Check out the programming before commenting .http://www.sbs.com.au/Originally Posted by TANSTAF1
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Check out the programming before commenting .http://www.sbs.com.au/
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
That partnership between President Ron Reagan and Colonel Ollie North down in the White House basement lead to some mighty fine policy in global weapons sales and warfare.
Our military and the politicians who feed it is a machine that'll eventually suck up all the resources left in this country. History provides excellent examples of the expense of the "better ones". Politics and the military are inseperable when it comes to the period of decimation.
Study Peace
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
This thread happily mixes "American politics" and "American government" with health dollops of "American culture".
American politics has long been a three ringed circus of clowns, gun shooting horse riders, strongmen, pretty girls, and dancing bears. As a conservative, I'm often dismayed at how the Republican party right now is particularly full of sound and fury signifying nothing, but this too shall pass. The Democrats had their turn in the center ring circa 1968-1988.
American government, in its Republic form from local to state to national operates pretty well most places. It could be a lot better.
Anyone who wants to comment on "American culture" has never lived or traveled extensively here. The US is a bunch of cultures...who knows how many. And I'd wager that TV and movies are as reflective of actual US culture as other nations' entertainment output reflects on their actual culture...not very. If there's one thing discouraging to me, it's the micro-segmenting of electronic culture in the U.S. (and presumably elsewhere). I know a fair number of people who rely on Huffington Post and TPM and Slate and Fox News to tell them how to sneer at people who don't "think right" and are controlled by the media. For now I find that irony delicious, soon I will find it disturbing.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Cedric, extrapolating the attitudes of two chauvinistic individuals to 300million is a bit of a stretch but you do bring up a worthwhile topic about the concept of "exporting democracy". Not sure where that concept came from but it's got to be one of the more flawed bits of propaganda around.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
at least WBF and LeeValley catalog is in the mix
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I don't know enough about Australian politics to make an knowledgeable evaluation.
Is the programming done under a fairness doctrine regulation, whereby differing views must have equal time? How much of a differing view does a view need in order to qualify? I.e., would a Ron Paulist 5 - 10% minority get say 33% of the time if there were just three differing views?
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I am still waiting to hear how we "export" democracy. Again other than infrequent anecdotal examples I don't think we are except perhaps in the aftermath of wars that we "won" (WWII, Iraq and Afghanistan).
Last edited by TANSTAF1; 04-09-2012 at 06:50 AM.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
It's one of many reasons used to justify occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. By turning these countries into some form of democracy they will be like us and not hate us for our freedoms, so they don't send terrists up the Rio Grande, lather, rinse repeat. We don't export democracy, that's why I'm calling it propaganda.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Lol. Lee Valley is nothing but a Canadian propaganda machine determined to put good tools in our hands.
Diogenes disciple
Re: The view of American politics from outside
The issue with many of my fellow Americans is that they are shamefully ignorant of what happens outside our borders, which leads to a boorish contempt for the opinions of mankind.
Our ideals are noble, but alas the reality is considerably uglier.
Gerard>
Everett, WA
Il colore del cielo, la forza del mare.
Bonehunter
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Korea. Lebanon. Dominican Republic. Vietnam. Grenada. Beirut. Libya. Panama. Somalia. Haiti. Yugoslavia. Afghanistan. Philippines. And that's just the overt military action; add in the covert spooky stuff like Chile and the list gets a lot longer.
Trying to be reasonable
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Minor point: folks generally give the US way too much blame or credit, take your pick, for Pinochet's coup in 1973. We may have encouraged him, but it was mostly a home-grown Chilean thing.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
for nature cannot be fooled."
Richard Feynman
Bonehunter
Re: The view of American politics from outside
From what I've read, the CIA and the US government were quite involved in setting the stage via critical shortages, demonstrations, and quiet guarantees of support, but that could admittedly be a one-sided account.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
American politics: a slow spiral downwards since the end of the Cold War, in discourse and practice.
Periodically, American government has become disfunctional. It seems to be its natural state, only counterbalanced by Americans' tendency to unite when faced with external enemies, real or imagined. I believe things were much worse during, say, the late 19th century.
America as an example of democracy: I used to think of it as such; democracy, invented in Athens, perfected in America for all to copy. Now I see how rigidly dogmatic its brand of democracy is, and how hard to rid of ancient privilege. Major shortcomings, both.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Orca, did you overlook Iran? They threw the shah out, the CIA put him back in. Oops, forgot the bay of pigs. Tanstaf1 this is all in books they call them history books. You can buy or borrow them.
Last edited by Boater14; 04-08-2012 at 02:01 PM.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
If we were silly enough to have a Paulist Party here , yes they would get air time .The last time we had a faintly similar phenomenon it had plenty of exposure .This an archive of recent public discussions on SBS , one of the public broadcasters, the better one in my opinion. Not just 2 talking heads but a large number of interested public and a few"experts" .
http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/archive
You can watch online here .http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/
I assure you public broadcasting can be excellent, just because you don't like the US version don't assume it can't be done very well.
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
These threads are pretty much the same.
Australians, Canadians, Brits, New Zea lenders,Europeans, Find some point wrong with America to post how bad we suck.
Every Liberal gets excited and worked up and joins in to tell how much we suck...
Every Hollywood movie is based on how much we suck.
Ever notice its the CIA, Oil Company's, FBI, Nixon they write about and then make a movie cause they can tell the world how much we suck.
Notice you NEVER see a lib get defensive when some foreigner. sez how much we suck.
Every RINO or fence sitter also gets worked up to say how much we suck.
The Only people that actually believe in America are conservatives.
I can see why Obama travels and bows down to every tin pot dictator and is hailed as a great man.
He Believes we suck to..
Odd the Government has been majority Democratic and they insist we Suck..
This gets very tiresome after awhile...
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
bobbys, your analysis sucks
Boats on the brain 24/7
Re: The view of American politics from outside
You have soooo missed the point of this thread. Defensive much?
Nosce te ipsum
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
On the left we ask a candidate if I vote for you, what will you do for my family. On the right they ask about bashing gays, gun rights, jesus Christ, while their teeth rot and they tie up their mufflers with a coat hanger. The day we get the south to vote their own welfare is the day the reeps fold their tents. My daughter is in college and still on my healthcare. As yourself what did strom Thurmond do for me?
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
If you think NPR is equivalent to fox your not listing to npr......really your not......you're lying if say you listen to NPR.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Congratulations, bobbys, this is your most brainless and least coherent post to date...and that took some doing!
Your analysis is full of untruths, half-truths, and outright gibberish!
Try to do better!
"This gets very tiresome after awhile..."
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
.
I can do better, i had to tone it down a bit, Still anytime i get 3 ad hominy's from libs a angel gets his wings!
Boats on the brain 24/7
Re: The view of American politics from outside
bobbys, instead of playing the ad hominem card as the wounded conservative party, how about you join in?
Objectively look at and evaluate the American political system and voice your opinion on how and where it may have failed. You can be objective can't you? I think you can do it. It's not a sign of weakness or in any way unpatriotic to talk about how your country can do better.
Nosce te ipsum
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
America seems to rely on three rules,
(1) Might is right.
(2) US law proclutudes all else.
(3) When the law is inconvienient, ignore it.
You Americans sat on the fence, profIting from BOTH sides till you were forced into action. You damned hyprocrates. Don`t you dare to tell me you won any war, any Comonwealth country will edcucate you Yanks.
Apply here.
Cheers, Dumah,
Halifax, NS
Sanity is optional, but by no means necessary
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
.
I see your point but my problem is if you read this thread its a bitch session.
When was the last time Any person Not American started a Pro America thread?..
Its a bit like if I had a wife and all my friends told me how ugly she is, what a terrible cook she is, How she runs around on me And brings up every bad thing she did while she was with me and before.
I object and then im asked to only talk about these things.
Hey I love the gal., She brings me Pizza and Beer..
At some point i have to realize these "friends" mean us no good..
And I never Question their goils even though their covered with warts, are pleasingly plump, never stop talking about themselves and how great they are.
So the conversation is My gal is bad Yours are good lets keep talking about my goil so we never have to examine yours.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Oh, bobbys, I feel guilty laughing at the feeble and the deranged and the persecuted, but I'm LMAO
Boats on the brain 24/7
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I have read the thread and I'm seeing a discussion and not a bitch session. The thing of it is, had the OP been "The view of Canadian politics from the outside", I don't think any of use Canadians would be crying foul. Though I suspect we would have become bored of agreeing on the ways our system has failed us and the thread never would have made it to three pages.To quote Cromwell... "Warts and all".
Nosce te ipsum
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Get over yourself Bobbys, America, in the last 60 years has been nothing but a world bully. America did NOT win WW2, without Canadian responsibility for, not only North Atlantic convoys, but also oil convoys from South America the war could NOT continue without the supplies arriving timingly. Yes, without American involment the war in Europe would have taken longer, but the Comonwealth would have prevailed. Without a secure supply chain the war was lost. I ask you who was responsible for covering, as escorts, for Great Britians basic, as well as the military effort past 1941?
check the record.
Cheers, Dumah,
Halifax, NS
Sanity is optional, but by no means necessary
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
.Oh, bobbys, I feel guilty laughing at the feeble and the deranged and the persecuted, but I'm LMAO
You Poisoned the well in post 3 and i have had to overcome it since!
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
.
I need to "get over myself" because of your Convoy claim?.
I do not remember having stated a opinion on this.
There are all sorts of American Sins lurking about being brought out of the vaults.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Heheh! Your efforts to "overcome it" have been unnecessary, lame, and counter-productive...notice my "winky" in post #3?
Not only do you beat dead horses, you also beat horses that have never existed outside your own mind!
Last edited by Glen Longino; 04-09-2012 at 12:16 AM.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Sorry Bobbys, I have NO resprect, nor intrest in anything that desparages any, and all contributions to any war effort. I will stand my ground that that the 'murricans sold to BOTH sides, it is a matter of record. You did not win any war., this is also a matter of record. In the war of 1812, you yanks tried for Quebec, and lost there, tried York [(today Tronto) should have let you have it]. We Canucks returned the favour by burning your "Whitehouse", how do you l8ike us now?....................................lol
Cheers, Dumah
Halifax, NS
Sanity is optional, but by no means necessary
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Me and the wife went to Quebec on holiday in the 70s.
We were on a tour and the guide was speaking French tawk..
Going by memory it was overlooking a river by a fort?
Now My wife studied French and can speak it and was translating for me.
He said here is where we got the SOBs and gave it to em...
The French speakers in the audience had a good laugh.
Kinda funny really i never heard of that.
Well you can bet my tips were on the low side like Glenn's there after that!.
However i raised the tips back up after everyone there liked the fact we were from jersey.
Seemed people there vacation at the Jersey shore.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Bobby, have you ever wondered what your political process looks like to the world outside? As for being persecuted by the foreigners, appreciate that when you are the biggest, baddest kid on the block people take note of everything about you, good and bad .
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
The rest of the world used to blame the British Empire for everything, now it's the US's turn especially seeing that the Soviet Union has gone and the US needs to feed it's MIC. But take some encouragement, soon enough it may be China's turn to take the heat.
# 7727
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Since all my ancestors were Europeans (some not so long ago), I am well aware there is a world out beyond US shores coniderably different from my own. My problem is I am stuck with whatever regime gets elected and I don't want to spend all my time alibiing for it. None the less, America for all it's dominance has done conciderable beneficial work in my lifetime which I would like to see thrown in the balance when judgements are made. If America didn't exist at the moment the world would be a much messier place.
There is one foreign situation that troubles me. How did Rupert Murdoch come to dominate British politics and why aren't he and his henchmen in jail yet?
Last edited by Cuyahoga Chuck; 04-09-2012 at 06:28 PM.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Entirely correct.IMHO it's because the country is too big both in size and population.
Historically you had too many fingers in the pie from too many different cultures too early.
It destabilises when there's too many entrepreneurs given free reign over the locals and land without adequate communications and regulations.
North America was settled by the equivalent of the hoards from the steppes and has maintained that sort of frontier conquerors mentality. Too many enemies to fight over one piece.
You do not have the same sense of cohesiveness that white NZ an Australians had with just the locals to deal with.
The USA only feels like they are one when another enemy rears it's head. and when there isn't one, your gov manufactures one. thus you do serfdom pretty well IMHO.
Sorry
No offence to Purri and other first nationers.
America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I've said this for some time now.
America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
When you think of a European Federation, the prohibition of hereditary titles and the separation of church and state do not leap to mind. But I'm tellin' ya, leave 'em out and you'll be sorry.
America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I would say it has worked out that way to a great extent, though I don't see the separate documents angle.
Amendments are slow in coming unless they deal with a new subject like the vote for women. The original amendments remain because the debate is so intense about what they meant in the first place. So there are no amendments to the amendments. But it's not the mechanism at fault, it's the culture wars. For better or worse, the constitution has prevented civil war, mostly.
America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
Old Grey Inquisitive One
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Functions
The Supreme Court has two fundamental functions. On the one hand, it must interpret and expound all congressional enactments brought before it in proper cases; in this respect its role parallels that of the state courts of final resort in making the decisive interpretation of state law. On the other hand, the Supreme Court has power (superseding that of all other courts) to examine federal and state statutes and executive actions to determine whether they conform to the U.S. Constitution.
Read more: United States Supreme Court: Functions — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/histor...#ixzz1rZG7z7sc
Which supports my contention that your system is unable to respond to the changing needs of society as rapidly as our set of individual laws and statutes. Any of which can be relatively easily amended or repealed at need.
It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Peerie Maa, I think you may be missing something which is understandable because it basically never happens, which is this: there's no need to wait on the Supreme Court's decision. There may be an amendment which gets there before he court does, as it were.
E.g. if there were a constitutional amendment allowing government to ban private handguns, there wouldn't be any debate about whether the "right to keep and bear arms" amounts to a guaranteed right of handgun ownership. All the historical squackery would be nipped in the bud, as it were.
Similarly, if there were an amendment guaranteeing the right to abortion, all the stuff about whether it is included in the right to privacy would be forestalled. Any constitutional question can be decided as broadly or as narrowly as desired, thus taking the decision out of the Supreme Court's hands.
So again, the system has mechanisms for reform, it's just that the people are much too divided to use them. The defect as you say is that the original words get older every day and have to be stretched pretty violently sometimes to cover modern circumstances.
America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
I'd say the GOP's point of view got high consideration, it just didn't get everything it wanted .
"politics is the art of compromise",http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_as_a_Vocation
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
It is impossible to be an American and travel abroad or talk to foreigners, withour being bombarded with opinions about what is wrong with America. I understand why people care. We're big, we're powerful, our actions have consequences outside our borders, as do our decisions not to act. People are willing to impart their most vitriolic feelings about my country to me, and demand I take responsibility for the actions of politicians I haven't voted for and don't approve of.
Having your country criticized by foreigners is apparently a new experience for you. Count your blessings.
On the trailing edge of technology.
http://www.scribd.com/johnmwatkins/documents
http://booksellersvsbestsellers.blogspot.com/
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Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
You're going to have to offer a translation mate, I don't speak your dialect .
Perfect is the enemy of good.
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Peter,
What he said was that all the Dems compromised with all the other Dems. The Dems did not "compromise" with a single solitary Republicna, not even a RINO. But then you knew that, right?
Recalcitrant Heretic
Re: The view of American politics from outside
TANSTAF1, the Dems abandoned key tenets of traditional Dem thinking on health insurance reform ... like some form of single-payer option (e.g. expanded Medicare or VA) in order to court Reps. Throwing away the centerpiece of essentially every effective universal program from around the world ... in order to meet the Reps halfway.
You have it exactly backwards.
Not a single solitary Republican (not even a RINO) compromised with the Dems ... because they wanted Obama "to fail." Vilifying the legacy of their soon-to-be Presidential Candidate in the process.
Say that funny thing again about Dems not compromising?
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Thanks for the chuckle. You're so far out of touch with reality, it's just amusing. And, since you've chosen to demonstrate this on a thread about how our country is seen from outside, you've managed to broadcast this fact world wide. Well done.
Now, Americans do want healthcare reform. Obama chose to push through what was really the plan Republicans had been pushing for about 20 years, and in fact, if Paul Ryan's plan for Medicare to turn into a system of vouchers to buy health insurance were put in place, it would only be workable with a mandate requiring Medicare recipients to buy health insurance, so the Republicans haven't given up on the plan entirely. I can think of no greater impetus for single payer than finding out that the solution represented by the market-based plan is unconstitutional or unworkable.
After all, Medicare is well liked and seen as a success. Medicare for everyone won't be such a tough sell after we've tried the market-based solution, should that solution fail. I fully expect that if the Supreme Court rules the Affordable Care Act unconstitutional, the next step for Democrats will be to push for Medicare for everyone.
Which would bring our system, roughly, into the mid-20th century.
On the trailing edge of technology.
http://www.scribd.com/johnmwatkins/documents
http://booksellersvsbestsellers.blogspot.com/
https://ssl-secure-server.net/cl/StoreNumber_2555/
Senior Member
Re: The view of American politics from outside
Thank you, Sir!
A very good post IMO!
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