My lawton tender thread. Plans arrived today

[mrxireland]

Today i was out on my own and i cut and shaped the rest of my forms apart from the transom and stem form. I was out for 4 hours so that takes me upto 38hours.

Im abit held back now because i need the part i need to fix my cicular saw comes so i can make my stem up but cant cut the ash into strips untill the part arrives. I hope its the proper part because if its not, ill have to order another art that it might be ad thats going to set me back even longer.

I also was naive and went ahead and bought that fiberglass that was going cheap. I wetted some of it out and even thou it looks and holds well, it doesnt wet out like the normal stuff i need to use. It actuly takes ages for the epoxy to soak through the cloth. I gave a guy i met on here a piece so he could also try out himself because i was telling him good of a price it was going for ,and he's came back and said the same about it not wetting out great so ill have to put it aside and prob use it on another job ill do in the future. The price of the stuff was £22 for 22 meters so it aint really that much im going to a lose.



Total time spent at it - 38 hours

[mrxireland]

Ive just had a thought about what way im going to strip this boat. Ive read that its best to have the bead end up but ive noticed on youtube some guy doing this and it looks alot more messy with the glue. Ive also noticed that in gill gillpatricks book, he doesnt use this method as he has the cove end up. Im now thinking is it something to do with him using staples and he can get away with having the cove end up and be quicker because he isnt using straps which will put force on the cove and break the part of the strip

[Sailor]

There's two schools of thought on the bead up cove up debate. Some like it one way others like it the other way. I did my canoe cove up. I may try bead up if I ever strip another canoe. Others (third school I forgot to mention) just skip the bead and cove and simply run a block plane to bevel the plank so there's no cove or bead, just planks that are beveled as they go on. Apparently it doesn't take long to develop the skill to work the rolling bevel into the plank as needed. If you're good at it, I can see that you'd save all the time spent running strips through the router table. Twice.

[Tim Marchetti]

just skip the bead and cove and simply run a block plane to bevel the plank so there's no cove or bead, just planks that are beveled as they go on. Apparently it doesn't take long to develop the skill to work the rolling bevel into the plank as needed. If you're good at it, I can see that you'd save all the time spent running strips through the router table. Twice.[/QUOTE]
You also use much less material. You loose 15-20percent off the table saw and then another 17percent with the bead and cove.

[mrxireland]

I can see that would be a nice wee cost save , i might try it if i ever build another one. Ill have to do abit more reading to see what method will suit me best.


Ive been reading my bookelet and list of materials and theres a part that i just cant get my head around. I dont know if ive mentioned it already in this thread but its this ineer keel. I cant get my head around why i need an iner keel (not that i know that much about boats anyway) but it doesnt even say what measurements the inner keel is suppose to be. On the list of materials, it says that the outter keel should be 7/8 x 7/8 @ 12ft but nothing about teh inner keel.

Ive been looking at some clips on youtube and some reading online and cant really find much on inners keels, so im now wondering can i just follow my strips till they meet eachother instead of working till an inner keel like ive seen on other builds, that way i can just add the outer keel to my strips with epoxy.

I know ive been told to follow the plans by the book but there is a few things thats left out like this i mention. For the amatuer builder, it should have abit more info on this inner keel because im just baffled on what to do now.

[mrxireland]

I'm guessing the last station is two pieces that are perpendicular to the stem form. That is, half of the form is on one side of the stem form and half of the form is on the other side of the stem form. If you use a different size stem, the half forms will need to be sized accordingly.

This is what it is, im suppose to liek you mention and attach them to teh side of the stem form. When i have the forms attached to my strongback, ill take a few pics to show .

[Tim Marchetti]

I can see that would be a nice wee cost save , i might try it if i ever build another one. Ill have to do abit more reading to see what method will suit me best.


Ive been reading my bookelet and list of materials and theres a part that i just cant get my head around. I dont know if ive mentioned it already in this thread but its this ineer keel. I cant get my head around why i need an iner keel (not that i know that much about boats anyway) but it doesnt even say what measurements the inner keel is suppose to be. On the list of materials, it says that the outter keel should be 7/8 x 7/8 @ 12ft but nothing about teh inner keel.

Ive been looking at some clips on youtube and some reading online and cant really find much on inners keels, so im now wondering can i just follow my strips till they meet eachother instead of working till an inner keel like ive seen on other builds, that way i can just add the outer keel to my strips with epoxy.

I know ive been told to follow the plans by the book but there is a few things thats left out like this i mention. For the amatuer builder, it should have abit more info on this inner keel because im just baffled on what to do now.

Do the plans show an inner keel without specs? Are the station forms notched for an inner keel? If so, you can get the dimensions off the forms

[mrxireland]

Do the plans show an inner keel without specs? Are the station forms notched for an inner keel? If so, you can get the dimensions off the forms

The stations arent notched for an inner keel and it doesnt show it on the plans either. Would it not be easier for me to just strip it all then just attach an outer keel. I can get my head around that because ive seen it done on youtube but i dont see the point in putting an inner keel which is prob going to be the same thickness as the strips then having to attach an outer keel to this. I think my best approach would be just like what ive said above to strip the whole boat then attach an outer keel. I think by doing this inner keel, its going to make things difficult because i just dont understand the need for it.

[Tim Marchetti]

The stations arent notched for an inner keel and it doesnt show it on the plans either. Would it not be easier for me to just strip it all then just attach an outer keel. I can get my head around that because ive seen it done on youtube but i dont see the point in putting an inner keel which is prob going to be the same thickness as the strips then having to attach an outer keel to this. I think my best approach would be just like what ive said above to strip the whole boat then attach an outer keel. I think by doing this inner keel, its going to make things difficult because i just dont understand the need for it.

if the plans don't call for an inner keel then you don't need one. just strip your hull and add the outer keel after it's glassed.

[mrxireland]

if the plans don't call for an inner keel then you don't need one. just strip your hull and add the outer keel after it's glassed.

Sorry i made a mistake, it does say in the booklet i got with the plans that theres an inner keel, it even shows a picture of an inner keel but i still cant see why theres a need for it. Ill try and get the pics uploaded and the info it says with it.

[mrxireland]

Pics arent that great because i used a camera to take them instead of scaning them onto the computer but i think theyre good enough to see what im talking about.



Here is a picture of the inner keel but i honestly dont see any need for it



















There theres this picture that totaly throws me off because theres no inner keel here.

[Tim Marchetti]

Your booklet is a general strip building guide not speific to your boat. It covers a wide range of boats that they sell plans for. The caption under the picture says it's for the rangeley boat. The other picture without a keel looks like a canoe.So if there is no inner keel in the plans or on the materials list than you don't need it.

[mrxireland]

Yes i dont understand this but i recieved 2 booklets with these plans and in the lawton tender booklet, it mentions an inner keel. Heres a few pics of what it says in the booklet. Is these any real need for the inner keel tim. Im just going to attach the strips to the inner stem, then attach the outer stem to this and then next ill put the outer keel onto the strips, i think ill just stick to what i know because i dont want to mess this up. If the guy who sold the plans put the proper details in about the inner keel then i would have followed it to the detail. Ill have to PM him with some negative feedback so he can add more detail for guys like myself. I still cant get my head around why theres a need for an inner keel, have you came across this with other small boats tim, if so, can you tell me why the need for it.

[Tim Marchetti]

now I'm confused. you should contact newfound woodworks

[mrxireland]

Im decided to use white or red deal timber for my transom. I can get 4x4ft x 1inch (or maybe 1.5inch) for 50 euro. Ill have a word with the guy tomorrow and see if he'll sell me me it in a 4x2 length for half the price because thats all i need. These sheets come in 8x4 and they cut in half for anyone who needs a 4x4 size but will they cut it even smaller, i dont know thou ill find out tomorrow when i ask.

Ive been searching online for some 6oz cloth and theyre all coming out at about £5-6 a sq mtr but ive came across a site that sells the cloth at 135g per sq m for £3 or 200g per sq mtr for £3.35. The 135g works out at 4.8oz and the 200g works out at 7.1 oz. I think ill go with the 7oz on the outside and the 4.8oz on the inner side. Do you think i could get away with using the 4.8oz on the outside as well, if i remember correctly, i seen a comment on a thread i made before on here where a guy was saying he uses 4oz cloth on the outside of his boats and he hasnt noticed any difference.


Thanks again for poping into my thread tim

[mrxireland]

now I'm confused. you should contact newfound woodworks

lol, ive been confused ever since ive had these plans,lol.

Before i bought the plans, newfound were we'll happy to reply to my mail but as soon as i got my plans, they stopped. Its not as if i was mailing them all the time thou, i sent 2 e-mails wanting a few answers about the transom and the inner keel and they never returned with any answers.

[davebrown]

Looks to me like a general build pamphlet on stripping was included with specifics about the Lawton. I don't find that troubling--if I am right. I think you're making some good progress. I mentioned my build simply to point out that building boats is a tough process of constant challenge, invention, and overcoming of obstacles. Most trees I've run across don't want to turn themselves into a boat. I mostly agree with the prior posts about it being cheaper to go buy a boat than build one. True, except maybe we should compare apples to apples: it is cheaper to build a stripped Lawton tender than to buy one. It is not cheaper to go buy a beat up old aluminum skiff (or god forbid, that horrible eyesore, B. Whaler). So I think you're doing pretty well. Press on!

[Tim Marchetti]

Im decided to use white or red deal timber for my transom. I can get 4x4ft x 1inch (or maybe 1.5inch) for 50 euro. Ill have a word with the guy tomorrow and see if he'll sell me me it in a 4x2 length for half the price because thats all i need. These sheets come in 8x4 and they cut in half for anyone who needs a 4x4 size but will they cut it even smaller, i dont know thou ill find out tomorrow when i ask.

Ive been searching online for some 6oz cloth and theyre all coming out at about £5-6 a sq mtr but ive came across a site that sells the cloth at 135g per sq m for £3 or 200g per sq mtr for £3.35. The 135g works out at 4.8oz and the 200g works out at 7.1 oz. I think ill go with the 7oz on the outside and the 4.8oz on the inner side. Do you think i could get away with using the 4.8oz on the outside as well, if i remember correctly, i seen a comment on a thread i made before on here where a guy was saying he uses 4oz cloth on the outside of his boats and he hasnt noticed any difference.


Thanks again for poping into my thread tim

Go with 7oz inside and out.

[samdog]

I am building the same boat from the same plans. I made an inner keel (kingstrip) out of red cedar. 5/16"X 1". The inner keel was very easy to make. It will make it eaiser to mount the keel and skeg later on. My fiberglass supplies cost more than the wood.I am using 6oz cloth inside and out and West System epoxy and hardener. I contacted Newfound by telephone a few times and they were very helpful.

[mrxireland]

I am building the same boat from the same plans. I made an inner keel (kingstrip) out of red cedar. 5/16"X 1". The inner keel was very easy to make. It will make it eaiser to mount the keel and skeg later on. My fiberglass supplies cost more than the wood.I am using 6oz cloth inside and out and West System epoxy and hardener. I contacted Newfound by telephone a few times and they were very helpful.

Samdog, it would be great if you could post some pictures in here of your build so i can view what im suppose to do. While i was out today ive noticed that my forms have a wee notch at the top where i think the inner keel has to go. I was going to round them off so that the cedar bends around them instead of taking a sharpe 90degre angle at the very top. Look back on my pics and youll see what i mean. I have ash there that i can use for an inner keel but i'd need to see how its done before i can move forward with this build now. Are you building yours at 10ft or have you added any length onto it.

[mrxireland]

I was at the builders yard today and had a look at the red deal sheet they have for sale and they guy behind the desk has told me that i can get a 4x2 ft for 25euro but after i had a look at it, i wasnt to sure it would do because its only 3/4inch thick and it bends abit if i put force on it. Im wonder will it still be ok to use because im thinking when i fiberglass and epoxy it, it wil strengthen up more but i thought id post here just incase its not suitable.Another option is, I have some finished red deal door frame in the shed at 5.5x1.5inch and im now thinking of cutting this up and piecing together with epoxy but thought id post my thoughts here to hear your views on it before i make my next move.


I made a mistake here below in teh pics but nothing to bad. When i 1st marked out my transom and stem form, i made them to the size of the plans but i forgot im making the boat an extra 2 ft longer but i realised this after i drew my lines onto the mdf. I had to add another 3.4inch onto my stem form so i can get that extra spacing between that form and the next. I moved the line but then it overlapped my transom thou after some thought, i just decided to cut out the transom form first because TBH, it doesnt really matter if i notched the stem form at that line. Just as well i noticed this because i was ready to redraw them again but thankfully i got away with making this mistake. If it had of been any other form then id have been screwed and would have had to redraw them.










I also had a few wee helpers with me today










And heres me cutting out the transom.

[Sailor]

I would avoid ash for the inner keel unless she's a trailer sailed boat. If she'll have any water standing in her bottom for any length of time, ash will likely rot. It will almost certainly turn black. Save your ash for gunnls, tiller etc.

[mrxireland]

The ash is going to be covered in fiberglass and epoxy like the rest of the boat. I cant see it ever getting wet and moulding up like you say but i could be wrong because im just a newbie in this department.

[Canoez]

The ash is going to be covered in fiberglass and epoxy like the rest of the boat. I cant see it ever getting wet and moulding up like you say but i could be wrong because im just a newbie in this department.

With the moisture and staining problems you're seeing on the Cedar from atmospheric conditions, you might have problems before you get to the glassing step. It _IS_ a green and mossy island...

[mrxireland]

With the moisture and staining problems you're seeing on the Cedar from atmospheric conditions, you might have problems before you get to the glassing step. It _IS_ a green and mossy island...

Yeah you could say that about here and esp for the west of the country because its mostly boggy here . I think ill be ok thou, im going to use the open shed now instead. Theres been some timber thats been in there all winter and it looks ok to me, just hope the birds dont crap all over it on me because ive noticed a few nests in there.


Ill leave buying the timber for the transom untill i get some advice on here on what to do, i was thinking of just going and buying the 3/4 red deal and just go ahead and fiberglass it but i think ill just hold off untill the last moment

[mrxireland]

Heres my strong back set up, all i need to do now is attach some 4x2 i have then im ready to put the forms up. Will do this in the next few days.

[mrxireland]

Im looking to know how important it is for the strong back to be perfectly level. Mines is out about 2mm in places but ive tried most things and i cant seem to get it all perfect. Its because the strong back has a wee bump here and there but nothing to major.In my opinion, I think 2mm isnt going to effect the boat that much but id like to hear your thoughts on this. I forgot to take a few pics of it but will do the next time im out there

[mrxireland]

Here below is a 5ft 10x1.5inch pine that i got for 13euro. Here below i cut it in 2 and sanded and roughed up with jigsaw so when i join it with epoxy, it gets a good bond. I only had one clamp for teh job and while i was testing it out without the epoxy it just didnt look like it was closing up. I think ill have to get another clamp or 2 so i can close it up properly. I was down in town earlier and all i could find was clamps for 15euro,im in 2 minds to buy one or not and im wondering is there anything i can do instead.


I also picked up a roll of tape for my forms at 1.50 euro

Total cost so far 683 euro
time spent 39 hours

[Larks]

Here below is a 5ft 10x1.5inch pine that i got for 13euro. Here below i cut it in 2 and sanded and roughed up with jigsaw so when i join it with epoxy, it gets a good bond. I only had one clamp for teh job and while i was testing it out without the epoxy it just didnt look like it was closing up. I think ill have to get another clamp or 2 so i can close it up properly. I was down in town earlier and all i could find was clamps for 15euro,im in 2 minds to buy one or not and im wondering is there anything i can do instead.


I also picked up a roll of tape for my forms at 1.50 euro

Total cost so far 683 euro
time spent 39 hours

I'd suggest go to the expense of a few more clamps as they will prove their worth throughout the build.

Alternatively, if you have a work bench, how about screwing down a straight edge or blocks for one edge to rest up against and then three or four blocks an inch or so from the opposite edge and cut a few wooden wedges to knock between the blocks and your panel to close it up.

Lay plastic on your bench and anywhere that the epoxy may make a mess and then screw (or clamp) down a couple of lenths of timber over the top of the whole lot to hold it down flat.

[MoMan]

I was down in town earlier and all i could find was clamps for 15euro,im in 2 minds to buy one or not and im wondering is there anything i can do instead.

Since you are trying hard to save money, you might make a go at building some of your own clamps. A quick Google search returns a bunch of instructive sites.

[mrxireland]

I found these while i was looking for info on an inner keel and was wondering whats your thoughts on it. Youll see in previous posts on hear about the inner keel and that i was in 2 minds not to use on or not but if you have a look at my forms youll see that they are meant for an inner keel. Im still clueless on what to do with this inner keel. It looks to me in them pics below that its just one keel where they work upto it with the cedar strip but im also wondering do they just glue the strip to the keel and would you have to fiberglass over it.

Is there anyone on here thats built a different cedar boat yet added a keel this way.

[mrxireland]

Since you are trying hard to save money, you might make a go at building some of your own clamps. A quick Google search returns a bunch of instructive sites.

[/RIGHT]

#
Ive some 4x3s that i have under my strong back that might just do that job but im still waiting on this part coming for my cicular saw. Ill have a try and see what i can come up with.

[mrxireland]

More pics of an inner keel

[mrxireland]

After hours and hours looking on the net to see if i could find someone whos built a cedar strip baot with an inner keel i then come across a guy on this forum and teh funny part about it is , i even commented on his thread,lol. Ive posted in his thread and hopefully he will come along and talk me through the process. Heres a few pics of his inner keel below , its something like one of the pictures above but the (inner)keel is alot thicker above.

[Larks]

If nothing else, it looks like it makes that centre join much easier and neater than trying to bring the strip planking together to itself down the centre line. I can't imagine the headaches you'd have trying to get them to line up nicely together otherwise.

[Sailor]

Saw your information request in the rangely thread. I build my redbird stapleless. It takes longer. My dad and brother built theirs with staples. I figure if you put in a long day you could probably plank up a whole canoe in a day if you're stapling everything. Took me weeks. I would put up 2 or3 planks on one side, let them sit overnight, then 2 or 3 more on the other side the next day. Took a while. If you're in it for speed, use staples. I think for looks, go without them. You'll have to get creative with the clamping and other jigs to do it though. As for glue, yellow carpenter's glue, Lepages or something like that. I used it in mine. Dad used a powdered waterproof mix it up yourself type of glue that's no longer made. The boat's wrapped in fiberglass and epoxy, will never see water (if you treat her properly) and it's cheaper to use. Go with regular yellow carpenter's glue. No mixing, no worries about short potlife compared to epoxy. Take a look at my redbird thread (Redbird Progress) and you'll see answers to alot of your questions. I'll be updating it soon as I've made a bit more progress.

[bthomas]

Hi,

THE BAD : I can't give much insight as to the structure/necessitty of the inner keel in your situation [I just do not have enough experience to comment what is needed in your design].

On my own effort I was building a bit blindly on my Rangeley because I was referencing the Gardner Book plans for the shape but all the building details Gardener provides are for traditonal lapstrake. Since I was intrepreting the design in cedar strip I was left to best guess "how to".

Regards my center strip its not really an inner keel , I just winged its shape after having applied strips up the hull sides it was time to sort out how to transition to the bottom. The shape I used for a center strip made good use of the wood on hand left over after the 2 x 4 dimensional lumber had been ripped into the cove and bead strips. The center strip shape was a gentle taper to the inner stem at the front of the boat and similarly a taper along each station and the transom at the rear.

On my build it was not appreciably thicker ..made it a bit thicker (approx .300" or so IFIR) as this was the thickness I had on hand.

To be clear I was just swagging the whole affair and it is an untested [over time] solution.

THE GOOD: After getting planked up I discovered a very good reference..."Woodstrip Rowing Craft-how to build step by step" by Susan Van Leuven. In this book she builds two designs...one with just strips in keel area (this is the Newfoundland Rangeley) and one wth a thicker inner keel, The design with the thicker inner keel is a boat which she was converting from a more traditonal construction plan to cedar strip. There are pictures and detailed text on EVERYTHING in this book. ASIR she had some discsussion on how she arrived at the need for a thicker inner keel on the conversion hull.

Recomend this book highly...but regards getting your structure sorted out if you can't get the detail you need from plan then I would definitely try to contact Newfoundland [which i beleive I understand sold you the plan].

In the course of my build I was most confused trying to figure out what would be a reasonable and proper glass cloth weight and lay up plan...and working as I was converting from one build technique to another i was left guessing.

...After a bit of reading around I gained an understanding that the cedar strips are primarly to keep the two glass skins [inner and outer] separated and accepted that the glass itself would be a critical structual component in my build.

[for me I think of corrugated box material...the paper skins gain a lot of their strength from the paper that forms the corrugation core of the panel....in a cedar strip the core is the cedar and the glass is the skin on both sides but its important to keep the skins separated and prudent to use sufficient glass w/o excess expoxy to gain a strong panel]

Starting out I was breifly tempted to "build light"regards cloth and number of layers....but after reading about a number of canoe failures I quickly changed my direction to insure I was building with adequate and sufficient cloth both on weight and number of layers.

CONCLUSION: Really recomend

1. follow your plans (even if that means calling the folks hat sold the plans to get a full and complete understanding)
2. get as many books and opinions as you can ....I can endorse the referenced book...she goes into detail on everything

BTW although I had my hull stripped up when I got it the book was nice to have when it came time to sort out the details ...she has lots of good ideas explained and pictures on interior pieces thwarts breasthook quarterknees etc

[mrxireland]

Ive had a reply from lawton and im abit more clued up on what ive to do next. Hes sent me a few picture of an inner keel so now im going to go ahead. Im going to use some ash that i have there for this job. I just couldnt get my head around why i needed an inner keel or even how it was attached to the strips. I had it in my head that the bottom of the hull would have been weakend somehow but i guess thats just me not really known what im talking about,lol. Im happy now that thats cleared up and i can move forward.

I was in contact with the shop that is selling the spare part for my circular saw and theyve informed me that i wont be receiving it untill after the 24th as its on backorder. Really disapointed with this because i have a lot of free time this week and next and i wont be able to get any work done on it.

Heres a few pics that lawton sent me of an inner keel of a rangeley and lawton.

[Larks]

I don't know where you are in relation to a decent hardware store, but you'll probably find a cheap as chips Chinese power saw for sale at much the same price as the part for your skillsaw. While waiting for my DeWalt drill to be repaired I bought a $30.00 Chinese drill to keep going with and it did the job just fine.

[bthomas]

BTW I chose cedar strip because I was/amintimidated by the mysteries of traditional lapstrake planking methods. and

Ithought that cedar strips would be less demanding of close fits than tradtionallapstrake planks. The actual application of cedar strips even with masking tape [no staples] iseasy. ....but having built my first stripper I am awed by the guys that buildthis way again and again...my resolution is that my next effort will put asidethe glass covering and probably be glued Lapstrake plywood technique

...will be interesting to hear your sentiments after you complete the fiberglass work that lies ahead...even the glassing is not overly difficult just messy and for me is not as enjoyable as the wood work...since I see you intend to make a canoe once the tender is complete I am interested in how you feel about cedar strips once the glassing is done.

[mrxireland]

I don't know where you are in relation to a decent hardware store, but you'll probably find a cheap as chips Chinese power saw for sale at much the same price as the part for your skillsaw. While waiting for my DeWalt drill to be repaired I bought a $30.00 Chinese drill to keep going with and it did the job just fine.

The part i bought for my saw was a bearing flange and it only cost £12 including postage. Ive been hoping to keep the cost of this build to as little as possible but i keep getting these unexpected costs . As for finding somewhere that sells cheap tools, i live in the rep of ireland where even the cheap tools are expensive,lol, this country has been destroyed in the last 10-15 years with prices of everything going through the roof but thats the irish for you, the people in goverment couldnt run the length of a mile properly never mind an economy

Theres a place that hires tools close by , i think ill pop in there when im in town and see if they have a table saw i can hire for half day, ill prob get this for about 25euro if they dont have any, il see if theres anyone who has one who i can get a lend of thou anyone i know who had any tools had to sell them to get because they havent been working in years because of the state the country is in.

[mrxireland]

BTW I chose cedar strip because I was/amintimidated by the mysteries of traditional lapstrake planking methods. and

Ithought that cedar strips would be less demanding of close fits than tradtionallapstrake planks. The actual application of cedar strips even with masking tape [no staples] iseasy. ....but having built my first stripper I am awed by the guys that buildthis way again and again...my resolution is that my next effort will put asidethe glass covering and probably be glued Lapstrake plywood technique

...will be interesting to hear your sentiments after you complete the fiberglass work that lies ahead...even the glassing is not overly difficult just messy and for me is not as enjoyable as the wood work...since I see you intend to make a canoe once the tender is complete I am interested in how you feel about cedar strips once the glassing is done.

I have some experience using the epoxy/fiberglass as i built a plywood stich and glue canoe last summer and quite enjoy building it even thou i run into a few problems with that as well,lol, below is a few pics of it. It looked great back then but i left it in my dampish shed all winter without varnishing the pine gunnels and they ended up with mould through the wood so now ill have to paint over it

As for hearing what ive to say about the cedar strips, i cant wait to the day that its finished so i can step back and think back to what ive just built. I too am abit intimidated with the lapstrake method but i say ill have a crack at building one somewhere in the near future. If and when you do build yours , send me on a linkso i can follow your thread

[mrxireland]

Saw your information request in the rangely thread. I build my redbird stapleless. It takes longer. My dad and brother built theirs with staples. I figure if you put in a long day you could probably plank up a whole canoe in a day if you're stapling everything. Took me weeks. I would put up 2 or3 planks on one side, let them sit overnight, then 2 or 3 more on the other side the next day. Took a while. If you're in it for speed, use staples. I think for looks, go without them. You'll have to get creative with the clamping and other jigs to do it though. As for glue, yellow carpenter's glue, Lepages or something like that. I used it in mine. Dad used a powdered waterproof mix it up yourself type of glue that's no longer made. The boat's wrapped in fiberglass and epoxy, will never see water (if you treat her properly) and it's cheaper to use. Go with regular yellow carpenter's glue. No mixing, no worries about short potlife compared to epoxy. Take a look at my redbird thread (Redbird Progress) and you'll see answers to alot of your questions. I'll be updating it soon as I've made a bit more progress.

TBH, i dont really mind the holes that the staples leave, we'll for this build anyhow because im busting to get it finished intime before the summer starts here. If what you say is true about getting it finished in 1 day then ill be well pleased with this and i have the extra benifit of my uncle helping me so he'll be on 1 side and il be on the other. Is that carpenters glue esp for boats or is that just a term used for any type carpenters glue. Ill have to look into this because i was just going to use ordinary wood glue.

[mrxireland]

I came across this below while browsing the internet and want to know your thoughts on it. Would these type of oars be ok for the type of boat im building. Below is also a link to the timber yard where ill be getting the timber to make my oars but since they dont sell spruce, i dont know what other type i should use.


http://www.mcgregorhardwood.com/timber/all.php



These plans are provided free for all to use and distribute and are not for sale.
They were created as my thanks to Jacques Mertens of Bateau.com and
all builders who take the time to post and help others in the Bateau forums.

---

[Sailor]

Ordinary carpenter's glue. Nothing fancy or special about it. I don't know if you'll be able to plank your boat up in a day because a canoe is smaller. I think there's about 66 planks on the canoe I built. The ones making up the sheer at either stem is not included in that count. Once you have them started you just keep stapling until they're all in place. This presumes that you have the inner stems already shaped. A spokeshave and a batten will tell you how to shape the inner stem ahead of time. Or you could do it piecemeal as you plank. You won't get her planked in a day if you're doing the stem as you go though.

[mrxireland]

I managed to get a table saw for a few days and was out today cutting my gun whales,inner keel and the stem piece. While i was there i also pieced together my 2 pieces of pine im uing for my transome by using 2 small clamps i have. I screwed some battens onto the scarp pieces of the pine so i could get away with using the smaller clamps.

I also screwed some scrap timber i had lying in the shed to it as you can see below. When i done this , it opened the back of the timber so i had to put the larger clamp there so i could close up the gap. I used epoxy for to seal it and i was going to leave in the shed but changed my mind and decided to take it home after i heard on the radio that its going to be -1 tonight and i know epoxy doesnt do to well in cold environments so better to take it home and let it bond properly.

Im also thinking of adding 1 or 2 accent strips on each side made from ash or and possibly adding a few on the bottom of the hull. HAs anyone any pictures of any boats,canoes with 2 accent strips and some on the hull so i can get a good look at them before i start striping


All ive to do now is attach my forms to the strongback, bend my stem pieces into place then im good to go for striping. Cant wait for this stage because then ill see it all taking shape but i dare say ill run into another wee prob here because it seems that every stage i get to, something arises which isnt in the plan,lol.




Total cost so far 683 euro
time spent 44 hours

[mrxireland]

Can anyone tell me how much kg of epoxy i need if im to use 3.5 gallons. It says in teh plans that i need 3.5 gallons but here in ireland and the uk they sell it in kgs. I honestly dont know how to work this out.

Ive been looking at getting this what i have on the link.http://www.mbfg.co.uk/user/products/...kg_500x500.jpg , http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/s...oxy-resin.html .Im wondering will the 11.8kg be enough or will i have to go for the larger product at 23.6kg.

[Larks]

Can anyone tell me how much kg of epoxy i need if im to use 3.5 gallons. It says in teh plans that i need 3.5 gallons but here in ireland and the uk they sell it in kgs. I honestly dont know how to work this out.

Ive been looking at getting this what i have on the link.http://www.mbfg.co.uk/user/products/...kg_500x500.jpg , http://www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/s...oxy-resin.html .Im wondering will the 11.8kg be enough or will i have to go for the larger product at 23.6kg.

A quick google search will tell you that 1 gallon weighs around 8 to 9 lb (depending which site you look at) so 3.65kg to 4kg per gallon.

[mrxireland]

A quick google search will tell you that 1 gallon weighs around 8 to 9 lb (depending which site you look at) so 3.65kg to 4kg per gallon.

I just double checked my list of materials and its 3gallons that i need, not the 3.5 i previously mentioned . I think ill get away with ordering the 11.8kg because ive about 1 pint of epoxy left over from my canoe build and ill use this for the stems and joining the transom together. I hope im not scraping the epoxy tin at the end of the build because ill prob have to buy another 3kg at £50 and if this is what happens then i should have bought the 23kg to start of with and been left with 10kg more epoxy for an extra £40. Im now sitting here wondering will i just go ahead and buy the 23.6kg incase i do run out with buying the 11.8kg.

It also says in the list of materials that i need 18 yrds peel ply and 14 yrds of 6oz fiberglass cloth. Ive just googled peel ply and seen a video on youtube and it looks to me that its a type of fiberglass but anywhere else ive seen a cedar strip build ive only seen fiberglass get used. Im thinking will i just go ahead and use the fiberglass on its on. My boat will be 12ft long and im near sure ill get away with using 5mtrs of 1mx1.5m cloth thou ill have to double check my forms. If i can get away with using this, ill buy 10mtrs of cloth at £110( without P&P) instead of buying 20mtrs of the 1mx1m which will set me back £130(without P&P).

[mrxireland]

I was on ebay looking at some oar locks and these 2 look ok to me but what one would you suggest i get or does it even matter. Im thinking the locks in the 1st link because it looks alot easier to attach to the boat but id like to hear your views on it incase theres something i need to know when buying these. I was expecting to pay more for these so im well pleased with the price.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Side-Mount...item563c4c4aad

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clamp-Oar-...item5636b20056