Sport Wagons

[Paul Pless]

Paul - Are you sure the A6 Avant will be coming to the USofA? Last I read (recently) - it didn't look good. Have you seen them at the dealers?

I have not seen an Avant here yet. i have seen the new Allroad. You'd be amazed at what is available here in Detroit though. For instance since Fiat bought Chrysler, I've been seeing private tagged Alfa 8C's on the road near our house.

[seanz]

Hmmmmm........they're not selling a petrol XC70 here, just the diesel. The petrol 3.0 V6 XC60 has 45 more Hp than the Outback.....similar mileage to the Subie....so there's your car.


Shame you can't get the diesel Outback......36MPG.

[John Bell]

I like wagons, too. This is the one I want.

[seanz]

I have not seen an Avant here yet. i have seen the new Allroad. You'd be amazed at what is available here in Detroit though. For instance since Fiat bought Chrysler, I've been seeing private tagged Alfa 8C's on the road near our house.

Get the V8.


Awww......from Wiki.

Based on the Avant version of the Audi A6, the A6 allroad quattro remains in production for Europe, but not for North America as of December, 2010.

[David G]

John - another Not For the USA model?

[Paul Pless]

John - another Not For the USA model?

its a pipe dream

[LeeG]

I like wagons, too. This is the one I want.

why do they make the rear quarter windows so small?

[LeeG]

You know what would be really sporty? A 1995 Buick Roadmaster station wagon with the rear end jacked up a couple inches and bigger tires just in the back. Then down the line you could convert it to CNG.

[Paul Pless]

Lee, I just want you to know, that your humor hasn't been lost nor wasted on me.

[John B]

Sportwagon by name,. they're pretty common here and have V6 through Ls engine series options.
I must go and have another look because I'm starting to get antsy again, I've had my holden 10 years now and I'm a bit sick of it. Last time I started thinking about changing a world recession kind of put things on the back boiler.

[Paul Pless]

Come on John, there's only one wagon for you!

[John B]

However , the other option and probably a better one is the newest shape Legacy. I'm not so thrilled with its looks but its a nice car to be in and much softer on the fuel. 2.5 litre turbo 4 for close to 200 kilowatts... whats that? about 260 or 270 hp, and 0 to 60 in mid 6 seconds . Not bad. Not thrilling but not bad.



Yeah, got a boat truck just like that already Paul. Just without the Kamm back.


Audi... RS6 Avant, just that little ole R8 V10 living in under there for somewhere between 500 and 600 HP.....now that would be the one but they are just astronomically priced and quite frankly even if I could afford it I'd feel wrong driving it. But then again , I think I could get over that.

OOO look , a cheap second hand one for only $139K NZ choke. What a snip, if only I was a banker or a rock star.




....

[The Bigfella]

BMW M5 Touring.

Next subject?

[Paul Pless]

BMW M5 Touring.

Yeah that'd be nice.

Next subject?

Reality.

[Mrleft8]

I thought you were going out to burn hydrocarbons to create complex carbons to burn to keep you warm at night..... (Have you thought about replacing your log splitter with a space heater? )

[Lew Barrett]

BMW M5 Touring.

Next subject?

Another unavailable model here, by the way. They just don't want to sell us wagons, and we don't buy enough of them to make it worth the bother anyway.
Too bad. It's a proper form.

Used M5s (E39) going for a song these days. They have me thinking. I could live with 400HP.


But really, this is all any of us need.

[The Bigfella]

Yes, the E39 M5 has interested me for a while, but a mate of mine who is a BMW fetishist tells me that I'll always get more driving enjoyment from the E34.... despite the E39 being faster. Incidentally, BMW have never been much interested in longevity with the VANOS units from what I hear (no direct experience) but I'm told that someone in the US is selling a kit that solves the problem for next to nothing (a teflon seal conversion instead of o-rings).... and that could make an E39 attractive. I wonder how much hp they make with a few mods (eg chip)?

Its a pity they don't send you the Touring

[George Jung]

If you're talking about the model, forgetaboutit; I'd need new rings/valves and probably a rebuild or two.

AFA the 500 - nothing I've read sounds enticing, and.... I doubt Paul could get in it, much less haul his kayak.

[Lew Barrett]

When I bought my E39, my last new BMW, I seriously contemplated the Touring, but they didn't supply it with a manual or the M kit in this country, so I got the sedan. The Touring versions of the same car almost always depreciate less here, so in hindsight, that could have been a mistake, but I never regretted getting the 6 speed. Since I have owned both E34 and E39 5ers, I can honestly say I believe the E34 to have been the better built, higher quality machine. However, no E34 I have ever driven, including my own which I also bought from new, ever drove as well as the E39, so that's the dilemma. My E34 was far more trouble free than my E39, and the interior materials were a cut above as well. But the E39 handled better wet and dry, and was much faster.

But how about that Fiat? What Fiat, you ask?

[The Bigfella]

Ahh... but there's the issue Lew. We bought the E34 535i 5 speed manual first - for one of the boys to drive, but since taken over by Diane. I liked its feel. Its transformed though with the S38 engine in the M5. 50% more power. 25% stiffer springs, slippery diff, etc. You can drift it if you want, or you can putter around. It just doesn't bite you.

C'mon Paul... get searching for a nice, well-maintained, low mileage BMW Touring.

[htom]

While the turbo Imprezza WRX sportwagon is a blast to drive around town, it's kinda small inside for a long drive.

We've got a Forester, love it, and it's a lot smaller inside than our old Outback.

Look closely at the Outback.

[LeeG]

Lee, I just want you to know, that your humor hasn't been lost nor wasted on me.

hey, this is important stuff. My daughter had a '92 Custom Cruiser, few times I drove it up and down steep driveways and towing a trailer I wished the back end was a bit higher. Seems that if the back end was lifted it would be easier to see the first 30' of the road. It's about a queen sized bed in the back and a big bean bag would help cushion the dogs, they would appreciate that.

[seanz]

JohnB, I wonder what that Holden Sports Wagon is like in big city traffic? I've driven the sedan and it has blindspots everywhere except straight ahead.

Really liking SWIMPAL's new (to us) Impreza......1.5 liters of fury. Very nippy and fun after the Legacy. But I've got to remember the power isn't there and some corners are one gear down from the 'big' car.

[John B]

The problem I have with them Sean, is that after bleating on through the VX VY range for several years ( the model I have)about how 'big' the Falcons were, Holden went and made a car , the VE, that is just as wide!. Given the diminishing car park sizing and general traffic here, I just feel that I can't go there. It p(*&^% me right off, because I've lost my marque,I lost me car mojo.For the first time in my life I don't have a car I want and is acheivable. and don't get me started on HSV.

Ah well, they can still sell em all to their target market, boy racers, I guess. Won't be long and it'll be a fawn camry for me, pass the slippers.

[seanz]

pass the slippers

Go on....jandals and a WRX. After driving a few Imprezas, I soooo would.

[The Bigfella]

Bugger that for a joke. Even the current M3 is a bit big... and I don't think they've done a Touring in them. Believe me though.... they are a car you'd enjoy driving. Then again, I've been known to stick on one's tail in the twisties... catch it even. Couldn't get away from it though.

[Stiletto]

John B, do they still make a 4WD version of the Commodore wagons?

[The Bigfella]

You mean the Adventra? No

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...ntra-2005-4757

[Paul Pless]

lmfao

[David G]

In fact, I doubt any self-respecting Rott would even get in a Subaru!

You can doubt all you want, but my brother and nephew have had a string of Rotties. My niece would take them - and her pit-bull mutt - all over the North Coast in her Subaru wagon.

ETA - by special request from brad -

I don't recall any of their Rotties that wanted to drive, but several of them wanted to sit in your lap while you drove. I mean, c'mon... they'd seen all those other dogs (pugs, pekinese, dachshunds) do it. And the ALL insisted on applying maximum nose prints to any available glass.

Wait! Creepy how?

[seanz]

Long as you let 'em drive once in while, rotties don't care what sort of car it is.

[Lew Barrett]

Get a car you like, smallest car that has the necessary space, or buy something in between and pack light. How many times do you use a car packed to it's maximum carrying capacity? "Specially if it is to be a commuter on a daily basis. Yeesh!

Ian; if I ever got another BMW, the 3 series is as big as I would go. I've been all around the mulberry bush with them and the smaller they are, the better they fulfill the BMW mission. Used market agrees; M3s have the least depreciation of the lot as a rule. But we've been here before!

[Wavewacker]

Dollar for dollar, another vote for Subaru Forester SX!

[BBSebens]

A sub-AMG E-class wagon ought to serve well. An E-500 is no slouch.

A little bummed that you dismissed the CTS-V Sportwagon so quickly. What a spectacular car it is! Perhaps not the most practical wagon, but what fun you could have!!


I have a 2001 XC-70. I. Love. It. Most comfortable car ever. 145k (miles) on the odo and still runs great. Basic maintenance, nothing ridiculous. Can't really say about the newer ones...

The real suggestion? V70-R. 300hp, AWD, proper space for a wagon, and it completely disappears in a crowd. They don't make them now, so used is your only option, but what an option.

[CWSmith]

I prefer the Subaru outback, but we have a Forester, too. The outback is more comfortable and longer, roomier in that sense. Both handle bad weather well, but the Outback better. Wish both got better mileage, but they are made well. Just my opinion.

[Lew Barrett]

I have always preferred the 5 series ... a bit larger and more functional for the family thing ...

I used to think as you do, bought two in a row. No mas. But I don't have need of a family car as a daily driver anymore. Anyway, the M3/3 series is the purest expression of what BMW does well, but it ain't what Paul is talking about. I will gladly have any M5 they ever made, but my new ideal is the 3. I think BB may have a point; Paul could be looking for a used AMG wagon of some stripe because BMW doesn't have one (here) anyway.

I am completely content with my GTI, mind. Me, the wife and my oldest daughter (absent the two dogs) drove it from here to Santa Rosa and back with all our carp, two weeks worth, and I had a ball on the back roads. But it ain't no 5er on the super slab.

[ChaseKenyon]

I am a dedicated car nut gear head as most of you know.

There is only one car I can recommend for you. It has the all wheel drive and all goodies and a good long term value retention.
It can be fully serviced both at dealer and independent shops in more places in the USA Canada and Mexico than any other higher end vehicle.


Drive one and you will buy it.

The bottom of the line version is a bit sparse for my Jaguar expectations of features and such but the top two bellow the very super top of line are weel worth considering and have AWD available.

If you can settle for traction control, dynamic stabilization contyrol ,brakes and so on with just two wheel drive and a set of winter alloys and skins go all the way.

I am talking of course of one of Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile, Motor Trend and other magazines favorite rides.

Go for a Cadillac CTS Wagon. Personally I would go all out for the CTSV standard transmission killer. The wife still prefers a regular standard to the best paddle shifters from Audi DSG and others. I'd go for the paddle shifters. you have a car that easily set the record for a four door sedan at the "Ring". The wagon is know to have a much better closer to a perfect 50/50 weight distribution.. That should make it faster than the repeatable lap times of the paddle shift auto.


This and a Jaguar SuperSport at twice the cost are the only cars I personally would take out a note on. Based on value retention both are acceptable for 5 and even 6 year notes.

When I am willing with my bad bad back to drive over an hour (we do live in the boondocks even at 2 hours to Boston) just for a test drive it's gonna be good.

TRy one before making any final decision.

You do and you will stop looking anywhere else.

If they just would make the AWD available in the CTS V Wagon they would have a world wide AMG M and Audi SR Wagon Killer.

[SMARTINSEN]

YMMV obviously , but Marlee, our bullmastiff thinks that riding in the WRX is just fine, thank you very much, and that a rottweiler would like it just as well:



Headed up to camp with a big cooler, a big dog, and our necessary and sundry accoutrements for a two week trip.

Probably a tight squeeze for two big dogs, though, Paul you would have to do a Romney on the roof

[Paul Pless]

I am a dedicated car nut gear head as most of you know.

There is only one car I can recommend for you. It has the all wheel drive and all goodies and a good long term value retention.

They are ugly, bloated, and so large as to appear to be a cross-over suv, rather than a wagon. Really hard to make an informed opinion on retained value when they have been on the market for less than a year. I love the CTS-V and have spent a fair amount of time driving two different year models, but the wagon is a real turn off for me. . .

[Lew Barrett]

I already suggested the CTS-V but he turned me down flat, Chase. The man is just teasing us. He is down to the AMG.

[ChaseKenyon]

Sorry to hear that Paul I actually like the super angular styling and think the wagon is much better looking than the sedan.

I have a love affair thing with turboed and supercharged Audi Wagons personally and do not mind the more frequent mechanical needs. If you stay on schedule they cost less not more than other cars. But you HAVE to stay on schedule. Wish I had been able to keep the ICE Racer. I never belived I would make it this far back health wise or I would not have given ( gift here you go James) it to one of my fave mechanics. 0 to 60 or 100K, hard to see it that fast, as fast as you can pop the clutch and instantly shift to second. At 70 mph on the interstate you could down shift to second and spin all four tires. You had to hold it at 3/4 throttle till about 42oo RPM and then put the pedal down or it would bog big time. But if you watched the big after market boost / vacuum gage to keep boost below 6.5 psia and then yes all above 4400 RPM you can go full boost all the way to 29 psia then yes yes yes. And a partial heartbeat after second and with out ever taking you hand even lose from the lever push directly to 3rd, and then a quick breath and finally go for 4th all all at full boost on the five cyl, at 7800 RPM redline. Marilyn loved it (well trained in SCCA Solo II and semi pro rally) but put her foot down on not selling it due to liability in the hands of an average even an average hot rodder driver.

I would not recommend it to you even as a long term Vette owner but I have my eyes on an A4RS Avant with the 4.2 V8 and a Kenne Bell on top of it. (It is in CT at a Jaguar club members house.)


Say a prayer the VA finally pays me the two whole years of full disability they owe me sometime in the near future.
Then it along with the XJVSC are my final "Keepers".

[ChaseKenyon]

Paul you want to call me at 603 938 5282 ?

have an Idea.

It blew me away.

a neighbor's friend from down the cape was up with her for a weekend. We got to talking like here.

At my suggestion he overlooked his view (just like yours) of the CTSV Wagon and borrowed one from the dealer for the weekend and could not give it back. He said the more he looked at it in different places the better it looked.

For me, the rear side vision in the wagon is so much better as to make even though we no longer need a wagon. (The monster Maine Coon Cats are happy with their high chairs and looking out the side windows). After driving a CTS wagon as a test (I was wasting time before going to pick up the wife) to blow time compared to the CTSV sedan I had driven twice, I found that wagons outward side and rear side vision was so much better that I would no longer consider the sedan. I had to get used to the funky and totally new and unique way they integrated the wagon to the sedan sheetmetal. Now I prefer it.

If I can't get the hot rod Audi, there should be a CTSV standard tranny (for the wife) one or two year old low mileage Wagon available if you search nationally. With the certified availability of car inspectors nationwide it i no longer a problem where you can not trust a remote vehicle you personally have not driven. Quite a step forward for all motor enthusiasts.

Ahh I am bored tonight. Slept to much...LOL

[Paul Pless]

Honestly, this'll be Kat's primary commuter car so ultimately its her decision and practicallity will play a large role in what we buy. So will budget. Its nice to dream about cars that cost over 50 grand, but in reality we cant spend that much. If we buy lightly used and let some one else take the depreciation hit, we can afford an optioned out XC70, or 328Xi. We haven't haven't been to the VW dealership yet so that's in the running to try. And as Lew posted early on suggesting a Tahoe, we may well end up with a GM SUV - Kat has significant contacts in the auto-industry and one has offered her a generous corporate discount on GM products - living near Detroit and no longer working for a foriegn car company, buying American has appeal too.

We're not in any hurry, we can pick and choose our best moment and wait for the best deal to come through; although Kat turns her Maxima in this week and she may soon tire of driving my old truck.

[ChaseKenyon]

Paul you know I would not be able to resist this thread so continuing on.....

Here is a wagon in the pearl paint that I fell for big time on this body. The black out German outlaw hot rodder black wheels have to go immediately though. A nice set of satin polished alloys would be nice. Maybe a modern version of the
BBS lace wheels.

First the link.



Are you capable of keeping your foot out of it? if not kiss you license goodbye. Road fly tester could not and got 18 mpg top. My outrageous Jag XJVSC gives me 24.9 to 25.3 on the highway even on I91 (lots of big hills ask the Vermonters here.) if I keep it at 69 instead of 73 mph.

[bamamick]

The last three cars we have bought were Volvos, mainly because they are safe to drive, last a relatively long time, and get good gas mileage. We had a V70 wagon and just sold it with 205,000 miles on it. My wife is driving a small Volvo wagon right now that I forget the model number of. She loves it. I have a little S40 that I drive back and forth to work. These cars get 28 mpg, which isn't too bad, and since I drive 100 miles a day to my job I need that.

I have still got my F-250 diesel with the 7.3 litre engine to pull boats with, but so far the Volvos are working out just fine for us.

Mickey Lake

[Figment]

Draketail, I'd love to hear some real-user feedback on the C30.

(your PM box is full)

[P.I. Stazzer-Newt]

When someone says sportwagon there are three cars which spring to mind...






Two of them are still sane ideas.

[Garret]

When someone says sportwagon there are three cars which spring to mind...



Two of them are still sane ideas.

Which 2? The Volvos were only made in 72 & 73 - so they are getting pretty long in the tooth. Parts are still readily available though.

I've had 2 regular 1800's (a real P1800 & a later 1800E). I've always wanted an ES, but the prices on 'em have climbed right up there. While no rocket sled, I thoroughly enjoyed both of mine. Good mpg too: 35 or so @ 75mph.

[Lew Barrett]

An AMC Pacer would also do the trick ...

The AMG versions of the AMC approach set a brisker pace....er.......

[MiddleAgesMan]

Our V70 wagon was a money pit. Nice driving car, but CONSTANT expensive repairs and maintenance.

That was my experience with the one and only Volvo I ever owned. I wouldn't do it again.