Getting Salty an Traditional: real wood, no epoxy?

[Tim Marchetti]

I lined off the DSD for 5-strakes. The idea would be to build true dory style.


5-strake.1_persp by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr


5-strake.1_pro by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr

What do you think. Pretty salty? Or too refined?

Brilliant. You know you won't be disapointed but if you don't build it, it will haunt you forever.

[James McMullen]

Five strakes looks much better and will be much more practical to build using real wood.

And you know my take: the rounder and less hard chine-y you can make any dory, the more satisfied you will be.

[sailoar]

Very nice! Will the mizzenmast be stepped more or less at the base of the transom? If so, it seems there can be good solid mizzen sheeting without use of a boomkin. Will you develop plans for sale?

[Clinton B Chase]

Very nice! Will the mizzenmast be stepped more or less at the base of the transom? If so, it seems there can be good solid mizzen sheeting without use of a boomkin. Will you develop plans for sale?

Thanks for the feedback guys. James, my first hull has a slight round in the garboard (a knuckle), this one is straight. I was considering bringing it back since I may stick with the 5-strake. Once this dory lays on its side it is more round hulled than many. I keep the rocker to a minimum, though, which makes it row well. Actually, I was surprised how well it rowed.

The mizzen will go as aft as possible. A fore-aft tiller will be used on a rudder yoke. The first boat is built with rope steering, but the F&A tiller will provide more feel. My boat may only have a single 90 SF spritsail. But the mizzen is easy to add.

I have plans but for hull #1 (not for sale). This latest one will get drawn up at some point.

[neilm]

Nice options so far. When I think of Salty I think of a Swampscott Dory perhaps an Alpha Dory or one of the smaller ones illustrated in John Gardner's Dory book. Anything by Peter Culler or William Chamberlain would do. I also see lots of Wherrys in old photos so you can't go wrong there.

Neil

[Gib Etheridge]

Clint,

The forward end of the dory you are designing is remarkably similar to the dory I'm building right now. There is one big difference though, and that is that I chose to make mine symetrically double ended, and that raises a big question.
I'm not being in the least bit critical, you're golden as far as I'm concerned, but why did you chose to incorporate a transom rather than make it double ended? Do you see an advantage?

Another difference is that I strip build my planking, so it's easier to use wider planks. I like the look of 5 planks better though. The one in the photo here is to be 3 planks.

As far as plank stability is concerned, if you use AD CVG old growth WRC you won't have a problem, especially if you lay on a thin layer of glass inside and out of the bottom and on the outside of the garboard.

Here's the best photo I have of it at this point.

[Clinton B Chase]

Gib thanks for posting! I will likely use all wood for my dory but will not hesitate to use some modern adhesives for the bottom boards. I will likely edge glue up my bottom boards of cedar using G-flex and lightly sheath the wood...essentially I'll strip build the bottom. How narrow I will go will be the question. I'll make some calculations of movement resulting stresses and check that they are within g-flexes strength range. This will be irrelevant if I do use FG on bottom boards, which is not very traditional but is a balanced approach so I get a good boat for trailering to and from the water.

The GBD may be plywood (doug fir ply), but may still be solid. The rest of the strakes will certainly be solid wood, prob. WRC. The frames will all be WO. Transom, too.

I received Culler plans: Concordia Sloopboat and Otter. THe S'boat is fabulous. But no wonder the lofting is so tricky, he draws at a very small scale (i.e., the boat is only about 10" on paper)

[IanHowick]

Hi Clint,

I'd like to see an absolutely traditional build - half inch thick WRC planks, copper nails/rivets, no modern glues at all.

Something like this whaleboat in our Dunedin museum:



Could it be done? Are there any books on completely traditional lapstrake boat building? (Yes, I can see this boat isn't lapstrake) It seems to me these whaleboats were kept in similar situation to modern on a trailer boats - kept out of the water for long periods then launched in a hurry - I wonder how they managed that without the planks opening up.

Ian

[James McMullen]

It seems to me these whaleboats were kept in similar situation to modern on a trailer boats - kept out of the water for long periods then launched in a hurry - I wonder how they managed that without the planks opening up.

Ian, they did it with constant maintenance and attention to detail. These boats weren't left for months in a garage unattended all winter. They were kept soaked up by frequent launching, or with buckets of seawater at the very least. They definitely weren't kept out of the water for "long periods", not like a casually and occasionally used recreational boat.

There's no question that you can build and use absolutely traditional lapstrake still--I row a trad. lap 28' four-oared gig I helped build a least one morning a week all year round--but you do have to put time and effort into regular upkeep that the typical FG boat owner wouldn't countenance.

Here's the active fleet of my OARSS club, every one but the middle boat built absolutely traditional solid wood lapstrake.

[IanHowick]

James, thanks for the pictures of all those pulling boats. Is there a reference book on traditional lapstrake boat building and or any blogs here by someone who has done a boat this way?

Clint - while we're on the subject of whaleboats, are you by any chance related to Owen Chase, the first mate of the Essex?

Ian

[Sayla]

Could it be done? Are there any books on completely traditional lapstrake boat building? (Yes, I can see this boat isn't lapstrake) It seems to me these whaleboats were kept in similar situation to modern on a trailer boats - kept out of the water for long periods then launched in a hurry - I wonder how they managed that without the planks opening up.

It's a good read

sayla

[James McMullen]

Well here's a blog about one of those boats in the picture anyways: http://emeraldmarine.blogspot.com/ That's the one I most usually row myself.

Walt Simmons has a couple of volumes on traditional lapstrake boatbuilding that I'd recommend available through Duck Trap Woodworking.

---Oops. looks like Sayla beat me to it.

[TomF]

...Does anyone have lines, drawings to share of the 17' Hampton out of "Boatbuilding" by Chapelle?

Now youère talking. the search function set to Hampden will bring up 2 or 3 threads where I played with ideas for that boat. Someone, and I confess I have lost track of who, did model it based on the offsets from Chapelle, and cobbled it together in delftship.

I have them somewhere, and will look for the file. i still want to build it someday myself - though probably using something like a hybrid technique, with some weight shifted into a keel, and some in water ballast.

[Daniel Noyes]

there's also a Hampton profiled in the latest edition of Small Boats by WB as well as a nice spread by Tom J. about his No-mans land boat

[Sayla]

...Does anyone have lines, drawings to share of the 17' Hampton out of "Boatbuilding" by Chapelle?

You can buy the book, delivered, for about ten dollars - other plans in there too

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...condition=used

sayla

[Clinton B Chase]

I'm getting into my dory project. Here she is being "set up" with frames.


MakingFrames by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr

It will get built one way or the other. My current fantasy is to build one of each way, from a precut "kit" generated from the computer model, and traditionally by laying down the lines, and building in solid wood.

Sometimes the bottom falls out....

MakingFrames.2 by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr

[James McMullen]

My current fantasy is to build one of each way, from a precut "kit" generated from the computer model, and traditionally by laying down the lines, and building in solid wood.

Thats the spirit, Clint! The more sail and oar boats the better! And I'll be very curious to hear what you think of the contrasts in everything between the two building styles. I definitely prefer building in trad. lap, but I think Rowan is actually better with her intended use and set up as a glued lapstrake epoxy/wood composite boat.

[keyhavenpotterer]

I'm still voting for a real wood Arctic Tern. just how beautiful do you want a boat to be! http://thetroublewitholdboats.blogspot.co.uk/

[Tom Jackson]

Could it be done? Are there any books on completely traditional lapstrake boat building? (Yes, I can see this boat isn't lapstrake) It seems to me these whaleboats were kept in similar situation to modern on a trailer boats - kept out of the water for long periods then launched in a hurry - I wonder how they managed that without the planks opening up.

Hi, Ian—

The whaleboats typically used lapstrake planks for the upper two strakes and also between the garboard and the first broadstrake. The other seams were what we in the U.S. call "batten seam" construction. In this construction, the planks butt edge to edge as in carvel, but the "batten" is a light piece running along the inside of the seam. The edges of the plank are clench-nailed to the batten. I think this was done primarily for quiet running in pursuit of whales, without having the "take up" issues of a carvel hull. If you're interested in whaleboats, you should see about getting Willits Ansel's book, "Whaleboat," which is probably available used online.

Lapstrake boats generally don't leak in the seams when launched. One way is to make the bevels perfectly; another is to use some sort of "lutting," or caulking, which has a long history in some kinds of lapstrake planking. Where these boats leak generally is in the hood ends or the garboard seam.

[Clinton B Chase]

That is really a beautiful sight. So will the Deblois Street Dory. I am ordering Western Red for the strakes and using my stock of No White Cedar for the bottom. Here is latest model.


DSD_4.17.2012 by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr

It is always interesting to unroll a plank surface and see what it looks like in 2D. Here is the garboard. I'll glue it up from three pieces of cedar to keep grain runout minimal.


GBD by Clint Chase Boatbuilder, on Flickr

[IanHowick]

Thanks, James Mc, Salya and Tom Jackson for the info/references to trad lapstrake and batten seam construction.

I'm with keyhavenpotter - the completely trad arctic tern looks beautiful.

Clint - I'm curious about your proposed construction method, it seems a bit of a mix, some parts epoxy glued and presumably encapsulated, other parts more traditional lapstrake. Won't you end up with some parts of the boat that want to be kept as dry as possible, other parts that want to stay wet so the wood swells and keeps the seams tight. How will that work?

Ian

[RodB]

http://www.folkstreams.net/film,41

Clint.... did you ever see this video... very cool for traditional building the process and the man... and the history...

Well worth the 25 minutes...


RodB

[Clinton B Chase]

After going through my cedar inventory, and placing the order for WRC next week, I am committing to all solid wood. Some dory builders have used ply for the garboard. I'll do cedar unless my stock turns out not to be appropriate.

Per Ian's question, that is a common one and a good question. Any glued-composite part of the boat (i.e., ply or glassed) could care less what the conditions were. I'll have all solid wood. If the boat is planked at equiibrium moisture content (about 12% for these parts), it will be dry enough to epoxy glue (scarfs) and when sitting on a trailer, the wood won't dry out. Because of the stability of WRC, any drying will cause minimal shrinkage. Swelling will be minimal too.

So, tight laps will be important as Tom mentions. And, I'll likely use some goo at hood ends and along the lap joint with the bottom planks. The bottom of the boat is to be edge glued local cedar. I'll use G-flex. All the wood will be infused with oil ("boat soup"; undecided on the mixture) to minimize the drying-wetting cycling. Of course it will be painted.

So it will be quite trailerable even with the use of solid wood. To help make the bottom tougher for beaching, I intend to use a false bottom, likely G-10. So I am not being a purist with this project, but look fwd to enjoying a lack of glass work and cutting cedar and oak vs. ply for a change.

Thanks for the video Rob.

[Clinton B Chase]

Hey all who have followed. I am committing to building my dory. It will be all solid wood, cedar and oak.

I think I have the hull pretty close. Will be moving to interior design/redesign. Some stations are moving slightly.

Is there interest in a new thread on the Deblois St Dory as the re-design finishes. There is thread here started by Keyhavenpotter..

seems like a good place to pick up, Thanks.

[Daniel Noyes]

Any more design progress on the D street?... Are you looking to change anything about the hull form from the first boat to this one? or is the computer just for a future CNC kit.

How wide is the garboard? the G board on the Centennial I am building is over 15 inches and will be 1/2" Marine ply, this will also fix the achillies heel of dory construction, cracks in the garboard near the stem and stern grain run-out.

[Clinton B Chase]

Dan, I'v moved over to the DSD thread started by KHP a while back. Check us out there!

[Clinton B Chase]

Here is my latest idea. I may be building one of these this winter:

http://store.gartsideboats.com/colle...oat-design-126

She would be Red Cedar on White Oak, and likely built at 13' rather than the drawn 12'. I would only use epoxy in any scarf joints.

I'll keep the thread posted!