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Thread: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

  1. #211
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I've measured the Nissan and the Ford for comparison.
    The Nissan is;
    40mm lower, although the high point is at the front not the middle so probably a line ball for comparison,
    80mm shorter, so this may compensate for the taller front as well by sliding it back down the angle of installation,
    250mm narrower, which is significant as the offset cabin access is tight around the side of the motor.

    I'm toying with the idea of changing to a central cabin hatch, but will decide once I see it installed.
    The engine reconditioner I've spoken to thinks I will be saving about 100kg in weight.
    The engine mounts will take a bit of thought.
    The front ones will need steel fabrications using the bolt holes in the block.
    The very solid rear ones on the Ford are mounted on the Bell housing that Lees fabricated when they did the marinization.
    The Nissan has 4-5 unused bolt holes around the bottom semicircle of the bellhousing.
    I'm thinking about a 10mm vertical flat plate picking up those, welded and webbed to some heavy box section across the plate sitting on the engine bearers.
    The current setup is solid mounted, but I'm planning to use rubber mounts.
    This weekend I'll start stripping the Ford, aiming to get the head off for inspection and final decision on how bad it is.

  2. #212
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I was chatting with another yachtie yesterday about Haumuri's engine woes and the possibility of a used Volvo being available.
    He looked at a yacht with one in it to purchase that was 120 hp, and crapped out while out for a sea trail on a Pacific Island somewhere.
    It took a month for the engineers to sort it out, with a multitude of engine codes to trawl through. It turned out to be the low pressure diesel pump.
    He said Volvo have a pretty poor reputation around the Pacific with the charter guys and boat yard experts.

  3. #213
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Lots of stories about the green death, but they're invariably modified versions of another engine anyway. But yes, the dealers /parts /servicing in this country is the big negative.

  4. #214
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Today I spent some time stripping the old engine down, Partly to see what went wrong, and partly to make the engine easier to remove. Some almost before shots once I remembered to take some.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

  5. #215
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    It came apart surprisingly easily.
    I think it hasn't been touched since it got put in 45 years ago, because even though it looks like this on the surface, all the bolts are coming out shiny and clean.
    [IMG]
    Sorry, this one came out shaky, but the bores were clean and looked like normal wear, bit of a ridge but hey.
    [IMG]
    I wound it over and the other 2 cylinders looked the same.
    [IMG]
    The head looks OK with uniform colour through the 4 combustion chambers.
    I was starting to wonder if I had missed something like a water pump bearing or something.
    I then rocked the crank back and forward through the top of the stroke with the 2 middle cylinders up.
    Number 2 came up and smoothly dropped back down.
    Number 3 stopped and sat there for a few degrees or rotation.
    There was also a bit of a clunk while doing this too.
    So, it is the bottom end that is where the damage is.
    Apparently it must be pretty bad to be able to see it.
    You can see the sunlight hitting the wall of cylinder 4 in the last shot with some shadow, showing where the top ring stops at the ridge.

    I've now had 2 boaties say that they would not use the engine reconditioner that I've spoken to.
    They both had work done that had mistakes, and he wouldn't take responsibility.
    I may keep looking.

  6. #216
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I've been working on the Nissan in the garage.
    The shed it is in does not have access for a trailer to lift the engine in, and it is uphill to the road.
    I've put wheels on the pallet so it can be dragged up the hill with a winch.
    I've been advised that long term storage of a diesel engine will not cause internal damage, so I am getting it set up to run it.
    After a bit of runtime, I'll measure compression and assess how difficult it is to start. I'll then decide if it needs a freshen up before installation.
    I brought home one of my start batteries from Haumuri and it is absolute toast. The other newer one was clearly doing all the work.
    Once that and the garden hose are connected, and the fuel hoses are dropped into a Gerry can I'm ready to annoy the neighbours!

    I need to figure a rear engine mount.
    The current setup has a very robust steel bellhousing with beefy mounts attached.
    I'm seeing 2 options for the new engine;
    1, Making up a plate that picks up the bottom half of the new bell housing bolts as mentioned.
    2, The Borg Warner Velvet drive has "mounting bolt holes" in both sides that look viable. The service manual calls them that, so I'm wondering if these can be utilised.

    Either option is about the same amount of work I would expect.

  7. #217
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Yesterday I wheeled the engine outside, got a battery and fuel container hooked up, then set up the garden hose into a bucket with the raw water inlet hose sucking out of it.
    It turned over OK but would not fire.
    I spent a bit of time bleeding the injectors, but wasn't getting much action. I blew out the lines to make sure they were clear (one was gummed up, but it cleared OK)
    That night I found information online that the injection pump needed to be bleed first via some screws in the side.
    I had an extra day off today to make a 4 day weekend, so I got rid of the air from the injector pump and bleed the injectors again. Now I was getting white smoke from the engine, but no life.
    I then disconnected and tested the glow plugs. They all were high resistance, so back online to find a supplier for a new set.
    I had to wait until about 3:30pm to get the call to pick them up, so $80 later I hooked 1 up directly to the battery to see how long it took to heat up. Sweet, 5 seconds.
    Once installed with cleaned up contacts, I gave it a try and the engine immediately burst into life as if it had last been started a week ago.
    I worked out that my Dad bought the engine and test ran it 15 years ago.
    It idled a bit rough for 20 seconds then settled down pretty steady.
    It was then that I noticed the smell of something getting hot at the front.
    The alternator wasn't spinning and the belt was sending up smoke signals.
    I stripped it down and freed it up. The iron in the coil had a little surface rust that was jamming it.
    So I'm ready for another test tomorrow, and I will give it a longer run.
    It starts better than the Ford ever did.
    I guess you get a win every now and then, even in 2020!

  8. #218
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    A quick vid of a warm start after flushing the crud out of the water system, running with some flushing snake oil and refilling with the nice green stuff.

    https://www.facebook.com/639773459/v...7884141658460/

    Sorry about the quality there!
    I also fitted new gauges for temp and pressure (3.5 Bar at idle).

  9. #219
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Noice!
    http://fairmaid.blogspot.com.au/

    "It's dawning on me that I should have worked out the tumbler details more in advance, rather than rely on bluster and over confidence. But that's just silly." Jim Ledger.

  10. #220
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Nice one Slacko - i was going to the pressure from the injector pump, but clearly i give in too quickly.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  11. #221
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The injector pump pressure was the next area that I was looking at if the glow plugs were not successful.
    I bought them from a specialist diesel mechanic, so I got lots of free encouragement and advice along with the plugs.
    He said the injectors don't squirt that much out when cracked open, think about how little fuel they use in an hour of running.

    I'm now figuring out how to find and fit a V belt pulley to the more modern 90 amp alternator that I plucked from a Nissan Sentra at the wreckers.
    It is the correct body style, but has a multigroove pulley.
    The unit on the motor is 30 amps, which I don't see keeping the beer cold in summer.

  12. #222
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I got the engine mounts manufactured by one of my mates. A bottle of rum and a box of beer should cover it. They are 10mm thick plate to give scale.

    [IMG]

    In the photo the "Zinc it" is partly dry, which is why they look patchy.
    I love this stuff, especially the touch dry after 20 minutes.
    I did some work in an ammonia plant, where we sprayed 316L stainless pressure transmitters with it so they didn't get eaten by the ammonia fumes. Anything that protects stainless gets my vote.
    I've since given them the first coat of enamel topcoat. 4 hours touch dry, Boo!

  13. #223
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I've also ordered online the correct pulley for the alternator.
    I just have to wait for it to arrive.
    Covid has dried up the supply of lots of things in NZ.
    I also need to get rubber mounts sorted tomorrow.
    Once these things are here, I'm ready to haul out and get on with it.

  14. #224
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The engine mounts on the engine have been fitted.
    The Port side one took a bit of work as the guys who marinised the engine used the forward most set of engine mount holes for the raw water pump mounting.
    The alternator bracket was also in the way.

    [IMG]
    It's all pretty tight in there, but I've shimmed the raw water pump so the pulleys line up nicely, and made a bracket from the pump mounting plate to the engine mount since this shot to hold it in place.
    I'm now figuring out how to make the belt tensioner. The one that was on it was rudimentary and almost impossible to adjust.

    This is a shot of the front showing the "new" alternator and it's pulley.

    [IMG]

    The pulley needed a bit of a spin on a lathe to make clearance at the back, but it fitted without having to move the mounting for the alternator which was a bonus.
    It is all loosely fitted in the shot with a bit of "zinc it" sprayed on the fresh water pump pulley.
    Once I've finished the raw water pump tensioner and buttoned up all the loose ends I give it another run to make sure it is still functional.
    I'm going to fit the new gearbox mountings while the old engine is still in the boat. This will give me the basic shaft alignment once the old engine is removed.
    I'll take the gearbox out as well and give it a cleanup and oil change. The oil cooler for this is going to need new pipework and the cooling circuit needs to be incorporated into the raw water system for the new engine. This can be worked out once it is all refitted.

  15. #225
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    That is tight in there. Too bad you had to do so much fiddling - but glad you got it sorted!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  16. #226
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Well, the belt tensioner now works with a screwdriver slot cut on the end of some M10 rod and a locknut once adjusted.
    I next went to the boat and started looking at the gearbox mounting brackets.
    The oil cooler was in the way so I took that off and brought it home.
    One of the steel pipes to the gearbox crumbled completely with a touch from a spanner.
    That was the next breakdown!

    This shows the cooler with the end caps off for a cleanout.

    [IMG]
    I've bunged the fittings to stop the oil dripping.

    The after photo showing shiny paint, new anodes and the remote oil filter arrangement on the bench.
    Not having the filter mounted upside down will save potential leaks into the engine bilge.

    [IMG]
    The AN10 and AN8 hose fittings, while not cheap probably work out about the same as brass hose tails (if you can find some), and are easily removable once fitted without battling hose clamps and rubber that has moulded to the hose tail.
    Shiny Too!

  17. #227
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Nice clean up, well done.
    must feel satisfying!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  18. #228
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Yep, the gearbox needs a similar tidy up too.
    Once the mountings for it are done, I'll probably pull the engine with the gearbox attached.
    I can then tidy it up and make sure it fits the new engine bell housing and thrust plate.
    Apparently they were set up for the gearbox.

    I met up with some of my old racing crew for drinks last week.
    They have been sailing a Ross 40 for a year or so in Auckland.
    The boat is now in Picton, just across Cook Strait so I suggested we do a regatta over summer on her.
    That wasn't going to work, but I now have a deadline of a regatta for Haumuri in Feb so I better kick on!

  19. #229
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Today I managed to get the starboard side gearbox mounting bracket drilled and bolted to the gearbox in the boat.
    There will need to be some cutouts into it for clearance to the rubber mounts.
    [IMG]
    As the mounting holes on the gearbox are basically in the same plane as the engine bearers I needed to turn the mounts upside down to get enough space for the rubber mounts. Fiddly for the bolts, but once in there they shouldn't have to come out again.
    In the background is the scruffy looking gearbox, and the pipe to the oil cooler sitting above. That is the "good" one!

    I also spent some time sanding and varnishing the solid floor out of a 3 metre inflatable I was given a few months ago.
    It has been sitting in the rafters of a garage for 20 years.
    I blew it up and it held air for a week or so!
    This is the floor mostly sanded. It has a rubber hinge between the 3 sections.
    [IMG]

    I got a turps thinned coat of varnish on it, which confirmed that it is mahogany plywood.

    [IMG]
    The lighter piece nailed onto it is to locate the seat and is made of Kauri. This makes me think it was added at some stage as the dinghy is English made. The seat is 25mm thick Oak boards. So no expense was spared with materials at the time.
    I already have a 2.7 m inflatable, so one of them will be for sale. I like the quirkiness of this one and it has proper oarlocks and nice wooden oars, so at this stage the Quicksilver one may be sold at some stage.

  20. #230
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    A few weeks ago after the last time I ran the engine outside the garage I noticed a day or so later that the exhaust was still dripping.
    I put a cup under it to check what it was. That evening when I checked, it was green. This means engine coolant in the raw water somehow.
    I suspected the "Savage" branded heat exchanger which are pretty standard NZ made gear. I took it to the radiator shop to get it pressure tested and sure enough it was the culprit. While bad it was less bad than the water jacket on the exhaust manifold, which is custom made for the engine.
    The guy said the cooler pre-dated the current owners of Savage, so was at least 20 years old and had some cores sealed in the past that had leaked.
    It could have had 2 more cores sealed, but there was no guarantee when it would fail again.
    I opted for the safer but eye wateringly expensive option of a new exchanger.
    It arrived this afternoon.
    [IMG]

    It is Nickel plated with a header tank and cap on it.
    Without the tank would have been cheaper, but I'm happier with the extra water capacity. The other system only seemed to hold about 1 1/2 litres.
    I'll mount it on the side of the engine box with the cap as the highest part of the water circuit, which will allow me to lower the total height of the engine as the old cap was sticking up in the air at the front. With the engine tilted back when installed it was probably going to be a problem.

  21. #231
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Nice!
    I would rather have doubt than be certain and wrong.
    Richard Feynman.

  22. #232
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. I agree that this was one of those times - but sorry it hits the wallet so hard!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  23. #233
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Bit of an update.
    I've been working on the old engine getting it ready for removal, disconnecting stuff and preparing for the new engine.
    I finally got the 2 gearbox engine mounts fitted with the rubber mounts coach screwed to the engine beds.

    [IMG]
    There is a bit more real estate with the engine box disassembled!

    [IMG]
    The solid mounted old bellhousing mount is quite a piece of work.

    [IMG]

    I then started moving the wiring around to suit the new engine. The starter and alternator are on the opposite side of the engine, so I moved the start battery to the other side as well to keep the wire lengths down.

  24. #234
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I installed a new bank of battery isolator switches that included a Voltage sensing relay module so I can charge both banks from one alternator.
    I managed to get it done without needing new cables which is a nice bonus.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    The orange are the house batteries, and the blue are the start battery. The stud for the negative is to provide the small gauge negative connection to the VSR. I also traced and labelled all the other engine wiring for quick connection when ready.

    This morning two of us sailed from the marina around to the yard for liftout. The departure was complicated by me not checking how my buddy had run the jib sheets, but we got out without contact with anything. We managed to turn her around on the wharf before going into the travel lift by hand in reverse.
    This means that the bum is sticking out to allow a hiab to get in the cabin to pick/place the motors.
    I seem to have sold the old engine today to someone in the yard to rebuild for a launch project. This means I don't have to move it from the yard!
    I cut off the two front bolts into the engine beds today.
    Tomorrow is the back 2 and the shaft coupling. That is looking like a job for a small contortionist, but will get done somehow!

  25. #235
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This morning I cut the 2 rear engine mount nuts, and drove the bolts down as they had nut at the bottom of the engine beds.
    I then had to remove the rear bulkhead of the engine box to get access to the prop shaft nuts.
    I ended up cutting the heads of these off with the disc cutter as well.
    So the engine is free to come out finally.
    I then started opening up the rear of the cockpit.
    The panel is partially removed.
    [IMG]

    Now, this is an opening to get an engine in and out of!
    [IMG]

    I promise that I'm tidying up as I go, but there seems to be a mountain of gear required to get this job done.

    [IMG]

    The cylinder head is sitting in the middle of the floor in the plastic bin.
    We are planning to lift out tomorrow with the travel lift as I think there is enough forward clearance over the engine to pick it out of the cabin.
    Yay, tomorrow.

  26. #236
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    It is remarkable just how much gear is needed, isn't it? Looks like good progress!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  27. #237
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This morning we lifted the engine out.
    Up a little, turn sideways to get the end of the gearbox out from under the cockpit, up a bit more and out.
    We then had to put it down on scaffold planks and reposition the strops to be behind the split backstay.
    [IMG]
    The load levelling bar was excellent. The centre of the lift was much further back than anticipated and was easily levelled out.
    Then up and away.

    [IMG]
    Pretty big engine hoist!

    I was then presented with this mess!
    [IMG]

  28. #238
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    A scraper, rags and some elbow grease got me to this.

    [IMG]

    I then noticed that the fiberglass lined box was held in with 4 screws.
    They were removed to reveal more goopy goodness!

    [IMG]
    Another session with the scraper and a bucket got most of it out, but I decided cleaning that up ready for paint required more supplies.

    I detached the gearbox from the engine and took it home.
    It is getting a wire brush and scraper treatment ready for rust converter then paint.
    [IMG]

    I was happy that the flexidrive plate for the new engine does fit.

    [IMG]
    I think this bodes well for the bellhousing to have the correct stud pattern, but that will have to wait until another day.

  29. #239
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Was the fibreglass sump/box leaking or busted to create that mess? Or is it from something else?
    Larks

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    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  30. #240
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    The sump held water. Quite a bit of it at times due to the leak above it caused by some rot in the bottom of the panel I removed for engine access. Just a small side job.
    The grease is from the shaft log grease connection.
    Supposedly you give it a pump every time you use the engine.

  31. #241
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Last evening I got the rust converter on the gearbox, but the surface was too greasy still for it to work. I left it to dry.
    This morning I took it outside and sprayed it with water soluble degreaser, scrubbed and rinsed. Then sprayed, scrubbed and rinsed again.

    The rest of the day was a variation on that theme.
    The bilge got a spray with a multi surface cleaner, scrubbed, wiped out with rags, Then I did it again. I then sprayed it with Hypochlorite to remove any mold that may have been hanging around. I was trying to get the bulk of it off without spreading it down into the bilge.
    I then scrubbed it with soapy water for a while. Finally it got a hose off with water, which went down to the bilge pump to deal with.

    Tadah!
    [IMG]
    The black on the timber in the foreground is backing off the sound deadening.
    The last thing I did after it dried was a coat of primer. Looking better.

    When I got home, I recoated the gearbox with rust converter with much superior results.

    [IMG]
    It will end up as a uniform matt black colour, except for the scraps of Orange paint that are actually stuck to it! there are at least 4.
    I'll spray it with zinc-it as a primer then a couple of coats of the engine enamel I've been using on the engine.

  32. #242
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This morning I primed the gearbox ready for topcoat.
    At the boat I got 2 topcoats on the bilge under the engine.
    Then I splashed some rust converter onto a few bare patches on the keel. There is much less of this required after the grit blasting a few years ago.
    I then wet sanded the entire hull antifoul (fav job ever on boats).
    Next I refitted the house battery box which had come out for painting underneath as well. I also reinstalled the sump tray which didn't get snapped.

    [IMG]
    This will need to come out again as I will coach bolt and glue the blocks that I'm presuming will be needed to get the front mounts at the right height. That is also why I didn't paint the tops of the bearers, as I don't know where they are going to land yet.
    I coach bolted the 2 rear blocks down as well with 200mm long coachbolts to give an idea of the depth of the engine bearers.
    When I got home the first topcoat got sprayed on. Looking like new.

  33. #243
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    This morning was meant to be putting a second coat of epoxy primer on the keel, then while that was going off for a few hours, antifoul the rest of the hull, then antifoul the keel.
    After that home to get the engine mated to the gearbox.
    Well, we got rain! In Wellington!
    It was only mostly spitting and I could have probably got away with it, but I retired to the shed after scouring the suppliers for a few bits.
    Low pressure fuel line is in short supply in Wellington apparently. I did track some down to replace the return line to the keel tank.
    It had also perished after 10 years like the supply line.

    So, I got the gearbox mated to the bellhousing after a bit of a cleanup.
    I then measured where the gearbox drive spline was going to sit in the flexi-drive plate, all good.
    I then got the two gearbox mounts back on the gearbox. I ended up putting helicoils thread replacements in the threads as they didn't feel secure.
    I then got the gearbox bolted up to the engine, ready to go to the yard for installation.
    [IMG]

    I have hired a trailer with a ramp on it to make the loading easier, so hopefully the weather will play nicer tomorrow.
    It may end up getting stashed in a shed at the yard until an opening in the weather for the lift.

  34. #244
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    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    I got the engine down to the yard but not lifted in.
    The weather was pretty blechh, so I spent some time making a new bracket for the gear linkage on the gearbox.
    I picked up a sheet of plywood on the way home while I had a trailer.
    $145 for 1 sheet of Gaboon, but at least it is 5 equal ply's not 3 with paper thin cover plys on each side like the Meranti was.
    I need the ply to replace the back of the cabin that I removed.
    It's got a bit of rot in the bottom since I installed it 10 years ago. That was one of my first repair jobs I think.

  35. #245
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wellington, NZ
    Posts
    808

    Default Re: A bit of fill and antifoul will sort it out.

    Motor ahoy!
    [IMG]

    I took the backstays off this time so we didn't have to put it down on deck and pick up again.
    It all went smoothly, and dropped to the basic position. I then used a chain block on the boom to wriggle it around and connect the 2 gearbox mounts to the rubber mounts on the engine bearers.

    This is where I got to with the front mounts sitting on wooden blocks and the gearbox couplings within my eye-ometer resolution.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    As I didn't have any hardwood wide enough in my wood stack, I laminated a couple of 70mm wide Saligna timber wedges the correct slope for the front mount.
    I will bolt the rubber mounts directly to the engine mounts, then tap the wooden wedges around until I have the shaft alignment right.
    After that I will glue them into place and bolt through the engine beds once set.
    This engine has enough clearance underneath that I can remove the sump plug before filling with oil, and install pipework with a valve in. This will allow me to drain the oil out of the pan rather than sucking it up the dipstick.
    I checked and the sump plug is 3/8" BSP, so I can start with a tapered elbow.

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