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Thread: Building an Oyster Barge

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    I have made some progress but I am realizing several details I should have worked out sooner. The framing for the bow was challenging for me and below are some pictures. I have built boats from plans- nothing too complicated though, but I designed this and there is more to getting the plan to full size and working out the framing than I was prepared for.






    Last edited by waltwood; 04-10-2012 at 07:16 PM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    You realize your SYP looks like it's all sapwood, don't you? Where'd you get it?


  3. #38
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    It is treated and came from a building supply. Generally they don't treat heartwood because it doesn't absorb the preservative as good.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    OK, Walt..... Where'd you find my father's old saw horses?

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Quote Originally Posted by waltwood View Post
    It is treated and came from a building supply. Generally they don't treat heartwood because it doesn't absorb the preservative as good.
    I didn't realize you used pressure-treated, based on your comments in Post 12. It looks a lot better than our hemlock P/T out here.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    The lumber is not great- I picked through 2 new loads of lumber to just get this small amount I have a good relationship with the lumber yard.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    I am trying to keep this project moving but other work is slowing me down. I made a pattern of the bow transom out of cheaper plywood and allowed me to get the bevels for the sides and the bottom of the bow framing. Also figuring out the notching [ I need a more boat sounding term], for the chines and sheer clamp.



    When Buck helps me build something there is never any scrap left over because he chews them to small splinters!









    The sheer clamp is temporarily clamped in place. I changed the sheerline some- there was not enough freeboard in the stern. The stern transom is not in place yet in this photo.
    Last edited by waltwood; 06-17-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Looks like you could use a workbench out there in the middle of the yard so I'm posting this picture of how I make my workbenches. It looks pretty complicated but after you build the "X" end plates, the rest of it goes together very quick with an impact driver and some deck screws. Also wanted to show you my shop dog, Jo Jo, who's in charge of site security. Like Buck, he goes straight for the pressure treated stuff to chew on but I take it away from him and give him some untreated stuff. Those chemicals in the PT lumber couldn't be good for them.


  9. #44
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Thanks Kenjamin. I like the workbench. Do you use ply for the top? What is the plywood structure beside it?

    I always wanted to build a boat outdoors- be careful what you wish for- Ha. I will probably have to move on one of my workbenches under this building when I really get rolling. The shop is about 60' feet away from the boat but it is going to get old going back and forth. Buck is not much on security- I have another dog for that. I keep him away from the PT wood, he is just eating the molds and set-up wood.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    PT is good for doggy chew toys.... Keeps their insides from rotting out....

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Quote Originally Posted by waltwood View Post
    I am trying to keep this project moving but other work is slowing me down. I made a pattern of the bow transom out of cheaper plywood and allowed me to get the bevels for the sides and the bottom of the bow framing. Also figuring out the notching [ I need a more boat sounding term], for the chines and sheer clamp.


    Housings. You are letting the stringers down into housings.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Always want to know a new boatbuilding term but I am letting the sheer clamp into the housing, that is just a rough 1x laying on top. I was going let in the stringers last because they seemed easier, what do you think?

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    This looks like a good project. I wonder if you do it again if you might dispense with the deadrise. A regular old rake-end barge will tramp the chop out in front as a fine spray. Wet, but, it's a barge, right?
    I see lots of PT yellow pine used in work deck framing in lobsterboats up here in Maine, and it seems to work out pretty well. The ability to bond to wet wood is about the ONLY good thing I have to say about urethane glue, but it does apply. Contrary to some of the comments up above, polyester/glass works pretty well with plywood. I've inspected workboat with polyester/glass over ply work decks that have lasted upwards of 20 years. It doesn't have the peel strength of epoxy, but you're working with big flat surfaces, right?
    The only thing I'd be sure to do is to make sure that water doesn't get in between the sheathing and the ply up at the deck edge. If it were mine I'd wrap the ply right around the deck edge and do the deck too. Finish with gelcoat thickened with cabosil (colloidal silica), which makes a very hard, tough surface.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    I am confused about the term deadrise as I understand it can used in more than one way. If I were starting this boat today I would just make it with a scow or raking bow because of the difficulty I am having figuring the pram style bow I chose. I am still convinced this plan will work though. I am looking for more load carrying ability by moving the waterline forward. Please see pictures of model. After looking at many of the scow type barges they raked back as much as 6' before making contact with the water. This seemed like a waste.
    I thought this was somewhat of an original idea until I visited the Maritime Museum in Annapolis recently and there was a picture from the 1920's of these Oyster boats that were very similar to what I am building except they were much narrower. Also I have seen several houseboat hulls on this forum that are very similar. I saw all of these after coming up with this design. On the fiberglass to plywood I am told repeatedly that it will stick to fir ply, which I am using, much better than to pine ply. I am going to glass the decks too. Thanks for the advice.
    Last edited by waltwood; 04-17-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Deadrise is how much the bottom slopes upward from the keel to meet the sides at the chine. Think it of how much of a "V" the bottom of the boat makes.

    I would say that in the photo above, your hands are working on bending the chine log. The chine is where the the bottom meets the sides, the sheer is the top of the side of the boat in the profile view.

    I like your helper.
    Steve Martinsen

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    My confusion about deadrise is in modern powerboats it seems to only refer to the angle of slope at the transom. The sheer is a point on a boat such as rocker, the sheer clamp is a part of the boat. The chine can be either.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Quote Originally Posted by waltwood View Post
    Thanks Kenjamin. I like the workbench. Do you use ply for the top? What is the plywood structure beside it?

    I always wanted to build a boat outdoors- be careful what you wish for- Ha. I will probably have to move on one of my workbenches under this building when I really get rolling. The shop is about 60' feet away from the boat but it is going to get old going back and forth. Buck is not much on security- I have another dog for that. I keep him away from the PT wood, he is just eating the molds and set-up wood.
    Yep, 3/4" pine ply for the workbench top. The curvy structure is a building form for John Welsford's SCAMP. The building form sets the rocker for the large bottom panel. I can't take Jo Jo to oyster roasts anymore because he likes to chew on oyster shells. What are those crazy dogs thinking? I wonder sometimes. Good luck with the rest of your build.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Deadrise is certainly seen most easily at the transom, but on a vee-hulled boat there's deadrise from the stern all the way forward to where the chine logs join the stem. The deadrise might be uniform throughout, or it may be relatively flatter back aft to make it easier for the boat to plane, and to increase load carrying capacity, and then the deadrise angle might increase further forward, so that the bow doesn't slam into seas. Building a vee-hull is a lot more work and expense than a flat bottom, and for a given length, beam, and draft, the hull has less carrying capacity and initial stability. On a work-platform hull like a barge (or an oyster tonger), initial stability is a really good thing.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    I understand deadrise now, it was about the only boat shape I was unclear about. thank you. I am putting some "V" in this hull for strength and hopefully some better handling in a chop. The "V" will definitely add strength to the hull. With my own experience and observing projects that other people have built, with a completely flat bottom it ends up with a concave area athwartship especially with a beam of this size. I wanted to avoid that and these barges get ebbed out and the flat bottom makes them stick to the mud more. This boat does not have much "V" as you can see in the photo of the model and it is greater forward than aft. I should have called this boat something other than a barge even though that's what it is. It will be powered by an outboard.
    Last edited by waltwood; 04-19-2012 at 07:21 PM.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Walt,

    Deadrise is certainly a misunderstood term. It means different things to different people. What it really means is simply a "dead" rise from one point (the main log, or kelson) to another point (the chine). A straight line with no curve. In other words, a round bilge, round bottom or soft chine boat isn't "deadrise" because it's curved.
    The first time I ever heard someone call a boat a "Deadrise", I thought, Do you mean a skiff or a 40' workboat? He meant a workboat with a cabin up front. That's what deadrise meant to him.
    I looked at a set of plans drawn in 1935 of a proposed "Deadrise" skiff a few weeks ago. The boat was flat-bottom. UUGH!

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Eddiebou,
    Sorry, don't mean to evesdrop (or derail the thread). I sense you may be looking for a Ches. Bay type deadrise skiff. Have you seen Doug Hylan's new concept? He calls it a Point Comfort Skiff based on the Chesapeake Bay style workboats. Just passing that along if that is what you are considering.

    Regards,
    Dave

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Eddie thanks for that treatise on Dead-rise. I never was certain what it meant.

    Someday I'm going to build a Jon boat that I can Row and it's gonna have a dead-rise of about 0.5" out to the sides.
    I don't want it to tip on me. Or under me!

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Eddie, that's where my confusion comes from. In your area and mine they refer to a boat with extreme angle of the bottom in the bow as a "deadrise boat". And now in center consoles and offshore fishing boats they state the angle of deadrise but they are refering to it at the transom.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Going back to the first planing hulls, they were quite flat back aft, which allowed them to plane easily, and then the deadrise angle increased as they went forward. Made them steer better, kept them from pounding in a chop. As hull construction and engines got lighter, boats began going fast enough to leap right out of a wave, and come slamming down on their flat after sections. So deadrise was carried further aft, reaching its greatest development with the Bertram "Moppie" ocean racers, which carry a lot of deadrise (23?) All the way aft. These hulls were remarkable able, but are gas hogs, and have some quirks, like riding around on one chine unless they're perfectly trimmed.
    I remember being hired to deliver a 33' Scarab from Norfolk to Maine, with the owner and a couple of his friends on board. It burned fuel at a rate of about 1.2 gallons per mile, and in a chop it would go 20 knots, but it was not a smooth ride.
    As people become a little more realistic about what they want their boat to do, deadrise angles aft are flattening out, for the sake of fuel economy, ease of handling, etc.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Quote Originally Posted by waltwood View Post
    Eddie, that's where my confusion comes from. In your area and mine they refer to a boat with extreme angle of the bottom in the bow as a "deadrise boat". And now in center consoles and offshore fishing boats they state the angle of deadrise but they are refering to it at the transom.
    Right. It just means V-bottom or deadrise as opposed to flat bottom. The deadrise is everywhere along the bottom, steep at the bow and shallower at the stern. A flatbottom boat has no deadrise. Of course this is only side to side, not fore and aft. The fore and aft curvature is "rocker".
    I remember some boat manufacturer years ago bragging about "variable degree deadrise". Uh, well, it pretty much has to have variable degree in order to have an up and down stem and a flatter stern, doesn't it?
    I certainly am no naval architect, and don't know all the terminology, but it's really just a matter of usage. I know what it means where I come from. I don't feel like it's my place to go around correcting people's language.
    I know one fellow who referres to the "soffit" on a house as- " 'sophagus". I didn't understand what he meant at first, but over time I did. I see no need to correct him.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    There are quite a few hulls that are flat-bottomed aft, and by the time they get to the bow they have vee sections. Even a "model-bow" (pointy ended) barge has deadrise in its forward sections. A Holland 38 lobster boat, which is much admired for its speed and seaworthiness, is almost flat bottomed, with a round chine, aft, and then gradually transitions to a very sharp bow. Mount one of these with a 900 HP MAN engine, and you have the ultimate New England Tuna boat, able to work a couple hundred miles offshore, and capable of 30+ kt of speed.
    It often surprises me what a good boat can be built with a flat bottomed hull. My friend Grant Gambell has a flat bottomed skiff that he uses as a dinghy that rows and tows quite well, and some flat iron skiffs actually sail pretty well on a reach or run. Boats with narrow flat bottoms and flared sides, like a Gloucester Gull or an Adirondack Guide Boat are famously good rowboats. Francis Herreshof designed a flat bottomed skiff for his world cruiser "Marco Polo," and I've rowed and sailed one. Pretty good boat.
    I've read that in the old days there were flat bottomed schooners that carried hay on San Francisco Bay, and that running home empty with a quartering breeze they would walk right by a racing sloop.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Seo, I agree with what you said about flat bottomed boats. I built a 16' sailboat called the flatiron and won several races with it and came in second place at the MASCF one year. And it was definitely the boat not my sailing skills. If you see my reasons for putting a slight "V" in this hull in posts #54, I think it makes sense.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    I have made some progress on this boat, but I am having problems posting pictures. I thought I had that down. I posted pictures and narrative the other day and when I went to post it the message said the time had expired and I needed to go back to retrieve it. I could not get it back and decided to do something less frustrating. This happened one other time but I got it back. Anyone has ideas on this please advise.

    Back to the boat. I have installed the bow assembly and I am working on the stern at this time. I promise pictures will be coming, but might have to wait until younger family comes to visit to help me with this. There will be more to see by then.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Pictures of progress. Completed bow assembly in shop



    The bow installed. Cargo strap worked good to pull the chines in.


  30. #65
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    More pictures.



    I made this platform to hold the bow at the correct height; it looks like overkill but it was under much stress with the chines and sheer clamp pulling in different directions. It worked good.

    This is a pattern for the stern. It helps me get the correct size, bevels, and the rake. Next few pictures are building the stern transom, setting up and cutting off the chines and sheer clamp.







    Last edited by waltwood; 05-10-2012 at 08:19 PM.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Last edited by waltwood; 05-10-2012 at 08:10 PM.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Okay, so the pictures are a little out order.




    It is being painted to prevent checking not for looks or rot prevention. The weather was very dry and the wood started to dry out too fast.
    Last edited by waltwood; 05-19-2012 at 02:58 PM.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge





  34. #69
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    The floors are treated 3 x 12 's. They were about 2 1/2" thick and we planed them to 2 1/4" so they could be cut with a circular saw. I wanted something thicker than 1 1/2" because the bottom ply runs athwartship and the seam between sheets breaks on the floors.



    Pattern of floor.



    Four floors installed.


  35. #70
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    Default Re: Building an Oyster Barge

    Moving along nice...
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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