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Thread: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

  1. #1
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    Default Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'd heard 8 dead... they all jumped for some unknown reason
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I'd heard 8 dead... they all jumped for some unknown reason
    Rapid, severe list is probably why, there were reports of panic, she's completely on her side now..Can't seem to post pictures,I wonder how they are going to salvage this one, in pieces I'd bet.
    Last edited by Bob Adams; 01-14-2012 at 07:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    In this day and age, how does this happen? That ship probably has the capability to steer itself by GPS.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    and therin maybe the problem
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    and therin maybe the problem
    I guess I am saying that there must be multiple, redundant systems dedicated to navigation, in addition to the humans. There must be a series of cascading failures to get to this point.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Andrew posted a very interesting link in the bilge thread: http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/AC...ational-error/

    After reading it, all I can say is wow.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'm not sure you're supposed to aim directly at the lighthouse.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    The Ship is the Costa Concordia, one of the very nice Italian Costa Line.

    The ship isn't even that old either, I wonder if it was an accident, or negligence of the crew...

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Link lost when the thread in the bilge was deleted:


    http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/AC...ational-error/

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Stupefying. Photos show these huge boulders the size of VW Bugs wedged into gashes in the hull. How fast was she going? The captain has a lot to answer for, as does the crew for their ineptitude during evacuation.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    There is no excuse for this happening. Clear weather, high tech vessel, common passage. This is inexcusable. Complacency is probable cause.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Costa Crociere are a very old established cruise line, who have been the Italian arm of Carnival Corporation for many years now. There are I think five sister ships to this design.

    I would expect there to have been two officers and two quartermasters on the bridge, assuming the Captain was at dinner.

    In addition to a multiplicity of redundant systems. This ship cost around US$430M when built, in 2006.

    Carnival's and Costa's technical standards are excellent.

    Guessing wildly, and that is really all that I can do, my guess is that the course on the autopilot was inadvertently altered, or possibly the autopilot was disengaged, and nobody noticed for almost forty minutes, until the island loomed up and the course was hurriedly altered to starboard, but too late and she scraped the rock ledge; it would quickly have become apparent that the situation was grim and they beached her in a hurry.

    No points for getting into trouble but quite good marks for the response.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead






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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Here is quite a different explanation for what may have happened:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    It will be interesting once a full investigation is completed. I think we can rely on Andrew for the latest here.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Obviously, everyone on the bridge was asleep at the wheel. No lookout? No radar? How could you possibly get this close to land and not see the lights on shore? Arrests for gross negligence will certainly result.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Here's a poignant excerpt from ACB's link in #18( italics mine):

    Despite the disaster which befell the Concordia, Mr Latarche said that modern ocean liners have a very good safety record, even though the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the last decade makes a full-scale evacuation at sea almost impossible.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Here is quite a different explanation for what may have happened:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html
    Fascinating.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Andrew- That link could explain how she got on the rocks, the events afterward are questionable based on some early passenger interviews. I mentioned in an earlier post I thought she'd not float again. How do you think they will get her out of there? I can't fathom how they could right her with all that superstructure.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Andrew- That link could explain how she got on the rocks, the events afterward are questionable based on some early passenger interviews. I mentioned in an earlier post I thought she'd not float again. How do you think they will get her out of there? I can't fathom how they could right her with all that superstructure.
    If she is on sand she may settle into a scour pit, which will make it extremely difficult. If the bottom is firm enough, which I doubt or she will not have rolled as she has, it is possible to fit weldments to the ships side from which you can rig wires to pull her upright.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I am not knowledgeable about the modern large cruise ships with diesel electric propulsion.

    Whether the ship is worth salvaging will be a matter of how much it would cost to repair her. Let's assume she is insured for US$500M; 20% of that vill be TLO and 80% will be All Risks so if the cost of salvge and repair looks likely to be more than US$400M she will be a Constructive Total Laoss and the wreck will be cut up and removed in sections.

    If the cost of repair looks much less then attempts will be made to salvage her.

    What follows is based on the techniques used in the salvage business in the 1970's which was when I was involved.

    As a salvage job, it breaks down into four parts - getting the oil off before it leaks, patching the accessible holes, bringing her upright, and floating her off.

    This ship was built in Italy and is six years old, so locating and pumping out the fuel should not be too hard.

    Clearly the visible damage is relatively easy to patch, and damage under water but clear of the bottom can also be closed with welded patches.

    Tanks and compartments open to the sea can be sealed on the upper sides and top and "pressed up" with compressed air to de-water them even if they are open to the sea underneath. It is also possible to use expanded polystyrene granules if the compartment cannot be sealed well.

    It should be possible to roll the ship upright using parbuckles; barges can be anchored to seaward and tackles taken to masts erected on the ship's side for the purpose. Of course, that has never been done with a ship this big.

    Since the Mediterranean has no significant tides, the actual refloating may be quite tricky. As the ship was deliberately beached when drawing not much more than normal there will not be much margin of floatation to work with. It may be necessary to cut away some weight to get her to float.

    All this depends on the weather, of course.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 01-14-2012 at 04:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    With absolute certainty, this was a result of human error. With a high level of certainty, everyone involved was fatigued.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    These big cruise ships are very well run - I don't know, but I'm going to assume that operating procedures will be standardised pretty much across the whole Carnival - Holland America - Princess - P&O - Cunard - Costa fleet, with allowances for national and regional differences.

    I'm expecting hours of rest to be strictly complied with in advance of the new convention coming into force, and I'm expecting two officers on the bridge, with two quartermasters. Which does not explain what happened, of course.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    "Hours of rest"

    a) Each person assigned duty as officer in charge of a navigational or engineering watch, or duty as a rating forming part of a navigational or engineering watch, on board any vessel that operates beyond the Boundary Line shall receive a minimum of 10 hours of rest in any 24-hour period.

    (b) The hours of rest required under paragraph (a) of this section may be divided into no more than two periods, of which one must be at least 6 hours in length.

    Six hours.... You get off watch... You go to sleep 45 minutes later. You get a call 20 minutes before watch starts. Your 6 hours of sleep has been reduced to 5 hours and 5 minutes.... The reality is less sleep than that.

    Now do that for 4 to 6 months without a day off....

  29. #29

    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    http://video.corriere.it/nave-concor...2-5f77182bc574it may have taken a similar route last year

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Well spotted Peter.

    I watched that and said, out loud, "Oh B....y H... !"

    Gianni Onorato fronted up decently I thought, on the next clip.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


  32. #32

    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    yes Andrew,like the Inca it may have been sightseeing Giglio

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Some other things to do during your time "off": mooring stations in and out of port, fire drills, abandon ship drills, security drills, medical emergency drills, passenger drills, garbage management plans, oil pollution drills, officer meetings, safety inspections, requisitions, inventories ...

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by peter radclyffe View Post
    yes Andrew,like the Inca it may have been sightseeing Giglio
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Mikhail_Lermontov
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    There was some video this morning and someone said that they take this route 50 times a year and the rock they hit wasn't charted. I have no idea if he knew what he was talking about of course.

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