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Thread: NJ Garvey build

  1. #1
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    Default NJ Garvey build

    I have been lurking here for awhile and decided to build a NJ sailing garvey from Chappelle's ASSC. I picked up copies of the plans from the Smithsonian already and I am sure I will have a bunch of questions as I go.

    I figured I would start this thread to post progress as I go along.

    I bought some Atlantic White Cedar sawn 5/4 so I can get it drying for planking in a couple of month.

    In looking at the planks I was wondering how many planks people wind up gluing together to make up a 18' long by 16" wide side planks? I was thinking it should only take 2 but I can see probably more.

    Rick

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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    2 would be good, but 3 would be ok as well.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  3. #3
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Rick I think there is a Chapelle sailing garvey at the Independence Seaport Museum in Philadelphia.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Good luck, I look forward to seeing the result.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Mike,

    Independence Seaport has the 22' two mast garvey from ASSC. I would like to build the 17' 8" one from ASSC.

    This is a single mast garvey.

    Rick

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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Three is stronger and more stable than two if you are edgejoining with glue. Be sure to alternate the ring cups in flatsawn and riftsawn.

    The originals weren't glued, but edgejoined using toenailed galvanized or bronze drifts with white lead paste in the seams. While full-length drifts aren't necessary with modern glues, a sound technique is to install bronze drifts cut into 3" dowels to align the edges. If in a collision the cedar breaks at the glueline, the dowels will still hold the hull together.

    And remember the cedar has to be below 12% moisture content to glue with epoxy. From green that'll take a lot longer than a couple months in 5/4, and stacked and stickered outdoors it won't begin drying at all until May.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 03-28-2012 at 09:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Bob--would such a glue-up best be done at the bench, or in-build on the boat?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Bob,

    Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify I was also asking about how many boards could you scarf end to end to get the required length? Is there a practical limit?

    Rick

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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Rick,
    I have been very happy with simple butt joints on the garvey sides. Also, some of the old timers around cape may county used a batten to back up the seam between the side planks. This batten would be screwed to the planks and bedded in something like dolphinite or white lead. I know someone that has a gallon of white lead available...

    I have also seen a 30 foot or so garvey that had the sides (maybe 2 1/2" thick) drift bolted with galvanized drifts.

    I also checked out a heavily built 65" garvey type wood buoy tender that had what appeared to be 4 inch thick side that were drifted together.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  10. #10
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_NJ View Post
    Bob,

    Thanks for the advice. Just to clarify I was also asking about how many boards could you scarf end to end to get the required length? Is there a practical limit?

    Rick
    Three again. The typical "dogleg" scarf on each end that saves a lot of wood in getting out plank shapes and minimizing grain runout at the ends where planks are prone to splitting at the fasteners:



    The typical method to build the smaller Garveys was to assemble both entire sides, including properly-beveled chines and frames, screw the sides to the molds mounted to sawhorses that were aligned and nailed to the floor, and pull both ends in using Spanish Windlasses/door clamps to install the transoms. Over-width, beveled cleats fastened temporarily to the sides were used to spread the clamp load, and string lines and levels were used to to plumb and horn. It's a fast method of construction...hence a major purpose of the design...but depending on the wood you use and the size/shape of the individual boat, pulling the assembled sides in cold can be a helluva job, and if I ever do another out of stiff woods like Doug Fir and Western Red Cedar I'll build a steam box sufficiently large for both assembled sides.

    My family used butt blocks, drifts and battens along with white lead-bedded and riveted scarfs, but these were large, heavy, inboard-powered work boats to 26 feet built to take the abuse of clamming and eeling. In a smaller, lighter sport boat I'd stick with epoxy and feather scarfs to save weight and keep the lines clean. I'd also build a more substantial strongback than sawhorses, one that premounts the transoms, especially if I were working alone. I'd also probably switch to resorcinol if I were planning to steam the sides.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 03-29-2012 at 09:11 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Thanks again for the advice. On the lines that Chappelle took, he notes that the garvey had a king plank on the forward deck. From my limited research I am taking that to mean that there was either a sprung and\or nibbed deck.

    As a workboat I am guessing that the deck would have been painted versus kept bright.

    Is it worth the effort to have the king plank/sprung deck or to install a simple deck and cover it with canvas?

    Thanks,

    Rick

  12. #12
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    I am familiar with garvey's that have a strip planked sprung deck that doubles as washboards along the gunnels. I don't know if they had a king plank at the bow or not.

    I am also familiar with garvies that the fore deck is planked side was exactly like the bottom.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  13. #13
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad Van Gilder View Post
    I am familiar with garvey's that have a strip planked sprung deck that doubles as washboards along the gunnels. I don't know if they had a king plank at the bow or not.

    I am also familiar with garvies that the fore deck is planked side was exactly like the bottom.
    Where the decks painted?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    yeah. almost everyone I have seen has had a painted deck. I only remember seeing one with a varnished deck.

    All the ones I did had just the short foredeck... I never did a garvey with washboards.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_NJ View Post
    Is it worth the effort to have the king plank/sprung deck or to install a simple deck and cover it with canvas?
    I'm not familiar with the specific boat and lines Chappelle recorded, but to me it depends on how shapely they are. Garveys are a minor refinement of crude scows intended to perform work with a minimal expenditure of labor and materials. The originals were never built from plans and varied considerably from each other, ranging from slab-sided tubs to shallow, shapely punts. Some intended for deeper waters even had plank keels and a bit of deadrise. Hence you can build any deck treatment you like, but too much fancy might not match the rest of the boat. All I'm familiar with had T&G decks covered with painted canvas bedded in white lead, but in a clean, nicely-built sport boat, a straight-laid deck with nibbed covering boards would be more attractive.

    The original intent of an oil or varnish finish in a workboat design was limited to parts that required daily inspection for cracks, like spars and oars. Accordingly, I wouldn't varnish anything on a Garvey except those and a few highlights here and there in the cockpit. Nor would I use modern, high-gloss plastic paints.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 03-30-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build







    This is thought to have been built in the late 40's on Long Island but Bob's description fits it pretty well. It may have come from New Jersey. Cedar planks, 1 1/8" lower, 7/8" upper side plank dowelled with bronze pins, bottom cross planks are 7/8" x 5" to 6" wide. Side planks are flush outside and offset inside with frames notched to fit. No chine timber, cedar bow transom and decks, white oak stern transom and fore deck beams and mahogany side frames.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    The bow transom makes me say it isn't a south jersey boat.... beyond that I can't say a word...

    not much freeboard though...
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  18. #18
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Looks like a punt to hunt waterfowl from to me. Built for a small outboard rather than oar or sail. Same intent as a Sneakbox, but patterned after a Garvey to make it just as functional but a lot easier and faster to build.

    Interesting boat. Looks to be well-built, but why suffer the unnecessary weight of a 5/4 lower side board when a simple chine would have done the job of a secure bottom-side joint so much better? Maybe he was afraid he couldn't bend it. As I said above, cold-bending an assembled side that combines relatively fragile cedar atop a hard, 2x2 oak or fir chine can be tricky, as unless you cleat and pull it in properly, the force required to bend the oak will break the cedar.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 03-30-2012 at 08:46 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    I replaced the port lower side plank about 25 years ago when I got it. I'd guess there wouldn't be much weight difference between the heavier lower plank and a lighter plank with a chine. This boat is only 15' long. As for power it probably couldn't use much more than about 3HP. It rows pretty well as the transom stays clear of the water unless you are all the way aft.

    Several local sharpie builders, notably DeWitt Conklin, built all their boats without chines so this may have been built by or influenced by one of them. I'd never seen any local boats with the bronze dowel pins before which made me wonder if this was from NJ as much of Bob's description fit so well. This boat was very nicely built but is now suffering from old age.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    This is the garvey I am refering to.

    Last edited by Rick_NJ; 04-04-2012 at 02:22 PM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    yup, thats what I have built. although you never seen it drawn in, I usually make little quarter knees to make attaching the sides to the horizontal stem piece easier.
    There is a joy in madness, that only mad men know. -Nieztsche

  22. #22
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    While waiting for the white cedar to dry I have been thinking over the bottom planking and have a question.

    For cross planking the bottom for the curved section from stations 1-9 do you backout the planks and plane the edge similar to carvel planking or do you plane the chines flat, removing the fore and aft curve to make the bottom a collection of straight sections and just fair the bottom to the curve?

    Rick

  23. #23
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    You never cut the chine. Nor should you have to back out planks very often - use narrower planks at the curves or bend wider planks across the grain and adjust the caulking seams accordingly. But back them out if you have to, and while there's a couple of ways to skin this cat, I usually make a caulking seam between the sides and the bottom, while limiting my bottom fastening to plank-chine. Another alternative is to just add a few strings of wicking to the chines atop the tar or bedding compound, but I like the adjustablility-repairability feature of a proper caulking seam, combined with the screw-holding power of hard, framing timber versus the softer planking timber used in the sides:



    And as Chappelle only recorded boats and never actually built one himself, be careful. His boatbuilding books contain a few serious mistakes. If his Garvey doesn't have a full-length chine, then I strongly suggest you add or lengthen one instead of fastening any of the planks to the sides.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 04-19-2012 at 08:06 PM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_NJ View Post
    This is the garvey I am refering to.

    You'll notice he didn't provide a rig for it. There's one on Lake Union that used to have a sprit sail, but he switched to a leg-of-mutton sprit sail from the rig shown in the same book for the 18 foot flat-bottomed sharpie skiff. Seems to work okay, he doesn't look overcanvassed.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    It has been over 3 months since the cedar has been cut. I tested the wood about 2 inches in from the ends at the middle of the stack and I am getting about 20% moisture reading.

    I am going to start working on lofting the lines and ordering the supplies.

    I am planning on assembling the garvey using screws as Thad suggested.

    What type(galvenized or bronze) and how many should I order?

    I figure I can work on the centerboard and rudder if I need to give the cedar more time to dry.

    Rick

  26. #26
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Order more than you think you need. Bronze if you can afford it, but galvanized will last over twenty years, even outdoors. Figure out what you need by multiplying frames by planks x 2, including transoms, chines, and keel. Add one every four inches along the sides of the chine, same for rubrails. Then add seat risers. I think my dinghy took a thousand.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    How many frames should I build and at which stations? Most Books I have read state build the bow and stern, a couple of frames and bend the planks on.

    Where should I place the frames since the centerboard takes up most of the center section of the hull?

    Chapelle mentions the boat was a hulk when he measured it so I was looking at the 18' rig as well since the boat is similar sized.

    Rick

  28. #28
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    I have been a bit delayed in working on this. The lofting is done and deck crown pattern made up.

    I will try to build a strongback this weekend so I can start making the frames.

    Rick

  29. #29
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    It happens to all of us.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Since my last post I finished lofting and expanded the side planks to get an idea of the plank sizes I need. I am scarfing together the best lumber I have to get the length and then I will install the drifts as Bob suggested.

    Here are shots of the building table currently being used as a plank bench to glue up the planks



    Here is the scarfing jig I built, I am hand planing the scarfs as I go.





    Trash can full of shavings. Not sure what white cedar shavings are good for.



    Rick

  31. #31
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Tinder, mulch... thanks for posting.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    How do you use that jig? Do the tapered pieces hold the plank, or the plane? I'm not yet close to being satisfied with the way I'm doing scarfs.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    John,

    I roughly center the plank in the jig, I put a spacer on one side and then the two tapered peices on the other. I tap one of the tapered pieces in to wedge the plank tight in the jig. I will get a picture when I am working on the next plank.

    Rick

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: NJ Garvey build

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I look forward to the picture, I'm still not visualizing it.
    The two tapered pieces on the edges are rails that the #7 plane rides on. The Piece to be scarfed is laid between the tapered rails and is locked in with wedges. Most of the waste is wacked off with a coarse set jack or scrub plane. When you get close you shift to the long soled plane and carefully bring the scarf surface down to match the taper on the rails.
    There is a limit to the width that can be done with this method because the sole of a #7 is only about 22 inches long.

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