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Thread: Willapa Bay 17

  1. #1
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    Default Willapa Bay 17

    anybody ever have built one or know anything about em? thanks.

    Outlaw

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17



    The Willapa Bay 17 is very similar to the Wide Guide Skiff offered by Walter Baron on Cape Cod. This hull form is reflected in John Gardner's dories and Harry Sucher's Flat Bottom Skiffs. Tracy O'Brien offers plans for several of these hulls as does Bateau Boats. The Willapa Bay 17 is offered as free plans by:
    http://www.sandypointboatworks.com/willapa.html I am very familiar with the Wide Guide Skiff (only available built by Walter Baron) which is very suitable for coastal waters. Since these hulls are quite similar I imagine the Willapa Bay would be a good boat and what's not to like with the plan price?
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Humm ...... Very peculiar. Here is the Wide Guide 18 photo from Walter Baron's Old Wharf Dory web site.



    The hills in the background are a bit different but the Willapa Bay photo is so very similar to the Wide Guide. Coincidence?
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    It certainly is the same boat photo, just with some photoshop work done on it. The water reflections etc are identical or very close to, reflections on the outboard are identical, etc etc.. If not, another photo taken at virtually the same time might also be the source.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    The yellow boat is the original image. I took the image of the red boat, flipped it, resized it in photoshop and placed it over the yellow boat. Everything matches except for the steering console and the "hills" above the middle of the boat those elements have been "erased" and "added" respectively. In the image below the "red" boat has been placed on the yellow boat and it's (the red boat) opacity has been adjusted to the text.



  6. #6
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Very interesting. Knowing Walter Baron to be an honest, ethical, and hard working boat builder who isn't getting rich from boat building I would pass on the "FREE PLANS" from someone else. Since the cost of plans is such small part of a boat build, I would forget "free" and find plans from a reputable designer. Walter will build you a Wide Guide hull for a reasonable price which you could finish however you wished. There was another discussion concerning the Sandy Point Boatworks on the forum here:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...oint+boatworks
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    This Sandy Point guy has been wrung up many times over plans theft and shady business practice. I wouldn't do any business there, regardless of how nice the design may be.

    HOWEVER:

    Walt over at OWD is a helluva nice guy, very helpful, and you are keeping alive a traditional small boat shop that builds them one at a time, designs some very nice stuff in the old way, and allows a niche market to survive. It's like the concept of buying American, you can get the cheaper option, but the other costs are to jobs and skilled people right here at home.

    Buy the Wide Guide plans, Walt makes them very worth the entry fee.

    E

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    thanks guys. I remember reading a post from PAR about this boat and he said their was some not so good things about this boat as when turnig, it would skid alot. so if this boat is the same as the wide glide would that too skid alot? if indeed these skid can you put 2 skags toward the outboard side and mount them at a 45* toward the chine to help the skid? thanks for taking the time about the willapa 17.

    Outlaw
    Last edited by Outlaw; 03-03-2012 at 12:02 PM. Reason: correct wording

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Buy the Wide Guide plans, Walt makes them very worth the entry fee.
    Except Walt doesn't offer them as plans according to his website:

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Warf Dory Company
    Please give me a call at 508-349-2383, visit the shop, or email to discuss building a Wide Guide for you.

    Due to the complex nature of the bottom panel of the 18' Wide Guide, Plans
    are not available for amateur construction.
    Source: http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_wide_guide.html

    Another thing, while the photo is obviously "borrowed" the boat is not the same based on the dimensions. The willapa bay boat is 10" shorter and 5" narrower in beam. Nexus marine also claimed that it was stolen from their 16ft san juan dory yet it's a foot longer and an inch wider. I have no clue as to the truth nor do I claim any allegiance to any designer, but my guess is that the sandy point guy has his own boat, but instead of a rendering or actually building one to photograph he just took someone elses photo and used it on his site (which is wrong IMHO) Just my opinion though, nothing more.
    Last edited by gstanfield; 03-03-2012 at 03:06 PM. Reason: fixed some spelling and grammer issues.
    George

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    I just came to the same conclusion. the willapa17 is not the same boat. I have the plans for this and just went to the WG site and the boat is not the same. also, Walter does not offer plans for his WG. so I do not know what everybody is talking about.
    now if I decide to build this boat, the willapa17, I am concerned of the skiding. if I would put a skag, one on each side, outboard toward the chine's and set em at a 45* angle, would that help the skiding problem or just put a skag in the center as usual. then , how deep for either system and how long.
    I would be running a 15hp motor on this boat. I will be using this to fish the Pacific NW waters. between Olympia and Seattle. thanks guys for all your help.

    Outlaw

    P.s.- yes it is not the same as what Nexus claimes. it could of started out as there 16', but sandy point may have added to it and made it there own. heck, I think alot of builders do this. ya think.
    Last edited by Outlaw; 03-03-2012 at 01:08 PM. Reason: added more info

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
    I just came to the same conclusion. the willapa17 is not the same boat. I have the plans for this and just went to the WG site and the boat is not the same. also, Walter does not offer plans for his WG. so I do not know what everybody is talking about.
    now if I decide to build this boat, the willapa17, I am concerned of the skiding. if I would put a skag, one on each side, outboard toward the chine's and set em at a 45* angle, would that help the skiding problem or just put a skag in the center as usual. then , how deep for either system and how long.
    I would be running a 15hp motor on this boat. I will be using this to fish the Pacific NW waters. between Olympia and Seattle. thanks guys for all your help.


    Outlaw

    P.s.- yes it is not the same as what Nexus claimes. it could of started out as there 16', but sandy point may have added to it and made it there own. heck, I think alot of builders do this. ya think.

    I stated in response #2 that Walter did not offer plans for the Wide Guide, that he needed to build the hull. I also told you about Tracy O'Brien in Washington State who originally designed the Wide Guide. I asked you to look over his designs. If you really think you can add install skegs at 45 degrees to the centerline to stop skidding you had better call Tracy quick as you have no business building a boat I would ride in. If you have no problem associating with someone who "borrows" someone else's boat image to represent his own work - end of discussion.
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Since these hulls are quite similar I imagine the Willapa Bay would be a good boat and what's not to like with the plan price?
    Humm ...... Very peculiar. Here is the Wide Guide 18 photo from Walter Baron's Old Wharf Dory web site.
    The hills in the background are a bit different but the Willapa Bay photo is so very similar to the Wide Guide. Coincidence?
    I beleave these statements were from Robert Meyer.
    If you really think you can add install skegs at 45 degrees to the centerline to stop skidding you had better call Tracy quick as you have no business building a boat I would ride in. this is also from Robert.
    well I didn't say I would do this Robert, I asked a ? if this would work or not. I also asked if it would be better to just put a skeg in the middle. I also asked about the boat, if anybody has built one or knows about the build. It doesn't matter if I down loaded the plans or not or if I would build the boat or not. can not a person ask ?'s on this forum instead of someone getting all stuffed up about it?
    If your going to answer a post, get your facts about what the OP has asked. If ya can't answer in a nice maner then please don't answer one of my post. thank you. I am not here to recieve anyone's negative rude answers.

    Outlaw

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    transom
    __ chine & bottom
    / \ skeg or keel


    I hope this will help to what I was trying to ask. the skeg or keel would be outbound of center at 45* and parallel to the chines. I do not know how far inboard or how long, thick or deep they would need to be. I saw this done on a boat but I can not find it now. I just need to know do any of you know if this will work and have you seen this done before. if not is there a reason for it not to work and what would be the best way to do to keep the boat from sliding or skidding in a turn? thanks

    Outlaw
    Last edited by Outlaw; 03-03-2012 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Out, there's so many plans out there that people are familiar with and can more definitely answer your question about. Since there's no existing known copies (on this forum) of the boat you are asking about, it's hard to give a definite answer.

    That said, there's so many designs out there, especially ones from local guys to our area (I'm from Salem and live in Spokane now) that you can use as comparison hulls to see if they utilize something similar to what you are trying to accomplish.

    E

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    thanks E. do all these type of boats have a skid problem or what? does your lumber yard skiff skid or does the anti skid members control that? if so does it control all flat bottom skiffs or not? I understand there is alot of these out there but can someone tell me yes or no? if this boat is so much like the wide guide from walt, does it skid or is it controled by anti skid members? thanks

    Outlaw

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    Every boat is different, so nobody can unequivocally say it will or won't do anything. Hard to say.

    My 16 foot flat bottom skiff has two small 1x2 runners along the bottom, 36" apart, square in section. She doesn't skid a bit, and banks nicely in turns. I like the flat bottom with small runners combination.

    E

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Willapa Bay 17

    thanks E.

    Outlaw

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