3 year old shoots self dead with handgun

[SaltyBoatr]

No doubt the father of this child thought he needed a handgun to protect his family from crime.

"A 3-year-old boy fatally shot himself with a gun he found in a car while his family stopped for gas early Wednesday at a gas station in the western U.S. state of Washington, police said. It was the third recent shooting by a child in western Washington."

[S.V. Airlie]

This has nothing to do with regulation on the face of it. Just someone who was being stupid about leaving the gun accessible.How many drunk drivers killed some people including kids last night? The drunk was stupid to be driving too.

[SaltyBoatr]

This has nothing to do with regulation on the face of it. Just someone who was being stupid about leaving the gun accessible.How many drunk drivers killed some people including kids last night? The drunk was stupid to be driving too.

According to the detectives, it was not stupid. They say it was an "accident", no charges to be filed. Nothing to do with regulation, yep. "Accidentally" letting your child reach a handgun is not regulated in Washington State, so correct, this has nothing to do with regulation. Drunk driving is regulated. Safe storage of handguns is not regulated, big difference S.V..

[skuthorp]

Collateral damage.

[S.V. Airlie]

Well drunk driving isn't very well regulated then is it? The only thing that regulates it,is the person drinking and behavior and how driving drunk is negatively perceived by others.

[SaltyBoatr]

Well drunk driving isn't very well regulated then is it? The only thing that regulates it,is the person drinking and behavior and how driving drunk is negatively perceived by others.

No, big difference.

If you get caught drunk driving, you spend time in jail.

If you get caught in Washington State having your child kill himself with your handgun, you get off without any legal charges.

[Ian McColgin]

In the story, a pro-gun spokesman is quoted as claiming: " . . . Responsible people will maintain gun safety whether there is a law or not; irresponsible people will ignore the law . . ." The same argument can be made for getting rid of laws against speeding or driving while intoxicated.

The firearms promoters have declined to engage debate over a register and license system analogous to what works for motor vehicle traffic, including in the air and commercially at sea. The simple reason for that is they would have to demonstrate that those laws have been an unmitigated failure and that just as people should be free to carry firearms both openly and concealed anywhere, so folk should be free to do 60 passing a stopped school bus.

It's in the interest of profit seeking arms suppliers to keep the debate on stupid stuff they can either win or won't matter much, like press to legalize 50 cal auto fire weapons just to keep the gun control debate in "The Rhelm of Eh?".

[Tall Boy]

Gimme an R.......Gimme an E......Gimme a G..........Gimme a U.......Gimme an L.....Gimme an A..........and on and on and on......yawn.......

[brad9798]

It is beyond me how these accidents happen ... how did I EVER survive growing up with free access (obviously NOT as a three year-old, but from the time I was eight or nine) to guns in my home?

Oh wait, I did not have access until I was taught what they were ... how to use them ... and how to RESPECT them.

Just like my kids ... my youngest is seven, so yea, they are locked up ... and UNLOADED with the ammo stored/hidden elsewhere.

These accidents are preventable ... THAT is the tragedy.

The should file charges against the parents, IMO!

[S.V. Airlie]

If you get caught with a handgun, usually or often enough times, you do to jail too.I am not sure about Washington. Can you cite where it says no legal charges are made..I can see neglect of a child being one charge. The use of a gun in a crime being another.

[SaltyBoatr]

Gimme an R.......Gimme an E......Gimme a G..........Gimme a U.......Gimme an L.....Gimme an A..........and on and on and on......yawn.......

Is that a nervous joke? God forbid regulating child safe storage of handguns. The 'honor system' is working just fine! (Not.)

It is entirely reasonable to pass laws making it a crime to let a child get access to a handgun. Some teeth in a law could help.

[SaltyBoatr]

Can you cite where it says no legal charges are made.

Read the article S.V.

[SaltyBoatr]

The should file charges against the parents, IMO!

The first step would to pass a law making it illegal. (Except the gun lobby would fight that law tooth and nail, and the 2A dittoheads would back them up.) They did nothing illegal in Washington State.

[Phillip Allen]

salty... you may not have noticed or perhaps cared but you are standing on the body of a dead child and preaching political regulation...

[skuthorp]

excuse me Phillip, but that's just dodging the questions that should be asked but aren't by enough people in the US.

[S.V. Airlie]

Brad.. I don't know either. I had access to the gun cabinet with shotguns, a dozen pistols, ammo in the drawer underneath since I was six. Earlier than that..probably 4. The lock was a joke, the panes of the glass were not much of a deterrent; easily broken if I had a mind to break them.. At 4, I guess those were deterrents enough.At six, I understood how to respect them, learned how to maintain them, used them for what they were designed for; skeet, targets on ranges, duck, upland birds etc.My father taught me and he trusted me to use them as they should be used.

[elf]

Seems that losing the child would be punishment enough for most caring parents. State infliction of punishment would be my idea of excessive.

On the other hand, if it happens to the same parents another time, perhaps some sort of gentle querying of the parents to determine whether they are capable of understanding that there's a connection between how they store their guns and what can happen to the people who ride in their car might be a good idea.

But I wouldn't be surprised to see news of a divorce in a year or so there.

[S.V. Airlie]

The first step would to pass a law making it illegal. (Except the gun lobby would fight that law tooth and nail, and the 2A dittoheads would back them up.) They did nothing illegal in Washington State.

I've asked for a cite.

[Paul Pless]

It is entirely reasonable to pass laws making it a crime to let a child get access to a handgun. Some teeth in a law could help.

link

[Tall Boy]

Is that a nervous joke? .

No, not at all...just cheering you on son.

[SaltyBoatr]

Seems that losing the child would be punishment enough for most caring parents.

Not enough for these parents in Tacoma. Just three days prior a similar accident happened in Seattle killing a different child with his father's handgun in a van, a reasonable parent might get the hint.

No doubt they are heartbroken in retrospect, the issue is that the 'honor system' isn't working to keep children safe from their father's handguns.

Another reasonable regulation might be to legislate manufactures of handguns to increase the trigger force needed to pull the trigger.

[elf]

Not the same parents. Most people don't learn from others' mistakes.

[Bobcat]

Do caring parents leave a loaded pistol under the front seat of a car with their three-year-old son in the car and then walk away?

[S.V. Airlie]

Here are the regs for a permit Salty. Other than Brad's suggestion which makes sense, what would you change,alter, or add.Requirements

You must meet all of the following requirements to get a concealed pistol license (RCW 9.41.070):

• Be 21 years of age or older at time of application.
• Be a United States citizen or a permanent resident alien with permanent resident card (green card).
• Have no pending trial, appeal, or sentencing on a charge that would prohibit you from having a license.
• Have no outstanding warrants for any charge, from any court.
• Have no court order or injunction against possessing a firearm.
• Have never been adjudicated mentally defective or incompetent to manage your own affairs.
• Have never been committed to a mental institution.
• Have no felony convictions, or adjudications for a felony offense, in this state or elsewhere. “Felony” means any felony offense under the laws of Washington, or any federal or out-of-state offense comparable to a felony offense under the laws of Washington.
• Within the past year, haven’t been an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, narcotics, or any other controlled substance.
• Haven’t been convicted of 3 or more violations of Washington’s firearms laws within any 5-year period.
• Haven’t been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces.
• Aren’t currently subject to a court order restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child, an intimate partner, or the child of an intimate partner.
• Have never renounced your United States citizenship.
• Have no convictions for any of the following crimes committed by one family member against another:
  
  • Assault IV
  • Coercion
  • Stalking
  • Reckless Endangerment
  • Criminal Trespass in the first degree
  • Violation of the provisions of a protection order or no-contact order restraining the person or excluding the person from the residence

[Tall Boy]

Another reasonable regulation might be to legislate manufactures of handguns to increase the trigger force needed to pull the trigger.

Now that would be a worthwhile use of your time, I advise you take it on at the national level, I would totaly enjoy watching your progress.......

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Anybody who keeps guns and ammo, and doesn't account for children is beyond dumb.

[SaltyBoatr]

Now that would be a worthwhile use of your time, I advise you take it on at the national level, I would totaly enjoy watching your progress.......

Is that a nervous joke?

[S.V. Airlie]

Salty did you read my comment and the list of regulations for Washington? i mentioned Brad's addition which makes sense and is not included, but by looking at it, it covers (the regs.) everything you have posted already.This is why no matter what you appear to say, what you want is banning all guns.

[BrianW]

Boring same old stuff from the same guy.

And no, that's not a nervous reply.

[JimD]

Salty did you read ...the list of regulations for Washington?

I especially like this one:

Haven’t been convicted of 3 or more violations of Washington’s firearms laws within any 5-year period.

Which means you could have been convicted of several violations over many years and still qualify. Only an idiot would give a three year old access to a loaded handgun. Apparently in Washington all you need to get a concealed carry permit is to be an idiot.

[BrianW]

link

He's just an "idea" guy.

[Donn]

He's just an "idea" guy.

He's a broken record.

[skuthorp]

Of course the weekly toll is just part of the price you pay for easy access to personal firearms, I recognise the cultural norm but personally deplore the continuing casualty rate and subsequent grief of individual families.

[S.V. Airlie]

That' it? violation.. i allowed my son to use my gun for target practice. Technically a violation as he didn't have a permit. Shooting a duck out of season violation. Shooting a bird on Sunday violation. In Ct. shooting and killing a bird on Sunday is illegal. It's called hunting on Sunday. Shooting more duck than allowed on any one day illegal.Shooting a protected bird by accident.Shooting a deer out of season.Using lead shot instead of steel duck hunting is illegal. Shooting a rattlesnake in your backyard is probably illegal.How many firearm violations do you want?

[Paul Pless]

He's a broken record.

jaft

[Meli]

Um, this may be a dumb question, but can anyone explain why anyone needs to carry a handgun in the glovebox of a passenger vehicle?

Serious question.

[SaltyBoatr]

Of course the weekly toll is just part of the price you pay for easy access to personal firearms,

'Weekly' vastly under estimates the problem. Roughly every 20 minutes someone dies from a gunshot injury in the USA. Gunshot injuries about once every five minutes. With huge personal and financial toll, (much of it carried by the taxpayers).

[Bobcat]

Um, this may be a dumb question, but can anyone explain why anyone needs to carry a handgun in the glovebox of a passenger vehicle?

Serious question.

This one was tucked under the front seat as Dad went to pump gas and Mom went into the convenience store.

[S.V. Airlie]

Um, this may be a dumb question, but can anyone explain why anyone needs to carry a handgun in the glovebox of a passenger vehicle?

Serious question.

Meli..the only thing I can see it is if it is an off duty cop #1.who goes into a convenience store.At least my glove box can be locked. However, the child mentioned here was killed by a LOADED gun under the seat. NO excuse.And the firearm violation Salty was lapping up did not specify what type of firearm just the term firearm.Any firearm. Last time I checked, one could have a violation using a shotgun..not even a handgun as that is not specified.Hence, my post on what is meant by a firearm violation?

[Meli]

Meli..the only thing I can see it is if it is an off duty cop #1.who goes into a convenience store.At least my glove box can be locked. However, the child mentioned here was killed by a LOADED gun under the seat. NO excuse.

I can see why an off duty cop may carry a gun in the car. But ordinary Citizens?
I wonder how many get stolen every year?
And I'll ask why again?

I'll ask another question?
Has anyone here ever needed their "car gun"?
and if so, why?

[S.V. Airlie]

Ya got me Meli..People get in used to wearing guns.Some say they won't leave without theirs. I can see civilians carrying them because of their work/profession such as a taxi driver in NYC but the usual John Doe, I have no idea..
OH,OH, OH..me. I've got one. I hit a deer on a back road one night. Really clipped it good. Thrashing about everywhere. Obviously in pain but still alive. I sat there wishing I had a gun to put it out of its misery.It took a cop 40 minutes to show up and I spent 40 minutes watching it die finally. The cop was not needed.

[The Gentleman Sawyer]

Um, this may be a dumb question, but can anyone explain why anyone needs to carry a handgun in the glovebox of a passenger vehicle?

Serious question.

Because some people have been socialized to fear everyone and everything in this country. The gun owner should be prosecuted for criminally negligent homicide, at the very least. The cop from last week too. Also the preacher who shot his daughter while showing his gun to another while in church(!!!) a few weeks ago. Shot her thru a wall. Just because you've caused the death of a loved one doesn't make it less of a crime. I read these kinds of threads and rarely participate, but the "s**t happens" attitude of the gun lovers really gets me. Yes, you have a right to have a gun, but innocent folk also have a right to not be harmed by your stupidity. MY .2.

Ken

[Donn]

MY .2.

Ken

Here's your change:

[Meli]

So Don.
Do you carry a car gun in your glove box? Do you take it out and carry it with you everytime you go to work.
Or do you just leave it in the car?

Enquiring minds would like to know.

[Donn]

So Don[sic].
Do you carry a car gun in your glove box? Do you take it out and carry it with you everytime you go to work.
Or do you just leave it in the car?

Enquiring minds would like to know.

Do you think I'd tell you, if I did? Do you think you have the need to know?

PS...It's Donn.

[S.V. Airlie]

I don't own a gun..should I be worried? Should I lose sleep because I don't? Aren't there enough crazies out there regardless. Should I worry about them too or at least as much Salty.?I'd be like the guy in the bubble if I spent all my time worried about what amounts to practically everything. What a way to live.Every time we eliminate a drug (guns in this case) something will come out which could be worse..

[skuthorp]

I think Donn you need to take a deep breath.

[Meli]

Nice dodge from a "responsible" gun owner.
If you wont/ can't validate your own ownership and carrying of a weapon, methinks you have little credibility in these sort of debates.

[Donn]

I think Donn you need to take a deep breath.

Why? My breathing is fine, thanks.

[skuthorp]

You've got to accept the US cultural norm Meli, not liking it is ok and dissing the policy is too but don't make it personal. They're just different. Not all of them of course but the majority of their legislature at least.