My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

[wizbang 13]

An 8" softpad with 80 grit is a fine and correct tool to use, but not with a grinder.
"Grinder" is 5000 rpm or more
"Sander " is 2500 - 4000 , more or less
"polisher" is 0 - 1500 rpm.
A polisher is what one should be using on thin red cedar.
Also, all softbacks are not the same. they vary greatly. This tool is a polisher, It can run VERY slowly. And here are 3 very different softpads. One has been cut down to about 5 inches. Gluing 6" paper to a 5inch softpad allows one to sand concave areas very well. And before we get old.If disc sanding was better understood, we would not have to muck around with the concave /convex router business.

[gypsie]

Its looking great mate, well done. Very neat work, she'll turn out beautiful.

[MoMan]

Ive been looking about the internet and wanting to put something like this on the back of my transom thou this one is to small. Im wondering would any of you know where i could get my hands on a biiger one, say about 10 inch diameter. I would also like to know would the epoxy still stick to this sticker or would i have to put something else over it so the epoxy takes to it


http://www.zazzle.co.uk/leaping_salm...30082586134824

You're really considering plastering a garish STICKER on your beautiful wooden boat? It's your boat, but I'd really think twice about that. In my limited opinion, why not keep it a traditional, simple transom? It will look stunning.

If you do go that route, I would guess you'd put the sticker on over the epoxy, then coat it with varnish to protect it from UV. At least then you could sand it off in a couple of years (months?) when you realize how it cheapens the look of your boat. You would probably need to lightly scuff the glossy face of the sticker to get anything to adhere, which would probably ruin the image anyway. Other more experienced voices will be along shortly to further dissuade you.

[mrxireland]

Its looking great mate, well done. Very neat work, she'll turn out beautiful.

Cheers, and thanks for poping in

You're really considering plastering a garish STICKER on your beautiful wooden boat? It's your boat, but I'd really think twice about that. In my limited opinion, why not keep it a traditional, simple transom? It will look stunning.

If you do go that route, I would guess you'd put the sticker on over the epoxy, then coat it with varnish to protect it from UV. At least then you could sand it off in a couple of years (months?) when you realize how it cheapens the look of your boat. You would probably need to lightly scuff the glossy face of the sticker to get anything to adhere, which would probably ruin the image anyway. Other more experienced voices will be along shortly to further dissuade you.

Ive been in 2 minds on what to do but that idea of puuting it over the epoxy sounds ok incase i dont like it then ill sand it off like you say.

[mrxireland]

Today i called in and bought my 11.8kg of epoxy and some scrappers. I was very nearly persuaded to buy the woven roven in the shop that sells the epoxy but decided not to buy it because i rememberd someone on here telling me to use whats on the plans. Hes told me that other guys use the woven roven and its just as good or even better but il just send away for eglass at 6oz or as close as to it that i can get it at.

Ive been looking online for some uv varnish and want to know will this stuff below be good enough to paint on over my epoxy. The guy had some different stuff in the shop but he said it wasnt that great so i decided not to buy this as well.

http://www.google.ie/aclk?sa=L&ai=C9.../yacht-varnish

[bthomas]

Varnish is a bit personal...get used to how a particular product applies and you will reach for it over and over. I got used to Captains 1015 on my first application.

I recall playing with some different brands in the early 1980's...can't remeber what brands but do recall I personally was not happy with Polyurethane . I was able to get it on OK but did not like how it ages and had no sucess trying to touch up wear scratches. Then found it was unecessarily difficult to sand to refinish. I returned to traditonal spar varnish...in my case the 1015 and never ventured forth again.

I would only use poly only on floors inside my house [when its time to sand you are grinding off massive amounts of wood anyway].

On your link I did not see a reference that this is a poly product ...but they are far more common on household brands so you may want to ask or research before pulling trigger.

Others may have had more promising results w Poly ...just sharing my own bias opinion.

PS--looking for next pictures and think you made right decision regards woven roven...you will be thankful you ordered the more flexible cloth when you are laying your 6oz inside the boat [it "drapes" more easily]

[mrxireland]

Varnish is a bit personal...get used to how a particular product applies and you will reach for it over and over. I got used to Captains 1015 on my first application.

I recall playing with some different brands in the early 1980's...can't remeber what brands but do recall I personally was not happy with Polyurethane . I was able to get it on OK but did not like how it ages and had no sucess trying to touch up wear scratches. Then found it was unecessarily difficult to sand to refinish. I returned to traditonal spar varnish...in my case the 1015 and never ventured forth again.

I would only use poly only on floors inside my house [when its time to sand you are grinding off massive amounts of wood anyway].

On your link I did not see a reference that this is a poly product ...but they are far more common on household brands so you may want to ask or research before pulling trigger.

Others may have had more promising results w Poly ...just sharing my own bias opinion.

PS--looking for next pictures and think you made right decision regards woven roven...you will be thankful you ordered the more flexible cloth when you are laying your 6oz inside the boat [it "drapes" more easily]

Ill have a look into the spar varnish 1015 and see if i can get it on this side of the big pond.

As regards to the woven roven, ive made a thread here just a few mins ago and im in 2 minds still what to use as im now thinking of using the plain weave e glass at 4.8oz but still need to hear other builders thought son this.

As for more pics, i havent been out doing anymore on the boat since my last pics as i was away for a long wknd watching the famous Glasgow Celtic and ive still got a massive hangover from all the guiness i was drinking none stop for 3 days , think i need to sign myself in for a new liver tho but ill get the finger out tomorrow and finishing off the strips.

[Canoez]

I'd suggest finding the 6oz cloth that is recommended. You will be much happier with the results. Going with the lighter 4.8oz cloth might work, but it also may compromise strength.

Avoid the roving unless specified - it's fairly coarse , doesn't conform well and will take lots of resin to fill resulting in a heavy boat that is probably "aesthetically challenged". Another thing to consider is that some roving fabrics have a coating that is specifically for polyester resin, not epoxy. Some have a coating that will work well with both, but you'd need to know that.

[mrxireland]

I'd suggest finding the 6oz cloth that is recommended. You will be much happier with the results. Going with the lighter 4.8oz cloth might work, but it also may compromise strength.

Avoid the roving unless specified - it's fairly coarse , doesn't conform well and will take lots of resin to fill resulting in a heavy boat that is probably "aesthetically challenged". Another thing to consider is that some roving fabrics have a coating that is specifically for polyester resin, not epoxy. Some have a coating that will work well with both, but you'd need to know that.

I found this at 5.7oz cloth but i dont know if this is ok to use. http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...-mtr-wide.aspx

The woven rooven cloth that i posted above is acceptable to use with epoxy. I even used the 280g on my canoe i built last year and havent had any problems with it.

I dont think ill be able to get the 6oz cloth here in ireland or uk so itll either be the 4.8 or the 7.1 cloth that ill have to use.

I have emailed the guy i got the plans off to see if its ok to use the 4.8oz cloth but i dont expect a reply before tomorrow. Ive done some reading online and there is guys who like to use the lighter cloth but im still in 2 minds on what todo. I know im really supposed to use 6oz cloth but i cant source it here and i cant see there being much difference on using teh lighter cloth as its only 1.2g lighter

[bthomas]

If I had to choose I would choose the heavier available cloth (7.1) rather than opt for the lighter cloth. The 7.1 cloth is still going to drape [lay smoothly on the boat's curves...real issue particularly inside] more readily than a woven roven .

I beleive dropping down from 6oz to 4.8 oz could be more loss of structure and longevity than just the % change (although that itself is 20% difference)

[gstanfield]

I would go with the heavier cloth based on the factor of your scaling the boat larger than designed. By making the boat larger you'll probably want the increased scantlings anyway just for extra reassurance.

[mrxireland]

If I had to choose I would choose the heavier available cloth (7.1) rather than opt for the lighter cloth. The 7.1 cloth is still going to drape [lay smoothly on the boat's curves...real issue particularly inside] more readily than a woven roven .

I beleive dropping down from 6oz to 4.8 oz could be more loss of structure and longevity than just the % change (although that itself is 20% difference)

I would go with the heavier cloth based on the factor of your scaling the boat larger than designed. By making the boat larger you'll probably want the increased scantlings anyway just for extra reassurance.

I placed my order before i seen these replies and i ordered the 7.1oz for the outside and the 4.8oz for the inside. With all teh reading i done online i think it should be ok because there builders just using 4oz cloth for both sides of theyre canoes. I wanted to use the 4.8oz so i could also save on epoxy but just decided to get the 7.1 as well just for he extra strength on the outside.




Thanks for the PMs bthomas, ill read over them after diner as im just in the door from doing a few hours at teh build today

[mrxireland]

I was out today from 1.00-6.00 and managed to lay about 16 strips. It started to get real complicated when the strips met the inner keel. It says in the plans that i can also use a football shape for when i get to this part of the boat but its to be made before i start striping and i never done this ;(

It also says that i can rip the bead end of a strip and work away from the inner keel instead of working up towards it like you do normally but i cant get my head around this either. With the sharp curve, how will i be able to work the cove into the bead with such a sharp curve.


Today i also bought my e-glass , 10m of 200g pr sq mtr and 10 mtrs of 135g pr sq mtr. I also bought some gloves and mixing cups and the total came to £107 with P&P included. I also went to the builders yard and bought some more glue and 12mm staples, i know i should be using 14mm but they only sold 14mm staples and i wasnt running about town looking for them as i think the 12mm will do. The price of the glue and staples came to 22euro. All this on top of my epoxy and spreaders(£152) takes me up to a total of 1027.50 euro. Looking at this price now, i really hope the misses doesnt come across this thread or ill be having to pack my bags,lol. I never expected this to be this much but when i started out, i didnt pencil in all the tools and parts i had to buy.

I think the rest of the materials i need will prob amount to another 100euro so i cant wait to the day comes till i start spending money on this boat. When i started out i honestly thought id only need about 450-600 euro,lol.








Total cost so far 1027.50 euro
time spent 72hours

[Canoez]

I placed my order before i seen these replies and i ordered the 7.1oz for the outside and the 4.8oz for the inside. With all teh reading i done online i think it should be ok because there builders just using 4oz cloth for both sides of theyre canoes. I wanted to use the 4.8oz so i could also save on epoxy but just decided to get the 7.1 as well just for he extra strength on the outside.

That's well and true, but those are small canoes which are relatively lightly laden. Your boat will see more forces and has much larger surfaces for which the stronger glass is a good idea - hence the reason that the designer specified the 6 oz. You may want to reconsider the lighter cloth on the inside and get the heavier. The use of the different weights of cloth is a matter of scale - not just "I'm gonna use this".

[mrxireland]

That's well and true, but those are small canoes which are relatively lightly laden. Your boat will see more forces and has much larger surfaces for which the stronger glass is a good idea - hence the reason that the designer specified the 6 oz. You may want to reconsider the lighter cloth on the inside and get the heavier. The use of the different weights of cloth is a matter of scale - not just "I'm gonna use this".

I think that my order is already on its way because when i placed it, they said theyd get it out to me today and i should have it in a few days seeing as its coming from the UK.


I have also read that theres builders using 4oz cloth for theyre canoes that they use in white water so i think il be ok as i have more or less the same strength only one side is 1oz stronger and teh other side is 1oz less that it should be. If i remember correctly, in gill gillpatricks book he says that he made a canoe with 6oz cloth on the inside and only 2oz on the inside.

I can see where your coming from but i cant see the 1.2 oz less on the inside will make much difference, i hope im right thou .

[Canoez]

Because of the direction of forces on the hull, the strength on the inside of the hull can be more important than on the outside. Gilpatrick has that notion backwards. Think about it for a minute. The inside of the hull is in compression and flexure in terms of forces. The outside is also in flexture, but tends to be in tension. The epoxy/glass matrix is much stronger in tension than compression. Don't believe me? Check out this table from West System. This is unreinforced resin. The reinforced epoxy glass matrix is stronger than resin alone, but the additional strength mostly has to do with tension and flexure. Glass fiber is a rope, basically, and you can't push on a rope.

I build small canoes using 4 oz inside and out because that's what's specified by the designer. I wouldn't dare do that with a white-water boat unless I was looking for a "throw away".

I hope your assumption works for you. More than likely it will unless you experience really rough conditions or a heavily laden boat.

[mrxireland]

Huston, we have a problem! yet again

I was out today for 4 hours and when i got to the bottom of the hull where the strips meet the inner keel i just couldnt get the exact cut and fell short by about 5mm. I can get the cut at one end but when i went to plane it at the other end, it just wouldnt go in properly but when i took enough off with the plane so it could fit it, i was a few mm short.

Heres a pic of how much im out tho the picture isnt that great because i was using my uncles phone and the camera on it is crap. Ill take more tomorrow with my camera






Heres a picture of the other end of this strip that fits perfectly





Heres a picture of it butted up to the inner keel at the back of the boat before i had to do the same on the other end. You can see here also that i made a perfect joint with the other end of the strip overhanging the stem.












I reverted back to my plans and it says that i can start working away from my inner keel starting with a straight strip with the bead end ripped off because its an easier method of striping the lawton tender because it takes such a sharp bend.

Im wanting to know is there anyone on here that has done this and how did it turn out. I think it sounds easier but when i get down to the very last strip or few strips, i might have a big problem getting the last one in because i wont have much room to play with and trying to get the bead into the cove with such a tight space just isnt going to happen.

Another option that im thinking of doing is beveling my inner keel like i done with my stem so that the strips can over hang it, instead of butting upto it. This way i can just cut of the excess and cover what ive done with my outer keel just like what i done with my outer stem. I would think this is an easier option for me but id like to hear your thoughts on it first before i do anything else.





Total cost so far 1027.50 euro
time spent 76hours

[bthomas]

I have just experience with the single hull but recall cutting a strip around the same section of my hull and like you finding it was short ike you describe.

Mine was able to be worked out by steeply beveling the side that faces the inside of the boat....as you work to the top the bevel gets "shallower" [read it begins to look like a real long scarf joint]. The effect is because of the undercut bevel on the inside of the boat you start to sneak up on the fit until it sits flush or level...IOW instead of a gap you keep block planing until you pop in place.

Using this technique you may find you want to make one more pass with the plane just to give the glue room [it can be fit so tight as to have no space for glue].

BTW ...I had sent by PM some links to some of my favorite builds did you receive private mail and get a chance to read those threads?

Bill

[mrxireland]

I have just experience with the single hull but recall cutting a strip around the same section of my hull and like you finding it was short ike you describe.

Mine was able to be worked out by steeply beveling the side that faces the inside of the boat....as you work to the top the bevel gets "shallower" [read it begins to look like a real long scarf joint]. The effect is because of the undercut bevel on the inside of the boat you start to sneak up on the fit until it sits flush or level...IOW instead of a gap you keep block planing until you pop in place.

Using this technique you may find you want to make one more pass with the plane just to give the glue room [it can be fit so tight as to have no space for glue].

BTW ...I had sent by PM some links to some of my favorite builds did you receive private mail and get a chance to read those threads?

Bill

Im just reading your thread now and noticed on it that you mention that you had to fill in some gaps with epoxy and filler. Id prefer not to have any gaps at all because i think they will be noticeable when looking down on the boat. I think that if i bevel my inner keel, ill solve this problem when the strips get glued ontop of the inner-keel.



P.s, yeah i got your PMs, if you scroll up, youll see i thanked you for them but thanks again. I had a wee read last night and got a few tips,

[mrxireland]

Ive been looking at what type of timber i will be using for my seat and deck and am thinking of using one of these 3 but still undecided. Does it matter what type either hard/soft wood or will i have to go with hardwood because its stronger.

Cherry Prime North American Black

Cherry is a highly attractive timber used for kitchen cabinets and furniture.
Durability:
Moderately Durable

Density:
580 kg/m³

Workability:
Sands well to give a beautiful lustrous finish

Uses:
Furniture, Cabinet making, High class joinery

Available Lengths of Cherry Prime North American Black:
Random Widths 7ft + Longer
1 x 6 + W
1¼ x 6 + W
1½ x 6 + W
2 x 6 + W
2½ x 6 + W
3 x 6 + W
4 x 6 + W Available on request
Dimension Stock 7ft + Longer
1 x 4
1 x 6
1 x 8





Chestnut European

This timber resembles oak but with a straight grain.
Durability:
Moderately Durable

Density:
540 kg/m³

Workability:
Easy to work with. Nails and screws easily. Smooth finish

Uses:
Heavy structural use, Exterior joinery, Furniture, Flooring

Available Lengths of Chestnut European:
27mm Waney Edge 2.450 - 3.050
40mm Waney Edge 2.450 - 3.050
52mm Waney Edge 2.450 - 3.050






Mahogany African

Costing less than other mahoganies, African Mahogany is a light to deep-brown moderately durable timber. It glues, nails and screws well, being suitable for furniture and boat building.
Durability:
Moderately Durable

Density:
530 kg/m³

Workability:
Easy to work with. Works well with nails, screws and glue

Uses:
Furniture, Panelling, Flooring
Available Lengths of Mahogany African:
2.10 m + Longer








If none of them are suitable, heres a link to all the different type timbers that i have a choice from

http://www.mcgregorhardwood.com/timber/all.php

[bthomas]

I haven't read my own build thread (or made any updates ) in quite some time....best re-read what I wrote . Currently getting the last of 5 quarts of finish on the outside (good news is have already completed inside). Launch schedule not set *the launch site is about 5 minutes away but still have a work list of things I must do before launch. I want it a compete as possible becaue like you I hope mine will get used for fishing and hope it will be fall before I add any more paint or varnish. I owe you a picture of what my worst gap/filler looks like when glassed and w finish applied...for now all I can say is a small gap properly filled gets "lost". Sorry I missed your acknowledgement re PM's ...glad they reached you.

[TXdoug]

Mrx thanx for sharing your build. You are getting good advise from guys with more experience than I so I won't have much to add. A couple times I wanted to jump in but Canoez covered it before I could get my words out, he is good.

Just food for thought. I try to break down the football into manageable parts. This is a 24 foot canoe so mileage may vary. Here are some pics, seemed like it would fit with a keel such as yours.

[gstanfield]

That's a pretty sweet way of doing it. I did the bottom of my puddle duck by interlocking each strip with the one opposite and alternated the entire thing until I had one strip to fit in the very middle:



It's more work this way and each piece had to be hand fitted with a tiny sureform, but I'm pleased with the results

[gstanfield]

..and yes, there are a couple of small spots that had to be filled in with thickened epoxy, but unless you are a boat builder you won't see them unless I point them out. I'm not perfect nor do I expect my boat to be

[mrxireland]

I haven't read my own build thread (or made any updates ) in quite some time....best re-read what I wrote . Currently getting the last of 5 quarts of finish on the outside (good news is have already completed inside). Launch schedule not set *the launch site is about 5 minutes away but still have a work list of things I must do before launch. I want it a compete as possible becaue like you I hope mine will get used for fishing and hope it will be fall before I add any more paint or varnish. I owe you a picture of what my worst gap/filler looks like when glassed and w finish applied...for now all I can say is a small gap properly filled gets "lost". Sorry I missed your acknowledgement re PM's ...glad they reached you.

Yeah that would be great to see a few close up pics of the small gaps. What mm would you say your small gaps are just so if i do go ahead and stick with the way im doing it, i know not to over do it and make the holes wider than yours

Mrx thanx for sharing your build. You are getting good advise from guys with more experience than I so I won't have much to add. A couple times I wanted to jump in but Canoez covered it before I could get my words out, he is good.

Just food for thought. I try to break down the football into manageable parts. This is a 24 foot canoe so mileage may vary. Here are some pics, seemed like it would fit with a keel such as yours.

I really like what youve done here but can you tell me was it difficult getting the last strip in on each side because i think that with it being such a tight gap, trying to get the bead into the cove will break most of the cove end. I was going to go out today and finish of the strips but i think ill hold off another few days so i can get some more info. Ill take a run out later and get a few better pictures so yous can see how much ive left to strip so yous can talk me through it.

When im out at the boat, will i be able to take the staples out and start planing/sanding parts of the boat or should i wait untill the hull is closed in. Just thinking this so when im out, its not a wasted trip and i can at least get something done even if its for about 2 hours or so.

[mrxireland]

That's a pretty sweet way of doing it. I did the bottom of my puddle duck by interlocking each strip with the one opposite and alternated the entire thing until I had one strip to fit in the very middle:



It's more work this way and each piece had to be hand fitted with a tiny sureform, but I'm pleased with the results

I also like the way you have striped this at the bottom of the hull but im working towards an inner keel so i cant really do this approach but it looks alot easier than what ive to do. Ive got the plans here of your canoe and when i get round to building it, ill be doing exactly what youve done here

[mrxireland]

After more thought on what im going to use for my seats and deck ive decided now to use soft maple. Ive done some reading online and seen some pictures and happy with this timber. I like the lightness and also teh grain of it when sanded so i think it wil look well beside the western red cedar. Ill pick some up next wknd when im up north for a wedding im best man at.

Im suppose to use 3/4 for my seats but the start selling it at 1inch so ill have to do with that thicker wood or i could plane 1/4 of it with my handheld planer. Illl see how heavy it is before i decided to plane this thou because if its not that heavy, theres no point in all that extra work just to make it that wee bit lighter.


Maple / Soft Prime North American

Softer than Hard Maple, Soft Maple is particularly useful for furniture which has a stained finish.
Durability:
Durable

Density:
550 kg/m³

Workability:
Excellent staining properties

Uses:
Furniture, Turnery, Interior joinery
Available Lengths of Maple / Soft Prime North American
Random Width 7ft + Longer
1 x 5 + W
1¼ x 5 + W
1½ x 5 + W
2 x 5 + W
2½ x 5 + W
3 x 5 + W
Dimension Stock
1 x 4
1 x 6
Wide Spec
1 x 8 + W

[MoMan]

Here are some pix of how I closed my hull for reference.





The narrow ends required a lot of planing, and the last super skinny piece was a challenge, but it came together pretty well, with just a little filling required.

[mrxireland]

Heres a few pics of where im at now

[mrxireland]

While i was out taking these pictures i took the staples out in 1 side and planed it for few hours. At first i was enjoying planing it but after awhile it got abit repetative and boring. Once i got the hang of the plane properly the cedar was coming of nicely but i was getting worried that i was taking to much off.

Heres a few pics below of what i attempted with the back of the boat with where my inner keel meets the strip. It looks abit different in the picture than what it is because it looks a mess here but ill be able to fix it up with some thickend epoxy. Itll also be covered with the outer keel so it wont be noticeable.


#
#
#






This strip below is just a wee tester and isnt glued in . I planed the top of it to show how the outer keel will sit on top of this and hide this messy work

[mrxireland]

Heres a few pics of the underside to show that i still have a true line at the corner of my inner keel.

[MoMan]

She's looking mighty fine! Keep it up and you'll be glassing in no time.

[mrxireland]

She's looking mighty fine! Keep it up and you'll be glassing in no time.

I think i should have the strips finished next day im out so thats another milestone done and i cant wait to get the epoxy and glas son because thats when you can see the true look of the strips.

I was wondering is it possible to varnish the boat before i put the glass on instead of using epoxy. Isnt the first coat just to stop the suction the cedar has with the 1st coat when glassing.




Total cost so far 1027.50 euro
time spent 79hours

[bthomas]

MoMan's picture with the barbell hand weight reminded me how many weights I was using to keep all the planks sprung into position at this stage. I will say your transom looks more kind to deal with than the wine glass/skeg sort that was causing my strips to have to make a full 1/2 twist from near flat in the middle of the boat to near vertical at the stern.

Regards your question how much gap is tolerable it is I think mostly a personal decision ...more so than structual (within any reasonable gap you'd likely tolerate anyway) . This is just an uniformed non professional "free" FWIW opinion, but one based on fooling around with my own boat repairs since 1980.

Does that sound evasive? Not meant too, I did shoot some pictures which will get up over the next few days ...worst spot I found is a bit less than 1/8" [3mm]. It is on the long scarf end on of one of the planks on my boat against the center strip [in the same are you are battleling]. It I what lead me to start back beveling as described.

Not perfect by any means but I am quite satisfied with the appearance. I used some cedar sanding dust mixed w epoxy. My filler is darker than the adjecent wood strips...I have ince read that if you mix cedar sanding dust and some white adhesive filler that you can blend to a lighter color for something less visible. (West has several versions.... I use 403 as a thickener for fillets etc so if i had done my reading beforehand I could made a lighter color mix).



Enjoy this planking time , take your time , get fits that satisfy you,,,your pictures show some nice work to this stage so trust your instinct and most of all enjoy this period of the build ....I found it the most pleasant part.

Regards planing strips to level surface, IMO you are wise to be watching closely the thickness...all I read is these panel builds get a lot of their strength from the separation of the two glass skins (inside and outside ).

Confessional: I was working awkwardly in tight quarters of my building , I was stretching to reach a section inside the hull and I slipped and started to fall ...managed to then drop the sander (running trigger locked "on" ) as I was trying to regain my balance and not myself fall entirely into my hull. The 8" soft pad disc dropped from my hand and the edge of the disc scarred two strips (very localized) before I could grab it back securely.

Made me sick to my stomarch I had two "deep" two gouges in two strips right beside one another. Slept on the problem. On the one hand I was very tempted to make it cosmetically invisible by just building up the gouges with clear resin (multiple applications). That was tempting because the whole episode was emabarassing and I thought I could conceal it. But in the end I decided instead to apply a couple of short (approx 3") cedar strip overlay patches even knowing they would be visible and I would be opening myself to tell the story WHY to anyone who noticed them for the life of the boat. Regardless shaped my patches to the odd curve shape of the gouge then feathered the ends. Epoxied them in place, then when time came to glass I knew my core would be more or less uniform. (actually slightly thick in the area of repair). Its a blemish of sorts but not something your eye finds readily and I have peace of mind knowing the core and skin separation is intact.

[TXdoug]

No no never try to put the varnish before the epoxy.

I did not use a bead and cove so I was able to play willie nillie with the strips.

I do now understand the purpose of the inner keel, I have always wondered how the bead and cove works out where those strips end. this place is great.

[mrxireland]

Thanks for the replies above guys, its a great help



Im going to make a new outer stem because im not happy with the one ive made because when i was making it, some of the pieces of ash popped out and when i was planing /sanding it, i had to plane it to the smallest piece so it would look ok but now it doesnt look good IMO.

Im going to make a new stem form and wrap a few strips of ash around it but id like to know will i be able to use just the thickness of the outer stem or will i have to put put the inner stem on as well. Im thinking it will be the same shape without it but will it fit over the inner stem?

[mrxireland]

Was out today for 5 hours and managed to get it all striped apart from the last 2 strips on each side. I was at the 2nd last strip for about 20mins and ended up throwing the head and went home because it was so annoying trying to get it in properly without breaking the cove or getting a nice cut.

I have most of it planned and just need to plane the top(bottom) and sand the rest. Ill be buying an orbital sander tomorrow for the job and will get some 60/80/120 grit sandpaper for the job.

Ive also been thinking about how ill go about epoxying the hull because it says that its to be 20 degrees for a good spread of epoxy and so it wont go a milky white when used in coldish conditions.

I cant even heat the shed because it has a massive opening and no electric in the shed although i do have some floor insulation left over from when i built my house and i could possibly close of the opening somehow and put a small heater in it, but will i have to leave the heater on over night.



Total cost so far 1027.50 euro
time spent 84hours

[mrxireland]

Nothing much to report other than ive just bought my timber for my seats. I went into the yard wanting to buy maple or larch but got talked into buying oak and now im sitting here disapointed that i did because ive just found out that its heavier than my other options. Now im sitting here thinking i should have even bought ash instead as its that bit lighter in weight.

It says on my plans that i should use 3/4 spanish cedar for my seats but im wondering can i rip this oak down smaller than 3/4 so it can be lighter but still strong enough to sit on. I bought 4 4ft lengths at 12in x 1in for £40 and will be planing at least 1/4 of, seems a terrible waste of money but they didnt have it in 3/4 thickness. I also spent £31 on a new orbital sander and now my total money spent now comes to 1116 euro

Im in belfast at the moment(200miles away) for a wedding i was at at the wknd but i cant wait to get back down to my boat and get some work done on it because now i have everything in to finish it. Just hope the weather picks up abit so i can get the ideal temp for the epoxy but knowing the weather here in ireland, ill have to wait till mid july for a good weeks weather and we wont see the sun again till next year.


Total cost so far 1116.50 euro
time spent 84hours

[bthomas]

mrxireland....better resist posting weather pronouncements the local tourist board might be offended by your cheery forecast.

That said my sympathies to you if its July before you see 20 C [68 degrees F]. I might be thinksing about plastic tarps and a heater.

But hey look on the bright side and count yourself lucky...you are following the epoxy manufacturer's recomendation....rather that than have a sticky gummy mess all over your good work that won't kick off hard.

To kill some down time you could maybe do a forum search...wanta bet you will find multiple posts where folks had trouble w epoxy curing? And you might count how many posts WANT to assume the manufacturer had a "bad batch" as the cause of their problem.

[knowing how easy it is to lose track its hard not to be quietly am suspicious of the mix ratio].

BTW when the time comes you likely will find its easy to get distracted if you are using pumps to measure...seems childish when you read it but I heartily endorse the oft repeated suggestion ..."one pump of resin then one pump of hardener and repeat until your mix bowls full". [rather than 10 pumps resin followed by 10 pumps hardener].

[mrxireland]

Have all the outside hull planed and sanded and i wetted a small patch with a wet cloth and im well pleased with what the boat will look like when wetted out. I started getting abit worried that i was taking to much off when sanding but eventually got finished it after 6 hours of planing/sanding with the orbital sander. I was covered in head to toe in sanding dust and the misses wasnt to pleased when i came home because the car and everywhere i walked in the house, i left a trail of sanding dust and the car was covered in it,lol.

One thing that annoyed me is i went through 5 sheets of sanding paper. It wasnt really the fact that i used 5, it was that IMO, the sanding paper wasnt done but after so long sanding with it, it came off and wouldnt stick to the sander anymore .


I made a 2nd outer stem but it doesnt fit over my inner stem as it should and now im in 2 minds on what todo now , should i use the 1st one seeing as it fits over it but its abit crooked or should i try and and cut the 2nd one with my jigsaw. Ill take a few pics of this tomorrow so yous can advise me on what to do.

I bought 25 sheets of sanding paper 10 sheets of 60grit, 10 sheets of 80 grit and 5 sheets of 120 grit for 26euro. This takes my total upto 1142.50 euro . I cant see me spending much more on this boat apart from a few rollers i need for putting the epoxy on.




Total cost so far 1142.50 euro
time spent 90hours

[bthomas]

FYI....I did not use rollers much at all...a couple for very last final coat of epoxy on inside only.

For most all my epoxy application I used a plastic spreader of the sort sold for spreading "bondo" auto putty (body filler). An alternative spreader that works well is simply a scrap of closed cell packing foam.

When saturating cloth generally when I tried using the foam roller and didn't have as good of control as w a plastic spreader. With a foam roller I was either leaving excess resin in the cloth or repeated rolling /rerolling which creates bubbles/foam.

For me the spreader was worth a few struggles to learn to use because it allows you to really mpove the epoxy around to where its needed and get excess epoxy out of the cloth.

When time comes for a "last fill coat" the spreader is still pretty efficent but i imagine a roller could be a good alternative for that final fill coat only.

Regards the final fill coat I read quite a few forum posts say just work quickly get plenty of epoxy on , ignore runs etc and just keep adding coats then there is plenty of epoxy to sand level while still avoiding sanding into the cloth weave. That is one school of thought.

I went slower, avoided runs and applied several thinner epoxy fill coats using a spreader or a homemade spreader from scrap packing foam so when time came to final sand the epoxy before varnish it was real easy (not much sanding required).

BTW nothing better i know of than foam rollers tipped off with foam brush for varnish application..

[mrxireland]

I have a few spreaders here, i bought them when buying my epoxy. Im near sure ive about 6 of them.

The temp has risen here in ireland to 20degrees and now ive an opportunity to get this glassed . I was out yesterday and filled in all the screw holes with epoxy mixed with cedar flour. It says on my plans that ive to put my stem on before i glass but i havent made up a new stem yet and was thinking can i just go ahead and glass it then put the stem on at a later date. This will be my 3rd stem made because i made a balls of the 1st and 2nd

[mrxireland]

Heres were im at now, I was out today and put the sealer coat of epoxy on ready for the fiberglass in the morning. Im going to put the fiberglass on about 9 in the morning and then a 2nd coat about 2 oclock instead of waiting till the next day for another coat. The temp is going to be up in the 20s right up untill mon/tues so this give me a god few days to get this side of the hull finished.

There was a few birds nesting in the shed and have sh1t on my boat a few times so i had to seal up the shed with some plastic sheeting so they wouldnt get in and ruin my 1st coat of epoxy, just hope they dont find away in again tonight.

[mrxireland]

Heres a few pics of the 1st stem i made which i wasnt going to use but have now decided ill be using it agin since i made a mes of the 2nd on i made. My uncle was helping me and he was the one who drew the lines out for thye 2nd stem and im now thinking he traced the wrong line from the plans because it wasnt the same shape as the front of the boat.

This picture below is it on without the epoxy and its sitting up abit at the front because my battery went dead on my drill and couldnt drive the screw the hole way in. Im in 2 minds to put the stem on after ive fiberglassed the hull or do it just before. Ive still a small amout of sanding to be done for the hull to be flush with the stem. Id say its sitting out about 2-3mm in places so will tidy it up tomorrow.

[bthomas]

good luck , sure all will go well ...you have put lots of thought planning into it already

best advice I can offer....spread resin starting from middle of the boat

sequence is apply resin to the top [bottom of hull] in the middle of the boat and with your spreader work the resin to the gunwale & towards bow and stern

....then mix your next batch of epoxy pour again on the top [bottom of boat] dumping this batch in front of the section of wetted out fiberglass
...again pull resin towards gunwale and bow and blend it back into the wet edge of the prior section
....the third batch will be to the rear of the first wetted out area

(continue in this fashion so you are always stretcthing cloth towards gunwale & bow and stern and always have a wet edge to blend into)

goal during layup is to spread out so cloth is fully wetted ( transparent ) but also so excess epoxy is squeezed out leaving cloth weave very apparent.

less critical but generally recomended
drape cloth when you first arrive and let it hang for as much time as you have while you make final prep and mix epoxy
[many recomend letting it hang overnite but I did not and got it on pretty easy , especially on outside].

[mrxireland]

Before i fiberglassed the outside i tried to sand with my orbital sander and this happened below in the pictures. I was abit worried and was going to stop what i was doing untill i sought advice on it. When sanding with the sander , it kept building up hard lumps of epoxy. I was ready to leave it but ended up hand sanding it with some 60grit sand paper to remove it then i sanded the entire hull this way as well.



w

[maarten]

Looks like epoxy build up in you're sandpaper, wich was deposited through heat on the surface.
Coarse sandpaper at low speed will get it of, or heat and scraper.

[mrxireland]

Heres the hull with the 200g per sq mtr e-glass on just an hour before i put my epoxy on. I laid this over and smoothed out with a brush to take the wrinkles out. I done the 2 sides together but at the keel line, i folded one side away from the overlap so i could get the epoxy on then laid it over again once it was epoxied. To be honest, i think it would look better if the 2 sides met at the keel line because then you wouldnt see the overlap on one side. Can anyone explain this to me, is there any real benifits to it overlapping at the keel line like ive done










Here below i have run into yet another problem thou its only in 1 spot. There is a spot on the hull where a few air bubbles have got stuck under the fiberglass. I kept tryimg to force them down with more epoxy but they just wouldnt disappear so i decided to cut them with a blade and some did close but a few of them still wouldnt disappear .

[mrxireland]

Just remembered that ive run out of ash for my skeg and im thinking will i be ok to use some left over white deal(pine) that ive lying about that should do the job. Im in 2 minds to bend the ask keel around the hull then put the pine skeg on top of teh keel instead of under it. Would this be fine what im going to do

[mrxireland]

good luck , sure all will go well ...you have put lots of thought planning into it already

best advice I can offer....spread resin starting from middle of the boat

sequence is apply resin to the top [bottom of hull] in the middle of the boat and with your spreader work the resin to the gunwale & towards bow and stern

....then mix your next batch of epoxy pour again on the top [bottom of boat] dumping this batch in front of the section of wetted out fiberglass
...again pull resin towards gunwale and bow and blend it back into the wet edge of the prior section
....the third batch will be to the rear of the first wetted out area

(continue in this fashion so you are always stretcthing cloth towards gunwale & bow and stern and always have a wet edge to blend into)

goal during layup is to spread out so cloth is fully wetted ( transparent ) but also so excess epoxy is squeezed out leaving cloth weave very apparent.

less critical but generally recomended
drape cloth when you first arrive and let it hang for as much time as you have while you make final prep and mix epoxy
[many recomend letting it hang overnite but I did not and got it on pretty easy , especially on outside].

I wish i had or remembered your wee tip because im near sure at where the air pockets are, i didnt bring it down to the sheerline, i think i swirled it around in a circle and the air has got trapped under the glass