saying goodbye

[Philip Maynard]

Just to state the obvious, Bernadette is both a woman AND she is actually building something, for both reasons SR would want to drive her out - and he did.

[John Bailey]

I don't post here often, but I have moderated on a popular website and if a poster used the F-word and was not immediately banned until it could be sorted out, then I don't blame Bernadette.

I have enjoyed Bernadette's build and her father's wisdom. I read with interest and great worry when the cyclone hit. Through it all Bernadette and her father showed great skill, talent, courage and grace. I hope she returns, but will understand if not. You'll be missed.

John

[Phil Y]

You know what? I hate it when people who come here have a go at Scot. You can spend as much time here as you like. You don't have to pay to be a member, you don't have to buy a coffee or a beer in order to be here, you don't have to leave a tip. It isn't even paid for out of your taxes. If you don't like to be here, sure, take your bat and ball and go home. Bernie, you offer a lot here and add value, sorry you got pissed off. But so many times I've seen whinging and moaning on here about the apparent failures of the moderator, if I was Scot I'd just shut the thing down. Please you guys, don't be such an ungrateful bunch of self important fools. This forum doesn't suit everyone all the time, but it is terrific. Its a technical resource, a place to hang out, a place for intellectual debate, a place just to have some fun, sometimes at the expense of others if they are fool enough to take the bait. Go easy on Scot.

[RFNK]

I agree with that. I think the WBF is a great resource for us all and Scot does a terrific job. No one can please all of the people all of the time. Only a fool would try. We can deal with trolls by starving them of attention.

Good post Phil

Rick

[PeterSibley]

Hi Bern .

Going ? Because of some fool ? This place isn't bad and the fools aren't that thick on the ground and we NEED to see how KATY goes !

Please reconsider.... but if you don't thanks for what you have contributed and have fun,

Peter

[kenjamin]

Bernadette,

I would truly love to see your boat finished and sailing in a picture on this forum someday. Don't know much about the problem you had but we can't let one rotten apple spoil a barrel of red delicious ones. In any case, I hope you get through your project and thoroughly enjoy sailing her.

Fair winds,
Kenjamin

[skipper68]

Thanks for the insight Meli. Berni- you have accomplished more than that troll schoonertroll ever will begin to. If they would stop feeding his troll, he would just continue on, responding to his own posts. (I am suspecting he has something to do with Raw Faith myself.......) Take a break, and keep posting when you can, of your REAL build. That's what WBF is really about.

[Hwyl]

You know what? I hate it when people who come here have a go at Scot. You can spend as much time here as you like. You don't have to pay to be a member, you don't have to buy a coffee or a beer in order to be here, you don't have to leave a tip. It isn't even paid for out of your taxes. If you don't like to be here, sure, take your bat and ball and go home. Bernie, you offer a lot here and add value, sorry you got pissed off. But so many times I've seen whinging and moaning on here about the apparent failures of the moderator, if I was Scot I'd just shut the thing down. Please you guys, don't be such an ungrateful bunch of self important fools. This forum doesn't suit everyone all the time, but it is terrific. Its a technical resource, a place to hang out, a place for intellectual debate, a place just to have some fun, sometimes at the expense of others if they are fool enough to take the bait. Go easy on Scot.

Agreed

[Meli]

Thanks for the insight Meli. Berni- you have accomplished more than that troll schoonerrat ever will begin to. If they would stop feeding his troll, he would just continue on, responding to his own posts. (I am suspecting he has something to do with Raw Faith myself.......) Take a break, and keep posting when you can, of your REAL build. That's what WBF is really about.

Well Skip, us girls could all go out on strike and just post elsewhere until the blokes have finished trying to educumate the Schoonerwacca. (But I doubt they would notice )

There is something really creepy/ugly about that guy, I'm feeling the bad vibe all over the forum.
I guess it must just be a womans intuition thing) The insult and attempted belittlement of Bernie's "Katy" thread seemed to pass pass un remarked.

So I'm off to "elsewhere" until this blows over.

See ya

[PeterSibley]

[QUOTE=Bernadette;3321857]it is not the schoonersrus posts that have upset me. in fact i have tended to find him 'pesky' at best. the last posts i read of his were akin to a stuck record player. going around and around on the same track...saying the same things over and over...

my initial main concern was that scot hadnt taken some action. i thought the wooden boat magazine people would like to protect their standing in the marketplace. the forum in my opinion is the internet equivalent of the magazine.

the reason for my dismay is altogether something different and probably something that will never change.

i used to come to the forum when it was fun. now its a hard slog on a number of counts. i like the forum because i have met so many nice people. some people i have met in person, and others i have only met online. i enjoy the social side a lot. and i enjoy reading about other peoples work and especially their sailing trips. i have learnt from the forum too. it has shown me new boat building ideas and made me green with envy looking at far away places. and i have also enjoyed the ability to ask an unrelated question about something, and have any number of people chime in with replies and help. for all of that, i am very grateful.

i feel at a loss to try to explain my reasons for leaving. at the moment i cant. but i will heed your advice, and take a break from the forum.

[QUOTE]

Excellent Bern, I missed this post .Glad you will be back .

[Duncan Gibbs]

You know what? I hate it when people who come here have a go at Scot. You can spend as much time here as you like. You don't have to pay to be a member, you don't have to buy a coffee or a beer in order to be here, you don't have to leave a tip. It isn't even paid for out of your taxes. If you don't like to be here, sure, take your bat and ball and go home. Bernie, you offer a lot here and add value, sorry you got pissed off. But so many times I've seen whinging and moaning on here about the apparent failures of the moderator, if I was Scot I'd just shut the thing down. Please you guys, don't be such an ungrateful bunch of self important fools. This forum doesn't suit everyone all the time, but it is terrific. Its a technical resource, a place to hang out, a place for intellectual debate, a place just to have some fun, sometimes at the expense of others if they are fool enough to take the bait. Go easy on Scot.

Yes and no Phil.

Yes, because most here just post occasionally, asking legitimate questions to help with their build, find some kind of product, choose a design, or just have a good ol' dust up in the Bilge.

No, because there are also a good many members who do spend money on maintaining picture hosting sites, are very experienced craftspeople and as a result provide enormous value and advice to the forum free of charge. These are the people who should not be alienated so much that they leave. I know that Jim Ledger has pretty much abandoned the place. His last activity was half a month ago, so he hasn't even been bothered to look in here. I've hinted at it as much, but now I feel I should let people know who they're going to be missing.

I don't consider myself an invaluable part of the forum, but I'm still willing to spend $80US a year to host about 2000 pictures. There are a lot more like me as well. I'm feeling pretty pissed off that this ijit has poisoned the air of the upper decks as I'd already pretty much abandoned the Bilge, having learnt that shovelling water isn't that much fun.

If the decline continues (and it's pretty palpable at this stage) I'd have to say that I won't be feeling to encouraged to either stay, or spend money maintaining my Picturetrail account. There are still people and threads that keep me here, but that could still change.

Just sayin'.

[Garret]

Duncan -

Let me start by saying I'm not criticizing in any way. I am asking because I must admit I don't understand. How is it that one thread "poisons the forum"? I can see folks wanting to avoid the Bilge, but can't a thread or 5 topsides be ignored? I've heard the car accident analogy, but don't really feel it's apt - as I can see a thread title & poster name & easily say "Nope - no interest in looking at that." - while I know I will look at an accident (even having been a tow truck driver in the past - so I know better).

I thought that the not showing bilge threads would improve things, but there seem to be folks like yourself that feel that wasn't enough. What would be? What changes would make you feel better about the forum?

Please let me repeat - I am trying to understand & am not saying that anything you said was invalid or incorrect.

Thanks!

Garret

[Duncan Gibbs]

In not so many words Garret, Jim, and others, who feel that they are undertaking serious builds and providing value to the forum are being completely undermined by this ridiculous thread and a whole bunch of people, who should know better, keeping the damned thing alive. I suggest a mass un-subscription to it. But better still Scot should either move it to the Bilge or better still delete the thing and be rid of it once and for all. This is what used to happen here, but there appears to have been a policy change.

[PeterSibley]

Duncan -

Let me start by saying I'm not criticizing in any way. I am asking because I must admit I don't understand. How is it that one thread "poisons the forum"? I can see folks wanting to avoid the Bilge, but can't a thread or 5 topsides be ignored? I've heard the car accident analogy, but don't really feel it's apt - as I can see a thread title & poster name & easily say "Nope - no interest in looking at that." - while I know I will look at an accident (even having been a tow truck driver in the past - so I know better).

I thought that the not showing bilge threads would improve things, but there seem to be folks like yourself that feel that wasn't enough. What would be? What changes would make you feel better about the forum?

Please let me repeat - I am trying to understand & am not saying that anything you said was invalid or incorrect.

Thanks!

Garret

I agree Garret, i have no trouble what so ever avoiding said thread .

[Garret]

In not so many words Garret, Jim, and others, who feel that they are undertaking serious builds and providing value to the forum are being completely undermined by this ridiculous thread and a whole bunch of people, who should know better, keeping the damned thing alive. I suggest a mass un-subscription to it. But better still Scot should either move it to the Bilge or better still delete the thing and be rid of it once and for all. This is what used to happen here, but there appears to have been a policy change.

Thanks Duncan. I guess I don't see how one thread undermines others, but that's probably a blind spot for me. I do agree that - with all the surrounding hooraw, it probably ought to go to the Bilge. Thing is - what if he actually does build it? Guess that could be a new thread.

I think Scot has a really tough job & in general keeps a largely hands-off approach. The originator of that thread did get his wrist slapped & has cleaned up quite a bit - though he still has a long ways to go before I'd bring him home to meet the parents

[Duncan Gibbs]

If it's a choice between Jim and Schoonerdude, I know what decision I'd make: In an instant!

[MMonies]

As an actual schooner owner/builder back in the "day" I wouldn't hold my breath for the materialization of this one! The "dude" is no schooner man and/or builder.

As an actual yacht broker/sales back in the "day" he is not going to build, commission or buy one either. We sold lots of 50 foot boats down in Texas and this guy would have been laughed off the docks the minute he opened his mouth.

Why is a troll like this detrimental to other builders and members of WBF? If we take him seriously or appear to, we are then negating the value of bonifide builders and knowledge offered by those who deserve to be listened to as sage advisors.

How is a new or less experienced builder to know whom to listen to and whom to ignore? When over 50 pages of inane rambling, bombastic clutter comes up first constantly what must they think WBF represents?

I am a junior member but have been reading Wooden Boat for all of my life almost, so I would say that represents about 60 years of readership. I agree that this forum is an extension of the magazine and must guard its reputation with the same dilegence.

Mike Monies- The Red Scamp

[Garret]

If it's a choice between Jim and Schoonerdude, I know what decision I'd make: In an instant!

I agree with that about 1 bazillion %

[Lew Barrett]

As an actual schooner owner/builder back in the "day" I wouldn't hold my breath for the materialization of this one! The "dude" is no schooner man and/or builder.

As an actual yacht broker/sales back in the "day" he is not going to build, commission or buy one either. We sold lots of 50 foot boats down in Texas and this guy would have been laughed off the docks the minute he opened his mouth.

Why is a troll like this detrimental to other builders and members of WBF? If we take him seriously or appear to, we are then negating the value of bonifide builders and knowledge offered by those who deserve to be listened to as sage advisors.

How is a new or less experienced builder to know whom to listen to and whom to ignore? When over 50 pages of inane rambling, bombastic clutter comes up first constantly what must they think WBF represents?

I am a junior member but have been reading Wooden Boat for all of my life almost, so I would say that represents about 60 years of readership. I agree that this forum is an extension of the magazine and must guard its reputation with the same dilegence.

Mike Monies- The Red Scamp

It's impossible to silence the crowd once they get the bit in their teeth, but the continued popularity of this thread is a mystery to me. It would sink of it's own weight if the usually sensible people who continue to support it's existence would just stop doing that!

[Duncan Gibbs]

Here's the subscription list to the thread:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/misc.php...osted&t=137305

Garret, your the top poster after Schoonertroll. I think that there's a way you can quickly unsubscribe from a whole thread, but I can't see it right now. Maybe look at the V-Bulletin help site and there may be a tool to do exactly that that isn't apparent to me.

The thing is not to feed the troll.

[Lew Barrett]

Say it again, Dunc!

Stop it! Just stop it!

[Dave Wright]

What if he's simply an unlikable guy who winds up building a boat? Yacht club bars and marinas are full of unlikable guys with all sorts of boats. This thread just adds more fuel to the fire. Wouldn't you like to see his boat if he winds up with one? If he'd been handled with humor, given advice when he asked, and when that advice appeared to be rejected, simply ignored without further comment, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I used to get very inflamed over a particular habitual, whacko bilge poster. Then I found out that not only did he live 3000 miles away from me, but he was particularly unhealthy and overweight, didn't have a pot to pee in, and lived in a trashed out trailer. Made me realize what a fool I was for being irritated by him. Of the millions of flakes in this world, why did I give extra attention to that particular one? Must have been a personal problem I guess.

This is the internet folks and everything will blow over in time. Have some fun with the guy and relax!

[Garret]

OK guys - message received.

I will say that I have had 2 main reasons for posting: 1) to actually provide some info & 2) to try to show him just how his comments were coming across.

I have seen that the latter is a waste of my time, but I still don't see why folks have such trouble ignoring one thread out of 124,602. Of course I don't understand why people can't ignore the Bilge either. I'm not real bright I guess.

[Lew Barrett]

Hardly so (the not bright part), Garret!

You are in excellent company on the thread with a lot of very informed people kicking in regularly. We've all been there at one time or another, I mean to that precise thread! It's a Venus Fly Trap for wooden boat guys. But just listen to (your uncle) Bob!

[pcford]

What if he's simply an unlikable guy who winds up building a boat? Yacht club bars and marinas are full of unlikable guys with all sorts of boats. This thread just adds more fuel to the fire. Wouldn't you like to see his boat if he winds up with one? If he'd been handled with humor, given advice when he asked, and when that advice appeared to be rejected, simply ignored without further comment, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I used to get very inflamed over a particular habitual, whacko bilge poster. Then I found out that not only did he live 3000 miles away from me, but he was particularly unhealthy and overweight, didn't have a pot to pee in, and lived in a trashed out trailer. Made me realize what a fool I was for being irritated by him. Of the millions of flakes in this world, why did I give extra attention to that particular one? Must have been a personal problem I guess.

This is the internet folks and everything will blow over in time. Have some fun with the guy and relax!

If he WERE a guy with no social skills you would have a point. The guy is just a bs artiste. He is not going to build anything. Except a page count. If people would just ignore him he would have to go away. But with each new post, the wooden boat experts screw their Greek fisherman's caps down and try to save him from himself.

I admit I was guilty of playing his game.

The mystery is why real estate has to be taken up with this abusive dross. Didn't the forum have an administrator?

[Chip-skiff]

I looked at the thread once, didn't post, and have avoided it ever since. So it hasn't poisoned anything for me.

If the combined protection of being able to choose what you click on and the ever-available ignore list aren't enough, then this might not be the site for you.

By the same token, the internet equivalent of a gated development with security guards doesn't appeal to me.

[Phil Y]

Here's the subscription list to the thread:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/misc.php...osted&t=137305

Garret, your the top poster after Schoonertroll. I think that there's a way you can quickly unsubscribe from a whole thread, but I can't see it right now. Maybe look at the V-Bulletin help site and there may be a tool to do exactly that that isn't apparent to me.

The thing is not to feed the troll.

Wow, i didn't even know you could do that. You could do some really interesting studies on a few threads I reckon.

[Larks]

Here's the subscription list to the thread:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/misc.php...osted&t=137305

Garret, your the top poster after Schoonertroll. I think that there's a way you can quickly unsubscribe from a whole thread, but I can't see it right now. Maybe look at the V-Bulletin help site and there may be a tool to do exactly that that isn't apparent to me.

The thing is not to feed the troll.

Seems to be one or two missing, so you must be able to unsubscribe.... and have your record of posting removed as well???

[WX]

I have to admit I have commented on the thread, and I keep looking in for a read. Don't ask me why but it's like a car accident, you don't want to look but you do.

[Garret]

I don't feel guilty at all. I really don't get what the problem is, but people I respect are telling me there is one - so I'll listen.

BTW - when you see the thread listed, there is a # off to the right - # of replies. Click on that to get the stats.

[WX]

I don't feel guilty at all. I really don't get what the problem is, but people I respect are telling me there is one - so I'll listen.

BTW - when you see the thread listed, there is a # off to the right - # of replies. Click on that to get the stats.

Garret just when you think you've gotten through to him he comes out with another classic comment.

[Garret]

True enough! Fact is, the guy really doesn't know what he doesn't know & has attitude about it. However, he keeps asking questions & has (through all his prejudices) learned something.

[Dave Wright]

If he WERE a guy with no social skills you would have a point. The guy is just a bs artiste. He is not going to build anything. Except a page count. If people would just ignore him he would have to go away. But with each new post, the wooden boat experts screw their Greek fisherman's caps down and try to save him from himself.

I admit I was guilty of playing his game.

The mystery is why real estate has to be taken up with this abusive dross. Didn't the forum have an administrator?

Well, assuming you've pegged him correctly, you could start an effort to have everyone who posted to that thread voluntarily delete all of their posts.

That would leave nothing but his posts and the thread would look darned strange. I have 5 or 6 harmless posts there and I'd be happy to delete them if such an effort was started. If it was a successful effort, it would mean that enough folks agree with your viewpoint to go along. A successful effort would also provide an example of how to handle such threads in the future. I think though, that too many responders (some very good people too) have let themselves develop emotional involement in the thread, and now need to continue, hoping either for the guy's failure or eventual exit.

Meanwhile, I think the guy is essentially harmless though a bit too full of himself. It's really up to you folks who object the most to organize the limited actions that you can take. I think the forum administrator is wise to have the hands off policy for now. He can take action when and if he feels it's warranted - it's his show. But I'm not unsympathetic to your feelings - just give the word and my delete button gets hit!

[skipper68]

I would if I could, but I cant cause I didn't.

[SchoonerRat]

Thanks for the insight Meli. Berni- you have accomplished more than that troll schoonerrat ever will begin to.

While this statement is likely true, please be careful where you sling your mud. 2 different people!!!

I too will miss your threads Bern. SRS's misspeaks against you have at least happened on his thread. If he had gone to your house and belittled you, it would have been different. Please stick around.

[skipper68]

OOPS! I fixed that! Sorry! ABSOLUTELY did not mean you! Apology is definitely in order on that mistake...I shall take my 20 lashes now.....

[willmarsh3]

+1 for Bernadette staying or at least her posts staying. If not I wish her the best.

[boattruck]

Bern, Just a note to ask you to try and let the wave of whatever bad feeling you currently have pass, and keep the rest of us posted now and then. I have enjoyed the thought of keeping tabs on a great build, by an obviously fascinating daughter/father team, half a world away, all of it made my little bit of spare time richer and more interesting, sorry you crossed paths with a no-good-nick, but these sort generally do go away once they stop getting fed the conflict they crave. I trust you will let us know how you are doing with your build, as well as how you Pop's health goes etc, at some point in the future, best wishes in any case. Yours, Steve/BT Cheers

[SchoonerRat]

OOPS! I fixed that! Sorry! ABSOLUTELY did not mean you! Apology is definitely in order on that mistake...I shall take my 20 lashes now.....

Apology accepted...lashes not necessary. I know the comment wasn't directed my way. The similarity in monikers is unfortunate. There are many people on the forum I would much rather be mistaken for.

I was here first...I've actually done some schooner sailing...more than 250 hours (a good season in Weinberg's Navy).

[skipper68]

Thank you..the problem is in the OP.... So many are disgusted, making legitimate boaters look like ......words escape me. Not sure why the troll keeps getting great answers. My humble apology still stands.

[Jay Greer]

Bernadette,
Believe me, I enjoy your input your comments and questions. Us shell backs gotta hang tough! In other words please bide your time and stay a while. You are well appreciated.
Fair Winds,
Jay Greer
Common Sense Boat & Tool Co.

[Lucky Luke]

Bernadette darling, please don't go....too far! At least hang around a bit, OK?

I know you won't be offended by the "darling": you know we are many here who very dearly love you, in the most gentleman way of course ...although we know you would also appreciate to, one day share your life with a new love again, and he be your real darling and you be his

So darling, since darling you are, please do not get all irritated, whether by the unpleasant words of someone or, I am sorry to say, by the effectively downwards trend of this whole forum.

The bilge has become ridiculous and 90% of what is down there is not only non-boat related, but not even of the lowest standard one would expect in a gentleman's/women's wooden-boat lovers place, people who, I think, should be sharing the same respect for nature as well as for each others, an integrity in their acts and words alike, a desire to share more than to expose themselves, etc... Many great usual posters have now moved to places like boatdesign.net, a place I personally do not like much due to this group of pundits that rule it, but nevertheless hosts to many discussions of a level practically not seen here anymore. And this applies to the "upper decks" too!.

However, if you just can't cope with it anymore, we really wish that will be temporary, and that we shall enjoy again seeing the progress on you lovely last yacht, and receiving news of your so respected father. While saying this: I am astounded that Sch...US who admires Stephane (aka Joshua) so much has not even thought of searching who you were, what you are doing and what you had done...may have given him an ounce of humility !

You are one of the most wonderful persons here, Bernadette, and I, like many, just want to see you again, and again, and again...

Luc

[RFNK]

Nice, Luc!

Rick

[JimConlin]

I've imagined hollering at some guy standing on the ledge "Jump, already!". I'm having the same feeling now.

[Durnik]

I hope you stay, Bernadette.. If you leave, you will surely be missed. It doesn't get much 'realer' then this.




Thanks

enjoy
bobby

[JoshuaIII]

Well well well just found this thread...

I respect your build Bernadette, and I love seeing your work... But your attitude...boy you do have to put a lot of water in your wine. You always been on your high horse as soon a member was saying something about you, I can understand a women need to be strong on this 99% filled with boy thing... But seriously... threathening because of a thread that you can easily avoid, easily put on the ignore list, that is free for everyone and free of speach...

[Bernadette]

it seems the foul storm has passed. well im hoping my eyes arent deceiving me.

can someone else please check and tell me it is so?!

ive had a look for the nasty thread but i cant locate it, so i assume it has been sunk. finally.

i might just say what absolute rubbish it was and the person responsible equally obnoxious. a complete rogue.

anyhow time to move on...

but first i have something very important i wish to say.

i would like to say that i have been quite suprised by the number of people who have replied here. i am also very humbled by the lovely messages you have all sent as well. i did not intend for anyone to reply, so when you did, it made me both happy and sad. sad because the messages were sincere and i felt like i was letting down a number of friends. and they also made me feel happy too because a fair number of members who have not posted many times before, came out of the woodwork (no pun intended!), to convey empathy or to provide encouragement to me. the fact that these particular people came from out of nowhere, was not lost on me.

i thank you all for your friendship in this regard.

my boat work is very important to me. its what makes me tick and its part of my being. ive grown up around boats and trotted along beside my father even when he was working in his commercial boat yard, ever since i was about 6 years of age. and so, i live eat and breath boats. its not a passing fad. that is why at nealry 50, i am still building the boat i want to go cruising on. after i lost a long marriage and two yachts beforehand, i have not let my dream go.

some of your posts brought tiny little tears to my eyes as i read them. i am always astounded when people show me generosity of kindness and compassion.

i am amongst good people and friends here. again thank you.

i can begin again to show you the work on my yacht with pride and pleasure.

this is the last boat my father will build after a career spanning over five decades. he has been a successful professional boatbuilder and is probably the last of his kind along the eastern seaboard of australia. this treasure is something i wish to share with others as we build. i know my katy thread is lacking in dialogue for the most part, but im often too busy or just too plain tired to do much other than upload photographs. for that i apologise. it is a particulalry poignant time for me. dad is less sentimental about it all!
i am hoping i can sit down with dad in the coming months and record an oral history. i get to hear all his stories which makes me feel like the lucky one.

so anyhow, its important that the wbf does not become the repository of scum. that is why i stood by what i said i would do. but now when i see it is safe to return. in the process i have made a whole bunch of new friends and strengthened ties with older ones.

bern

[Larks]

We know it was really Luc's post that bought you back....how could you possibly say no to a Frenchman who calls you Darling???

(I knew you wouldn't be gone for long....!)

[Bernadette]

hmmmmm....without getting myself into hot water here greg, i might just say that some australian men could learn a thing or two from their european counterparts. i was never one for the footy and beer type! and thongs and stubbies do little for me too!

and well, i do respect and like luc. he's a really nice man. for a man to write what he did (french or not) shows a lot of compassion and courage on a forum such as this. he can have a x and a o from me anytime.

oh and dont forget, i am part french myself. not just in name.

by the way, i was determined to stay away as long as it took! without sounding smug, i am happy it was sooner rather than later. i enjoy the friendship the forum offers.

[StevenBauer]

Glad to see you back, Bern. Now how about some more Katy pics?






Steven