About.... Face!

[Old Dryfoot]

Just let me know when it's safe to send this 1914 Smith revolver back to the British Columbia family whose grandfather carried it in WWI and survived because of it.



Supposedly y'all have a provision that allows these heirlooms to be kept, but of so, this logging family either couldn't figure it out, or were scared off by the provision requiring approval from the local police force. They kept it illegally (felons, no less) for a number of decades, but Mama finally got tired of being afraid of her own government and sent it south for safekeeping.

A damn shame. Especially since .455 Webley hasn't been stocked in your local sporting goods stores for 40 years.

Have your family check the facts, handguns are permitted, they need to be registered, that's all. You can walk into a sporting good store and buy all manner of handguns, no problem. I see no reason for Mama to be afraid of her Government, it sounds like she might have been told some erroneous information to make her so. There may even been a grandfather clause for such an old item.

[Bob Smalser]

Have your family check the facts, handguns are permitted, they need to be registered, that's all.

Sure sounds like sheep dip to me. Maybe if you are a lawyer.

How do they explain without lying that the weapon was kept in their posession illegally since laws against handguns were passed in 1934? Or that if they didn't originally register this revolver as a "relic", that they aren't grandfathered and can't now?

And then, besides lying about the circumstances surrounding the firearm (another felony), all they have to do is comply with a few, simple provisions:

Any firearm acquired after December 1, 1998, (when the Firearms Act came into effect) cannot be registered as a relic.

Definition of a Restricted Firearm

According to the Criminal Code, a restricted firearm is:
• A handgun that is not a prohibited firearm;
You require a firearms licence that is valid for restricted firearms in order to possess or acquire a restricted firearm and to obtain ammunition.
• You require a registration certificate issued under the Firearms Act for all firearms in your possession.
• You require an Authorization to Transport, issued by your Chief Firearms Officer (CFO), in order to transport a restricted firearm from one location to another.
• You must store, display and transport your firearms according to the regulations applying to restricted firearms.

Firearms Licence

You must be at least 18 to get a licence authorizing you to have restricted firearms. If you are younger than 18, you can use restricted firearms only if you are under the direct and immediate supervision of a licensed adult.
If you do not yet have a firearms licence or if you wish to change your licence privileges to include restricted firearms, you must apply for a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) (form CAFC 921). To be eligible for a PAL, you must meet specific safety-training requirements.

If you already have a Possession-Only Licence (POL) that is valid for restricted firearms, you may renew it if you apply before it expires and you have at least one restricted firearm registered in your name.

Exception: If you had a POL that expired after January 1, 2004, you may obtain a new POL to possess restricted firearms if:

• you apply before May 16, 2010;
• you still possess restricted firearms that were registered to you;
• you still require them for an approved purpose; and
• you pass the public-safety checks

Initially, a PAL for restricted firearms costs $80 and is renewable every five years for as long as you possess firearms. The fee to renew a POL or a PAL or to change your licence privileges is waived until May 16, 2009. If you have already paid a renewal fee, the fee will be refunded.

Permitted Purposes For Owning A Restricted Firearm

There are a few purposes for which you can be licensed to acquire and/or possess a restricted firearm, the most common being target practice or target shooting competitions, or as part of a collection.

In limited circumstances, restricted firearms are also allowed for use in connection with your lawful profession or occupation, or to protect life.

Exception: If you have a firearm that is registered to you as a relic under the former legislation, you may continue to possess it for that purpose. However, you cannot pass that designation on to the next owner. The next owner can acquire the firearm only for one of the purposes referred to above.

As set out in the Firearms Act, a relic firearm is one that is of value as a curiosity or rarity, or that is valued as a memento, remembrance or souvenir.

Criteria For Each Purpose

Depending on which purpose you select, there are some specific criteria you have to meet, as follows.

Target Shooting Practice and Competition

To be authorized to have restricted firearms for target shooting purposes, you must provide proof that you practice or compete at an approved shooting club or range.
For more information about approved shooting clubs and ranges, contact your provincial CFO by calling 1 800 731-4000.

Collectors of Restricted Firearms

To be authorized to have restricted firearms as part of a collection, you must:
• Know the historical, technical or scientific features of such firearms in your collection
• Consent to occasional inspections of the place where your collection is stored
• Comply with regulations dealing with safe storage, record-keeping and other matters related to restricted firearms

Employment Purposes and Protection of Life

In limited circumstances, an individual may be authorized to possess and/or acquire a restricted firearm for employment purposes or for protection of a life.

Registration

To be able to register a firearm, you require a firearms licence that is valid for that class of firearm. There is no fee to register or transfer a firearm.

Previously Registered Firearms

All registration certificates issued under the former legislation expired on December 31, 2002. Restricted firearms registered in the former system had to be re-registered under the Firearms Act to update the information. If you have not yet re-registered your restricted firearms, you must do so as soon as possible or dispose of them lawfully. You can apply to re-register them online through the CAFC Web site or by submitting a paper application (form CAFC 998). There is no fee.

Newly Acquired Firearms

If you acquire a firearm from a Canadian source, it must be registered to you before you take possession of it. This will occur as part of the transfer process and must take place any time a firearm of any class changes ownership.
In most cases, the entire process can be completed by calling 1 800 731-4000 and selecting the "transfer" option from the menu of services. Alternatively, fill out form CAFC 681. This is a two-part form that must be completed by both you and the current owner.

If you acquire a firearm in another country and import it to Canada, refer to the fact sheet on importing a firearm.

Verification

A restricted firearm being registered for the first time in Canada -- for example, a new import - must be verified by an approved verifier. Restricted firearms that have previously been registered in Canada are already deemed to be verified. They do not need to be verified again unless the Registrar requests another verification to confirm their description or classification. Call 1 800 731-4000 for help to have a firearm verified.

Authorizations To Transport

You require an Authorization to Transport (ATT) from a provincial CFO in order to transport a restricted firearm from one location to another. There is no fee for an ATT.
To be eligible for an ATT you must have a valid firearms licence authorizing you to possess restricted firearms.
You can apply for an ATT by calling 1 800 731-4000 or by submitting form CAFC 679.

Information

For more information, contact the CFP.
This fact sheet is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act and its Regulations. Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.
May 2008

Of course the federal gobbeldygoop posted here doesn't mention this is all subject to local laws and customs. There are no firearm "rights" in Canada. If your local constable has it in for you, you are in deep doo-doo if you want something from him.

And of course, the penalty for screwing any of this up is having the revolver confiscated and destroyed.

Thanks, but no, thanks. Mama is quite correct to be afraid of her government.

[Old Dryfoot]

Sure sounds like sheep dip to me. Maybe if you are a lawyer.

How do they explain without lying that the weapon was kept in their posession illegally since laws against handguns were passed in 1934? Or that if they didn't originally register this revolver as a "relic", that they aren't grandfathered and can't now?

And then, besides lying about the circumstances surrounding the firearm (another felony), all they have to do is comply with a few, simple provisions:



Of course the federal gobbeldygoop posted here doesn't mention this is all subject to local laws and customs. There are no firearm "rights" in Canada. If your local constable has it in for you, you are in deep doo-doo if you want something from him.

And of course, the penalty for screwing any of this up is having the revolver confiscated and destroyed.

Thanks, but no, thanks. Mama is quite correct to be afraid of her government.

You should start by posting the previous act and then explain how the family was unable to register the weapon under those more relaxed regulations.
Also what are these local laws and customs you are speaking of? The firearms control act is a federal law, there are no provincial or municipal laws regarding guns that I'm aware of.

[Old Dryfoot]

From the Canadian Bar Association.

What classes of firearms are there?
The Criminal Code lists three classes of firearms: non-restricted, restricted, and prohibited. A licence says what class of firearm you can possess and acquire.

Non-restricted firearms include ordinary shotguns and rifles, such as those commonly used for hunting. But some military type rifles and shotguns are prohibited – see “Prohibited firearms” below.
Restricted firearms include certain handguns and some semi-automatic long guns (not all semi-automatic long guns are restricted or prohibited). Rifles that can be fired when telescoped or folded to shorter than 660 millimeters, or 26 inches, are also restricted. You can only have restricted firearms for a purpose that the Firearms Act allows, such as gun collecting or target shooting. You must also pass the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course.
Prohibited firearms include most 32 and 25 caliber handguns and handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or shorter. Fully automatic firearms, converted automatics, firearms with a sawed-off barrel, and some military rifles like the AK 47 are also prohibited.

You may be licensed to own prohibited firearms if you have “grandfathered privileges” for that class of prohibited firearm. You would also be able to obtain more firearms of the same class, but only if the firearm is grandfathered too. To have grandfathered privileges for a class of prohibited firearm, you must have held a valid registration certificate for that class of firearm before December 1, 1998 and continued to do so, without a break. Generally, for a prohibited firearm to be grandfathered, it must have been registered in Canada on December 1, 1998.

In other words, if you get rid of all your prohibited firearms, or if your registration certificates become invalid for any reason, or if your license expires, you lose your grandfathered privileges and can no longer have prohibited firearms. To keep your registration certificates valid and stay grandfathered, it is important to keep your licence valid by renewing it before it expires. Even if you are grandfathered, you cannot get a prohibited firearm that is not grandfathered. For example, you would not be able to make one, bring one into Canada as a new import, or buy one that has never been registered.

Note the underlined passage. I fail to see how a restricted firearm like a revolver would differ.

[Ron Williamson]

Just because you aren't paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.
R

[stevebaby]

Doesn't the revolver still belong to the Canadian Army?

[George Jung]

Nope. By all appearances, it belongs to Bob! And that canadian law certainly sounds restrictive.

[TomF]

that's a bit too sophistic for me

Considering the topic, I don't find your skepticism surprising, Phillip. What do you think originates the differences in approach to firearms between our two countries?


Bob, I dunno about the heirloom revolver. I understand the family's inclination to keep it as a family treasure, and were they to consult a lawyer they could probably find a way to do it legally. Much more easily than if their grandfather'd come through the war saved by a high explosive shell or two.

Lord knows that there are collectors, and there are licenses which allow them to collect. But Canadian society is different than American society respecting firearms, especially fierarms designed (like that Webley revolver) for human-on-human violence rather than hunting.

Your feelings about our laws on this are legit of course, but they're a good example of a responsible gun-owner's views firmly situated within American culture. There's a minority here in Canada that feel like you do ... and a minority in the US that feels more like a majority of Canadians do.

t.

[stevebaby]

Nope. By all appearances, it belongs to Bob! And that canadian law certainly sounds restrictive.

If it's originally a Canadian Army weapon, I'm curious how it came to be in private hands.

[Phillip Allen]

If it's originally a Canadian Army weapon, I'm curious how it came to be in private hands.

if it was an officers sword, revolver, horse or whatever... it was custome to either give it to an officer mustering out or allow him to purchase it...