Building a Privateer 26 schooner

[okawbow]

I've started building my hybrid fiberglass-wood schooner. I don't have the time or experience yet to build a wooden hull, but I have a Kenner Privateer 26 hull that I am making into a gaff schooner. The sparred length will be about 35 feet. I married the drawing for the hull with a sailplan from the pinky schooner "Dove", that I copied online.



I have cut off the fiberglass deck and am building a wooden deck. I bolted and glued fir clamps and cut and installed yellow pine deck beams and fir mast partners. I'm in southern Illinois, so I'm using lumberyard wood. I have cedar 5/4 planks for the deck. Today, I sawed out 8 pieces of douglas fir 1 1/2" by 5 1/2"by 25 feet long, to laminate for the masts. I'll use the rest of the fir for booms and gaffs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...n/photostream/

This won't be a costly project. I'm building to workboat specs, and using galvanized wire and fittings. I want to end up with a boat that looks like a schooner, and on which I can learn the "ropes" for a larger schooner some day. I have the hull on a trailer, so it will be easy to move and launch.

Hopefully, I'll add pictures and have her in the water this year.

Chuck

[Crazer]

Interesting project, I look forward to seeing how it develops. Doubtless you'll encounter some skeptical questions from those knowledgeable about things like rigs and sail plans and hulls, but it looks like you are well into it and know what you want. At least you haven't jumped off the deep end like another notable member of the forum and are starting with a small, manageable boat.

[okawbow]

Interesting project, I look forward to seeing how it develops. Doubtless you'll encounter some skeptical questions from those knowledgeable about things like rigs and sail plans and hulls, but it looks like you are well into it and know what you want. At least you haven't jumped off the deep end like another notable member of the forum and are starting with a small, manageable boat.

I made a best guess on the position of the masts, based on scaling down the Dove to fit the waterline of the Privateer. I think it will be close enough to balance well, but I can always adjust the bow sprit length or change the main sail area. The sail area of the schooner comes out just a few feet more than the sloop plan originally on the Privateer.

[Woxbox]

Ignore any naysayers that come along. You're having fun and they probably aren't. As long as you see this as an experiment and a learning project, it will be worth it. I would guess myself that, with the shorter sticks and all those sails to adjust, you'll have the stability and you'll be able to get her to balance well enough.

[okawbow]

Ignore any naysayers that come along. You're having fun and they probably aren't. As long as you see this as an experiment and a learning project, it will be worth it. I would guess myself that, with the shorter sticks and all those sails to adjust, you'll have the stability and you'll be able to get her to balance well enough.

I'm looking forward to being the only schooner on Carlyle Lake. I'm wanting to get familiar enough with the gaff rig to charter a 50 ft schooner for a family vacation in the future. I've read all the gaff rig books I can find, along with Buehlers Backyard Boatbuilding for inspiration.

[Gold Rock]

That wouldn't be Carlyle Lake Illinois by any chance? My family and I sailed our Y-Flyer there in the late sixties.

[wizbang 13]

Looks like you are having a blast !

[okawbow]

That wouldn't be Carlyle Lake Illinois by any chance? My family and I sailed our Y-Flyer there in the late sixties.

Carlyle Illinois. Still some Y Flyers at the CSA harbour. It's a good sailing lake. There are probably 400 sailboats at the 4 marinas in the summer. It's also not far from the Mississippi and a couple hours from Kentucky Lake. I took our Cheoy Lee 31 ketch down the Tombiggbee from Kentucky Lake to Mobile, AL last year. From there, my wife joined me, and we sailed to Key West, and then up the Atlantic coast to Maine. We cruised all of July in Maine, and I fell in love with the schooners. I can't afford a real one, so I decided to make my own.

[Gold Rock]

Building your own sounds like a darn good plan. I haven't been back to St. Louis in over forty years. I bet you're going to have the only schooner in the area though. Good luck with the project.

[okawbow]

Some progress this weekend. Laid over 1/2 of the deck planks. Will caulk the seams with cotton and fill with black .....caulk. Any suggestions on what kind?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...in/photostream

[George Ray]

Looks like your doing a lot of good things. Appears your using yellow pine for deck beams/timbers which seems heavy on such a small narrow boat. Just the ticket for one of our local work/shrimp boats. What are you figuring about changes in weight and a possible increase in ballast if deck and spar weight has increased?

[Thad Van Gilder]

looks cool. If you are trying to do it cheap but functional, have you considered roof pitch for the seams? I know that marine glue is similar... maybe there is something you could add to the pitch to make it a bit softer. I don't know.... Just a thought.

[okawbow]

Looks like your doing a lot of good things. Appears your using yellow pine for deck beams/timbers which seems heavy on such a small narrow boat. Just the ticket for one of our local work/shrimp boats. What are you figuring about changes in weight and a possible increase in ballast if deck and spar weight has increased?

Thanks, yes, I used yellow pine for the deck beams. It was the only clear wood I could get locally. I picked out the lightest boards, and cut them to the minimun width I thought would still make a solid deck. I think the new deck may be about the same weight overall as the old fiberglass and plywood deck. I had to cut the old deck into 8 pieces just to handle the weight. The cross section was 3/4" ply with a 1/4" of fiberglass on each side. I am also making a flush deck except for the small rear deckhouse. I won't build the forward house as in the drawing.

The Privateer has 3250 pounds of lead ballast at the bottom of the keel. I can also remove some sand inside the keel and replace with lead if needed.

[okawbow]

looks cool. If you are trying to do it cheap but functional, have you considered roof pitch for the seams? I know that marine glue is similar... maybe there is something you could add to the pitch to make it a bit softer. I don't know.... Just a thought.

I thought about something like driveway crack filler in a tube, but it might be messy when it gets hot. The deck boards are fitting together very well so far, with no light showing between them. I planed a bevel 1/2 way down the side of each plank for caulking. With a good, tight fit; what kind of cotton should I use? Would soft cotton cord be ok?

[Thad Van Gilder]

Oh no, you want caulking cotton. Its pretty cheap and you can get it from places like Jamestown distributers.

[Woxbox]

If you are trying to do it cheap but functional, have you considered roof pitch for the seams? I know that marine glue is similar... maybe there is something you could add to the pitch to make it a bit softer. I don't know.... Just a thought.

That could work but it would be messy. You can toss vaseline in the pot to soften it up. But still, messy and labor intensive. (You don't want to spend hours pushing a holystone over your decks.)

For a cheap and easy solution, I'd see what comes in a caulking tube that's black and remains flexible but doesn't get tacky in the sun. Tape off the joints, pump it in, level it off and then pull the tape. Experiments would be in order, but one of those many caulking-type products in your local big box store should serve.

[okawbow]

Got to work a couple hours this evening on the deck. Sanded all the screw hole plugs, and cut out the hatch opening and mast holes. Ready to start caulking when my cotton comes from Jamestown Dist.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...n/photostream/

[okawbow]

progress this weekend.....Caulked all the deck seams with cotton. I made the caulking tools from osage orange. Worked perfectly! Painted over the cotton with oil based paint.

Made a solid douglas fir bowsprit. Does it look right?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...in/photostream

[JoshuaIII]

Good you did it!
If you had to do it again, It would be good to do it with wood half the width of those you installed.... Less wide are the strip less they will shrink when sun hitting it during summer, so the caulking can do it's job when it start raining.

Hope you had fun doing it! Wooden mast next?

[okawbow]

I start gluing up the mast boards next week. I'll use 4, 1 1/2" thick x 5 1/2" wide douglas fir boards 25' long, glued with plastic resin glue. The main mast will be about 5 1/4" diameter at the deck, the foremast will be 5 1/2". I have some old sitka spruce for the top mast.

[Thad Van Gilder]

The 'sprit looks Yarr!!!

good job!

[SchoonerRat]

That's gonna be a sweet little boat. By the looks of the sail plan, the schooner rig could work better than a ketch rig. I doesn't even look like the interior will suffer badly from mast placement. Schooner rigs don't usually work on a boat that small; you seem to have an exception

I delivered a Privateer 35 ketch down the Cali coast a couple of years back. Mother Nature threw some pretty good crap in my face during that trip. I was really impressed with her sailing. My only real complaint was that the placement of the mizzen was a real PITA.

Was the schooner sailplan drawn by Mr. Gillmer?

[okawbow]

That's gonna be a sweet little boat. By the looks of the sail plan, the schooner rig could work better than a ketch rig. I doesn't even look like the interior will suffer badly from mast placement. Schooner rigs don't usually work on a boat that small; you seem to have an exception

I delivered a Privateer 35 ketch down the Cali coast a couple of years back. Mother Nature threw some pretty good crap in my face during that trip. I was really impressed with her sailing. My only real complaint was that the placement of the mizzen was a real PITA.

Was the schooner sailplan drawn by Mr. Gillmer?

I'm not sure who drew the sail plan in the drawing. It is basicly the same as the Pinky schooner "Dove". I made a few minor changes to fit the Privateer hull better.

This morning, I found time to plane the boards and glue up the foremast. used Weldwood plastic resin glue. Went pretty smoothly. But then, I glue up hundreds of laminated archery bows a year, so I keep in practice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...in/photostream

[johnw]

How much sail area? I don't imagine you'll set the fisherman much, so how much in the lower sails?

[okawbow]

How much sail area? I don't imagine you'll set the fisherman much, so how much in the lower sails?

There will be 379 sq ft in the 4 lower sails. The tops'l and fisherman are another 105 sq ft. The 4 lower sails will be very close to the designed sail area of the sloop. The tops'l and fisherman will help in light air.

[johnw]

That sounds okay. Schooners seem to need more sail than sloops, yawls or ketches, because the sails interfere with each other going to windward, the main being interfered with the most. On the other hand, they become more efficient on a reach and you've still got all that sail up.

[okawbow]

The two masts are glued up and ready to shape. I've ordered sails made to my sailplan drawings and based on mast placement and bowsprit length. I will rig the spars to fit the sails. This way I won't have to wait on the sails after everything else is ready.

I built the deckhouse frame and planked the top. It's very solid, and attached to the remnants of the fiberglass bulkhead. I'll build a sliding hatch and drop boards. I plan to cover any visible fiberglass left in the cockpit area with 3/8" cedar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...in/photostream

[wizbang 13]

Bam!! Cracking!!!

[okawbow]

More progress after a week out of town. I have the masts glued and shaped to size. The main boom is glued. Today was warm, so I filled the deck seams with Sealbest, elastomeric blacktop rubberized, crackfiller. It was easy to use, but a little messy. It did a good job of filling the seams, and smoothed well with a rubber gloved finger. It took 12 tubes to fill about 250 lineal feet of 1/4"(at the top) V grooves. I removed the tape after an hour or so, and the sealant was semiset. Looks really "salty" and seems to adhere very well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...n/photostream/

[okawbow]

After working the past few weeks on the masts, booms, and iron fittings; I got around to coating the cedar decking with "Flood" brand clear deck treatment. The hatches are varnished also. The deck treatment looks good and is not slick at all.

I'm almost ready to install the electric motor system. The interior is gutted, but can wait till after launching. The sails are done and look like they will fit great. Hope to be in the water by fall.

[johnw]

Looks great!

[johngsandusky]

Great!

[okawbow]

Varnishing the masts now. They dry really fast in the 100+ degree heat. Laminated from 4 pieces of Douglas fir.

I'm also half finished painting the hull.

[johnw]

Thanks for the update!

[chill]

Looking forward to pictures when you get it in the water already.

[Bob Cleek]

Gilmer's Privateer 26 hull appears quite suitable for coversion to a tabloid schooner. It looks like you are making good progress.





You'll see from the original sail plan that the center of effort is just a smidgen forward of the doghouse "step." Calculate the center of effort of the working sails on the schooner rig you've got and see how close it comes. That'll give you a good idea of whether or not she might have excessive helm in one direction or another. The full keel should make her less sensitive in that respect in any event. You can tweak the headsail area some to get her to balance better, as you know. You definitely don't want the center of effort on the schooner rig to be any higher than the designed center of effort on the cutter rig, if you can at all help it. Weather or lee helm can be corrected with the rudder at the expense of speed, but a center of effort that is too high will result in a tender boat and that you certainly dont' want.

Now, there is one area of concern you may (or may not) want to reconsider, no matter how much effort you've put into that deck planking. You've got the grain running the wrong way. Sorry, but I'd feel like a jerk if I patted you on the back and led you down the garden path.

A planked deck like you've got there, if it is to really remain watertight and last any length of time, must be laid with vertical grain stock. Wood swells across the grain. This swelling width wise is what pushes the planks together and keeps them watertight. (That and the caulking, of course.) Slash cut planking (with the grain running athwartships as you have it) will cup and pull apart at the seams in relatively short order and then leak. If you pound a lot of caulking in there, it's only going to stress the hull and deck structure, but never stop the decking's natural movement. Such vertical grain planking has to be relatively narrow, not like a carpenter built house deck, which is what you've got there. Thickness is also required to hold fastenings and leave room (about 1/4" depth) for plugging the plank fastenings. I'd guess you'd want deck planking that is about 1.5 inches thick and maybe two or 2.5 inches wide. That can be ripped out of construction grade 2x or larger plank, then turn the deck planks so the grain is vertical. (Construction dimensioned lumber will yield a 1 7/8" width. If you can get thicker plank to rip, so much the better.)

Plane a caulking seam along the side of the deck planks and caulk with cotton. Use a quality seam compound to fill the seams. Don't skimp on this. The stuff that is made to stop leaking windows and gutters will not work over the long haul and digging it out to do over is a royal PIA. I would recommend Jefferys' Marine Glue (it's not glue) or Teak Deck Systems polysulfide. Teak Deck Systems is expensive as all get out. Like maybe $12 or $15 a caulking tube. Jefferys is cheap, relatively speaking, and lasts as well. It is sold by Davey and Co., London, http://www.davey.co.uk/where_to_buy_davey_and_co.html, whose US distributors are the Wooden Boat Foundation in Washington, http://nwmaritime.org/chandlery/index.php?p=home and R&W Rope in New Bedford, Mass. http://www.rwrope.com/ You may want to save these URL's to your "favorites" because they also sell traditional fittings and such which you may need for your rig.

A 27 pound package of Jeffreys will run you about $150. That's more than you'll likely need, but you can probably go "halfsies" with somebody or something. (You'll probably pay that just for the amount of tubed polysulfide seam compound you need anyway.) It's basically a rubberized tar. Jeffreys is heated on a hot plate and poured into the seam, then shaved or scraped flush with the deck when it cools and hardens. The advantage of Jeffreys is that when there is ever any separation from the seam edges, it can be easily remelted with a soldering gun and restored. (All these products will eventually separate.)

If you don't want to mail order Jeffreys, or pay for the "high priced spread," Sikaflex seam compound is less reliable option, but in any event much better than house construction goops.

I realize you aren't looking to build a "gold plater," but if the decks leak, your decks and deck beams will rot and turn to mush in fairly short order, particularly with woods which are not highly decay resistant.

Also, do what you can to keep the weight of the rig as low as possible. (Which is a challenge with all the top hamper a gaff schooner rig has.) Even if you can add ballast, there's a limit to that and the closer you can keep the boat to its designed waterline, the better it will sail. The design isn't a heavyweight boat to begin with, so adding weight is going to have a much greater effect than it would on a "crab crusher."

All this may sound picky and onerous, since you'd have to take up the decking you've laid, but I'm just sayin' because it looks like you have the skills and the vision to put together a neat little boat there and I'd hate to see anybody go to all the trouble and then run into grief in short order because of a major construction error. Skill and execution wise, you're doing a great job.

[okawbow]

Thanks for the advice, Bob

I realize that the 1 1/4" cedar decking I used is not ideal. It was all I could get locally. I plan to use a full deck cover when the boat is not in use. The wood I used is at least 10 years old, and has not cracked or cupped in the change from 30 degree wet weather to 105 degree dry weather so far. I'll try to keep it as dry as possible. If I were going to use the boat as a cruiser; I would put 1/4" ply over the deck and cover with canvas and paint.

The CE on my schooner rig with the lower sails, should be about the same point fore and aft as the P26 sloop, and a couple feet lower. With the topsail and fisherman, the CE may be about the same height, but a shade behind. I'll only have full sail up in relatively lighter winds, so weather helm should be controllable. I may also use a larger jib or genoa in light air.

I'm trying to keep weight down aloft by using light weight blocks and serving eyes on the rigging, instead of using a lot of heavier iron fittings. The masts are lighter than they look. I can easily lift them by myself.

I'll be happy if the boat looks right and sails ok in moderate winds.

[Bob Cleek]

Thanks for the advice, Bob

I realize that the 1 1/4" cedar decking I used is not ideal. It was all I could get locally. I plan to use a full deck cover when the boat is not in use. The wood I used is at least 10 years old, and has not cracked or cupped in the change from 30 degree wet weather to 105 degree dry weather so far. I'll try to keep it as dry as possible. If I were going to use the boat as a cruiser; I would put 1/4" ply over the deck and cover with canvas and paint.

The CE on my schooner rig with the lower sails, should be about the same point fore and aft as the P26 sloop, and a couple feet lower. With the topsail and fisherman, the CE may be about the same height, but a shade behind. I'll only have full sail up in relatively lighter winds, so weather helm should be controllable. I may also use a larger jib or genoa in light air.

I'm trying to keep weight down aloft by using light weight blocks and serving eyes on the rigging, instead of using a lot of heavier iron fittings. The masts are lighter than they look. I can easily lift them by myself.

I'll be happy if the boat looks right and sails ok in moderate winds.

With the center of effort as you've described, she may well sail better than with the original cutter rig! So long as you know the limitations of the decking, you'll do okay. Nice work!

[okawbow]

New coat of "Brightside" rolled on today.

[jsjpd1]

That's coming along very nicely! I'm looking forward to seeing it rigged up.

Jim

[okawbow]

Getting close to launch day. The masts are done and the other spars have 3 coats of varnish and counting. My iron fittings are at the galvanizer and should be ready in a few days.

I am almost finished with the cockpit and house. A few more days of paint and varnish will do it.


I'll get to the inside work after launching.

[Crazer]

Looking good, she'll sure stand out on the lake. Can't wait to see her in the water with the rig up!

Oh, and I hope you've rolled on a new coat of bottom paint before launch day!

[okawbow]

Will do the antifouling next week or two. Also am making up the standing rigging with galvanized cable.

[Woxbox]

Sharp. Don't forget the swivel gun.

[okawbow]

I have a little brass cannon with a 3/4" bore that makes a good BOOM! It's left over from my muzzleloading days, but I could make a swivel yoke for it and mount it on the rail.

[johnw]

Oh, that looks nice!

[okawbow]

Looking good, she'll sure stand out on the lake. Can't wait to see her in the water with the rig up!

Oh, and I hope you've rolled on a new coat of bottom paint before launch day!

Got started preping for bottom paint and couldn't stop myself. Also got the ports cut out and a coat of primer on the house.

[donald branscom]

I've started building my hybrid fiberglass-wood schooner. I don't have the time or experience yet to build a wooden hull, but I have a Kenner Privateer 26 hull that I am making into a gaff schooner. The sparred length will be about 35 feet. I married the drawing for the hull with a sailplan from the pinky schooner "Dove", that I copied online.



I have cut off the fiberglass deck and am building a wooden deck. I bolted and glued fir clamps and cut and installed yellow pine deck beams and fir mast partners. I'm in southern Illinois, so I'm using lumberyard wood. I have cedar 5/4 planks for the deck. Today, I sawed out 8 pieces of douglas fir 1 1/2" by 5 1/2"by 25 feet long, to laminate for the masts. I'll use the rest of the fir for booms and gaffs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2052484...n/photostream/

This won't be a costly project. I'm building to workboat specs, and using galvanized wire and fittings. I want to end up with a boat that looks like a schooner, and on which I can learn the "ropes" for a larger schooner some day. I have the hull on a trailer, so it will be easy to move and launch.

Hopefully, I'll add pictures and have her in the water this year.

Chuck

On the standing galvanized rigging use Molly Hogan splices and clamps with thimbles and get the "plow grade steel".
1 X 7 wire. Same as PG&E uses.

[okawbow]

I will use Molly Hogan eyes for the topmast shrouds and stays, and also for the inner head stay. For the main and fore shrouds; I'll go around the mast and form a padded eye with a single wire for the pair of shrouds. I'll use a big hand Nicopress tool for the 1/4" wire. I plan to serve the ends of the shrouds and stays with tarred marline to hide the Nicopress swedges.

I'll use 1/2" galvanized turnbuckles at the bottom. The chainplates are 1/4" x 1 1/2" galvanized steel with 3, 3/8" grade 8 bolts.

[donald branscom]

I will use Molly Hogan eyes for the topmast shrouds and stays, and also for the inner head stay. For the main and fore shrouds; I'll go around the mast and form a padded eye with a single wire for the pair of shrouds. I'll use a big hand Nicopress tool for the 1/4" wire. I plan to serve the ends of the shrouds and stays with tarred marline to hide the Nicopress swedges.

I'll use 1/2" galvanized turnbuckles at the bottom. The chainplates are 1/4" x 1 1/2" galvanized steel with 3, 3/8" grade 8 bolts.

Safety wire those turn buckles. They do get loose. Sounds like a good plan.