The small trimaran thread

[wtarzia]

Thanks Chris, I will keep that in mind. I definitely want the Tamanu "done right." Short Dragon was/is a wonderful platform for ramping up my learning. The old proa, Victor T, was totally crude but as my first boat, and a nontraditional one at that, it was also a good entry for what what it was. Short Dragon refined some building skills, and was also intended for constant experimentation, and that is exactly how it played out. I designed him in my head, and often as I sat in the garage or basement staring at the parts, the design changed. But his organic growth certainly led to evident compromises, and also too much brute strength (=weight) in the vaka and ama. Now I have Gary Dierking's plans to save me from myself, though I lament that I will be be building someone else's boat because primal creation is in my blood. I will probably save the ama design for myself, though. Gary does specify a larger rig suitable to my lighter air, and maybe I will go with that. I do know I am wedded to one thing -- a yawl rig. The ketch is a tad inefficient for diverse sailing regimes, but a yawl-mizzen is, I think, too good to forgoe. -- Wade

[Dan St Gean]

Thanks Chris, I will keep that in mind. I definitely want the Tamanu "done right." Short Dragon was/is a wonderful platform for ramping up my learning. The old proa, Victor T, was totally crude but as my first boat, and a nontraditional one at that, it was also a good entry for what what it was. Short Dragon refined some building skills, and was also intended for constant experimentation, and that is exactly how it played out. I designed him in my head, and often as I sat in the garage or basement staring at the parts, the design changed. But his organic growth certainly led to evident compromises, and also too much brute strength (=weight) in the vaka and ama. Now I have Gary Dierking's plans to save me from myself, though I lament that I will be be building someone else's boat because primal creation is in my blood. I will probably save the ama design for myself, though. Gary does specify a larger rig suitable to my lighter air, and maybe I will go with that. I do know I am wedded to one thing -- a yawl rig. The ketch is a tad inefficient for diverse sailing regimes, but a yawl-mizzen is, I think, too good to forgoe. -- Wade

Nothing wrong with a yawl. Keep it super small and let the big high aspect main do the driving for best VMG. If you don't mind stays, I like the rig Gary put together for his Va'Motu. I think that boat might be the perfect tri for my solo+ idea. Scale it down to say 18' and mimic the ama on the other side rather than the safety ama...just would have to figure out steering with that stern.

Dan

[wtarzia]

... I like the rig Gary put together for his Va'Motu. I think that boat might be the perfect tri for my solo+ idea. Scale it down to say 18' and mimic the ama on the other side rather than the safety ama...just would have to figure out steering with that stern.....

--- Really, quarter-steering can work well. I can count the number of times I made it through stays on my two hands :-), so I am perhaps too used to backing the main as a way of life. The only time it is truly bad is when tacking off a lee-something, and you risk losing ground. But a quarter steering rudder/oar does not mean that will happen. With my stern rudder, the old quarter rudder, and the older quarter steering oar, 90% of the time all I needed was a little backing to get around (and in fact when the wind is brisk there is generally more force available to bring me through stays, as I noticed in EC2011, when I was tacking through a squall with truly bad waves for a half hour *without* a rudder).

[DavePont]

just would have to figure out steering with that stern.Dan

As Wade says a quarter rudder could work. I did toy with the idea of rudders on amas for a tri, but making 2x everything and rigging steering all gets more complicated.

The Va'a Motu stern sure looks high, but in this video you can see waterline comes to the base of the transom underway:



So a stern rudder could work, pintles at mid and base of transom? You could build out slightly at the lower pintle to get it more vertical. Maybe it would detract from the beauty of the design though?

cheers, Dave

[wtarzia]

[QUOTE=DavePont;3387971]...So a stern rudder could work, pintles at mid and base of transom? You could build out slightly at the lower pintle to get it more vertical. Maybe it would detract from the beauty of the design though?...[QUOTE]

--- But Gary makes his quarter-rudder work on that hull just fine, so would not a proven design be OK here? The other advantage to the quarter rudder is having it close to hand and eye. --Wade

[Dan St Gean]

I love quarter rudders on outriggers but would prefer a stern hung rudder on a trimaran. Edit to add: maybe it's not a big deal either way... Maybe the slick folding of Frank's tri or the over the top Gary is using on his Va'moto would get it done. Fast launching is essential. I love the look of the Va'Motu though! Perhaps the thing to do is build the one I'm loving vs. modify a design. I'm not going to go down that road as I've traveled it before.




I wonder for a solo outrigger or tri if 18' is long enough? Perhaps the thing to do is to build it as light as reasonable and incorporate and find a good plase to stow a mini catrax style trolley that can stow aboard for solo expeditions.

Dan

[DavePont]

I wonder for a solo outrigger or tri if 18' is long enough? Perhaps the thing to do is to build it as light as reasonable and incorporate and find a good plase to stow a mini catrax style trolley that can stow aboard for solo expeditions.
Dan

An 18' Va'a Motu - I like the sound of that! Gary will be able to advise on details - away until end of month I believe.

I wonder would you scale everything, or just length? As a tri, would you move the iako hinge point out say 6" so both amas could sit next to each other over the hull? Undo one set of hinges to remove one ama and convert back to a single outrigger! and add a pola, or safety ama... sounds like lots of fun.

Not sure what a catrax looks like, hopefully it breaks down somewhat. Lots of storage on the Motu, just need a hatch big enough to get it in there. This might be a use for that cut, tape, epoxy, trick to make a tight fitting custom hatch...

I was reading the comments on the Va'a Motu at Gary's blog. There was a really large, positive reaction - people love it. If plans could also accommodate some of these options they could be very popular indeed.

cheers, Dave

[Dan St Gean]

An 18' Va'a Motu - I like the sound of that! Gary will be able to advise on details - away until end of month I believe.

I wonder would you scale everything, or just length? As a tri, would you move the iako hinge point out say 6" so both amas could sit next to each other over the hull? Undo one set of hinges to remove one ama and convert back to a single outrigger! and add a pola, or safety ama... sounds like lots of fun.

Not sure what a catrax looks like, hopefully it breaks down somewhat. Lots of storage on the Motu, just need a hatch big enough to get it in there. This might be a use for that cut, tape, epoxy, trick to make a tight fitting custom hatch...

I was reading the comments on the Va'a Motu at Gary's blog. There was a really large, positive reaction - people love it. If plans could also accommodate some of these options they could be very popular indeed.

cheers, Dave

That what I was thinking. Move the hinge outboard a bit so both hulls can land on the vaka like the W17 and many other tris do (and have done for a long time).

Cattrax are large low pressure tires like this:


The Va' Motu has that something special visually.

Dan

[Dan St Gean]

Another contender is the Richard Woods Strike 15. It folds like the DIY but the amas move forward rather than rearward. It's still in the concept stage, but Richard describes it as a dingy with training wheels. That's a bit like the Weta although I think the S15 will have a narrow vaka unlike the Weta. It might be perfect if stretched out a bit. As it is the boat is a bit short of carrying capacity for my little solo+ idea.

[DavePont]

Another contender is the Richard Woods Strike 15. It folds like the DIY but the amas move forward rather than rearward. It's still in the concept stage, but Richard describes it as a dingy with training wheels. That's a bit like the Weta although I think the S15 will have a narrow vaka unlike the Weta. It might be perfect if stretched out a bit. As it is the boat is a bit short of carrying capacity for my little solo+ idea.

Interesting, lots of sail! Main hull looks to be narrow, with 'wings' above waterline. Amas almost 50% of main hull volume. Potential stowage in main hull and amas is not bad for overnight cruising, but a bit cramped for a second crew?

If they sit in main hull at extreme front end of cockpit, legs extended forward either side of daggerboard, with a comfy seat that could work - a great spot for a kid. But if they want to get 'on deck' they'd be trapped in the forward part of the deck crawling over daggerboard, sheet spaghetti, dodging the boom, getting wet and getting in the way of everything.

Stretching to get room for a second person is not super obvious without upsetting placements for daggerboard, rig COE, akas and amas. Perhaps take the rear half of the main hull and extend that back further to create a crew / stow space behind the rear aka, possibly moving rear aka forward slightly to make 2 clear cockpit spaces. Does weight distribution become an issue too on such a small boat?

If taking a second person is only occasional it might be fine. It sure looks like a speedster for single-handed.

cheers, Dave

[upchurchmr]

Dave,

Multihulls are much more weight distribution sensitive if you want to sail quickly. In Hobie cats, too much weight aft will flip you backward during a tack. now that is embarrassing.

Looks like either Frank Smoot got to the folding idea first, or he just published first. Frank did say he didn't care about such things, he just wanted to share his ideas. Not throwing stones at anyone.

Does weight distribution become an issue too on such a small boat?

If taking a second person is only occasional it might be fine. It sure looks like a speedster for single-handed.

cheers, Dave

[upchurchmr]

Strike 15. I had really hoped this would be more like a beach sailing cat. The Hobie 16 has ~190 sq feet of sail. this has ~120 sq feet without the screacher. The beam is the same as a Tornado.

More extreme is what I hoped for.
Sorry Richard.

[Chris Ostlind]

...Looks like either Frank Smoot got to the folding idea first, or he just published first....

The business of folding a tri from aft to fore has been around a long time. You can see it in its polished state in the Dragonfly boats from Quorning. http://www.dragonfly.dk/
The foldo maneuver in which the amas are brought back from the bow to a locked position is seen in the Antrim designed A30+, Erin, complete with angled, lifting, ama mounted foils: http://www.antrimdesign.com/trimarans/erin/

After diddling around both on paper, with models, in fabricated boats, and studying the genre, I'm at the point where pretty much every single collapsing strategy has already been tried many times, by many boat designers the world over.

[Chris Ostlind]

...The Hobie 16 has ~190 sq feet of sail.

The Hobie 16 beach cat has 218 sq. ft. of sail area. http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/hobie-16/

[Dan St Gean]

The Hobie 16 beach cat has 218 sq. ft. of sail area. http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/hobie-16/

It really is tough for small tris to get the SA/Displacement of a competitive beachcat. One could do a really powerful tri for sure, but it'll weigh more than the M20 or similar really hot cat. After a bit though, how much righting moment do 'ya need? Fully trapped out a 10' cat has a lot of righting moment. I think the tri is a bit more sedate in most of the renditions seen thus far compared to the Tornado, F18, or M20 types. However, beachcruising on one of those hot cats isn't much fun especially solo. Rather than make the comparisons to big monster racing machines, the better comparison might be something like an A cat on the performance side of the equation or something that can take a bit of weight like the Hobie Getaway on the other side. Moving that comparison over to the small trimaran genre, a boat like Randy's Sizzors or SOS and Sandy Bottom's tri Mosquito might be the performance edge of small trimarans (and Chris' Europa if one gets built) or the Windrider 17, Strike 16 & 18 on the trimaran side of things. j

Although Richard's forthcoming Strike 15 isn't a Hobie 16 in sail area, it might be instructive to see how it stacks up to other similar craft being marketed right now, the Ninja tri (or outrigger!) and the Weta. The Weta was 2010's dingy of the year from Sailing World. It sports a dingy like hull and reasonably small amas and the following specs:
Specifications of the WETA trimaran

Length (LOA) 4.4 m ~ 14.4 ft
Beam – rigged 3.5 m ~ 11.5 ft
Beam – on trailer 1.7 m ~ 5.6 ft
Weight – main hull 60 kg ~ 132 lbs
Weight – float w/ beam frame 18 kg ~ 40 lbs
Weight – rigged, total Approx. 100 kg ~ 220 lbs
Sail area – main 8.3 m2 ~ 89.4 ft2
Sail area – jib 3.2 m2 ~ 34.5 ft2
Sail area – gennaker 8.0 m2 ~ 86.1 ft2

So it's a 220ish # tri with roughly 125 squares of upwind sail area.


The Ninja Spider specs:

Length	4,50 m
Beam trimaran	3,70 m
Beam proa	3,00 m
Weight trimaran	115 kg
Weight proa	95 kg
Main sail	8,7 m²
Jib	2,7 m²
Screecher	10 m²
Height of mast	7 m

How's that look now compared to the Strike 15? Will it play with the F18's? Nope. That's OK though, as I'm looking for a beachcruiser rather than a ragged edge racer for my idea of a solo+ machine.

Richard upped the weight capacity a bit which is fantastic! He wrote, "Glad you like the Strike 15. As you know, I am still working on the final details.

In part due to your prompting I recently tweaked the lines plan again to add a bit more displacement. So it now has about 30mm more draft, is slightly wider on the WL and a new displacement to WL of 305kgs, an increase of about 40kgs. That should now have the boat floating on its marks with two average sized crew on board. Obviously the boat can float deeper than that (ie carry more load) without problems, it will be a bit slower that's all. And that is assuming the boat is completely upright, obviously as it heels some displacement will be taken by the outriggers. Hope that's good news for you."

Richard Woods

This now fits right in with my solo + idea. Additionally, to make a super simple option available, "The other thing I want to do is have to option of fitting a Laser rig for those who want a really simple boat. From my sketches it looks feasible, of course the mast will have to be fitted through the deck and further forward. I need to check a few measurements but it should work."

Richard Woods


Naturally this isn't going to be a beachcat killer...but neither is the Ninja or the Weta. Instead they are 10+ knot fun machines capable of doing a bit of costal exploring. The small beachcruising opportunities are really looking up! Not only has Richard now released three little tris, but he put out a new small cat as well. Other designers are taking note too like the Waters W17, the Mark G series and many others. Not too shabby for the small multihull enthusiast!

Dan

[wtarzia]

The Hobie 16 beach cat has 218 sq. ft. of sail area. http://www.hobiecat.com/sailboats/hobie-16/

--- Yow! I didn't know that. No wonder everybody goes so quickly.... -- Wade

[Dan St Gean]

My H18 has 240 squares and that's nowhere near as fast as a Tornado, F18, F16, or any other modern design. Lots has happened in the last 30 years, but it's still amazing how much they got right with stuff like the Tornado. If I were to go with a cat for a design rather than the little tri, it would be something like an old wooden tornado at 8'6" beam mainsail only and centerboard cases adjusted to match the new CE. Footwells for sitting facing forward when it's too light to need to trap, Hobie 18 style wings for stronger conditions, reefability to not need to trap if I didn't want to, maybe a bit more freeboard to allow the footwells to be self bailing, maybe a wishbone boom to eliminate the need for the traveller to some degree and simplify a bit, and an off the wind spin of some sort. Actually this is lots like an 16 or 16 square isn't it. Footwells, freeboard, reefing, and wings would make it a beachcruiser.

Dan

[Dan St Gean]

--- Yow! I didn't know that. No wonder everybody goes so quickly.... -- Wade

One simple speed formula is SA/D the H16 has 218/320lbs=74.55, but no one sails it at bare boar weight. Outfitted with a competitive (class minimum 285#) it works out to 48.76. Most multis don't really use this number though as there are better performance indicators available for cats. However, it still gives you a baseline "horsepower" idea. The H18 comes out to 49.42. The Weta and Ninja would come out lots lower reflecting both their weight and sail area. Lots of other factors come into play, but light and powerful is always going to be faster than heavy and underpowered. I have now mastered the obvious and will slink back into my hole.

Dan

[Dan St Gean]

Here's an update about the strike 15.

Richard Woods writes, "Realistically plans won't be available until, say, August

The Strike 15 needs 4 sheets 4mm ply, 1 sheet 6mm ply and 3 sheets 3mm plus timber and epoxy

As you know I have dinghy sailed for years. I decided that even when sailing two up that a mainsail over about 10sqm would be too big for many people. So I drew a rig based roughly on that size rather than go to the extreme of a B14.

I'm still pondering the outriggers. Looking at similar designs I think that the Weta outriggers are too far aft, and the Ninja ones are too fine. So I have drawn bigger volume outriggers set further forward than either of those boats

The cockpit is over 6ft long and with an aft mainsheet there will be lots of room for two people. Probably a "gnav" will be used instead of a kicking strap. Mind you, as I've said before the Strike 16 is for people who take out "passengers". So I expect both crew on a Strike 15 to be sailors."

[Dan St Gean]

Another little tri bit is that the www.outrig.org site did an interview with Frank Smoot and Jim Brown that's interesting to listen to. It's also available on www.smalltrimarans.com

Dan

[DavePont]

A new blog entry at Small Trimarans well worth a read:
http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=7908

Take a second hand small mono hull, remove keel , add Hobie hulls as amas = instant small tri. Tres cool.

Follow the link to the builders site.

He is based near Bordeaux - so another flood of memories for me: Arcachon, Cap Ferret, dune du Pyla, Sanguinet, Le Teich - all places I have been, but NOT in a boat. So I've added that to the bucket list.

[JimD]

A new blog entry at Small Trimarans well worth a read:
http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=7908

Take a second hand small mono hull, remove keel , add Hobie hulls as amas = instant small tri. Tres cool.

Follow the link to the builders site.

He is based near Bordeaux - so another flood of memories for me: Arcachon, Cap Ferret, dune du Pyla, Sanguinet, Le Teich - all places I have been, but NOT in a boat. So I've added that to the bucket list.

Gotta say I'm liking this. I've had the same idea for my 15 foot daysailer and if I find a really cheap second hand Hobie I still might.

[DavePont]

Plans for a couple of small tris announced:

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=8063

The designers website is here:

http://www.bcademco.it/file/piani-multiscafi_eng.htm

The Tricky Five design (aimed to be most speed per build $) has integrated, low aspect, keels on the amas! So this idea keeps popping up in the small tri world. I was having doubts about the viability of that idea, but designers sure seem to like it. I just wonder if it really 'works'? Anyway I'm adopting this idea for my dream small tri...

cheers, Dave

[keyhavenpotterer]

Reading John Harris's blog on development of a MK III CLC version of their kayak sail rig, there is a mention of a new small trimaran in development. 15'9" long in stitch and tape it's designed for 15 knots. No release date yet, prototype testing first. http://www.clcboats.com/life-of-boat...iling-rig.html


What a terrific little boat!
Brian

[upchurchmr]

Without a proposed rig this is really a teaser.
How to trailer would matter to most.
This could be great to so-so depending on the sailarea.
Do you think it could take a Hobie 16 rig?
Without a sitting out bench it is not going to take very much sail area.
Is this a Kit built Frank Smoot tri without folding - so far?

Looking forward to more details

[Chris Ostlind]

Without John's specs, I'd be guessing, but from the indicated diameter of those aka tubes and the likelihood that they are aluminum to keep costs and labor to a minimum, I'd estimate that this boat will probably be using something like a rig from a Hobie 14 Turbo at 148 sq. ft. of area. This should yield a decently quick day sailing tri. I'd be inclined to install a set of swept spreaders from a Hobie 18 mast to stiffen the rig because this boat will have more righting moment than will an H14T.

There are tons of old beach cat trailers out in the world that can be had for a song... some even free, to the clever dude who makes the pitch that he'll get it out of the owners yard without hassle, or expense, for the guy who wants it gone. A few properly sized bunks and/or cradles later and you have yourself an easily towed item that can be dragged around by even a compact ride.

[keyhavenpotterer]

I think the perfect rig for this CLC ultralight car topable tri is one like Solway dory use on their tri's. Very light, very easy to make, very easy to reef, very easy to keep balanced.


Brian

[Dan St Gean]

No new photos of tris, but I did get a chance to talk at length with Frank Smoot of www.diy-tris.com Nice guy and althought the weather didn't cooperate to go for a sail, it was interesting to see what he's up to with his small trimarans. He's currently got three small fully rigged trimarans and they are pretty cool. He's planning a 24' tri either in a 4 panel hull shape of a three panel shape with a shaped foam bottom and a cat ketch or schooner rig.

Most interesting is his build methods. 3mm, Pl premium fillets, outside glass, two coats of varnish inside, and a coat or two of house paint outside. I was intrigued by his build method, which is based on some cardboard models or hobby store balsa.

Dan

[Dan St Gean]

Interesting post of the Strike 15 over at both www.sailingcatamarans.com and www.smalltrimarans.com Plans are now available at 100 pounds. I might have to get a set!

Dan

[DavePont]

The Strike 15 is indeed interesting. Meanwhile what is Kevin up to a wikiproa ? - uploading tantalising pics of a semi-secret build....

[FleetPeet]

Hi Guys,


Im designing a trimaran to seat two people. Im basically designing the main hull around the idea of a Hobie16 s single hull with seats ontop and and ama on each side. Im leaning toward a sitontop hull unless there is a real reason to make it a sit in. The amas are my puzzle here. Im looking to have 100 sq. ft of sail and a nice high end speed around 10 to 13 knots in a good blow. For the 16' long main hull thats 25" deep at the bow, tapering to 18" deep at the stern, Im looking at amas 13feet long and 12" deep.

Does this sound on the money? I have no intention of throwing 200 sq. ft of sail on this rig. I am not working this out on a computer program but Im happy if someone has that kno-how.

Thanks in advance guys!!!!


Pete

[obscured by clouds]

FYI a hobie 16 hull is assymetric, and kinda narrow with not much volume

[Tom the rower]

I have been quite interested in both trimarans and proas for quite some time and have talked with Frank Smoot alot, but would like to bring attention to the thread about the Triak, a purpose built trimaran/kayak blend. 18 ft, roller furling main, snuffable spinnaker, sit inside, looks like a star wars vehicle. I have been sailing mine for about a week now, and even though we have been having a summer doldrums and a fickle western wind, I still achieved 10.1 kts. You don't get wet, you can possibly take a small small passenger, but at least one person is training in theirs for the next EC and will be doing the much easier north carolina challenge in his triak. He has a youtube video showing all the expedition gear being packed in the dry storage area. All in all, it is a pretty cool starter trimaran. The wife wants to sail with me, so I am still going to make my own. I really am thinking of doing 1/8 inch plywood sides, 24 inches tall, 24 ft long, factory to factory butt blocks with biaxle tape, flat bottom made from 1/4 inch ply, two balanced lug sails. Throw it together, use Frank's instant deploy amas. Something like that. Anyway, sorry to digress, but look at the Triak.

Tom

[upchurchmr]

FleetPeet,

The Hobie 16 is the last hull you want for the main hull. The 16 is asymmetric (flat on the outside surface and curved on the inside) and has low volume to support your weight. Because it is asymmetric it will tend to turn when you want it to go straight. A symmetric hull will be useful if it is big enough. Try a Hobie 18, Nacra 5.2 or bigger, Tornado (20 feet might be too big) or an old Sol Cat (probably hard to find). The Nacra would be my choice.

You might check out the boat here: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/gu...er16/index.htm

[smallyachtsailor]

I'm new at this forum. Old at building small boats. If I've done this right a picture of my 10' 4" trimaran (cartoppable) is posted too. Very interesting thread, and I'll have to look through the small trimaran blog too. I'm currently planning a larger (14') trimaran and/or a tacking proa. I may even build both if I can find the energy. I have experience with trimarans and like how they tack. How about proas? I want a boat that can tack reliably because I often sail in crowded waters. Here's my question: All other things being equal, how does a tacking proa compare to a trimaran as far as maneuvering is concerned? On one hand I like tacking my small tri because the amas balance each other and leave the water for much of the tacking maneuver. How would it do if I left one ama off--a tacking proa. I don't like the idea of a shunting proa for narrow waters. Should I bother building the second ama or just leave it off and go with a proa instead of a trimaran?

Ok, the picture didn't get posted, but I have some old pics at www.msc.wildlifeofct.com

[upchurchmr]

Small Yacht guy,

Very nice workmanship.
On the 10' is that an adjustable mast base fwd of the mast? I see a slot in the deck I don't understand.
Glad to see the centerboard, can you give us a report on the sailing qualities and the dimensions? Any idea how fast it goes for a given wind and course.

Sorry I'm full of it today because I am thinking about building a 14-16 ft SOF and want to suck up everything that's available.

Are you happy with the double ended main hull on the big boat (I just saw the transom on the 10' and edited this)? Any thoughts about putting a transom on the back to straighten out the flow lines?

Welcome to the forum.

There is a discussion in the CLCboats.com forum about a guy how tried both tacking proa and tri on the same hull. You might also look for Wade Tarsia who has discussed his 16' tacking Proa, "Short Dragon".
Also check out this thread if you haven't already seen it: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...d-proa-thread/ . Just for fun you might look at the thread: slickest folder ever.

All that says I have never sailed a proa. Let us know how what you find.

Marc

[smallyachtsailor]

Marc,

Thanks for the welcome. This little tri was an experiment that's evolved over time. The slot in the foredeck was there because I wanted to be able to move the mast to balance the boat, but lo-and-behold, I got it exactly right the first time. So I later filled in the slot to keep out some of the spray.

The C/B definitely is a big help even though it's only about 2' deep by 1' chord. I can go to windward without it, but not very well. I never intended it to be anything more than a "get out on the water" lazy boat, but it sails as fast as most boats it's length, and maybe faster than many. It tends to outrun its stern wave and the stern drops in the trough. Moving my weight forward helps a lot downwind. Unfortunately I have no more specific speed data. However, at about 60-70 lbs total weight (plus my 180) it'll reach hull speed quickly in somewhere between a 5-10 mph breeze. Handles great too, not much weight in the ends or amas to slew around. The amas weigh about 10-15 lbs. Just a fun boat to get out on the water, but now I want some more speed--spent much of my youth sailing an old Penguin (usually solo) and I miss the speed, don't miss trying to keep the thing flat on the water (never really could alone).

My new tri will have a transom--more of an increase in volume aft to keep the stern up at speed. I'm considering the advantages/disadvantages of a proa before I commit to build, or might build a proa too, but I do like trimarans. Thanks for the link to the proa thread, I'll take a look.

[FleetPeet]

FleetPeet,

The Hobie 16 is the last hull you want for the main hull. The 16 is asymmetric (flat on the outside surface and curved on the inside) and has low volume to support your weight. Because it is asymmetric it will tend to turn when you want it to go straight. A symmetric hull will be useful if it is big enough. Try a Hobie 18, Nacra 5.2 or bigger, Tornado (20 feet might be too big) or an old Sol Cat (probably hard to find). The Nacra would be my choice.

You might check out the boat here: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/gu...er16/index.htm

I have no intention of making the hull assymetric. What I dont understand is why you would think the Hobie 16 is too low a volume to support two people when two people can fly an rama on that rig leaving the weight of the two passengers PLUS the weight of the airborne ama all bearing down on the wet ama. If it were too low a volume surely the thing would pitchpole or submarine. Im not understanding your judgements here.

Thanks in advance.

Pete

[JimD]

I'm new at this forum. Old at building small boats. If I've done this right a picture of my 10' 4" trimaran (cartoppable) is posted too. Very interesting thread, and I'll have to look through the small trimaran blog too. I'm currently planning a larger (14') trimaran and/or a tacking proa. I may even build both if I can find the energy. I have experience with trimarans and like how they tack. How about proas? I want a boat that can tack reliably because I often sail in crowded waters. Here's my question: All other things being equal, how does a tacking proa compare to a trimaran as far as maneuvering is concerned? On one hand I like tacking my small tri because the amas balance each other and leave the water for much of the tacking maneuver. How would it do if I left one ama off--a tacking proa. I don't like the idea of a shunting proa for narrow waters. Should I bother building the second ama or just leave it off and go with a proa instead of a trimaran?

Ok, the picture didn't get posted, but I have some old pics at www.msc.wildlifeofct.com

Good job!

[upchurchmr]

FleetPeet,

The hull will hold the people and the boat. But the waterline will be very high up on the side of the hull. The slightest fwd tipping of the hull due to sail pressure will cause it to trip over the bow - have you ever seen a "pitchpole" capsize? Check out this - a bigger boat, but the same problem - look at the video in post #18. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...owtopic=136500 There ought to be lots on Youtube. If you use the Hobie 16 as the main hull (hope I didn't get that wrong) you don't have any choice in making the hull asymmetric, it already is.

Have fun.

Marc

I have no intention of making the hull assymetric. What I dont understand is why you would think the Hobie 16 is too low a volume to support two people when two people can fly an rama on that rig leaving the weight of the two passengers PLUS the weight of the airborne ama all bearing down on the wet ama. If it were too low a volume surely the thing would pitchpole or submarine. Im not understanding your judgements here.

Thanks in advance.

Pete

[smallyachtsailor]

Thanks much JimD! I'll figure out this forum eventually. I clicked the "insert image" button and it let me pick an image, but then...nothing.

Anyway, its a fun little boat, and I'm working on the design of a much faster 14-foot tri now--hope to build this winter. Lots of great ideas in this thread.

[JimD]

Thanks much JimD! I'll figure out this forum eventually. I clicked the "insert image" button and it let me pick an image, but then...nothing.

Anyway, its a fun little boat, and I'm working on the design of a much faster 14-foot tri now--hope to build this winter. Lots of great ideas in this thread.

After clicking on the insert image icon, you'll see a box that looks something like this (but not quite) Then

1 click 'From URL',
2 Paste the photo's URL in the line provided.
3 Remove a check mark in 'Retrieve remote file and reference locally' before posting.
4 Click OK
Nothing tells you to remove this check mark but you can't post the photo url unless you do.

From ComputerFrom URL

Add an Image from Url Allowed Filetypes: jpg, jpeg, png, gif URL Retrieve remote file and reference locally

[smallyachtsailor]

Thanks Jim--there's always a trick involved to thwart the new guys. Now to build a new boat so I can try posting a pic...

[Dan St Gean]

Here's a real litle tri that seems right on.

[JimD]

Here's a real litle tri that seems right on.

I like that one, too. Very simple and sails well enough.

[FleetPeet]

I shouldve clarified better, Im not getting a Hobie hull literally, but designing a main hull *somewhat* like the hull in size and carrying capacity. Moreover the rig will never have 200 sq. ft of sail driving it. Im guessing 100 the more I think about it with a minimum of 80 or 70 sq.ft. to at least begin sailing with it. Itll never pitchpole. Of that Im sure. I USED to have dreams of a craft that'd do 20 knots , and even 15. Ive rethought that however as designs aside, the sheer water volume in your face, again and again and again. Oh come on. Even hiked out on a flying cat, your getting hosed. Something that can have a sweet spot between 7 to 12 knots is my goal. If I can get it with my 80 to 100 sq.ft. sail all the better. Its still wet, and thats a blast but its not as brutal as faster craft that I used to love.

Thanks for the advice . Ill post more on it as it comes along.

Pete

[smallyachtsailor]

FleetPeet,

The 14' tri design I'm working on for car-top will have about 100 sq. ft. of sail--I have the same idea as you. I want something easy to handle yet fairly fast--but not a racer. On the plus side, my trimaran will only weigh in the neighborhood of 150 lbs (empty), so 100 sq. ft. ought to get it moving rather quickly. A fun boat that's not your typical sloggy daysailer.

[FleetPeet]

Here's an update about the strike 15.

Richard Woods writes, "Realistically plans won't be available until, say, August

The Strike 15 needs 4 sheets 4mm ply, 1 sheet 6mm ply and 3 sheets 3mm plus timber and epoxy

Da
n the 3mm ply is for the amas? If so are the completely 3mm or just the upper panels with lower panels being 4mm?

Pete

[FleetPeet]

FleetPeet,

The 14' tri design I'm working on for car-top will have about 100 sq. ft. of sail--I have the same idea as you. I want something easy to handle yet fairly fast--but not a racer. On the plus side, my trimaran will only weigh in the neighborhood of 150 lbs (empty), so 100 sq. ft. ought to get it moving rather quickly. A fun boat that's not your typical sloggy daysailer.

Funny how cats and tris lend the "sloggy" notion of monohulls. It simply takes more wind to power beamy squat monohulls however. There are exceptions to a degree but the multihull advantage stands.

The 100sq.ft. sail area to weight ratio sound impressive. Im overdesigning my hull structure to handle double the sail loading in the event I want to power up more than I initially plan. I never want anything to come apart in a beta experimental way. If its a little heavier, so be it.

Post pics as you move along. Ill post mine as things come together.


Pete

[smallyachtsailor]

I understand building extra strength in if you're considering upping the sail area at some time. All of my boats are very light and I love how they behave (perform?) in the water because of their low mass. I really think the extra performance you get from reducing the overall weight of a boat is often underestimated.

I'm trying to finalize the design so I can get started with the building this fall, hoping to dip it in the water by spring--but of course well-planned projects oft' go awry. I do plan on setting my half-built sailing canoe aside to make room and time for the trimaran. If I get stuff done to take pics of I'll try to post...good luck on yours too Pete