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Thread: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I think I said no work, not no sailing.
    I'm more of a sailor than boatbuilder, and that probably meant things took longer than they could have because I was racing still at the same time.
    Not as much, but still there at least once a week.
    The yacht I race on is sitting behind mine in the last photo above by the way.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Congratulations for a great job and a great post!
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Nice job Slacko!!!
    Larks

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    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  4. #39
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Thanks for the nice comments.

    I'm making a new battery box at the moment out of 12mm plywood, to take 4 gel deep cycle batteries that will give me 220 amp/hours capacity.
    I've got a BEP marine 3 stage regulator and a second alternator that is pretty simple to rewire for external excitation. This will also give me a signal to drive a rev counter that I picked up off the net for small change.
    The alternator has been installed with the internal regulator charging a single deep cycle battery, as my engine had a spare pulley that had previously been used to drive a long deceased fridge compressor. This is all I've needed up to this point for a house battery.
    I like the redundancy having two alternators gives and also keeping the start battery isolated from the stereo and lights etc at all times.
    I pretty much rewired the boat entirely while out on the hard as well, finding out while doing the engine panel why the start battery was always going flat.
    It was wired up so that the engine guages were turned on as soon as the battery isolator was closed. They sat on zero because there was no pressure or temperature to indicate, but were drawing 10 mA each 24/7. It must have been like this since new from the way they were hooked up.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    You told that boat have eaten zincs.
    Maybe its all about your mooring?
    Your boat is moored to concrete pier and if I remerber right you have chain to pier?
    If and there is cracks in the wall= there is rebars open to water, so your boat is like battery.
    I know that someone had very serious damages to aluminium boat docking to old concrete pier.

    It is good policy to have two alternators and 3 main switches to separates and connecting batteries when/if need.
    http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...toid=142457923

    Look like the electricity is problem all over the world, or DIY-men who have idea- connecting continue after smoke go away

    Edit; by the way, I have switch to guide the relay which separates the two charge circuit.
    The switch off, I can start engine without big alternator making load.
    Last edited by Matti; 04-14-2012 at 10:51 AM.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    My zinc problem has gone away. I had a scuba dive a couple of weeks ago to have a look and cleaned the hull up as well.
    The old keel had large areas of mild steel exposed to the seawater, and this is the only thing that I changed so must have been the problem.
    I've got 50 Hp so the second alternator doesn't make a dent at idle.
    THe 3 stage regulator when I get around to fitting it has a 30 second delay built in to let the engine get it's ducks in a row before loading up as well, so this shouldn't be a problem.
    The yacht sitting next to me now has a zinc haging over the side now as well, so they may have been causing me issues as well with stray currents.
    Or I was causing them issues maybe!

  7. #42
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    My zinc problem has gone away. I had a scuba dive a couple of weeks ago to have a look and cleaned the hull up as well.
    The old keel had large areas of mild steel exposed to the seawater, and this is the only thing that I changed so must have been the problem.
    I've got 50 Hp so the second alternator doesn't make a dent at idle.
    THe 3 stage regulator when I get around to fitting it has a 30 second delay built in to let the engine get it's ducks in a row before loading up as well, so this shouldn't be a problem.
    The yacht sitting next to me now has a zinc haging over the side now as well, so they may have been causing me issues as well with stray currents.
    Or I was causing them issues maybe!
    Good to hear that zinc problem has gone!
    My 25hp Vetus go "on knees" at cold start if other alternator make all 70A (best I have seen 76A), on idling about 40A

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    As shown in previous photo's the main cabin interior had to be removed to facilitate the installation of the new floors.
    May Father built a new galley from recycled Kauri, which we installed on the starboard side.



    This had already been done prior to the keel work so had to be removed again.
    The original galley was on the portside as you entered the cabin.



    There was no access behind it to the acres of space under the deck. Also the top of the engine had no access for service, so all of this got ripped out as well.



    A new engine cover was constructed with plenty of noise insulation and nice access was constructed.
    The engine noise from the original engine box was 60 db in the cabin at idle! Starting the engine made a friends baby cry once.
    I've not measured it again since, but in conjunction with the waterlock muffler is significantly quieter.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    A great job Slacko and an excellent writeup !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #45
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Whacko Slacko! Fantastic!

    Rick

  11. #46
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I had a guy walk up to me on the dock and introduced himself having read this thread. He gave me some great feedback not only on Haumuri, but also the thread.
    I kinda thought I wasn't being read that much so hadn't followed up with the stuff I've been doing since last posting, so his comments made me think I should keep it up. I then saw that the number of looks had jumped up when I checked.

    Since the relaunch as predicted the baby took up heaps of time, but I pottered away on the interior.
    No photo's of progress at this stage as they are on my laptop which isn't in front of me at the moment.
    So, I enjoyed some harbour sailing with a few Friday night Rum Races and a couple of other races with predictable results for a yacht that has never been raced with a pickup crew.
    I'm getting better at accepting the positive comments about Haumuri without pointing out all the faults still to be rectified.
    The biggest criticism from everyone was the state of my topside paint.
    I was avoiding it because it was 2 pack that was flaking badly and needed to be stripped right back before proceeding. She is a total of 90 feet counting both sides, luckily low freeboard so not as bad as it could be.
    In Feb each year is the 3 day club regatta, with the 2013 one doubling up as the IRC and PHRF nationals for Keelboats. It is always a good regatta, so I thought I would enter.
    I formed a list of jobs to do to get her up to scratch.
    November is a quiet month, so I had her lifted out for bottom paint and tackling of the list of jobs, altering the waterline and installing the lifelines being the 2 major jobs.
    Again, everyone who strolled past commented how I must be doing the topsides as well.





























    OK, so I bit.
    Looking pretty good here.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    [IMG][/IMG]

    This was after 4 days of hard out sanding.
    After the first day I went to the tool shop and got a new sander. Cost was not the issue at this stage.
    "Give me the best one you have" was the call.
    My throbbing arms carried the Festool ETS150 5 mm out to the car with a pile of 40 grit pads stacked on top.
    It got the job done, but the paint was seriously tough to get through even though flaky.
    Only using the sander since on soft things like Oak and stuff have I realised how much punch it has.
    There were a few cracks in the glass on timber glue joins, so these were sanded back to wood and the Fein dug the crack open so I could get some West thickened with glue powder into it. A patch of 200 gsm cloth over it, some fairing and move onto the next one.
    In my future is a complete strip back and much heavier cloth over the whole lot. 2 layers of Triaxial was what the boatbuilder who did some work for me was talking about. Basically making a structural shell rather than ding protection I have now.
    I need to get some happy time out of the old girl first though.

    Using the rain radar from the NZ Metservice I got it painted in reasonable time to a 2 metre finish using the International Toplac single pack system.
    Quite happy with the paint after initial operator error problems, with the technique being slightly different to using their 2 pack system with the foam rollers.
    I then Hired a lazer and tripod from the local hireshop to set the waterline for the antifoul. Again once I figured out how to use the lazer it proved itself on relaunch, with the waterline just where I wanted it. I lifted the bow a little on advice picked up here.

    That is enough for one post.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I just caught up with this thread. Fantastic job, Slacko. She's lucky to have you as her owner.


    Steven

  13. #48
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    OK, so no photo's of the last haulout work seem to have been taken.
    The other work accomplished was;
    Installed the stern and bow rails, including new LED nav lights, then rigging the lifelines.
    Wooded and varnished with Uroxsys the handrails and other shiny bits.
    Sanded and touched up all the bits of paint that got dinged on deck.
    Bored a 3" hole in the keel as a well to install an automatic bilge pump. My flat bilge made even a litre of water appear like a sinking incident sloshing around and was impossible to suck up.
    Repainted part of the FWD cabin.
    New anodes were installed but the price of them had doubled in the 2 years since the last lot were purchased.
    I bought 1 and took a plaster of Paris mould.
    Using the lead melting gear I still have from making the new keel I melted the 2 old ones and had enough for a bit left over after casting 1 unit.
    I heated the mould up in the yacht oven for 2 hours to make sure it was dry.
    Other than a small timber fire from the pot windshield I had made to keep the heat in due to strong winds, and a bit of an overflow into the wooden box I had made around the mould it went pretty well.
    I also found an old anode off a large commercial vessel that will provide next years anodes.
    I reglassed the bottom edge of my rudder which needed a bit of attention.
    Installed a car stereo and speakers.
    Installed some Halogen lights in the FWD cabin that were $10 each at the chandlery . I will change these to LED lamps once I get around to it. They are not getting a lot of use at the moment so not up the list.
    This was done in about a month, 1 week taken off, then time after work and weekends.

    I had bought a new overlapping genoa during the year due to my tawdry light wind performance, and the Main was pretty baggy too.
    I took it into the sailmakers for a bit of a tune-up as they are in the yard where I haul out.
    It was going to cost $600 for a major recut, and they were having a 20% off new sails promotion.
    I made the right decision and got a nice new main.
    What a transformation! She points higher and goes faster to windward with less heel. Obvious stuff, but still awesome to experience the change.

    I ended up not doing the regatta on my yacht due to the crew all needing to be club members, and the cost of that for 3 days racing.
    The same guys have been racing with me since, and are joining the club when finances allow and they feel happy that they are going to stick with it for awhile.
    Once we started racing every week, the weak links in the sailing gear start to appear.
    I have no problem with this, as I would rather the traveller block explode going to windward in a race with 6 guys on board than crossing Cook Strait with my wife and family. It hung in there until the top mark and we managed to fix it on the next downwind leg with some spares on board.
    I seemed to be going up the mast before every race for awhile with the track for the main giving a bit of grief.
    The overlapper was not performing and it took me awhile to figure out that I needed the sheeting point to be back off the end of the tracks. I fitted some fixed blocks back by the winches and I've got some tweekers set up.
    We've had a practice sail and it's looks promising finally.
    The winter series for the club starts in 2 weeks, so I need to rerig the downhaul for the spinnaker pole and get up the mast again to fix the VHF aerial that has a wobbly mount and hits the wind indicator.
    A patch of rot has appeared in the cockpit seat that is now needing urgent attention.
    I will take the opportunity to install a cockpit locker to access the space underneath that isn't useable from the cabin.
    I've been looking on the forum and scouring everywhere I can to try to find the best design and avoid the pitfalls.

    I will take photo's of this and a couple of other jobs coming up, as I like looking at them as much as the rest of you.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    A patch of rot has appeared in the cockpit seat that is now needing urgent attention.
    I will take the opportunity to install a cockpit locker to access the space underneath that isn't useable from the cabin.
    I've been looking on the forum and scouring everywhere I can to try to find the best design and avoid the pitfalls.
    I'll try to remember to take a photo of Masina's lockers next weekend for you Slacko. They work really well. They're essentially a modification of the Maurice Griffiths design but the water channel runs down to an opening in the side of the cockpit. The cockpit seats also drain into the channel around the locker so all the water from the seats drains into the cockpit, and the lockers can't leak at all. The lockers are flush with the seats so it's all comfortable.

    Rick

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Nice to see this thread still going Slacko, inspirational.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

  16. #51
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I did a google search of cockpit lockers and was led back to the forum.
    The first photo in the second post is what I am going to try to recreate.
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...n-construction
    The information is all here, but dredging it back up is the problem.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    That's the same system as we have on Masina. Good, no need to take photos! That's a good system!
    Rick

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    What are the lids made from?

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Did you read the link for the sister ship I posted for you a month or two back?

  20. #55
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacko View Post
    What are the lids made from?
    Framed plywood, glassed.
    Rick

  21. #56
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I don't venture out of this part of the forum, so thanks for the heads up John.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This is how she was after the big haulout






    Taken last Sunday during a winter series race in Wellington. Finally got a shot with the sails up.

    The exterior is pretty finished now after the month on the hardstand in November last year.
    I sanded and painted the topsides,
    fitted the pulpits, stanchions and lifelines,
    fitted some nice Garhauer deck blocks for the spinnaker rigging,
    sanded all the varnish back to wood, and finished with Uroxsys,
    new mainsail,
    new graphics,
    and just in shot, the new to me spinnaker!
    New crew too, we got around the course without breaking anything and had a respectable top half of fleet finish.
    The thirst of the crew after was a revelation though. They polished off a litre of rum before the fries arrived at the yacht club.
    Fine tuning of the running rigging has been a bit of a headscratcher at times. Some blocks have already been moved, and new ones added. This is going to continue for a while still as we work through how to get things working best.
    Last edited by Slacko; 07-02-2013 at 05:21 AM.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Wow, I just read this entire thread. Very nice job, and amazing stamina...!!

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  24. #59
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The punky bit in the corner of the cockpit was leaking badly, and the race crew were getting worried about stepping through it.
    We screwed a pit of 6 mm ply over it for the last race but I decided it was time.




    The construction of multimillion dollar apartments on the wharf next to the marina is annoying lots of boaties, as you can see from all the crap on the paintwork. It will clean off, but normally the boat is self cleaning.
    Grr, our revenge will be setting our halyards up to ring on the mast until the end of time.

    This area appeared fine when I painted the yacht 2-3 years ago during the extended haulout.
    I'm hoping that I don't keep finding bits like this, but am sure it won't be the last of it.
    There are two spots on the toerail that need attention, but can they can wait until the next trip to the yard.
    This is being done on the water.
    On inspection I found a join in the ply deck, so that became the cut point regardless of how far the rot extended.
    The deck had felt a bit soft underfoot for a while, but there was no evidence to be seen as it was travelling in the inner layers.



    An hour later.
    The Fein multitool earned it's keep separating the Teak trim from the ply without disturbing the trim.
    The supporting timber was sound apart from one end in the corner, so this was cut back with a scarf. A new bit was planed down to size ready to be installed.
    I was planning to get it cut out, new timber cut and glued back in on the same day.
    The support timber was too wet for epoxy, so I had to screw the ply down and tape up to give it time to dry.
    There is now a massive yellow duct tape patch covering the whole thing, and I will get back to it next weekend after being away for work for the week.
    Racing next Sunday again, so a quick inspection on Saturday week will tell me if it has dried out enough to epoxy the panel down. Some fast hardener will be OK for the next day racing!
    I'm thinking it will need a bit more time though.
    I've heard you can use solvents or something to pull the moisture out. I hope someone can give me a process for this.
    I was going to put a nice wooden hatch in this hole to access some storage and the bilge pump from the cockpit. After looking at the space the pump and hose take up, I'm going to fit a hinged access hatch for servicing the pump only.

    We've got 35 gusting 45 knot winds tonight so the 2 handed racing tomorrow has already been cancelled.
    The forecast is for more of the same.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I don't think there's any product that will either draw out or nullify moisture in timber. The only way I know is to get heat into it. The boat's looking great!

    Rick

  26. #61
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Alcohol will remove surface water, but nothing deeper than maybe 1/16" at most. I agree that heat is best - though it can take a while.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Hmm not much heat outside at the moment. The windows are being lashed with rain, 25 knots of wind with the highest gust in the last hour 38 knots.

    1/16 of an inch is enough for the epoxy to bond to.
    I won't get to it again until next weekend so I will hit it with some isopropyl, then blow a heatgun on it until I feel good about it.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I removed the plywood repair piece that had been screwed down and taped up to keep it dry a couple of days ago.
    Big fail with the tape, antiskid doesn't play nicely with adhesive tape so it was pretty wet under there.
    The panel went into the boatshed that has a dehumidifier running 24/7, so that was nice and dry yesterday.
    Shame I can't get the whole yacht in there, things would be a lot simpler.
    I sprayed some 70% ethanol on the wood a few times and wiped it up yesterday, and left it overnight with a tarpaulin over it to keep the dew off it.
    This morning it didn't look too much different, so I set up a small heater underneath with the tarp sitting over the outside to keep it warm.
    I used up the last of the ethanol spraying it around and leaving it to evaporate a couple of times. Slow progress.
    I spent the time mounting a double clutch on a piece of 316 SS screwed to the boom for the outhaul and 1st reefing line. The race crew will appreciate this I think.
    The single I took off I am thinking about mounting on the cabintop for the heavy end of the double ended mainsheet. The mainsheet trimmer is struggling to get it out of the cleat when loaded up. The other end is connected to a second multiple purchase system to give easy fine adjustment which works great.
    I escalated the drying regime to using epoxy thinners, and this with the sun coming out hitting the wet spots seemed to do the trick.
    So I wet the panel and everything that it was going to be glued to with resin, and then thickened another batch up with the West 406 powder and got it glued in.
    1/2 a dozen screws to hold it down until it goes off, and then painted the ply panel with resin to seal it all up. Hopefully next week I can get it sanded back, get some fibreglass cloth onto it and get it ready for some paint.
    I would rather have got the cloth on immediately, but I ran out of time. Getting it watertight was the key thing today.
    I still have to replace the upright panel that joins in that corner FWD before painting, but that will be easier to keep dry during the process.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Hi Craig - I've only just seen this. Great to have it documented! Might need you as a consultant when working on Atalanta's keel

  30. #65
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Hi Gav - Yeah probably worth checking the keelbolts on a 120 year old yacht!!
    No pressing reason for it to come off other than that? The photo's look like she could go back in the water with a lick of paint. Obviously that won't be the case, but it looks like someone was fairing the topsides getting her ready for primer.


    I've had some time during the last 2 days to work on the cockpit.
    Yesterday I removed the ply beneath the instrument panel that was rotten at the bottom.
    I had to scarf a small piece into the support frame then got a new piece glued into place, and painted it with resin to waterproof it.
    It started to rain as I was mixing the glue, so quickly got the tarp on and got it done anyway.

    Today I sanded back resin on the cockpit seat ply I replaced on Saturday, the stuff I did yesterday was still green so I left it alone.
    I got 2 layers of 200 GSM cloth down over it, and I will need to fill it up to the level of the rest of the cockpit.
    The cause of this is that she is built with imperial thickness ply (10 or so mm) and I am using 9 mm to replace it with.
    I was trimming down a panel that is part of the entrance steps today and the quality of ply is simply not available these days.
    It was 7 equal thickness layers compared to what I'm seeing now being 3 or 4 thick layers and 2 very thin outer veneers.

    I managed to get my rear mooring line tangled in the prop this morning getting off the wall and alongside the wharf. I was just in gear at idle so the engine slowed down and I kicked it out of gear.
    After seeing that I was definitely hooked up, I put it in FWD briefly. The line drifted back up, so I grabbed it with the boathook to check if there was anything missing, ie wrapped around the shaft.
    No damage, so I guess I should be buying a Lotto ticket this weekend!

  31. #66
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I hauled out for the annual spruce up a couple of weeks ago now.
    I noticed the last time I Scuba dived for an antifoul wipe that the keel had a few rough patches so I knew that I was in for a strip back (again). The steel tank sat too long after construction with a couple of coats of 2 pot primer after being grit blasted and I been having pinhole rust issues pushing the antifoul off.
    As you can see the rest of the hull could have gone a bit longer in the water.
    So, I sanded it back with the Hitachi and 32 grit paper. It only took an hour each side, stopping to get some Epoxy primer over the bare steel before it started rusting.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I put a total of 4 coats of epoxy primer over it and got the first antifoul coat onto the primer while it was still going off so I got a chemical bond. Better luck next time.
    I took a week off work to get some of the repairs that were required to be done, but off course it rained for 3 of those days, so the list got shortened, due to the start of the race season this weekend.

    I did manage to get the repairs that I had started in the water almost finished, after multiple layers of glass cloth to build the ply thickness up to the old imperial ply thickness.



    A good spread of filler, some sanding and a couple of coats of my favourite epoxy primer have it looking ready for paint then insertion of plastic hatch for the manual bilge pump access.
    The plumbing for this made me realise that I wasn't going to get a very useable cockpit locker, so I scrubbed the plan to put a nice wooden locker in there.
    I've also got another plastic hatch that instead of hinging open the panel removes completely. I'm going to put this one in the verticle panel to give access to the engine controls. I'll rebuild the control panel behind to suit the different shape and install a rev counter I picked up.

    I also managed to prep and paint the fwd section of the bilge under the forward bunk while it was raining outside. It came up pretty good with the International Toplac single pack range.





    I also was hoping to install a folding propeller I had bought 2nd hand. Unfortunately it clashed with the rudder support when folded.
    I'm now in the market for a feathering propeller rather than folding.
    Big step up in cost, so have been looking round online. I
    got one eyewatering quote for $5500 NZ, so will be looking around for awhile longer!
    The fixed 2 blader went back on with plenty of peller clean splashed onto it in the meantime(6 hour process with 5 coats).
    I went back into the water yesterday, so am ready as I can be for the start of the race season.
    My list of jobs just gets longer, but I just keep looking at the top of the list and enjoying getting some sailing.
    I guy that is refurbing a big cruising cat that started at the same time as I did is still 2-3 months away, and is using me coming out for antifoul again as inspiration that he will get it done one Day!

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    26,050

    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Looking good! Keep an eye out for propellers on eBay. Still not cheap, but less than new.

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Auckland ,N.Z.
    Posts
    24,984

    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I might be an appropriate case for a kiwiprop slacko. They seem to have their reverse problems sorted out now (I understand).

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wongawallan Oz
    Posts
    15,248

    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I might be an appropriate case for a kiwiprop slacko. They seem to have their reverse problems sorted out now (I understand).
    might induce a bit of drag though:

    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

    "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great!"

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