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Thread: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

  1. #1
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    Default Small outboard skiff design for my gettin' on dad?

    I'd love to build my dad a small power boat. He's 80, in good health and still pretty agile. He sold his big honkin' Boston Whaler about four years ago, and though he'll never admit it, I think he misses being out on the lakes.

    So here's the design brief:
    • absolutely a no-brainer, in terms of skill or effort, to launch and retrieve off a trailer. The boat will live on the trailer when not in the water, and will likely be towed by a smaitll SUV (think Honda CRV).
    • easy for him and and my mother (who is somewhat less agile) to get in and out of,
    • small enough to meet the above, but large enough that he won't feel "under-boated" in a chop,
    • easy to keep clean (he's the penultimate neat freak)
    • easy to maintain and relatively cheap to run,
    • stout construction but simple to build -- for obvious reasons, if I do this, I'll need to get it done, so every manhour counts,
    • enough eye appeal that he'll have some pride of ownership,
    • used for casual day boating on inland lakes (for whatever reason, he will not put a boat in salt water)
    • easily stored in a garage or under cover in the back yard,
    • "confidence-inspiring" (with respect to my mom).


    I live in the desert (Albuquerque) so solid wood/carvel is out. Anything else is up for consideration. I'm sure the design brief will be revised as options and other considerations are raised. For now, all suggestions welcomed. Thanks.
    --
    Mark
    Last edited by Desert Sailor; 02-24-2012 at 10:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    All the really cool people are building John Wellsford's SCAMP.
    Seriously speaking it will take a very small motor and you can leave the sails at home. Granny would approve of its solid feel and the little bit of privacy the boat provides.
    Last edited by kenjamin; 02-20-2012 at 07:40 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    SCAMP -- I'm gonna build one of those for myself.

    My dad is a confirmed stinkpotter; he'll want to go somewhat faster than SCAMPs hull speed. So unfortunately, sail is out. Otherwise, I'd build two SCAMPs side-by-side (which would be pretty cool...).
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    You know, you could download Deftship and work with him to design something. It would give him an extra bit of pride. I did this one in a couple hours the other day.



    Draw up something like that and build it with a double floor, you'll have something safe and easy that can be built stitch & clue. There are people on the forum who are generous with their time and expertise if you run into any trouble.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...with-delftship

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Or, you could do a Candlefish 16.

    http://store.devlinboat.com/candlefish.aspx

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    I'd never heard of Delftship. I'll download it later tonight and see what I can do. I'm no small boat designer, but maybe with a little help I can get close enough to either a buildable design, or something similar that someone else has already designed.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Do check out the candlefish, you might find what you want is already there. Designing it yourself is satisfying, though.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Or, you could do a Candlefish 16. http://store.devlinboat.com/candlefish.aspx
    Never heard of this one. As for meeting his (real) needs, it's probably near perfect. But I'd guess he'd want console/wheel steering (it's an image thing, I'm sure). But this looks like a real workhorse of a boat.
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Not too hard to add the console, I'd imagine.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Not too hard to add the console, I'd imagine.
    True. But he'd be better off without it -- more open room in the boat. May have to work on this.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Sailor View Post
    True. But he'd be better off without it -- more open room in the boat. May have to work on this.
    Walk thru centerdeck. Gives him a dash w/steering and a slot to wander up front. Just remind Mom not to ride up front when Dad is cranking the throttle to wide open.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Huson View Post
    Walk thru centerdeck. Gives him a dash w/steering and a slot to wander up front. Just remind Mom not to ride up front when Dad is cranking the throttle to wide open.
    I think my mom figured that out when he had his Whaler. But in a smallish skiff, wouldn't the steering station off the centerline upset the boat's balance?

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Sailor View Post
    ... But I'd guess he'd want console/wheel steering (it's an image thing, I'm sure). ...
    --
    Mark
    Check out Welsford's Rifleman

    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/rifleman/index.htm

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    The Rifleman looks intriguing -- a little smaller, amidships (in both directions) steering, simple hull lines.

    Probably lots of good designs in this category; the challenge will be narrowing things down to make a selection. Construction manhours is an important consideration.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    If you want a quick to build, stable, tough little workboat, then just build Old Wharf's Lumberyard Skiff. Mine's a tank, needs only 25hp, hauls surprisingly large loads well, and as long as you're not in a hurry, does really well in a chop.



    3 weeks it took to build, and has been absolutely abused on our waterfront ever since. Boat's been flawless, but the first motor was junk (since replaced with an older, and less used one). She's hauled over 1000lbs before, and still got on a plane with 25hp and an ugly looking prop.

    She's not the world's most elegant boat, but she's sharp to my eye, meets your build and stability criteria, and is a well-loved design for a lot of years on the east coast.

    http://www.stagboatworks.com/?p=225

    E

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Add seats, an awning, some nice looking bright trim and the Old Wharf's got it.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Robb View Post
    Add seats, an awning, some nice looking bright trim and the Old Wharf's got it.
    Seats with storage and an awning would make it more appealing to my folks. Skip the brightwork; my dad drank deeply from the "fiberglass = no maintenance" kool aid.

    This is really interesting.

    I read WB faithfully when it lands on my doorstep; so I don't think I'm (too) ignorant. But I'll admit that I've never heard of some of these designs. The Old Wharf looks pretty straightforward, and could be built "well enough." I don't want to take on a monument to the boatbuilding arts; the goal would be to get it done.

    Those of you who might know (and anyone else who cares to speculate) -- would a 15 hp four-stroke on the back of a 16' Old Wharf be sufficient?
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    I would guess that 15 hp would be a bit small to get her moving, but then again, my personal favorite design in this vein (at least aesthetics wise), Tom Hill's Long Point Skiff, was in fact designed around a 15 hp. The LPS is a lot less beamy at 5'2''.
    http://www.thomasjhillboatdesigns.co...ong_point.html

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    By the way, Spokaloo's website listed above, is a really great resource for the LYS as well as other builds/ boats. He also started an informative (if not wordy) thread chronicling the build here: http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...t=#post2940126

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Bolger's Sea Hawk fits the bill.
    Designed to be the slimmest boat that would be safe to stand in and make a cast or haul a pot.

    The B.C. builder of the boat below has some impressive praise for the design here:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bolger...ge/46127?var=1




    The builder of this one says it'll get on plane doubled up with 6 hp





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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Spook -- I saw (somewhere) that you built the LYS out of MDO? How was that to work with, compared to "normal" marine plywood? Cost savings, if any? Compromises in quality?
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    I loved the MDO, used it on Tailgunner as well (the big pilot house sportfisher), and was happy with the results. It works just like AB fir marine ply, except there's MINIMAL finish work. Once you have her assembled, it's a coat of primer and 3 coats of paint, and she's done. MDO is great stuff to work with, and I had no issues with voids or soft spots.

    Price was about 40% better than mahogany, and I think almost spot on at $10 a sheet cheaper for the given thickness over marine AA fir. I have about $600 in the completed hull, but I did have some epoxy/glass on hand for the side joints that's not included in the cost, as well as some left over paint that I used.

    15hp would mover her alright, but would require very precise weight placement to plane efficiently. As was stated above, the narrow boats can get by with the lower hp better, but that Long Point is a very small boat (I have the plans for it as well) compared to the LYS. It'd be a cakewalk to put in a full, boxed in thwart at the frames and have lots of storage, comfy seats, etc.

    I like mine with the console because there's a huge work deck forward so I can see what my crew is doing and the weight is in the right spot.

    There's even some Youtube video of my cousins and I acting like idiots in it...



    E

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    I like the Bolger Sea Hawk, too, and wish I had built one for my Dad. But, I think Bolger's Work Skiff would be as good, or better, to fit the bill, too. Simple, very tough construction, stowage, floatation, center console option (on the 18' version) and a wide, flat bottom for far more (initial) stability than most boats this size.
    Check it out at www.Instantboats.com

    15' version


    18' version
    Last edited by DGentry; 02-21-2012 at 07:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    2nd the Mr. Gentry's suggestion
    Tim Marchetti
    CNC Routing & Design
    www.cncroutinganddesign.com

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Karl Stambaugh's CMD "Shoestring"

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl Stambaugh
    SHOESTRING was designed for Gary Clements of GFC Boats who wanted a good performing power boat without all the expense of showroom models. Numerous variations are suggested including: bowrider, runabout, and cabin models.

    Features include: striking appearance, Vee hull for good performance in a chop, and easy construction. Construction is tack and tape 1/2" bottom and 3/8" sides over straight frames. Epoxy is used throughout. Plans include: materials, lines, construction, and frame patterns. No lofting is required.

    Estimated cost for quality construction materials (not including power) is $3000. This cost includes a high level of outfit and finish you can be proud of after putting the effort into building this fine boat.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Tom Hill's long Point Skiff.



    length: 15' 10"
    beam 5' 2"
    weight: 400 lbs.

    The Long Point was designed for fishing in Cape Cod Bay. I wanted a flat bottom skiff that would draw a minimum amount of water to allow us to negotiate the Pamet Harbor at low tide and also be good for fishing the flats and marshes. She also needed to be deep and have a high bow for trips off shore, 15 miles from home. I designed her to be rugged with 1 1/2" thick bottom. I wanted a bottom that wouldn't oil-can when pounded into a chop. The bottom also had to be strong enough on its own - without floor frames - so she would be easy to clean and refinish. The flat bottom allows her to be beached bold upright for picnics or clamming.
    This boat was designed around the Honda 15 hp long shaft. I wanted a quiet, throaty sounding engine that would push her over 20 mph and cruise all day on less than 3 gallons of gas. This boat does not need more horsepower! I built mine with a center console so I could stand and steer when pounding to windward, but she would work fine as a tiller-steered skiff.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Sailor View Post
    Never heard of this one. As for meeting his (real) needs, it's probably near perfect. But I'd guess he'd want console/wheel steering (it's an image thing, I'm sure). But this looks like a real workhorse of a boat.
    --
    Mark
    There's a 13 foot version of the Candlefish, too. But you've probably found that out by now, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Chesapeake Light Craft (CLC) is going to be shortly offering a crabbing skiff - 15ft length, 6ft beam, 1600lb disp. powered by a 15 hp outboard.
    Will come as a kit.

    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Wow. The head, it be spinnin'...

    With the benefit of all the feedback, I think we can refine the priorities:


    • Simplicity/ease of build -- if I can't get it done quickly, the whole exercise is academic
    • Stability/confidence inspiring
    • Ease of launch/recovery and ingress/egress
    • Inexpensive to operate and maintain


    That Old Wharf Lumberyard Skiff looks really intriguing. But I look at the rest of the suggestions, and can see the potential appeal of each. Sometimes I think, when you're picking a boat or design, that you pay yer money, takes yer chances, and live with it. You have a boat -- how bad can that be?
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Sailor View Post
    Wow. The head, it be spinnin'...
    Mark
    Yes, your head can get completely full with designers and their plans.
    My head for example ....



    Hardest part of building a boat is making up your mind which one to build.
    “Only those who have the patience to do simple things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily" Johann Von Schiller

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    here's a 24 Culler skiff offered at 5K. With some haggling I bet you could have it shipped for what it would cost you to build new. Just a thought







    http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1968.../United-States

    They are said to be highly regarded in chop, efficient. Its small in that its narrow and light; though it is long.

    Just a thought

    Kevin

    Edited to Add: I just saw this:
    I live in the desert (Albuquerque) so solid wood/carvel is out.
    Last edited by Breakaway; 02-22-2012 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Just saw something
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Kevin -- it's a nice thought. I'm always wrestling with the choice between finding something used/good, and building it myself. It looks like a sweet boat, but the length is too much. Odds are good that whatever I build/get for my dad will end up stored in a garage, so I need to keep overall length reasonable. I also need to make sure that total weight of the whole package is something that can be handled by something like a Honda CRV.

    But it's still a sweet-lookin' boat...

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Meyer View Post
    Yes, your head can get completely full with designers and their plans.
    Hardest part of building a boat is making up your mind which one to build.
    Ain't that the truth.

    I wonder if the path to a workable solution -- not necessarily optimal -- is to lock down one variable, and then go from there. Prevents some of the whiplash.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    The Bolger Diablo fits your bill

    http://www.kolbsadventures.com/diablo_1.htm

    I just recommended a Mark Bowdidge design on another thread, and it would fit your situation also:

    http://bowdidgemarinedesigns.com/Bow...ushulu_14.html

    If you really think he'll only be happy with a center console - how about a B&B 'Marissa'? If you want to jump start the process, they offer a hull kit:

    http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/ec018.htm
    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    There are many many good options out there. Just to toss in a few other sites to browse from (and make the choice even more complicated!)

    http://www.bateau.com/categories.php?cat=29

    http://spirainternational.com/hp_wood_boats.html

    There are so many boats that would easily work that I won't suggest one particular design. Most of the opinions given already are perfectly viable options. Pick the boat that "speaks" to you and just feels right!
    George

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Thanks to all who took the time to reply.

    Right now I'm leaning toward the Old Wharf Lumberyard Skiff, probably 16'. Simple to build, and easy to make modifications, which might become important. I don't think my dad would accept an outright gift, but he might take an extended loan -- he keeps it until he's sure he doesn't want to use it any more, then I come pick it up. Some bolt-in removable storage/seat units between the bulkheads would make it more attractive for Mom and Dad, and when the time comes I can remove them to open up space and use it more like a work boat.

    Thanks, everyone -- I can't effectively express in words my gratitude for all your help.
    --
    Mark

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Just an update, I took the LYSS out yesterday with myself, 3 full sized guys, and some gear to do some lake survey work. She performed flawlessly, hauling all of us comfortably (the other three were in lawn chairs forward of the console), and easily getting on plane with 25hp.

    E

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Lawn chairs in a boat -- love it.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Ease of build and INITIAL STABILITY with a senior citizen suggest Long Point or LYS. My Dad lives in Albqq and built a double paddle canoe. He is 72, I think. He has an awful time getting in and out of it. He has motorcycle crash shoulder and a lifetime of long distance athletics bothering knees.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by davebrown View Post
    Ease of build and INITIAL STABILITY with a senior citizen suggest Long Point or LYS.
    Both of which add up to ease of use. I want him to use the boat. The easier it is for both of them to get in and out, launch and retrieve, the better. No big deal if the water is choppy -- he can go the next day. I just want whatever time he does have on the water to be enjoyable for both of them.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    The initial stability aspect is why I suggested Bolger's Work Skiffs - same beam as these other boats, but with no flare to the sides - so she has a wider bottom for more initial stability. I suspect the construction of the bottom is pretty bombproof, too.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    It worries me that he gave up on the Boston Whaler, what size/kind was t, and what were his objections. It in about 16 feet would seem the perfect boat.

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    I've always liked the Nexus dories. Simple construction, easy to trailer, good looks. The plans for the 21' have an option for a small cuddy forward and wheel steering.



    Also available in a 16' version.




    http://www.nexusmarine.com/index.html

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    Since you're headed in the direction of simple to build and high initial stability - how about a Brockway Skiff? I don't think anyone's mentioned them so far, and I have two friends who've built them. One is working on a second, larger, version. There was a thread a while back of one of the builds:

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?119481-Building-a-Brockway&highlight=Greg+Stoll


    David G
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    http://www.harborwoodworking.com/boat.html

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design from my gettin' on dad?

    This might suit the bill also...in the larger version pictured.



    http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/le...kiff/index.htm
    Steve Lewis
    Formerly Lewisboats (don't try to change your email address!)

    http://angelfire.com/ego/lewisboatworks

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    Default Re: Small outboard skiff design for my gettin' on dad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hwyl View Post
    It worries me that he gave up on the Boston Whaler, what size/kind was t, and what were his objections. It in about 16 feet would seem the perfect boat.
    No, it was a bigger model -- 24'? A bit of a beast if you were launching/recovering every time you used it. When he owned it he had a place on Lake Winnepesaukee, so at the beginning of the seaon it would get launched and spend most of its time in the slip; at the end of the season it would get hauled, shrinkwrapped, and stored at the marina. Then my folks would head to Florida.

    I think he sold it because they were planning to sell the lakefront property (Town of Gilford property taxes on the lakefront are punitive) -- he wouldn't have a slip any more, and I'm not sure he wanted to downsize -- he liked the bigger boats with deep-V hulls, even while he complained about how much he spent on fuel to run the thing. I don't think he had any real complaints with the boat. My mother, on the other hand, thought it a bit to Spartan for her tastes, but she still enjoyed getting out on it.

    So convenience, as reflected in ease of use, is a major consideration. I think he's been off the water long enough now to miss it, and I think (I hope) that the deep-V hull is no longer the necessity it once was.
    Last edited by Desert Sailor; 02-27-2012 at 03:02 PM.

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