Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

[Woxbox]

And will they claim that hazard wasn't charted, either?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

NickW - this was the last capsized big Italian passenger ship...

The LEONARDO DA VINCI caught fire when laid up in La Spezia in 1980; she capsized due to firefighting water, as so often happens, and was raised (last picture) by Smit after two years of efforts and scrapped.

[MiddleAgesMan]

Starboard side down...at least they are consistent.

[John E Hardiman]

So why did she sink?

At the moment we don't know but there have been media reports that an engineer reported that five compartments were flooded or flooding.

Under SOLAS 90, maximum damage length is 60m and the required subdivision (R) for a ship this size is ~0.85, so the length of damage (~55m) is very close to her survival length. Given that it took her almost an hour to downflood, and that she sank due to grounding instability, this looks like a RMS Titanic type event where the damage >just< exceeded the design length of damage.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Very well expressed; thank you, John.

By the way, escapes on a ship are so far as possible arranged so that doors open towards you - this is because of the risk of them being blocked by unseen debris if they opened the other way. One reason why the bulkhead deck is not like the tank top - able to resist a head of air pressure below it -is that the vertical escapes must pass through it.

[George.]

The Costa Magica came in again, and I paddled the canoe out to see it and imagine an evacuation while it capsizes. Two things struck me:

1) There don't seem to be enough (any?) passages connecting the port and starboard boat decks. At least the aft half of the boats have no passageways leading into the ship at all. It seems to me that in a capsize, even a slow one, the people mustered on the "wrong" side would have a hell of a time making it across the ship.

2) The bridge is quite far and higher up from the boat deck, again with no easy access. If the captain and officers are expected to remain on board until the evacuation is complete, that means that at the last moment, with the ship maybe listing hard, maybe just about to sink, they have to make their way through the inside of several decks.

If I were captain, I would be more likely to keep it together and stay at my post if I had a lifeboat to step into right by the bridge.

[BarnacleGrim]

In my limited experience with passenger ships, the passengers are typically mustered in a space inside with easy access to both sides of the ship, like an atrium or a restaurant.

The crew has assigned stations and duties in emergencies, the captain's duty is to bring ship's documents to lifeboats, and otherwise assist where needed.

[Concordia 33]

In my limited experience with passenger ships, the passengers are typically mustered in a space inside with easy access to both sides of the ship, like an atrium or a restaurant.

The crew has assigned stations and duties in emergencies, the captain's duty is to bring ship's documents to lifeboats, and otherwise assist where needed.

I have been on several cruises, Celebrity (2), Royal Caribbean(2) and Princess(like Costa it is a Carnival subsidiarity). Unlike in other countries, we were always required to practice a muster before leaving port - the Costa Concordia was not scheduled to have a muster until the day after the accident. In all cases my musters were on the promenade right in front of the lifeboat we would be boarding. Also, in my experience, there are at least 3 passageways that connect port to starboard (Forward, aft and midship).

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

The reason that some passengers on the Costa Concordia had not had a boat drill was that she embarked and disembarked passengers at several ports. Under the SOLAS convention, it is permissible to defer the boat drill in such cases.

[jackster]

The reason that some passengers on the Costa Concordia had not had a boat drill was that she embarked and disembarked passengers at several ports. Under the SOLAS convention, it is permissible to defer the boat drill in such cases.

Well... does this mean that under the SOLAS agreement, if passenger(s) embark or disembark at each of the ports, that a boat drill is NEVER required?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

No. At least one boat drill per week, or per voyage, whichever is less, no matter what.

[Bill R]

Thank you ACB (and others). I have gotten quite an education from reading the comments here.

[PatCassidy]

cut and paste:


The Safety of Life at Sea convention requirements are fairly basic when it comes to muster drill procedures. (SOLAS is the international basis for maritime regulations and has been adopted by the International Maritime Organization, which itself is part of the U.N.) These requirements simply state that for a voyage where passengers are to be onboard for more than 24 hours, "a muster of the passengers shall take place within 24 hours after their embarkation. Passengers shall be instructed in the use of life jackets and the action to take in an emergency."

For those times when a ship decides not to hold a drill before or at sailing, SOLAS states that "a passenger safety briefing shall be given immediately before sailing, or immediately after sailing." The content of this briefing must be "clear instructions to be followed in the event of an emergency." In instances where a full muster is not held immediately before departure, this briefing is often done over the public address system. Videos shown in cabins may supplement the briefing, but may not replace the briefing.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Cut and paste from the Convention itself:

Regulation 18.
Emergency training and drills


1 This regulation applies to all ships.

2 Manuals

A training manual complying with the requirements of regulation III/51 shall be provided in each crew mess room and recreation room or in each crew cabin.

3 Practice musters and drills

3.1 Each member of the crew shall participate in at least one abandon ship drill and one fire drill every month. The drills of the crew shall take place within 24 h of the ship leaving a port if more than 25% of the crew have not participated in abandon ship and fire drills on board that particular ship in the previous month. The Administration may accept other arrangements that are at least equivalent for those classes of ship for which this is impracticable.

3.2 On a ship engaged on an international voyage which is not a short international voyage, musters of the passengers shall take place within 24 h after their embarkation. Passengers shall be instructed in the use of the lifejackets and the action to take in an emergency. If only a small number of passengers embark at a port after the muster has been held it shall be sufficient, instead of holding another muster, to draw the attention of these passengers to the emergency instructions required by regulations III/8.2 and 8.4.

3.3 On a ship engaged on a short international voyage, if a muster of the passengers is not held on departure, the attention of the passengers shall be drawn to the emergency instructions required by regulations III/8.2 and 8.4.

.......


Section II-PASSENGERSHIPS (Additional requirements)


Regulation 20.
Survival craft and rescue boats


1 Survival craft

1.1 Passenger ships engaged on international voyages which are not short international shall carry:

.1 lifeboats complying with the requirements of regulation III/42, 43 or 44 on each side of such aggregate capacity as will accommodate not less than 50% of the total number of persons on board. The Administration may permit the substitution of lifeboats by liferafts of equivalent total capacity provided that there shall never be less than sufficient lifeboats on each side of the ship to accommodate 37,5% of the total number of persons on board. The life-rafts shall comply with the requirements of regulation III/39 or 40 and shall be served by launching appliances equally distributed on each side of the ship; and

.2 in addition, liferafts complying with the requirements of regulation III/39 or 40 of such aggregate capacity as will accommodate at least 25% of the total number of persons on board. These liferafts shall be served by at least one launching appliance on each side which may be those provided in compliance with the requirements of paragraph 1.1.1 or equivalent approved appliances capable of being used on both sides. However, stowage of these liferafts need not comply with the requirements of regulation III/13.5.

1.2 Passenger ships engaged on short international voyages and complying with the special standards of subdivision prescribed by regulation II-1/6.5 shall carry:

.1 lifeboats complying with the requirements of regulations III/42, 43 or 44 equally distributed, as far as practicable, on each side of the ship and of such aggregate capacity as will accommodate at least 30% of the total number of persons on board and liferafts complying with requirements of regulation III/39 or 40 of such aggregate capacity that, together with the lifeboat capacity, the survival craft will accommodate the total number of persons on board. The liferafts shall be served by launching appliances equally distributed on each side of the ship; and

.2 in addition, liferafts complying with the requirements of regulation III/39 or 40 of such aggregate capacity as will accommodate at least 25% of the total number of persons on board. These liferafts shall be served by at least one launching appliance on each side which may be those provided in compliance with the requirements of paragraph 1.2.1 or equivalent approved appliances capable of being used on both sides. However, stowage of these liferafts need not comply with the requirements of regulation III/13.5.

1.3 Passenger ships engaged on short international voyages and not complying with the special standard of subdivision prescribed by regulation II-1/6.5, shall carry survival craft complying with the requirements of paragraph 1.1.

1.4 All survival craft required to provide for abandonment by the total number of persons on board shall be capable of being launched with their full complement of persons and equipment within a period of 30 min from the time the abandon ship signal is given.


......

[NickW]

Let's have some good news from this tragic accident, see this from the Daily Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...eddy-bear.html

I hope the poor bear dried out alright!

Nick

[Rich Jones]

Forgive me if I've missed this in a previous post, but has the reef that the ship hit been identified and was it indeed uncharted like the Captain claimed? Hard to believe that a reef like that would go unnoticed for centuries.

[gilberj]

The reef was known, and charted. There has been so much media crap it is difficult to know what he may have actually said.

[peter radclyffe]

translated what he actually said was

its time to put a reef in

[George.]

Or maybe he meant the reefer he burned with the blonde before telling her to hold his wine and watch this...

[MiddleAgesMan]

Schettino, from a court transcript: "...I did do something rash, but God would have made it alright for me if I hadn't set the rudder to starboard..."

http://news.yahoo.com/cruise-ship-di...192953790.html

[John E Hardiman]

Forgive me if I've missed this in a previous post, but has the reef that the ship hit been identified and was it indeed uncharted like the Captain claimed? Hard to believe that a reef like that would go unnoticed for centuries.

No, it was charted, but I wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't charted fully, or exactly. Just because you have an echart, do expect the data to be any better, or worse, than 18th century methods. Indeed, many places were charted in the 1800's and have never been charted again, and the echarts are just digitalizations of the old hand-drawn linen charts. FWIW, more than 90% of the ocean has never been charted or sounded, and of the rest maybe 2-3% have high resolution bathymetry (the big lie, ocean depth are only spot sampled on track lines and the rest filled in by approximate gravimetric lines measured from space). In the bigger picture, why would you need to chart the whole coastline to meter accuracy? The locals most likely knew there was a ledge there, but it was deeper than the draft of most vessels, and who would take a big ship that close to shore without sounding? I'm sure there are thousands of uncharted, and PA/PD rocks and pinnacles out there, just waiting for some ship to "name" them.

[Canoeyawl]

To me it looks a lot more like an Island than a reef.

http://www.universetoday.com/wp-cont...Ken-Kremer.jpg

[PatCassidy]

IMO, at least 90% of navigation can be simplified to two words: "sea room"

sea room: space in which to maneuver without danger of grounding or colliding.

To the extent that Carnival allowed its ships to operate in a manner that compromised the basic principle of "sea room" they may in a bit of trouble. The concept of sea room is at least as basic as "look both ways before you cross the street." Under the circumstances, I think minimum sea room for Costa Concordia should have been at least one mile from shore - if not two!

[Paul Pless]

I'm sure there are thousands of uncharted, and PA/PD rocks and pinnacles out there, just waiting for some ship to "name" them.

I'm reminded of the misadventure of the USS San Francisco. 200 feet deep and at 'flank speed', its a wonder she wasn't lost. . .

[Captain Intrepid]

Apparently this is footage from the wheelhouse, minutes after the collision.

http://www.youtube.com/v/kzXTRMIcbSo

[Woxbox]

Wow.

[Bob Adams]

Did anybody see the hour long show about the incident last night (2/19) on the Discovery Channel?

[jackster]

Bob,
Yes, I did see the show and was disappointed, though not surprised, that it was 85% Tabloid and 15% informative.
What did you think?

[The Bigfella]

From Uncle Rupert's local rag

EIGHT more bodies were found today on the shipwrecked Costa Concordia after divers expanded their search of the Italian cruise liner's submerged decks while police widened their investigation of those responsible for the disaster.

Today's grim discoveries mean that authorities have now recovered 25 bodies of the 32 believed dead in the January 13 tragedy.

Seven people are still unaccounted-for more than a month after the ship ran aground off Italy's Mediterranean coast with over 4000 on board.

The eight bodies were recovered just hours after scaffolding was set up at the wreck to allow divers to continue searching the decks of the vessel, which remains semi-submerged and lying on its side close to the island of Giglio's rocky shores.

Among the bodies found Wednesday local time was that of five-year-old Dayana Arlotti, an Italian girl who was the youngest passenger, according to Sky Italia's TG24. She was travelling with her father.

Meanwhile, the ship's operator was becoming further implicated in a probe into the disaster.

Three managers of Costa Crociere received formal notifications that they were under investigation along with four officers from the liner, according to AFP.
TG24 reported that the seven officials face charges of manslaughter, causing a shipwreck and failure to notify maritime authorities.

The Italian news channel named the three managers as the company's vice president Ursprunger Manfred, the top emergency officer Roberto Ferrarini and fleet superintendent Paolo Parodi. The four officers were identified as Andrea Bongiovanni, Roberto Bosio, Silvia Coronica and Salvatore Ursino.

They join captain Francesco Schettino, who is under house arrest, and first officer Ciro Ambrosio as suspects in the tragedy. Those two men face charges of manslaughter and abandoning ship before all passengers were evacuated.

The victims found Wednesday were thought to be pulled from deck four of the ship. The head of Italy's civil protection agency, Franco Gabrielli, had said in recent days that experts anticipated all the remaining bodies to be recovered from the fourth deck, where passengers gathered once the decision was made to abandon ship, TG24 reported.

The search of underwater deck areas was previously called off January 31 amid bad weather and fears that the cruise liner could slip from the ledge where it came to rest, placing recovery divers in jeopardy. The focus then shifted to the operation to pump the ship's fuel reserves off the vessel, which began February 12.

[willmarsh3]

I found a diagram of what happened that is quite detailed. It mentions using bow thrusters powered by emergengy generators which contradicts some earlier posts here.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02...g-reports-say/

[Tom Hunter]

@Will

The diagram lists sources as Forbes.com (what?) marinetraffic.com, boatdesign.net and news media sources. As far as I can tell, none of those groups have information we don't have, so the statement that the bow thrusters were active is still speculation, not fact. A number of news outlets said they were used, but I have yet to see an inquest report saying they were operational.

I'm a bit more inclined to believe Andrew, when he says there would not be enough power to run the bow thrusters. I also have some bias in favor of the idea that the wind put her on shore, not action by the captain. I could certainly be wrong about both, but I'm not going to surrender my theories because of a diagram created with information from Forbes.

The timeline is very good, but the descriptions of why things happened may not be accurate.

[Bob Adams]

Bob,
Yes, I did see the show and was disappointed, though not surprised, that it was 85% Tabloid and 15% informative.
What did you think?

I pretty much agree with you, they rushed to get something on the air. On thing I definately agree with though, as they mentioned at the end, if the wind had been blowing away from the island, and the ship sunk in 300 feet of water, it would have been a 21 century Titanic.

[jackster]

I pretty much agree with you, they rushed to get something on the air. On thing I definately agree with though, as they mentioned at the end, if the wind had been blowing away from the island, and the ship sunk in 300 feet of water, it would have been a 21 century Titanic.

I understand the point about sinking in deep water, what I don't know is WOULD it have sunk?
According to what I gather (which is admittedly incomplete), the building regulations require the vessel to be designed so it cross floods and settles (sinks) upright enough (less than 20 degrees of list as I recall) to launch the lifeboats/ rafts, allowing the passengers and crew to escape, with or without an abandon ship order.
And, that 3 or 4 watertight compartment were damaged, making me wonder if, assuming the watertight doors were closed on the remaining compartments, that would be enough to sink her.
As I understand it, the overwhelming loss of life was due to the list when grounded, coupled with the tardy abandon order.
This, I know, is just speculation until the 'official' accident report is made with, I hope the information contained in the "black box".
What do you think?

[Sailor]

I think the size of the hole in her was pretty much a guarantee she was going to the bottom. That gas is HUGE.

[Bob Adams]

I think I heard there were 5 compartments breached. If she'd have been in deep water, and the abandon ship order been delayed as much as it was, things would have gone from bad to tragic. The list would have prevented the use of many life boats and the ones which did get launched would be too far from shore to make return trips as happend here. I'd bet a fair amount of money she'd have turned turtle within a couple hours in deep water, creating a "Poseiden Adventure" in the end.

[skuthorp]

Just a small update, report says that the captain needed glasses to see the instruments on the bridge, and he did not have them at the time of the grounding. Report said he was asking others on the bridge what the instruments showed.

[Bob Adams]

Just a small update, report says that the captain needed glasses to see the instruments on the bridge, and he did not have them at the time of the grounding. Report said he was asking others on the bridge what the instruments showed.

Yanno, early in this thread there were generic insults being spread around concerning certain nationalities of ship's Masters. The following opinon is concerning only this one. I'm starting to think this Captain would throw anyone and everyone under the bus to save his own ass.

[Mad Scientist]

In this day and age, it seems a bit unusual that an Italian-flag ship had an accident in Italian waters. IIRC, the ship was built in Italy, too. At least there's no doubt about jurisdiction in this case.

Tom

[Bob Adams]

Well, if true, this took some large, brass, gronicles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17384396

[Nicholas Carey]

Well, if true, this took some large, brass, gronicles:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17384396

I saw that over the weekend. Just soME methheads stealing copper to support their habit, I'm sure LOL

[NickW]

The BBC has reported that 5 more bodies have been recovered from between the wreck and the seabed. Also, the fuel oil removal operation is nearly complete. Full story here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17472345

Nick

[skuthorp]

There was some talk about the comparative costs of salvage and demolition, including the environmental damage costs of either process on the radio the other day but I can't find a reference.

[Benson Gray]

The article at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16573312 has some information about the salvage and demolition options.

Benson

[Rich Jones]

What's been going on with the salvage? Anyone know?

[Brian Palmer]

Google is your friend:

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=4838

Brian

[Rich Jones]

Thanks for the link. That's one impressive plan. Reading between the lines, I take it that this ship will never sail again, but instead be cut up for salvage once they refloat it and get it to a port.

[GregH]

More important, what's happening with the idiot captain?

[Gerarddm]

An ambitious plan, yes. But then there was an article years ago in the Nautical Research Journal about how the hulk of the USS Maine was raised from Havana harbor. Mostimpressive to these amateur eyes, especially with the technology available back then. Salvagers evidently have always been a creative, resourceful bunch.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

This was not the cheapest option, but the one that involves the least environmental damage. It would have been much cheaper to cut her down on the spot, but that would have made a mess.

One of the greatest wreck removal epics, given the technology of the day, was the salvage of the German High Seas Fleet from the bottom of Scapa Flow.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1z12aCox.htm

The Hamburg towage and salvage company Bugsier provided the tugs until they were told not to by Hitler, who did not want German tugs doing the work. This was one of the reasons why they were not supporters of his regime.

[orbb]

Huey, Dewey and Louie also had a clever means for raising Uncle Scrooge's sunken yacht, which was later put to use in real life (See No. 3 in the linked article):

http://www.cracked.com/article_19021...seriously.html