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Thread: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

  1. #1
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    Default A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    This may be of interest to those with an interest in metal casting, it's a useful idea but not something I've seen mentioned in books on the subject.

    I made this a few years ago, it's a core box for a toothed wheel with slightly under undercut teeth which made a normal pattern unworkable. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of the finished casting but it was quite successful and cast in manganese bronze .












    The central plug is removable and tapered and the blue silicon is indexed to the plug. I use sodium silicate bonded sand as a core material and it serves well .The sand is packed in the mold, gassed with CO2 then the central plug is removed then the blue silicon is peeled out . The bottom photo shows the finished core .
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 03-16-2012 at 04:04 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Certainly a nicely done bit of work! I for one would enjoy reading an account of how you formed the teeth so accuratly.
    Jay

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Yeah, I'll second that!
    Chuck Hancock

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Slick

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    Certainly a nicely done bit of work! I for one would enjoy reading an account of how you formed the teeth so accurately.
    Jay
    I cheat Jay ! A 42 tooth circular saw blade gives the division .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    That's not cheating, that's just being clever.
    Chuck Hancock

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    That's really neat Peter, what was the gear for?

    Jim
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    The internals of this windlass I built Jim, a project I completed a few years ago.




    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Wow! That is seriously cool!
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    You actually built that windlass Mr.Sibley? Holy son of a gun!! I'm impressed beyond comprehension Sir! The level of skill involved escapes me entirely but a multi-part article in WOODENBOAT on your foundry work would be a real learning experience, to say the least!!

    Ego sum ​​formica inter gigantes!!



    Cheers!


    Peter
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Lemonhead has a good idea there Peter. I'm sure it'd be very well received.

    Rick

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    But would you believe that he sold it recently? I seriously hope the guy who bought it appreciates what he has Peter!!!!
    Larks

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    But would you believe that he sold it recently? I seriously hope the guy who bought it appreciates what he has Peter!!!!
    I hope he can produce and sell a few .

    With a bit of luck the world needs a double acting manual bronze windlass with chain gypsies in 4 different pitches, 10mm shortlink, 13mm shortlink, US 5/16" and 3/8"BBB.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    I second and third Mr Lenihans words and as to who needs one well I was tempted to suggest anyone building a schooner but seriously talk about wow factor on any sizable boat and a lot more reliable and easier to use manualy than the electric versions.

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    It's an idea but seriously I think I have pushed the limits of hobby bronze casting a bit beyond WB's normal limits.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    I don't agree Peter. The magazine is read by a lot of people who like to make things and like to read about others making things. There was an article about making knives in it not long ago. There are plenty of people who don't have the foggiest idea about casting and the various considerations in choosing the right sand, metal etc. (e.g., me). If you want a hand with photos or anything except the actual casting (I'll be the one hiding behind a tree), I'd be happy to help. I think it's a really interesting aspect of boatbuilding that very few people ever learn much about but many would be very interested in. The article wouldn't have to be about something as complicated as that windlass, although I reckon people would love to see what went into that, it could start with something quite simple, like some mushroom vents!!! or cleats etc. You could make it a two or three part article.

    Lemonhead might even sponsor you if you put one of those bloody hats on for the pics!

    Rick

  17. #17
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Ah ! Mushroom vents! There might be an article in that !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Ah ! Mushroom vents! There might be an article in that !
    or/and chain stoppers perhaps?
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I don't agree Peter. The magazine is read by a lot of people who like to make things and like to read about others making things. There was an article about making knives in it not long ago. There are plenty of people who don't have the foggiest idea about casting and the various considerations in choosing the right sand, metal etc. (e.g., me). If you want a hand with photos or anything except the actual casting (I'll be the one hiding behind a tree), I'd be happy to help. I think it's a really interesting aspect of boatbuilding that very few people ever learn much about but many would be very interested in. The article wouldn't have to be about something as complicated as that windlass, although I reckon people would love to see what went into that, it could start with something quite simple, like some mushroom vents!!! or cleats etc. You could make it a two or three part article.

    Lemonhead might even sponsor you if you put one of those bloody hats on for the pics!

    Rick
    +1 would love to see this.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Peter - I too would like to see a further detailed foto-essay on the process.
    David G
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Copy this thread up to the Woodenboat section, or PM one of the WB honchos. I think it has general interest.
    Gerard>
    Langley, WA

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Peter,
    This is astonishing.
    Even if performing such feats is beyond the reach of us mortals it would be great to read about.
    St.John

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    I'd be interested, there were a few bronze casting articles over the years but it's been a while and this one is really SUPER COOL. I'd love to see more about that windlass.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    I am pleased to see the statement, "The computer age is killing personal creativity." proven false!
    Bravo!
    Jay

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    OK, I've copied the thread across so the WB gentlepeoples will notice it and perhaps read it. A short article might be a good idea as I gained my original casting information from those old articles in our magazine, they were a useful input but there hasn't been much since.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    All of the above have a good point Peter. Having seen the windlass and had a play with it I can say I was seriously impressed with it. Not to mention the skill and work that went into it, including building a foundry.
    ​In a world full of wonders, man invented boredom.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    In the word(s) of my old pal Doc Fleming,
    ACES!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    OK, I've copied the thread across so the WB gentlepeoples will notice it and perhaps read it. A short article might be a good idea as I gained my original casting information from those old articles in our magazine, they were a useful input but there hasn't been much since.
    I'll get started on making the pattern then! To make the pattern for bronze mushroom vents, what thickness should I make the sides? The vent I have in mind is about 100mm dia x 70mm h.

    As you know, I'm coming up next weekend but I intend to come up again in a few weeks time. If you'd like to put together some sort of photo essay then, with the windlass, the vents or whatever suits you, then I'd be happy to help with that.

    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 03-11-2012 at 08:54 PM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Rick... perhaps we should talk about it at the EBS with a few accompanying sketches (and ales )? It can be complicated if not organised properly .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Done.

    Rick

  31. #31
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Well, I knew you did a bit of casting Peter, but not like this. This is something else. You should definitely be writing a picture series of How-Tos for WB in my view.

    Also, please check your PMs. (They tell me you will need to empty some out before you can receive any more.)

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    PMs cleared .
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  33. #33

    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Wow! We focus on a WB deadline for a few days, and look what you guys come up with! Peter: We'd be quite interested in an article. Would you e-mail me to discuss it--and whether it's feasible? ([my first name, as written below]@[the magazine's name].com).
    Matt Murphy

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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    (knock,knock,knock)

    Mr.Sibley?!,Sir...Are you still on the loo? There's someone very important wants to have a word with you Sir!

    (Knock,knock,knock) Did you get that Mr.Sibley?, The boss man ,he's at the door Sir!
    Do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,do it,now!
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: A bit of patternmaking trivia.

    Ah yes ! Thank you Peter, I was down the workshop and didn't hear the door bell.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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