make simple rests to hold the 2x12's in place (removed later) and used a jig piece to get perfect placement from the string line. Once we placed the beams, we used two deck screws in predrilled holes to secure them to the post... then drilled the holes for the galvanized bolts. All in all pretty straight forward and the results will be a pretty damn strong pole barn structure for not too much money. The used telephone poles were about $200 and easy to get if you have a 16 foot trailer. The outside 2x12 is 1.5 inch lower than the inside. There will be plenty of headroom to stand on the boat cabin top with the cross beams at the top of the poles....which will be 12 feet from the ground.







Continued.

RodB
www.brinkboatrepair.com

[RodB]

So here working on the other side of the structure... The Scaffold setup is much easier than a ladder as you can see.





Both sides done except for the one section of the right side which needs a couple of straight 2x12's which will be done later. We will return the bad ones and get straight ones.



Well, heres days end hoping to have a roof up in the next few weeks. This is a longer term project and not a top priority for either Stan or myself, but we do want to get to the building process on the hull interior as it will be the fun part. We need a roof with the Texas sun.






Continued with progress...

RodB
www.brinkboatrepair.com

[RodB]

Continuing... here we put up the last two pole top 2x12's on the left ...



Here we started with one of the "lifting" beams.... laminated in place. Each 2x12x16 ft were laid atop the scaffold top bar and liquid nails was spread over the surfaces to be glued. The two middle posts will have three 2x12x16's laminated to make a strong beam that will support the weight of the craft with chain hoists and straps wrapped under the hull. These two sets of poles are 12 feet apart along the side of the hull... and the poles across the hull to their outside edges are 16 feet apart. With two triple laminated 2x12x16's we should easily be able to lift the hull with a weight now of approximately 2000 lbs... and if we double the weight by completion, it will be easily within the range of weight we can life with our used telephone poles which are around 5-6 feet in the ground with plenty of cement.



Another angle.... note the three beams in the middle and the blocking filling the space for the upright 2x6's... there is a bolt going through all both at the top (visible) and lower hidden by the 2x12's running along the top of the structure.




The front two beams in place with liquid nails applied, clamps and one vertical brace clamped on the other end. The ends of our laminated beams are just past the outside edge of the poles.





Front double 2x12 beam completed...



Con't

RodB

www.brinkboatrepair.com

[RodB]

Moving along... etc etc...etc. Beams up and truss fabrication next...








Here all the beams are done... and we rigged up a tent line to keep her covered for now.






More to come soon, completion of the roof will take more bucks... Those 2x12's are sure expensive.

RodB
www.brinkboatrepair.com

[johnw]

That shed looks like it's built for the ages.

[wizbang 13]

no kidding!!! it's obviously not for snow, is that type of building for tornadoes?

[Ryden]

I think it's built to withstand TEOTWAWKI!

[RodB]

This pole barn was built strong because the two middle sets of posts are meant to be able to lift the hull later in the rebuild process. With 4 chain hoists and wide straps that wrap under the hull, we will be able to lift the hull easily with this setup. If not for desiring the ability to lift the hull we could have built lighter. Note: the used telephone poles were less money than all other types of poles we looked at... ($ 200) and getting the holes dug by some local linesman on the county road sure made for reasonable cost up to this point. The lumber for the rest of the framing is another story... Stan, my partner in this project, owns the land and did not want to build anything that would not be useful later on for any other purposes as a utility building.

RodB