Voter ID laws won't hurt anyone.

[Waddie]

Originally Posted by Waddie

Having a license doesn't make anyone a better driver.

SaltyBoatr; You had to prove your skill in handling an automobile and knowledge of the driving laws through a drivers test. Lots of people actually take lessons in order to become better drivers in order to pass their licensing test. So, you seem off base.

No I don't. I have my wife fill out the form at home and I take it to the DMV , pay $40.00 and get renewed. No test or anything. Well, there is an eye test, but everyone passes that unless they forget their glasses.

Originally Posted by Waddie If freedom from ID's was good enough for the Founding Fathers, it's good enough for me.

SaltyBoatr; In your dreams. The Founding Fathers denied voting rights to the majority of people. Women, Negroes, for instance. Unless you could document that you owned property you were denied the right to vote. This is part of your 'Founding Father' fetish, take off the rose colored glasses.

In YOUR dreams, Salty....They may have been a bunch of scum bag, racist, sexist pigs who deserved to be tortured, drawn and quartered, the vile scum, but THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO SHOW NO STINKIN' ID in order to sign the Declaration.

Wake up and smell the coffee..!!! You shouldn't need an ID to vote.... or to buy a gun..... or drive a car... or collect government assistance....etc. We're supposed to be a free people...let's start acting like it!!!!!!

regards,
Waddie

[Ian McColgin]

Yeah, that right wing jerk in New Hampshire sure proved something. He proved that no one needs polling place ID to catch the sort of fraud that polling place ID is supposed to prevent. However, in the right wing's fact-free universe, this does not get talked of.

It's about being sure that a person like Obama is never again elected.

[John Smith]

Are you saying that your father never obtained a photo ID, ever?

Yes, I am.

I'm also going to tell you a true story that you may find hard to believe. My wife, after an auto accident, got seizures and had to surrent her license, which did have a photo on it. When we took her license to Motor Vehicle to hand it in, as they wanted physical possession of it, we asked for a photo ID.

No problem, right? WRONG.

In today's world of ID security, our state will not issue a photo ID and a photo license. State law prohibited her from having a driver's license with a photo and a simple photo ID. Technically she had a photo license.

Fortunately, the clerk we were dealing with thought this was as crazy as we did and got a supervisor. After some discussion they found that one could have a photo driver's license and a photo boat license. She got one of those, although we had no boat at the time.

Had that supervisor not take some time to work on this, my wife would not have had a photo ID to vote with.

My question in all of this that seems to get ignored is pretty simple. Every registered voter met the necessary criteria when he registered. Voter fraud is documented as virtually non existent, and that fraud that occurrs is seldom, if ever, someone trying to vote under someone else's name. What is the point of making this law retroactive?

ps One of the problems in this topic is those who have no problem getting photo ID seem unable/unwilling to understand that getting such ID is an obstacle for a lot of American citizens.

[Ian McColgin]

John, while it may be that some who believe that polling place ID laws actually address a problem and are reasonable, the simple truth is that most people get the point of those who promoted these laws around the nation - it will disenfranchise blocks of people who would most likely vote Democratic. It is a simple partisan measure to gain control of government with a veneer of "democracy".

[Wavewacker]

I think (and hope) that the tactics being used by the right will ultimately backfire on them. They are simply devious to the point of being traitors to what they claim to hold so dear. They have declared war and one they can not win over time.

These redistricting ploys, voter ID laws, bringing religion in to turn back the clock on women's rights and attempts to strip government won't be tolorated for long. Dems will eventually get back in the driver's seat and when they do should be steam rolling over the Rs to the extent that they will never return. Pass federal law preventing the tricks and destroy their ability to manipulate the system. Stricter laws governoring voter requirements ensuring that a system can not be changed by one party. A code of conduct that allows the immediate dismissal of any law maker that fails to abide and such being accomplished judicially, not politically. There are ways to put the voice of the majority back in government while protecting minorities.

The far right is simply acting in a way so that future actions against them will be easily justified. And, they can get as FED UP as they care to, to the point of choking themselves.

[Phillip Allen]

I think (and hope) that the tactics being used by the right will ultimately backfire on them. They are simply devious to the point of being traitors to what they claim to hold so dear. They have declared war and one they can not win over time.

These redistricting ploys, voter ID laws, bringing religion in to turn back the clock on women's rights and attempts to strip government won't be tolorated for long. Dems will eventually get back in the driver's seat and when they do should be steam rolling over the Rs to the extent that they will never return. Pass federal law preventing the tricks and destroy their ability to manipulate the system. Stricter laws governoring voter requirements ensuring that a system can not be changed by one party. A code of conduct that allows the immediate dismissal of any law maker that fails to abide and such being accomplished judicially, not politically. There are ways to put the voice of the majority back in government while protecting minorities.

The far right is simply acting in a way so that future actions against them will be easily justified. And, they can get as FED UP as they care to, to the point of choking themselves.

that sounds radical and dangerous

I understand the sentiment but any teeth in that must belong to the PUBLIC and not the party in power or there could be a purge which goes against voter's wishes

[John Smith]

I've never seen any statistic showing that poor people don't have ID's. In fact, having to show an ID have never been a problem before, it just doesn't seem to be a problem.

btw I agree with Waddie, the founders didn't need an ID to sign the Declaration of Independence! So again, I say let make access to each of our rights exactly the same for all of us.

I must confess this view annoys me. It shows how many American simply cannot view things through other's eyes. I used to ask how "Shock and Awe" looked to the Iraqi people, but found many unable to understand the question.

let's concede that MOST Americans can get a photo ID without much problem. We deny the other 10% the right to vote? Do you think every citizen was born in a hospital with a record? Do you think every kid who was adopted can find his birth cerfiticate. Do you think all wives have a marriage certificate?

Meanwhile, can you document any voter fraud?

Stats have been posted here that voter fraud is only a .000003% problem. So what is the point of these new laws if not to keep that 10% from voting? How do you tell someone who'd voted for 40 years they can no longer vote? For what purpose?

[John Smith]

Ballot box stuffing, has anyone heard of it? One of my coworkers grew up in NYC. He remembers being paid to vote early and often, and was still a teenager.

Your point? That problem was solved a long time ago.

My question is simple. Every election a sample ballot is mailed to all registered voters. Why is that sample ballot sufficient ID?

[John Smith]

Your father truly does not have a photo id?

My father never had a photo ID. He also didn't have a birth cerficate. If he were alive today, he'd not be able to vote under these laws.

My friend, Monty, tells me his father also had no birth certificate and would not be able to vote under these laws.

Why is it so hard for so many to believe that there are a lot of people who are citizens of this country that have no photo ID?

[John Smith]

how does this apply?... one must register to vote...to do that he must have I'D.... if he cannot present I D, the regestration stops right there... the complaint about ID simply does not apply

The question here is why should people who met the criteria in place when they registered have to meet new criteria?

[John Smith]

John, while it may be that some who believe that polling place ID laws actually address a problem and are reasonable, the simple truth is that most people get the point of those who promoted these laws around the nation - it will disenfranchise blocks of people who would most likely vote Democratic. It is a simple partisan measure to gain control of government with a veneer of "democracy".

Agreed. Trouble is many of these laws are now in place. I'm not sure if they can be challenged in time for this coming election. I hope someone challenges them based on the retroactive part and manages to get them enjoined for this election.

I also hope there is a massive effort being made to get photo IDs for those who don't have them. For some, it's just a question of transportation. For others it's more difficult.

[BA.Barcolounger]

Many people do not have driver's licenses. Old people that no longer drive whose licenses have expired are being turned away at the polls. Inner city folks who use public transport instead of cares are being turned away at the polls.

[wardd]

Yeah, that right wing jerk in New Hampshire sure proved something. He proved that no one needs polling place ID to catch the sort of fraud that polling place ID is supposed to prevent. However, in the right wing's fact-free universe, this does not get talked of.

It's about being sure that a person like Obama is never again elected.

i don't see why they don't wait till 2019 and vote obama out

[wardd]

how come this voter id mania cropped up all of a sudden and spread so quickly?

[S.V. Airlie]

i don't see why they don't wait till 2019 and vote obama out

2019? Interesting..