Teak veneer on original Teak deck. Problem....?

[Atlantis of Rhu]

Hi All,

This is my first post on any forum.

My partner and I have recently purchased a new yacht (new to us that is) she is designed by Laurent Giles 1945 cutter rigged sloop. She is beautiful and we are both very pleased with her. She is a long term project for us and once complete we intend on living on her and travelling great distances. She is still at the boat yard of the nice chap we bought her from and he is completing the hull before we get her delivered home. She is presently in a saw mill, sheltered from the rain.

I am more than a little concerned about the deck, it comprises of a teak veneer on the original teak deck. The teak veneer is approximately 3/8" thick and is glued and stapled to the original deck, approximately 1"thick. Obviously both the original deck and the veneer run in the same direction. I find it hard to believe that the veneer will remain stable with the deck beneath expanding and contracting in the same direction. The work was carried out professionally by a boatyard previous to the yard she is at now.

The original deck below must have been in poor condition for them to consider laying a veneer over the top and in the fore peak it is visible that the original deck has been cut away and replaced with plywood as a base for the new veneer.

Where we have lifted the veneer (to fit a proper covering board and to access the Carlin), we found it impossible to lift the veneer in one piece, it's very well glued. However, where shrinkage has occurred the (presumed Sikaflex) joints have started to open in places. It may also be worth mentioning that the glue between the deck and veneer is not flexible.

I'm thinking this arrangement will always be problematic, with leaking and trapped moisture between the original deck and the veneer so I am considering lifting the veneer and laying a new deck over the top after making sure the original is stable and free from rot (the underside of the deck appears to be in sound condition).

I would really appreciate any advice offered as to how I should approach laying a new deck over the original. Please don't laugh, (as my dad did) but I had an idea that I could veneer across the original deck with teak (or much cheaper, and I have a large quantity of it, English Oak) and then to lay the new deck, again a veneer as was. Both new veneers would be mechanically fixed and glued. Crazy idea? Would expansion be a problem? I'm thinking the veneer laid across the grain of the original deck would stabilise the whole construction, almost like constructing my own plywood! My father thinks I should strip the veneer and sheath with fibreglass but my partner and I really do not want to do that.

I hope I have explained it all clearly, sorry for the essay!

Adam.

[Don Kurylko]

Is the deck leaking or showing any other signs of deterioration? Do the veneers overlap the seams in the old decking or just lie on top of the old strakes in line with the seams? Can you contact the people who laid the veneers to get an idea of why they chose that course of action?

[Atlantis of Rhu]

Hi Don

There are no obvious signs of old deck leaks but the boat has been in a barn for about seven years. The veneer is wider than the original strakes so some joints will be inline and some staggered, mainly staggered I should think! The work was done well over 10 years ago and on the other side of the country so its very unlikely that I will be able to gleam any information that way but shall try and make enquiries. She has been under re-construction all that time, on and off, more off than on. It is definitely safe to assume she has never been in commission with her new deck.

Thanks

Adam

[Bob Cleek]

You will probably come to grief soon with the plywood patchwork beneath the teak overlayment. I'd suggest you have a good wooden boat butcher take a look at it and let you know what they thing is the best solution. (Hard to guess here without pictures.) You can get the construction drawings from Barry Van Geffen at the Laurent Giles Archive. http://www.laurentgilesarchive.com/ Contact him and let him know you have Atlantis of Rhu and he can probably give you a lot of information and what construction drawings you need at a reasonable price. (Don't let the cost of their plans and "license to build" scare you. If you already own a Giles boat, the plans come much cheaper, or used to, at least.) With those in hand, I'd be inclined to tear up the old deck if need be and replace it as designed. If the original deck is solid, much of it may be salvageable, or not even require pulling up. Don't discount the possibility that some idiot took a shortcut and just slapped more teak on top of the original stuff because they didn't want to have to do it right!

[Don Kurylko]

Without actually seeing what deck looks like, it is impossible to make any kind of realistic recomendations. But, if as you say, the deck was done professionally, it may not be all that bad. I personally would hold off on anything drastic untill I had a chance to sail the boat for a year and see how it stood up. You indicated that the veneers were well glued down and that might hint at a job well done by the yard. At the very least, hosing it down thoroughly at the saw mill might be revealing.

Replacing the deck would be a big, time consuming job and an expensive one. Removing the veneers and replacing them with plywood and more veneers seems pointless. One thing that you might want to look into is sealing the deck with Coelan. This is a modern "miracle" coating of sorts that is clear like varnish but has non-skid properties. It is, in fact, a clear polyurea membrane of some sort that is extremely tough and durable.

One of our Forumites from over in your neck of the woods, Andrew Craig-Bennett, applied it to his laid deck and swears by it. It is quite expensive, but nothing compared to the major surgery being contemplated. It's certainly worth a bit of research time. Give it a Google, or PM Andrew and see what he has to say about it.

[Jay Greer]

It never ceases to amaze me that owners will go to great extemes to avoid doing a job correctly! After they have applied a band aid and it fails down the line they cry the blues! Now they are faced with both removing the failed patch job and then doing what should have been done in the beginning. Most boat builders, who know their stuff, are not surprised or discouraged when a planked deck has finally out lived its expected life. More often than not, removing the old deck and laying a new one is, in the long run, the cheapest and most effective cure. There are many woods that can be used in place of teak if price or availability is a matter of concern.
To name a few, Eastern White Pine, Eastern White Cedar, Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Port Orford Cedar, Western Fir, some grades of Eucalyptus, Sapele and
Tanguile can be used for decking. While Tanguile is not as rot resistant as other suitable woods, it can be obtained at a more reasonable in price than others mentioned. If hand selected for heart wood and kept oiled it can last some twenty to thirty years or, even more.
Jay

[boattruck]

A of R, I am currently restoring a boat that had a overlay deck installed over a straight layed plank deck, fir over fir, some 20 or 30 years ago, this failed slowly and took much of the deck framing, carlins with it, I would look hard and long at this situation and put it back together better than it was, so you don't have to do it yet again...
I have done more than a few overlay teak decks on glass boats, and have repaired plenty of wood decks both planked and ply, it is rare indeed, that a plank deck boat would benefit from an overlay deck, I have done a very few, where that was the best option, but they are darn rare...Cheers, Steve/BT

[Atlantis of Rhu]

Your comments are all very helpful thank you.

With your advice in mind I have decided, when I come to remedy the deck situation, to go for a complete replacement, as originally designed. I don't have the time or money to gamble so I'll stick with the time proven method. I also think if it is replaced as original it should add value to her? She has already had her hull 80% re-planked, completely re-fastened and nearly completely re-framed (all except some of the grown frames that are I great condition). Not that I ever intend on selling her!

Bob, thanks for the link but I already have her plans.

Thanks again All.

[Jay Greer]

Glad to see you make the smart choice! And, you are very correct as to adding value to your boat. When a surveyor sees that care was correctly taken to do the job right he will give the boat an extra gold star!
Jay