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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

For epoxy use its much easier to stick with metric units for everything.If you know the weight of the cloth in grams/sq.metre and the number of square metres you need to cover,you can calculate the weight of glass.You should ai for a 1:1 ratio and allow for a little loss by absorption on you brushes and rollers.I don't understand quite how anybody arrives at an answer in gallons without knowing more about the viscosity of the resin.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by John Meachen
For epoxy use its much easier to stick with metric units for everything.If you know the weight of the cloth in grams/sq.metre and the number of square metres you need to cover,you can calculate the weight of glass.You should ai for a 1:1 ratio and allow for a little loss by absorption on you brushes and rollers.I don't understand quite how anybody arrives at an answer in gallons without knowing more about the viscosity of the resin.

Ive been trying to find 168g per-sq-mtr in the uk but im finding it difficult. Ive found a place that sells 135g and 200g per-sq-mtr thou and still undecided what ill use. As for your calculations, i honestly dont know how to work it out as im just new to boat building and find it difficult to work the calculations out.

Below is the dimensions of my boat but i wouldnt know how to work your calculations out. They will change slightly because i have added another 2ft to the boat.

 Length (LOA) 10.06' Length (LWL) 9.82' Beam (BOA) 45.00" Beam (BWL) 43.00" Weight 70 lbs. Displacement (Capacity) 575 lbs Draft (at Capacity) 4.83" Center Depth 19.81" Depth at Bow 23.16"

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I set up my forms 1.5 and 2 and stem form so i could bend my ash strips for my stem and put a piece of cedar strip along the sherline of it and have noticed that it takes a real sharp turn but when i put the strip to no2 and the point of the stem, the strip doesnt touch form 1.5. Im wondering would this have anything to do with me adding a few inches to the spacing so i can stretch the boat. When i pushed the strip so it meets for 1.5, i dont get a natural curve, its like an 'S'.

I have discused stretching the forms with the guy i got the plans so i can get a longer boat and he said this is fine, it even says in the booklet i get with teh plans that its ok to do this but now im abit worried incase ive overlooked something and its knocking me off. I cut all the forms to proper sizes, i run a chalk like along my strongback so i have a true line. I lined up the centre line on my forms with the chalk line and plumed the forms.

Can anyone tell me am i worring about nothing because im now thinking that it might all fall into place when i have all the forms
Last edited by mrxireland; 04-15-2012 at 02:25 PM.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Did you loft the boat at the size that you will be building at?All should be revealed if you can check your sections against a lofting.You really need to establish that the sections are correct before building anything too permanent.It may be that one of your sections is located at an original location rather than a scaled position and this needs to be eliminated as a posssibility.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by John Meachen
Did you loft the boat at the size that you will be building at?All should be revealed if you can check your sections against a lofting.You really need to establish that the sections are correct before building anything too permanent.It may be that one of your sections is located at an original location rather than a scaled position and this needs to be eliminated as a posssibility.

I dont know how to loft from plans. These plans are the type that i trace over, i put some carbon paper underneath, traced the lines onto some mdf then cut the forms from it. Ive been talking to some boat builder and also the guy who sold me the plans and theyve said that as long as i dont stretch it to long, i can get away with stretching it a few inchs so i can get a longer boat. Ill set up the forms and take a few pics of what (i think) the problem is

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Pictures are a good plan that will help so we have a good understanding what you are asking.

DISCLAIMER---I am a novice...I have only built a single cedar strip boat...consider my efforts to answer your questions accordingly

1.On my Rangeley build each station was evenly placed except at the stern of the boat which the spacing on one station shifted. Had I decided to stretch the design then I can imagine that I would have had to "float" that station for a fair line or the stretching could have exagerated the effect the designer resolved by special station positioning.

[your plans apparently number as stem/1.5/2....this numbering system may be a tip off the spacing is special for 1.5]

2. On the Rangely there is considerabe natural "S" in the design that requires the planking to be pulled into position at station between stem /station 2/ station 3. This is on the underneath of the bow and not present in the sheer at the bow.

The #2 station is visible in this photo:

The result of pulling the planking in to #2 is this shape:

But on the Rangely station #2 flares out at the deck level so the "S" that is present underneath is not visible at the deck/sheer.

The second picture in the start of your forum thread shows the sheer at the deck level and also the "S" in the underneath planking of the Lawton tender built to the plan length. If in the stretched version you are creating you are getting the "S" at the sheer/deck level then I would:
(1.) see if it can be smoothed out of the sheer by floating the spacing of station "1.5"
(2.) consider slightly changing the width at the deck/sheer level of of station "1.5" .

The amount you change the flare at the deck will have to be gently transitoned back to the design lines underneath.

[the way I would determine the change is with a batten if it can be smoothed out by changing the spacing positioning of the station so that the "S" at the sheer is only unfair by and inch or less then I would likely cheat the width of the mold station 1.5 to get the the fair line determined by the batten. Then gently transition from the sheer back to the design lines as I planked....you could do this with some spacers underneath the strips or as an alternate some simple blocking mounted on the station as you are planking]

Because your plan allowed you to trace mold 1.5 the more common fault (lofting error) is not likely the source of the unfairness. The spacing is what you have changed vs plan and I agree this is probably a condition created by the stretch and a complexity you will want to resolve with batten solutions before planking.
Last edited by bthomas; 04-16-2012 at 08:45 AM. Reason: disclaimer added

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by mrxireland
Im also thinking of adding 1 or 2 accent strips on each side made from ash or and possibly adding a few on the bottom of the hull. HAs anyone any pictures of any boats,canoes with 2 accent strips and some on the hull so i can get a good look at them before i start striping
Just a word of caution: Because ash is harder than the cedar, when you go to sand the hull you may find that the cedar sands away much faster than the ash, leaving you with a raised section of ash and an indented section of cedar. You would be better off using wood that is similar to the density of cedar, like peruvian walnut or basswood. Better yet, sort your cedar out and pick the lightest colored pieces and position them next to some darker contrasting cedar.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Heres a few pics ive took to show what i mean. Ill have more when ive all the forms up but i think its enough to show exactly what teh problem is. Im wondering now with your comments that this is the way this boat is designed. Ive sent the supplier of the plans a msg so hopefully he can clear things up for me.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by MoMan
Just a word of caution: Because ash is harder than the cedar, when you go to sand the hull you may find that the cedar sands away much faster than the ash, leaving you with a raised section of ash and an indented section of cedar. You would be better off using wood that is similar to the density of cedar, like peruvian walnut or basswood. Better yet, sort your cedar out and pick the lightest colored pieces and position them next to some darker contrasting cedar.

I was actuly thinking about this last night because when i was cutting the ash a few days ago and noticed that it was a real tough wood. TBH i dont want to be buying any other timber as im trying to keep the costs down and i already have extra ash here and the only timber i can get locally is pine so i wouldnt be able to get that wood you describe above.

I was liking the idea of the ash because of its colour and the grain thats in inside of it. I think ill just be careful around that area but do you think id have much of a problem because im in 2 minds now.

10. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by MoMan
Just a word of caution: Because ash is harder than the cedar, when you go to sand the hull you may find that the cedar sands away much faster than the ash, leaving you with a raised section of ash and an indented section of cedar. You would be better off using wood that is similar to the density of cedar, like peruvian walnut or basswood. Better yet, sort your cedar out and pick the lightest colored pieces and position them next to some darker contrasting cedar.
MoMan has it here. Look for woods that will sand like the cedar - it will make both fairing and sanding much easier. Also, pick woods that have natural contrast as dyeing the wood won't work well as the dye penetration would be limited. Also, you'll be removing material from the surface to fair and sand, so you'll probably be removing the colored layer of wood. There is huge color variation that can be found in the cedar alone. If you look at the picture of the Wavy Gravy below, you can see that the "football" on the bottom of the hull (American football, not European football...) has been made from darker strips than the upper section of the hull. The same with the feature strip. Everything on this hull is Western Red Cedar with the exception of the center line on the feature strip which is Basswood. Careful selection of strips can lead to great results.

Alternatively, if you look around, you'll find some woods with wonderful color that can include reds, pinks, greens, yellow and other hues naturally. If you wet the surface of many of these woods with a bit of water (No mineral spirits or turps!), you'll often see the color make a more pronounced appearance. Another option is to look for materials that have interesting grain - the figured grain against plain strips of grain makes for great accent strips.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

There's something wacky going on. The strips should not for an S curve at the sheer. It looks/sounds to me like the spacing is off. Did you add the same ammount between each form? That could be your problem. The spacing between 1 and 1.5 and 1.5 and 2 probably wants to be half the distance that you added between the other forms.

12. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Tim's got it spot on. If your forms were cut to the line of the paper patterns, you have a spacing error there somewhere. Go back and check the measurements. One issue that often causes problems with setting up the forms is when you don't measure spacing distances from the same side of the form. (i.e. right side of Station 1 to right side of Station 2) this becomes a compounding error as you go down the length of the strongback.

13. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Is the aft of each mold we are looking at the actual station line? Per the plan, do each of these molds need to be beveled so the batten touches the mold at the station line. If so, then you may be closer than it looks in the picture because the top mold we can see would be forcing the batten way fat of where it should be.

FWIW - I'm not sure of this type of build, just the first thing that occured to me.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I think the concerns highlighted in posts 111 and 112 are very relevant.The pictures are very useful for aiding understanding.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
Tim's got it spot on. If your forms were cut to the line of the paper patterns, you have a spacing error there somewhere. Go back and check the measurements. One issue that often causes problems with setting up the forms is when you don't measure spacing distances from the same side of the form. (i.e. right side of Station 1 to right side of Station 2) this becomes a compounding error as you go down the length of the strongback.

I dont think ive made any mistakes with teh spacing. I know that its to be 12inchs but the guy who sold me the plans has told me as long as i dont stretch it to much, it will be fine. Ive went through my booklet and i need to bevel some of the forms but i dont think it would make that much difference TBH but only time will tell as ill do this next.

Heres a few pics of the spacing ive to follow if im to have a 10ft boat and heres how i came to the new spacing with my calculations. There are 10 forms so that means i have to space them 10 times liek on teh plans. If i want a boat at 12ft, i multiply 12ft into inches( 12ft x 12inch = 144inchs) and i need to space them out now 10 times and that give me 14.4inchs for each space instead of 12inch. in teh space between form 1 and 1.5 i added 1.2 inch and done the same between form 1.5 and form 2.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Vernon
Is the aft of each mold we are looking at the actual station line? Per the plan, do each of these molds need to be beveled so the batten touches the mold at the station line. If so, then you may be closer than it looks in the picture because the top mold we can see would be forcing the batten way fat of where it should be.

FWIW - I'm not sure of this type of build, just the first thing that occured to me.

It says in the booklet that some of them have to be beveled but i dont think its going to pull it in as much as the distance that its sitting out.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Thanks again for anyone who has contributed to this thread because id be lost without all this feedback

18. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by mrxireland
When you say a spacing error, what exactly do you mean. Are you saying that i could have made a mistake with the forms and its now the spacing between them that's the problem.
Exactly.

Originally Posted by mrxireland
Heres a few pics of the spacing ive to follow if im to have a 10ft boat and heres how i came to the new spacing with my calculations. There are 10 forms so that means i have to space them 10 times liek on teh plans. If i want a boat at 12ft, i multiply 12ft into inches( 12ft x 12inch = 144inchs) and i need to space them out now 10 times and that give me 14.4inchs for each space instead of 12inch. in teh space between form 1 and 1.5 i added 1.2 inch and done the same between form 1.5 and form 2.

I think you've probably got the shape of the forms themselves to be correct. There may be some minor issues at the bow, but we'll discuss that in a moment.

I see two things being a possible problem here. The first is that you're doing a conversion from Imperial to Metric - have you checked those numbers? Is there a minor math error? NASA and the ESA missed putting a probe on Mars because of something like that...

The second is to look at the image above. For example. look at the 6" dimension just to the right of the notation "strongback". The vertical lines that are part of that dimension are called extension lines. Note that both extension lines are from the left sides of the forms? Often, people assume that this refers to the space between the forms. This is a common error when setting up a strongback.

Also, consider this.
You have chosen to stretch the boat to 12' from it's original 10.06' length that was on the plans. It's simple enough to multiply the spacing between patterns 2 and the transom by 1.2 to get the proportional increase in length and you also increased the spacing between 1 and 1.5 as well as 1.5 and 2. However, how did you stretch the stem form at the bow by 1.2? I would think this to be very difficult. If you didn't elongate that bow form forward of station 1, I would think that this is the source of your problems. (i.e. - the bow form is shorter than it needs to be.)

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
Exactly.

I think you've probably got the shape of the forms themselves to be correct. There may be some minor issues at the bow, but we'll discuss that in a moment.

I see two things being a possible problem here. The first is that you're doing a conversion from Imperial to Metric - have you checked those numbers? Is there a minor math error? NASA and the ESA missed putting a probe on Mars because of something like that...

The second is to look at the image above. For example. look at the 6" dimension just to the right of the notation "strongback". The vertical lines that are part of that dimension are called extension lines. Note that both extension lines are from the left sides of the forms? Often, people assume that this refers to the space between the forms. This is a common error when setting up a strongback.

Also, consider this.
You have chosen to stretch the boat to 12' from it's original 10.06' length that was on the plans. It's simple enough to multiply the spacing between patterns 2 and the transom by 1.2 to get the proportional increase in length and you also increased the spacing between 1 and 1.5 as well as 1.5 and 2. However, how did you stretch the stem form at the bow by 1.2? I would think this to be very difficult. If you didn't elongate that bow form forward of station 1, I would think that this is the source of your problems. (i.e. - the bow form is shorter than it needs to be.)

When i say i increased the spacing 1.2inch between form 1 and 1.5 i should have really say i added 1.2inch to the stem form because thats all 1. The forms no1 are half forms and are screwd onto the side of the stem form. I have a feeling that when i set all the rest of the forms up, they will be ok. I think ill just have to move these front forms about abit and itll all work out for me( i hope,lol)

Here below you can see the no1 form closer(half form) but you can also see that because i also moved that abit back (1.2inch), the top of the form doesnt meet the top of the stem form. Ill move this back into its original place to see if it makes any difference.

20. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Well, I don't know the length of the stem form, but let's say for argument's sake that it is 2'. The overall length of the stem form for your "stretched" version should be 28.8" (only in the horizontal direction) and the spacing between 1 and 1.5 (aft face to aft face) should be 7.2" - and the same between 1.5 and 2. The remaining increase in length should be in front of station 1. If not, the shorter distance between the stem and station 1 will force an unusual change in curvature. You also don't have the stem in place yet either and depending on the scantlings specified, might be a bit wider than the stem form, pushing the strips outwards. The devil is in the details...

Another consideration here is the fact that the MDF stock you are using isn't any thicker, but that should be negligible.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

You got me thinking there and i think i only added 1.2inch to the stem form instead of 3.6inch. I dont think added the 2.4inch at between the half form and the very start of the stem form. I think ive only added in 1.2inch where it meets form 1.5 but im now wonder how i would manage this because its actuly on the curve of the stem form and not on the straight line. Would this be the cause of the problem thou because im getting it between form 1.5 and form 2 and not at the stem front. Now im confused

22. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Yes, it could be your problem. The spacing at the front (up to form 1) will force the curvature of the stem between station 1 and 1.5 and 1.5 and 2. Take the strip and hold it against a few of the forms - say from form three forward. Let the strip follow it's natural bend forward from form 1 and I think you see that the point it would touch the stem is forward of what you have with a "fair" curve. This is for two reasons - first, the stem form is a bit short and second, the strip is heading off tangent to the curve of the strip - not bent to the stem as it naturally would.

This is one of those things that's difficult to explain without "being there".

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I was out today and sorted the problem. I set up all my forms and run a strip at the sheer line and when it came to where i had the problem, i moved the stem form out 2inches and the strip bent in without the 's' shape i was having. I also had to move form 1 a touch and had to bevel this a wee touch so it fitted in.

When i was 1st out thou, i was baffled at what the problem was because all my measurements were ok apart for the stem form thou it wasnt out by the 2 inchs i thought it was, it was out by 12mm. I honestly dont know how this happened but it wasnt the reason why the sheerline was out thou.

I was also having the same problem at the transom form so i decided to move this back a few inches so the sheerline run smooth around the the last few forms and it took out the small kink out of it.

I went and bought a 16ft 3x1 planed pine for my accent strip. I was expecting to pay more for this but it only cost 3.50 euro which i was happy enough at this. I was there a while digging through the pile thou as nearly every piece of pine had plenty of knots in them. I managed to find one thou that only had a very small knot at the end.

I also got a chance to bend my stem, i cut all the pieces to length and mixed up some epoxy with some fine ash saw dust and spread all between the layers and i also managed to get epoxy all over my hands. I had one pair of disposable gloves left and both them tore on me, i just took them off but while i was doing the bending, the epoxy got all over my hands, they where saturated in epoxy. Once i got the stem bent around the form i went and washed them with washing powder and sand,lol, yes i know, this isnt the proper way to wash epoxy off but its all i had out there and it seemed to get it all off. Right now my hands are all dry,tight and feel abit burnt but nothing to bad.

I also bought some chalk like, and builders line to set the form blocks. That cost me 7euro so with that and the pine at 3.50 euro thats an extra 10.50 on top of the 683euro spent , my total is 673.50. I went out at 12.00 and came home at 7 but i think i was at it for about 6 hours today so my total time spent at this take me upto 50 hours.

I was hoping to at least have it striped by now. Tomorrow ill cut,bead and cove the accent strips and tidy up my transom and do some beveling. I prob wont get to get anymore work done on it untill next week sometime because ive a friends wedding to goto on friday and we all know what these irish wedding are like, ill be dying with a massive hangover which will probably take me a few days to get over, so no work will be getting done on the boat

Total cost so far 673.50 euro
time spent 50 hours

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Good to know that the discrepancy has been fixed.You might find it a good idea not to keep too close an eye on time or money with a boat project........

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by John Meachen
Good to know that the discrepancy has been fixed.You might find it a good idea not to keep too close an eye on time or money with a boat project........
Yeah im well pleased because now i can have teh 12ft boat that i wanted. I was abit disappointed thinking i was having to build it at 10ft but now this is sorted i can move forward and get it finished. Ill take a few pics of it today to show exactly how it is.

As for kepping too close an eye on the time and money, the time isnt to bad but if the misses found out exactly how much its going to be, she wouldnt be pleased because i told her that it should cost me about 400-450euro max,lol. Hope she never comes across this thread.

26. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by mrxireland
Yeah im well pleased because now i can have teh 12ft boat that i wanted. I was abit disappointed thinking i was having to build it at 10ft but now this is sorted i can move forward and get it finished. Ill take a few pics of it today to show exactly how it is.

As for kepping too close an eye on the time and money, the time isnt to bad but if the misses found out exactly how much its going to be, she wouldnt be pleased because i told her that it should cost me about 400-450euro max,lol. Hope she never comes across this thread.
Well, mate - she'll figure out the cost one way or another. That's what wives do...

Can I suggest you get some "waterless hand cleaner" and/or some white vinegar? both are good for cleaning up uncured epoxy resin. Also, one trick when you think you might rip a set of disposable gloves is to put on two pairs at a time. That way when the outer one rips, you still have a layer of protection. Also, you can then re-glove over the first pair and keep working.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
Well, mate - she'll figure out the cost one way or another. That's what wives do...

Can I suggest you get some "waterless hand cleaner" and/or some white vinegar? both are good for cleaning up uncured epoxy resin. Also, one trick when you think you might rip a set of disposable gloves is to put on two pairs at a time. That way when the outer one rips, you still have a layer of protection. Also, you can then re-glove over the first pair and keep working.

I only had one pair of gloves left but thats a good tip for the next time ill be using the epoxy. My hands have been real dry and itchy all day but nothing to worry about thou. As for the wives finding out,lol, ill just leave it to when its finished and tell her how much it was, and that way , shell know it was money well spent(i hope,lol).

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Today i striped,bead and coved my white pine ,beveled my forms and also beveled my transom. I was beveling my pine transom for about a half hour with my small plane and i was getting nowhere with it because the strips take a sharp turn where it meets the transom and i had to take a good chunk off. I decided to get the electric plane out and do the job properly. I remember reading somewhere that your not suppose to use an electric plane for beveling but id be still out there now doing it. I didnt do to bad a job but still tidied it up with the smaller plane.

Youll see in my pics below that my stem isnt the greatest as some of the strips arent in place. When i was bending them around the stem form, some of them popped out of position. I think theyre out about 2mm in places but ill plave this out when i take it off the form in a few days.

29. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Be sure to clean up the inner stem in those places where it will be visible before you start stripping. It's a bugger to clean up later. DAMHIKT.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
Be sure to clean up the inner stem in those places where it will be visible before you start stripping. It's a bugger to clean up later. DAMHIKT.

Im going to take it of the form and plane/sand it till all the epoxy is removed. There's not enough hours in the day because all i want to do now is stay at this boat untill its finished

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I forgot to mention that i counted my strips and ive 150 of them including the white pine accent strips. I run a tape measure along the widest form and it came to 1600mm. The strips are 19mm so i divided the 1600mm by 19mm which left me with 84 so ive worked it out that ill need 84 strips for this build. Infact, ill need even less because this is the widest part i measured so ill prob get away with using about 75 so that leaves me with strips for another build. Can anyone ell me have i worked this out properly because when i was ordering the cedar, i was even told to order more than 14 planks. Thank god i didnt listen to that guy ,lol

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

My Lawton Tender hull has about 96 strips on it.(about 10 feet long to 2 feet long) I used many more than that. You may find many will break or the edges on the coves break off. The more extra strips you have the better. The strips are very easy to work with at the shear line but get much more difficult when you get up to the curves. Your stem looks great.

33. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by mrxireland
I forgot to mention that i counted my strips and ive 150 of them including the white pine accent strips. I run a tape measure along the widest form and it came to 1600mm. The strips are 19mm so i divided the 1600mm by 19mm which left me with 84 so ive worked it out that ill need 84 strips for this build. Infact, ill need even less because this is the widest part i measured so ill prob get away with using about 75 so that leaves me with strips for another build. Can anyone ell me have i worked this out properly because when i was ordering the cedar, i was even told to order more than 14 planks. Thank god i didnt listen to that guy ,lol
Extra strips aren't such a bad thing. You might break a few strips, plus, if some of them have flaws you'll want to avoid using them. The other thing to think about is that you might want to sort the strips for color - having some spares is advantageous for that.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Broken strips make good epoxy stirrers.

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## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Total cost so far 685.50 euro

time spent 58hours

36. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by mrxireland

Total cost so far 685.50 euro

time spent 58hours
SHhhhh! She might hear you...

37. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Today i went out to strip my boat and my new stapler broke and my father took the other one 200miles away with him . I ended up just tidying up my stem planing/sanding it and taped all the forms up.

I also bought some wood glue for the strips and i was suprised at how much it cost. I was expecting to pay around 7euro for 500ml but it was 12 euro when i went to the till. Im wondering now will the 500ml do for the whole job or will i need to get more.

I phoned to order the epoxy today and they imformed me that they have stopped selling it in the 23.8kg so now ill have to buy it in 11.8kg so hopefully ill get away with just using the one. I built a canoe at the end of last year and its longer than this boat by 3ft and i got away with using 2 3kgs so i think the 11.8kg will do.

Total cost so far 685.50 euro

time spent 59hours

38. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
SHhhhh! She might hear you...

LOL, Its ok, i have the computer screen turned around in my direction so she cant see it ,lol, thou i made a mistake with that post.

39. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I think I used about 20oz of titebond II on my puddle duck. According to the online converter that's 591 ml of metric glue

40. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by gstanfield
I think I used about 20oz of titebond II on my puddle duck. According to the online converter that's 591 ml of metric glue
So much for that converter, im only half way through the build and have run out

41. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Yesterday i got a few hours at striping the boat thou i had yet another problem with another new stapler. I have 14mm staples and the new stapler said that it can take 14mm staples but when i got out to do the job, they just wouldnt fit so i had to drive back into town and get my money back and go to another store to get another new one but thankfully this one works properly.

I screwed the sheerline strip to the forms and didnt have no problems with setting it. I was reading gill gillpatricks canoe book before i went out and he advises that i should let the excess glue dry in instead of wiping it off because it is difficult to get off. I took his advice for the inside of the hull but im now sitting wondering should i have because i wiped it of the front and its not as bad as i thought it would be. When i got home i read over my booklet i got with the plans and it says that i had to wipe it all of with a damp cloth. Why does gill say one thing and newfound say another.

I dont have any pics of where im at now but ill try and get some tomorrow. Im well pleased with all the colours of the strips including the white pine as it really stands out. Im in 2 minds to put some white pine in my football strips that ill do when out next.

Im away at the weekend for a football match in glasgow so i wont be able to get at it untill at least tue or wed. I wish this match hadnt been on this date because now im on a wee run of getting this striped and now ive to leave it for a few days

Ill also be buying the epoxy at 11.kg when on my travels and if ive enough left, ill pick up the fiberglass. Im hoping that the epoxy will fit on the car because ill be taking the misses and the kids with me and hopefully theres room, if not, i might put the misses on the bus and stick the seatbelt around the epoxy,lol

Total cost so far 707.50 euro
time spent 66hours

42. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

So much for that converter, im only half way through the build and have run out
Hmm, well I can't say how you are doing, but I didn't waste very much at all. Any drop that squeezes out and runs down the side of your hull is wasted

43. Member
Join Date
Oct 2011
Location
detroit
Posts
83

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Sounds like you have a chore to deal with if you did not wipe. My limited experience ...I suggest wipe all excess glue.

I used Titebond III on my cedar strip project. On the outside I was thourough in wiping off any drips. I built bead up and applied liberal glue to the cove then inverted in into position....I "wasted " a lot of my titbond...something I was comfortable doing because as far as I can tell I had no spots where strips are not fully glued.

On the outside [which is easy to sand anyway] had no glue showing when I started sanding because I had wiped it off as each strip was mounted.

Meanwhile I was sloppy careless lazy [I called myself some less pleasant names after the fact] about crawling underneath or reaching over the side and wiping the glue drips on the inside as I was stripping.

When I flipped the hull I had a large number of literally beaded streaks running down the inside.

It was a major pain to deal with. I tried scraping but did not have the proper mind set required [sharpening, turning the edge of the scraper with a burnisher and then pulling at each drip]. On certain wood projects I have used and enjoyed hand scrapers for fine finishes (in place of sand paper) but did not have patience to use this method to clean the mess I had with excess Titebond on the inside of my hull.

CAUTION I do not recomend a disc sander unless you are vary comfortable and have used one a lot. I used an 8" foam backing pad and 80 grit disc on a Bosch right angle sander grinder. This is a heavy and agressive tool but one I have used a great deal sanding hulls 28 to 43 feet, several teak decks and all sorts of smaller projects. I gained experience with how fast the cedar sands when I used this on the outside of the my strip project. But CAUTION IF you go this route you better have a light and deft touch with the grinder because cedar especially [ and glue and glass] sands very quickly with this sort of tool. You could sand right thru your hull with one of these if you stayed in one place.

44. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by bthomas
Sounds like you have a chore to deal with if you did not wipe. My limited experience ...I suggest wipe all excess glue.

I used Titebond III on my cedar strip project. On the outside I was thourough in wiping off any drips. I built bead up and applied liberal glue to the cove then inverted in into position....I "wasted " a lot of my titbond...something I was comfortable doing because as far as I can tell I had no spots where strips are not fully glued.

On the outside [which is easy to sand anyway] had no glue showing when I started sanding because I had wiped it off as each strip was mounted.

Meanwhile I was sloppy careless lazy [I called myself some less pleasant names after the fact] about crawling underneath or reaching over the side and wiping the glue drips on the inside as I was stripping.

When I flipped the hull I had a large number of literally beaded streaks running down the inside.

It was a major pain to deal with. I tried scraping but did not have the proper mind set required [sharpening, turning the edge of the scraper with a burnisher and then pulling at each drip]. On certain wood projects I have used and enjoyed hand scrapers for fine finishes (in place of sand paper) but did not have patience to use this method to clean the mess I had with excess Titebond on the inside of my hull.

CAUTION I do not recomend a disc sander unless you are vary comfortable and have used one a lot. I used an 8" foam backing pad and 80 grit disc on a Bosch right angle sander grinder. This is a heavy and agressive tool but one I have used a great deal sanding hulls 28 to 43 feet, several teak decks and all sorts of smaller projects. I gained experience with how fast the cedar sands when I used this on the outside of the my strip project. But CAUTION IF you go this route you better have a light and deft touch with the grinder because cedar especially [ and glue and glass] sands very quickly with this sort of tool. You could sand right thru your hull with one of these if you stayed in one place.
First, I've avoided the Titebond III as I have found it little more difficult to wipe than the type I and II adhesives from Titebond.

Some swear by wiping the glue off, some swear at that method. Personally, I wipe it off. Yes, you do smear some of the adhesive over the wood surface, but it will come off as you fair the hull. Drips can be a bigger problem, IMO, as they can cause chunks of the relatively brittle cedar to chip away with the glue if you're scraping it off once cured.

Cabinet scrapers work OK on areas with some glue, but tend to tear the fibers of the soft cedar. Much better for use on hardwood - i.e. trim, and epoxied surfaces that might have the odd drip or imperfection.

I don't recommend that beginners power sand a hull for the reasons you list above. We usually start with a block plane and curved sole spokeshave to work off the "facets" of the strips blending up the hull at about a 45° angle, not lengthwise down the hull. We then move on to a longboard with a relatively coarse grit - usually 80 grit belts. To finish we then go over the hull with an orbital sander with a thick, soft foam contouring pad just to get out visible scratches from the longboard.

45. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by Canoez
First, I've avoided the Titebond III as I have found it little more difficult to wipe than the type I and II adhesives from Titebond.

Some swear by wiping the glue off, some swear at that method. Personally, I wipe it off. Yes, you do smear some of the adhesive over the wood surface, but it will come off as you fair the hull. Drips can be a bigger problem, IMO, as they can cause chunks of the relatively brittle cedar to chip away with the glue if you're scraping it off once cured.

Cabinet scrapers work OK on areas with some glue, but tend to tear the fibers of the soft cedar. Much better for use on hardwood - i.e. trim, and epoxied surfaces that might have the odd drip or imperfection.

I don't recommend that beginners power sand a hull for the reasons you list above. We usually start with a block plane and curved sole spokeshave to work off the "facets" of the strips blending up the hull at about a 45° angle, not lengthwise down the hull. We then move on to a longboard with a relatively coarse grit - usually 80 grit belts. To finish we then go over the hull with an orbital sander with a thick, soft foam contouring pad just to get out visible scratches from the longboard.

Ill be wiping all the glue of from now on. I wish i hadnt of read that in gillpatricks book because common sense tells you to wipe it off. I know now that i have to be careful when getting the glue off so i dont make a mess of it. cheers for this advice

46. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Im a bit worried about the front of the boat here because it looks to me that theres a inward bump happening but i could be wrong as this might be the way its to curve.

At this form below , it is sitting out abit where it curves where my finger is i stopped stapling it because when i was stapling it, i was getting an s shape again and it was going against the naturel curve

47. Member
Join Date
Oct 2011
Location
detroit
Posts
83

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

I am feeling some trepedation /regret for even sharing that I used a 8" disc grinder...somebody somewhere someday will read that , butcher their hull and then curse me... but it really is a quite useful tool for initial fairing but you absolutely must keep it moving and if you do lean ln the edge of the pad at all you best have a purpose/plan in mind...otherwise best stay off the edge and keep the pad level and constantly moving.

Much better/safer advice in Canoez post.

REGARDS the first picture ["inward bend"] that shot looks like it might be something a stealer strip would remedy. But the later pictures don't appear that a stealer strip is needed at all.

Do some Goggle searches on "stealer strips"...these are wedge pieces and some hulls may look better by inserting one then another full strip or maybe several then another wedge and so on as needed so the general appearence to the eye is that the planking is "straight". If you need one or more and ignore this and just carry on the hull will be structually sound but you may find the twist will keep increasing.

BTW one of the web documented builds I visited introduced me to "hanging a large heavy C clamp or bar clamp" on a strip when twist is needed...a reall heavy clamp and gravity will make the strip want to twist (depending on how you orient the clamp). I used this trick a lot when I was transitioning into the "skeg sort of" turn of the bilge section of my transom...I would leave the strip long by a foot or more then hang a large C clamp on the end. [I really needed this trick at my stern...I wasn't stapling just using masking tape and the clamp trick was necessary].

48. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Originally Posted by bthomas
I am feeling some trepedation /regret for even sharing that I used a 8" disc grinder...somebody somewhere someday will read that , butcher their hull and then curse me... but it really is a quite useful tool for initial fairing but you absolutely must keep it moving and if you do lean ln the edge of the pad at all you best have a purpose/plan in mind...otherwise best stay off the edge and keep the pad level and constantly moving.

Much better/safer advice in Canoez post.

REGARDS the first picture ["inward bend"] that shot looks like it might be something a stealer strip would remedy. But the later pictures don't appear that a stealer strip is needed at all.

Do some Goggle searches on "stealer strips"...these are wedge pieces and some hulls may look better by inserting one then another full strip or maybe several then another wedge and so on as needed so the general appearence to the eye is that the planking is "straight". If you need one or more and ignore this and just carry on the hull will be structually sound but you may find the twist will keep increasing.

BTW one of the web documented builds I visited introduced me to "hanging a large heavy C clamp or bar clamp" on a strip when twist is needed...a reall heavy clamp and gravity will make the strip want to twist (depending on how you orient the clamp). I used this trick a lot when I was transitioning into the "skeg sort of" turn of the bilge section of my transom...I would leave the strip long by a foot or more then hang a large C clamp on the end. [I really needed this trick at my stern...I wasn't stapling just using masking tape and the clamp trick was necessary].

I sent newfound a msg with some pics so he can have a look at them before i move on. I wont be working at the boat untill wed so that gives them plenty time to reply. Im hoping that its just a bad camera angle. TO be honest, even thou the form is out a slight touch, i didnt really notice what i mention about with teh picture untill i posted it here so it might just be a bad camera shot because it all looked ok to me apart from the space between the form 1.5 and the last few strips

49. Senior Member
Join Date
Jul 2011
Posts
273

## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

Ive been looking about the internet and wanting to put something like this on the back of my transom thou this one is to small. Im wondering would any of you know where i could get my hands on a biiger one, say about 10 inch diameter. I would also like to know would the epoxy still stick to this sticker or would i have to put something else over it so the epoxy takes to it

http://www.zazzle.co.uk/leaping_salm...30082586134824

50. ## Re: My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

That does look odd up front, but it may be camera angle. Otherwise it's looking really nice!!

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