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Thread: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

  1. #71
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Hahaha, enough to make me weep( u)

  2. #72
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I was leaning towards a Kiwiprop John, but I hear soo much negative stuff about them. I asked the haulout operator who is a yachtie and gets to see more propeller than most of us.
    He gave them a big no. Guys put them on, then 2 years later they are throwing them in the skip and digging deeper in their pockets.
    Phil with "Loloma" has had no problems, so go figure.
    I would be at the upper end of their HP range which gives me more hesitation as well.
    I have searches in place for a second hand unit, so wait and see.

    I ordered some winch pawls for my Arco primary winches that arrived yesterday, so I am all ready to go for Saturday!

  3. #73
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The kiwi prop does fine, but the one I had killed Waione's gearbox due to that stupid part engaged reverse ratio they get. Miraculously , a warning about Hurth gearboxes and incompatibilty with them appeared about the same time mine fried reverse. That warning didn't exist when I consulted with them and the engine supplier at new.
    However since then they've revised that spring tension or whatever caused that so I understand. They are temperamental in that you must absolutely be onto the greasing of the 5 points. I used to have to grid the boat just to do that but well, didn't help me did it.
    I'm not sure about secondhand of a bronze / stainless featherer, you'd have to be very careful. The seahawk is good but has plastic bearings , something like a max prop is not economic to rebush or repair here. When I enquired it was all about sending it to Italy for 4 months.
    Last edited by John B; 09-18-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  4. #74
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Yeah I saw one that was correct rotation and size at the right price, but it looks a bit eroded on the exterior shot. Probably not a good look as far as the internals go.
    The 2 blade 16 x 13 fixed one I'm using came off trademe for $50!

  5. #75
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Still dragging the fixed propeller around a year later! At least it is also dragging my race handicap down.

    Another build thread here inspired me to detail the next major undertaking I am hoping to start before Christmas.
    I need to get the mast down and rebuild the spongy mast step.
    As part of this I need to attach it to the step as it just sit in a Stainless shoe at present.
    Towards the end of last racing season I was concerned that after adjusting the rig tension it would go soft again.
    The mast is deck stepped with a kingplank that runs the length of the cabintop, and a laminated ringframe and bulkhead under this below the mast.
    I didn't keep tightening, but finally found the cause was the plywood cabintop that the shoe is attached to is spongy.

    So I need to drop the rig, and attack the cabintop to remove the rot.
    I've got a length of Teak to insert into the cabintop for the mast to sit on. The teak plank will sit on the kingplank so there is no plywood in this high load area.
    I do need to get the opinion of the local safety inspector to make sure I comply with section 14 of the Kiwi Cat 1-5 regs.
    I'm thinking a rod that goes through the deck and is attached to the bulkhead. The other end will have an eye for a bolt that pierces the mast sideways.
    That all sounds like far more work when written down.
    I am wanting to go to a regatta in Nelson in Mid January!

  6. #76
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    What's the rod for? You have a compression post? I know your Cat 1 regs require a keel-stepped mast to be tied to the keel - is there an equivalent tying on requirement for a deck-stepped mast? Seems odd to me.

    Rick

  7. #77
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This is a great thread. Nice looking boat there.
    Fish and ships or is that chips

  8. #78
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Fantastic thread Slacko.
    I only just found it.

    ( I can hardly bring myself to type your " handle " , as you are anything but " slack " , that`s for sure !

    What a great effort you have put in to maintain and repair this boat.

    Thank you so much for sharing this , i`m a little awestruck !

  9. #79
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The rod is to hold the mast down.
    I'm not sure if the inspector requires it but they are pretty picky (written in blood remember).

    Thanks for the support, I've not posted in a year so the thread was pretty buried.

    No current photo's, there are a few rough edges from racing for the last couple of years (incl bent stern rail!).
    Nothing a bit of polish couldn't sort out.
    We have a 20 mile race on Saturday which is looking pretty light weather, then mast down.
    I'm hoping we will make some gains in pointing ability from getting more tension in the forestay, as we are slow to windward at moment.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    It'd be worth consulting an inspector Slacko, the point is not to keep the mast but to save the heel slashing around inside the boat after/ during a rig loss. Therefore a deck stepped mast should not need its heel captivated in the same way .

  11. #81
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The only reference I can find in the NZ safety regulations pertaining to mast steps is this:

    14.1 The mast(s) must be adequately stepped. All boats must have a mast step preferably spanning several floors, or to be fitted in such a way as to spread the load. The heel of the mast shall be securely fastened to the mast step or adjoining structure sufficiently to retain the mast in place while sailing.

    This issue was raised in another thread where we were discussing the requirement to tie down a keel stepped mast. The logic of this is that a broken mast could thrash around below the deck, causing all sorts of damage. But it would seem to me that a deck-stepped mast should be able to be released in an emergency. A step with a tenon arrangement secures the mast but if a broken or downed mast needs to be cast off, it can be lifted off. A rod though - what does that achieve? How do you cast off the mast in an emergency? I'd be checking that regulation before I ran a hole through my mast for a rod! What will the rod be fastened to?

    Rick

  12. #82
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This will be done in consultation with an inspector.
    I was surprised that deck stepped was not mentioned in the regs.

    I'm thinking that if the rigging gives way somehow, at present that the heel is going to take off in some direction or another.
    If the back stay went for instance with the wind aft, the mast would go over the bow.
    This means the heel is heading for the cockpit once it gets free of the shoe!
    The rigging will need to be cut away to let it over the side, so a 10 mm Stainless rod is only one more thing to get rid of.
    Having the heel under control while cutting the rigging away would be a plus too.
    If the inspector doesn't like it or can't see any pluses I will not do it.

    RFNK - The mast is already got various holes and I can use a throughbolt that is used for the vang attachment that is in the right area 200 mm above the deck.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I meant what will you attach it to on the deck?

    Yep, it'll be interesting to hear what your inspector says. If it is required, perhaps a cable and clevis pin setup, similar to the rigging, might be a way to go? I don't know - I've just never heard of this!

    Rick

  14. #84
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Irrelevant but I just checked the Australian Cat 1 requirements. A keel-stepped mast has to be securely fastened at the keel. No mention of any such fastening for a deck-stepped mast.

    I have to sort out our keel-stepped mast, by the way!

    Rick

  15. #85
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I would go through the deck inside the mast to the compression post. There is already a penetration there for the cabling, so another one is no more likely to leak.

    I spent some of this afternoon sorting out my mainsheet and traveller that got flogged in the series of gales we've been having the last week or so.
    I think a shackle on the bottom block must have given way, which meant the boom became loose and all the shock loading got transferred to the cleat which is separate.
    So it was a new swivel base for the cleat, 2 cheek blocks for the traveller on one side, mainsheet was frayed and replaced and the triple block on the traveller for the mainsheet.
    Luckily I had some of the bits in my spares, but I still spent $200.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Hopefully a shot of the offending area.


    It doesn't look like much really, but the rigging last night during the rum race was pretty soft.
    We won the race and the rum, but I was far happier when we got back on the mooring.
    It was a lot windier than I allowed for and we had way too much sail up in the end!
    That was the last sail before the work starts.

    A shot of hopefully the last version of the mainsheet/traveller connection. I just need to replace the dyneema loops periodically.

  17. #87
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Mast is now down on deck. Had pretty good weather for it considering how changeable it is in Wellington this time of year.



    Surprising amount of prep work required, and also how much things have changed in the 3 years since the mast went up the last time.
    Some of the rigging was difficult to remove cleanly without making quite a bit of work to put back, so there is a bit of gear dangling off the mast.
    The riggers did an excellent tidy job of securing it on deck, so I can build a tarp tunnel to work underneath.
    They did comment that the shoe the mast sits in does not have a drain hole to let out moisture, so there is a grubby wet spot under the mast that is an excellent place for rot to start!
    Last edited by Slacko; 12-01-2014 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Getting photo to show

  18. #88
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This is the view once the mast was removed.
    The buildup of dirt telling the story of pooling water.


    Most of the ply removed from the deck where I'm going to insert some Teak.


    The kingplank underneath needs a small section replaced, which may get interesting getting it under the edges of the ply and on top of the ring frame underneath.
    That sharpie pen cross is one of my mast locators. The front of the shoe is 700 mm back from that cross, and a line drawn through that one and another aft gives the centreline. I need to try to not lose them in my destruction!
    I bought a second hand 5 Kw generator to run powertools on the mooring this week. It was cheap, but wouldn't generate power when fired up.
    Gotta love Youtube. 20 minutes of looking online gave me the answer, which was to flash the field wiring with a drill.
    Unfortunately I didn't get that figured out until tonight, so I had another day using a battery skilsaw and handtools.
    The ply was spongy on the portside around the rear of the hatch, so I have removed the hatch surround all the way to the cabin side.



    I got a bit further than this shows but the 25 knot southerly came in and it got a bit boisterous on the mooring.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.



    Sorry to interrupt fella's but I saw the Thread title and thought I may have found the solution to this problem.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I had a bit of a delay to work this morning.
    I started the engine and dropped the mooring lines to go alongside the wharf so I could access the shed.
    After drifting back away from the sinking lines I engaged reverse.
    Nothing happened! Luckily there is 5 knots of breeze carrying me away from the concrete wall, unfortunately I am headed for more trouble.
    I calmly hooked the bowsprit of a 100 year old gaffer and tied up alongside, setting a fender.

  21. #91
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I was now sitting with no gears and no dinghy to get ashore!
    After hailing the crew about to go out for a sail, I retrieved my dinghy from the mooring and proceeded to strip the Morse engine controls.
    The stud holding some of it together had sheared off. When drilled out it proved to be junk metal, and was replaced with a stainless nut and bolt through the housing.
    Unfortunately I lost 2-3 hours work sorting it out completely, but it will have been why I was still in gear not neutral as I presumed, when I hit the wall getting on the mooring the last time.

    So, I sanded the paint and glass off the edge of the cabin top to reveal the end of the plywood I am replacing, then cut it away with the Fein multitool. I still wonder how some of these tasks were achieved without this great little tool. Hard yakka being the most obvious answer.


    With that gone I have a good landing for the 2 layers of 9 mm replacement plywood I will glue in.


    I still have to cut some rot out of the kingplank and scarf a new piece in there, replace a section of handrail backing that give the first layer of ply something to shape around.
    Then cut the edge back with a router 20 mm so the next layer of ply will overlap onto the original ply.
    I can then start the rebuild part of the job.
    The old ply is 3 ply Meranti, but I will probably use Okuume to replace it as the Meranti I have seen from the local suppliers isn't that flash.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    Still dragging the fixed propeller around a year later! At least it is also dragging my race handicap down.

    Another build thread here inspired me to detail the next major undertaking I am hoping to start before Christmas.
    I need to get the mast down and rebuild the spongy mast step.
    As part of this I need to attach it to the step as it just sit in a Stainless shoe at present.
    Towards the end of last racing season I was concerned that after adjusting the rig tension it would go soft again.
    The mast is deck stepped with a kingplank that runs the length of the cabintop, and a laminated ringframe and bulkhead under this below the mast.
    I didn't keep tightening, but finally found the cause was the plywood cabintop that the shoe is attached to is spongy.

    So I need to drop the rig, and attack the cabintop to remove the rot.
    I've got a length of Teak to insert into the cabintop for the mast to sit on. The teak plank will sit on the kingplank so there is no plywood in this high load area.
    I do need to get the opinion of the local safety inspector to make sure I comply with section 14 of the Kiwi Cat 1-5 regs.
    I'm thinking a rod that goes through the deck and is attached to the bulkhead. The other end will have an eye for a bolt that pierces the mast sideways.
    That all sounds like far more work when written down.
    I am wanting to go to a regatta in Nelson in Mid January!

    Looks like the mast step is poorly designed. Traps water and keeps the electric cable and fasteners wet

    electrical and plumbing should enter the side of the mast and pass thru the deck with a packed swan neck

    you might consider blocking up the mast step on top of a sheet of 25mm thick plastic with drain holes ..


    subir fotos online

  23. #93
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I've not seen external deck penetrations for cables like that before.
    When the deck went spongy, the step compressed into it and blocked the marginal drainage that was there.
    I fitted a swan neck inside the mast the last time it was out but all too late to save the ply.
    That photo shows quite a few things it would be nice to have, but not on my payscale!
    It lasted 40 years how it was, so if I improve it I won't have to look at it again.

  24. #94
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The beauty of 40 year old boats is that you get to see how details withstood the test of time.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    And you also get to see why things failed.
    Haumuri is the last one standing I think of 4-5 that got built.
    They seem attracted to land with at least 2 having catastrophic beachings that I know of.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This is the cable penetration that caused the moisture to get into the timber, along with the screws holding the mast shoe down.

    I cut the rotten king plank back to good material and scarfed in some Tasmanian Oak recycled floorboards I had left over after running them through the thicknesser.


    The floorboards were not thick enough or wide enough, so I laminated them in place using the tongue and groove that was on them already and plenty of epoxy. I realised while doing it that a solid piece would not have been able to be inserted without a lot more deck being cut away.
    Last edited by Slacko; 01-01-2015 at 05:01 AM. Reason: fixing images

  27. #97
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The next day I shaped some teak to insert into the slot left in the deck.
    I glued it down with epoxy and will caulk the join to the plywood after leaving a nice groove around the teak and the groove between the 2 teak planks. The teak ended up at 25 mm thick sitting on top of a 28 mm king plank. This is sitting on the laminated ring frame visible in the shots.

    The planks being shaped in the boatshed workbench. Haumuri is tied up about 5 metres away.


    Glued in and screwed from underneath temporarily.

  28. #98
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The title of this thread makes me think of a saying we have at our shop, "Putty and Paint, make it what it ain't"
    Fish and ships or is that chips

  29. #99
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Up to New Years Eve now.
    I sanded the teak and cleaned out the grooves that will take the caulking, so this is now ready for replacing the plywood hole.
    The edge of the teak has a 20 mm deep slot that the first layer of 9 mm ply will slot into with plenty of glue. This will give me a good anchor to bend the ply down to the cabin edge.



    The black line on the cabin top shows where I will cut the top layer of plywood back so the joins in the 2 sheets are offset by 20 mm. The original construction has some joins like these and some scarf joins, so Jack couldn't decide which was required either.
    This shot also shows the missing handrails that were supposedly White Oak when the timber was purchased. They have melted away like an icecream with rot, so the timber must have been Red Oak. This basically means that I can't trust Oak from a timber merchant to be what I ask for so no more Oak.
    I will replace them with Iroko, but still not happy with the extra work.

  30. #100
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    On New Years eve I also fired up the steamer to replace a section of toerail that had rotted out.
    When I got Haumuri the paint on the toerails was shabby and I replaced a couple of sections and repainted it all.
    There is still some rot lurking within it I'm sure, but will keep doing bits as it bursts out of the paint.
    I took a pattern of the curve of the toerail and transferred it onto the workbench with a marker.
    I then screwed some blocks to the bench to bend the material around after steaming it for 2 hours.
    I had already cut the profile in some Douglas Fir I recovered from my garage roof beams.

    The steamer that I still need to take back to the owner, Oops!


    I used blocks screwed to the bench rather than clamps due to the 45 deg angle of the material.



    Those black marks are from the copper tube of the bender not fungal.

  31. #101
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    1st Jan
    I removed the toerail from the blocks and shoved the other end of it back into the steamer (the tube wasn't long enough to do it in one hit), then clamped it back onto the bench.

    I also made the ply panels and glued the 2 layers into place after cutting the extra 20 mm back in the top layer.
    There was a bit of trimming to get them to fit nicely, but patience got there in the end.
    This is the first layer glued into place.


    After the first layer was installed and the second ready to be glued down, I taped the inside of the boat along the joins and poured runny epoxy with glue powder into the 3 mm gap I made for this reason. I then put a nice layer of epoxy over the first layer and screwed the second one down.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    2nd Jan 2015
    The photo's seem to have dried up at the moment.
    I removed the screws holding the top layer of ply down in the morning. We are having 20 deg C every day, so the epoxy is going off nicely.
    I cut some 200 gsm glass cloth and glassed the repair overlaying the surrounding material that had been sanded back, so that the glass will feather when sanded back.
    I then used some of the left over teak to repair a section in the cockpit that tore away from the plywood due to the 6 foot mainsheet trimmer using it as a brace position.

    We had a bit of wind causing waves to enter the boat harbour after bouncing off the under wharf carpark of a new apartment complex that has been built on an existing wharf.
    We only used to have this problem if a ship was tied up to the wharf and the wind was from this angle.
    The outcome of this was an aluminium cleat was snapped at the base and torn out of the deck, Grr! Another job added to the list.
    The last thing I did for the day was trim some loose fibres off the edges of the glass and mixed a batch of filler. This got spread over the repair patch and left to go off.
    Last edited by Slacko; 01-03-2015 at 02:50 AM.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    3rd Jan 2015
    This morning I sanded the filler back with the RO sander and after checking for level with a steel metre rule, added another layer of filler in the middle of the sheet.
    I got started on the toerail repair and got it cut to length and scarfs cut to fit into the deck that the rotten section had already been removed and scarfs cut.
    I had to cut a small scupper in it to replicate the original and fiddle around a bit to get a nice fit.
    The bend I had put into the timber was pretty awesome and I only needed a screw at either end and a lump of steel in the middle to hold it down while the liberal application of glue does it's thing.
    I used the squeeze out to add a couple of trim bits to the cockpit teak repair that also involved the top of an inspection hatch to the back of the gearbox and shaft coupling.
    I'm also using the squeeze out and leftovers to tidy up the inside of the cabintop repairs.
    A bit of sanding is now required. I will give that a couple of days to have a decent cure to avoid irritating my skin with the dust inside the cabin. I'm OK on deck sanding as it is open plan!

    I decided that after looking at the forecasted wind for the next 3 days to move into the marina next door, to avoid a repeat of the wind damage that occurred yesterday. It was pretty hard to work as well.
    As my boat is 14.1 metres long I had to take a 16 metre berth.
    Wow, there is no way I could afford that long term!!
    I will be back out of there ASAP.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    4th Jan
    Sanded back the fill that I did yesterday.



    There were still a couple of low spots, so it got another coat.
    My West hardener measuring pump was getting a bit sticky yesterday, so I tried to clean it out with thinners this morning.
    It ended up in the bin not working at all, so lucky I checked it before pressing on.

    This morning I took a shot of the cockpit repair that has been going on. I'm liking using Teak, not as hard as I expected and the edge tools get a nice finish. This is in spite of my plane and chisels not being super sharp.



    This is now ready for paint around the edge and antiskid on the flat deck to stop the mainsheet trimmer whining!
    Replace the foam seal on the hatch surround and it's ready to go.

    The toerail glued into place yesterday.


    I glassed 2 layers of 200 GSM tape over it, as the lead blocks for the Genoa give the toerail a real hard time. I tried to get some Kevlar tape or something, and may still put some over the paint finish at a later date.

    I removed the broken cleat from yesterday and cut back the Teak under it that had split. It is obviously a recent addition as Jack didn't use SS Posidrive screws. All his fastenings are copper boatnails or Brass screws.




    That bit of teak cleaned up really nice in about 5 minutes from that photo.
    I've cut a replacement, even though it's not great to install the cleats on top of a bit of timber like that. The Teak trim helps to stop the water on the leeward rail from pouring into the cockpit we new tack.
    Does anyone know where I can get some baskets to protect the speaker grilles as shown? I've had a look online, but not had any hits. It was me who kicked it in, skidding across the deck in a tack.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Sorry for not keeping up Slacko but what's that big bit of teak on the cabin top (in #101 and previous) actually for? Looks like you're right into it all there!

    Rick

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