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Thread: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

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    Default Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'd heard 8 dead... they all jumped for some unknown reason
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    I'd heard 8 dead... they all jumped for some unknown reason
    Rapid, severe list is probably why, there were reports of panic, she's completely on her side now..Can't seem to post pictures,I wonder how they are going to salvage this one, in pieces I'd bet.
    Last edited by Bob Adams; 01-14-2012 at 08:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    In this day and age, how does this happen? That ship probably has the capability to steer itself by GPS.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    and therin maybe the problem
    Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

    I'd rather look back at my life and say "I can't believe I did that" instead of being there saying "I wish I'd done that"

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    and therin maybe the problem
    I guess I am saying that there must be multiple, redundant systems dedicated to navigation, in addition to the humans. There must be a series of cascading failures to get to this point.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Andrew posted a very interesting link in the bilge thread: http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/AC...ational-error/

    After reading it, all I can say is wow.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'm not sure you're supposed to aim directly at the lighthouse.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    The Ship is the Costa Concordia, one of the very nice Italian Costa Line.

    The ship isn't even that old either, I wonder if it was an accident, or negligence of the crew...

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Link lost when the thread in the bilge was deleted:


    http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/AC...ational-error/

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Link lost when the thread in the bilge was deleted:


    http://www.seanews.com.tr/article/AC...ational-error/
    The link was posted back in post #8. I checked before I deleted my thread.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Stupefying. Photos show these huge boulders the size of VW Bugs wedged into gashes in the hull. How fast was she going? The captain has a lot to answer for, as does the crew for their ineptitude during evacuation.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    There is no excuse for this happening. Clear weather, high tech vessel, common passage. This is inexcusable. Complacency is probable cause.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Costa Crociere are a very old established cruise line, who have been the Italian arm of Carnival Corporation for many years now. There are I think five sister ships to this design.

    I would expect there to have been two officers and two quartermasters on the bridge, assuming the Captain was at dinner.

    In addition to a multiplicity of redundant systems. This ship cost around US$430M when built, in 2006.

    Carnival's and Costa's technical standards are excellent.

    Guessing wildly, and that is really all that I can do, my guess is that the course on the autopilot was inadvertently altered, or possibly the autopilot was disengaged, and nobody noticed for almost forty minutes, until the island loomed up and the course was hurriedly altered to starboard, but too late and she scraped the rock ledge; it would quickly have become apparent that the situation was grim and they beached her in a hurry.

    No points for getting into trouble but quite good marks for the response.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead






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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Here is quite a different explanation for what may have happened:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    It will be interesting once a full investigation is completed. I think we can rely on Andrew for the latest here.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Obviously, everyone on the bridge was asleep at the wheel. No lookout? No radar? How could you possibly get this close to land and not see the lights on shore? Arrests for gross negligence will certainly result.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Here's a poignant excerpt from ACB's link in #18( italics mine):

    Despite the disaster which befell the Concordia, Mr Latarche said that modern ocean liners have a very good safety record, even though the fact that the average tonnage of cruise ships has doubled in the last decade makes a full-scale evacuation at sea almost impossible.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Here is quite a different explanation for what may have happened:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-accident.html
    Fascinating.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Andrew- That link could explain how she got on the rocks, the events afterward are questionable based on some early passenger interviews. I mentioned in an earlier post I thought she'd not float again. How do you think they will get her out of there? I can't fathom how they could right her with all that superstructure.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Andrew- That link could explain how she got on the rocks, the events afterward are questionable based on some early passenger interviews. I mentioned in an earlier post I thought she'd not float again. How do you think they will get her out of there? I can't fathom how they could right her with all that superstructure.
    If she is on sand she may settle into a scour pit, which will make it extremely difficult. If the bottom is firm enough, which I doubt or she will not have rolled as she has, it is possible to fit weldments to the ships side from which you can rig wires to pull her upright.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I am not knowledgeable about the modern large cruise ships with diesel electric propulsion.

    Whether the ship is worth salvaging will be a matter of how much it would cost to repair her. Let's assume she is insured for US$500M; 20% of that vill be TLO and 80% will be All Risks so if the cost of salvge and repair looks likely to be more than US$400M she will be a Constructive Total Laoss and the wreck will be cut up and removed in sections.

    If the cost of repair looks much less then attempts will be made to salvage her.

    What follows is based on the techniques used in the salvage business in the 1970's which was when I was involved.

    As a salvage job, it breaks down into four parts - getting the oil off before it leaks, patching the accessible holes, bringing her upright, and floating her off.

    This ship was built in Italy and is six years old, so locating and pumping out the fuel should not be too hard.

    Clearly the visible damage is relatively easy to patch, and damage under water but clear of the bottom can also be closed with welded patches.

    Tanks and compartments open to the sea can be sealed on the upper sides and top and "pressed up" with compressed air to de-water them even if they are open to the sea underneath. It is also possible to use expanded polystyrene granules if the compartment cannot be sealed well.

    It should be possible to roll the ship upright using parbuckles; barges can be anchored to seaward and tackles taken to masts erected on the ship's side for the purpose. Of course, that has never been done with a ship this big.

    Since the Mediterranean has no significant tides, the actual refloating may be quite tricky. As the ship was deliberately beached when drawing not much more than normal there will not be much margin of floatation to work with. It may be necessary to cut away some weight to get her to float.

    All this depends on the weather, of course.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 01-14-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    With absolute certainty, this was a result of human error. With a high level of certainty, everyone involved was fatigued.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    These big cruise ships are very well run - I don't know, but I'm going to assume that operating procedures will be standardised pretty much across the whole Carnival - Holland America - Princess - P&O - Cunard - Costa fleet, with allowances for national and regional differences.

    I'm expecting hours of rest to be strictly complied with in advance of the new convention coming into force, and I'm expecting two officers on the bridge, with two quartermasters. Which does not explain what happened, of course.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    "Hours of rest"

    a) Each person assigned duty as officer in charge of a navigational or engineering watch, or duty as a rating forming part of a navigational or engineering watch, on board any vessel that operates beyond the Boundary Line shall receive a minimum of 10 hours of rest in any 24-hour period.

    (b) The hours of rest required under paragraph (a) of this section may be divided into no more than two periods, of which one must be at least 6 hours in length.

    Six hours.... You get off watch... You go to sleep 45 minutes later. You get a call 20 minutes before watch starts. Your 6 hours of sleep has been reduced to 5 hours and 5 minutes.... The reality is less sleep than that.

    Now do that for 4 to 6 months without a day off....

  30. #30

    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    http://video.corriere.it/nave-concor...2-5f77182bc574it may have taken a similar route last year

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Well spotted Peter.

    I watched that and said, out loud, "Oh B....y H... !"

    Gianni Onorato fronted up decently I thought, on the next clip.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead


  33. #33

    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    yes Andrew,like the Inca it may have been sightseeing Giglio

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Some other things to do during your time "off": mooring stations in and out of port, fire drills, abandon ship drills, security drills, medical emergency drills, passenger drills, garbage management plans, oil pollution drills, officer meetings, safety inspections, requisitions, inventories ...

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by peter radclyffe View Post
    yes Andrew,like the Inca it may have been sightseeing Giglio
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Mikhail_Lermontov
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    There was some video this morning and someone said that they take this route 50 times a year and the rock they hit wasn't charted. I have no idea if he knew what he was talking about of course.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'm impressed by the seamanlike acumen that's able to assign fault to the crew on the basis of no information. Brilliant.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I'm impressed by the seamanlike acumen that's able to assign fault to the crew on the basis of no information. Brilliant.
    Aye. I find the best thing to do when incidents like this occur is to sit back, gather as much information as possible, and wait for the investigation before you start nailing hides to the wall.
    I'll just take my chances with those salt water joys.

    AR

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    One news portal states that the captain and first officer are under arrest because of abandoning ship before completing the evacuation of passangers, besides other more obvious reasons.

    What I find much more surprising is the tone and statements of the person interviewed by BBC:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16560617

    I'd like to know who that person is. That interview makes me much more afraid of stepping aboard such a vessel than this accident alone.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Further crazy news:
    Prosecutor Francesco Verusio told the daily television La7 that the commander brought the ship to the island so close because he wanted to greet another person with a siren/horn.
    The speed of the vessel at time of impact was 21kt, the news state.

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    I'm still trying to figure out where the ship hit exactly. The link above shows it struck south of Giglio while heading north. But the photos seem to show it just north of the town, turned south. Had the ship turned, hoping to make it into that tiny port before it went down?

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Shortly after scratching on the rocks, the person commanding the ship (at this moment it is not clear who it was) dropped the port side anchor and steered hard to port(*), the vessel than made a quick 180deg turn and went aground.

    I don't understand this very well, but this is what the news currently say. I've put the (*) because our news say that they turned the steering to the left, and I'm not 100% sure what our journalists/translators mean by that ;-)

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Earlier Saturday Francesco Schettino, captain of the Costa Concordia, had told Italian television that the vessel had hit a rocky spur while cruising in waters which, according to the charts, should have been safe.

    "As we were navigating at cruise speed, we hit a rocky spur," he told Tgcom24 television station:

    "According to the nautical chart, there should have been sufficient water underneath us," he added.

    Holidaymakers from Britain, France, Italy and Germany were forced to flee the 1,500-cabin Costa Concordia in lifeboats when it hit a reef less than two hours after leaving port.

    Some leapt overboard and swam to shore as the ship started to sink into the waters near the island of Giglio, off the Tuscan coast.

    The captain has been detained.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by matoi View Post
    Shortly after scratching on the rocks, the person commanding the ship (at this moment it is not clear who it was) dropped the port side anchor and steered hard to port(*), the vessel than made a quick 180deg turn and went aground.

    I don't understand this very well, but this is what the news currently say. I've put the (*) because our news say that they turned the steering to the left, and I'm not 100% sure what our journalists/translators mean by that ;-)
    Thanks, your news service seems better than ours, but I've seen a report that the the person commanding the ship was trying to get the ship, which was clearly sinking rapidly, alongside the harbour wall so that passengers could step ashore, without needing to use the ship's boats, knowing that he had many elderly and unfit passengers aboard.
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  45. #45

    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by matoi View Post
    Further crazy news:
    Prosecutor Francesco Verusio told the daily television La7 that the commander brought the ship to the island so close because he wanted to greet another person with a siren/horn.
    The speed of the vessel at time of impact was 21kt, the news state.

    http://youtu.be/_ZTCOcx7TrU

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Apparently, the Captain was arrested!
    http://www.ktvz.com/travelgetaways/30212867/detail.html

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Check out the blown-up chart and AIS track for the Costa Concordia. What the hell were they thinking?

    http://gcaptain.com/cruise-ship-cost...a-sinks/?37456

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Quote Originally Posted by matoi View Post
    Shortly after scratching on the rocks, the person commanding the ship (at this moment it is not clear who it was) dropped the port side anchor and steered hard to port(*), the vessel than made a quick 180deg turn and went aground.

    The port side is exposed, I don't see any evidence of anchor deployment....does anyone else?

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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    The hawsepipe is below water.

    It would be a sensible thing to do and since using anchors to manoeuvre into and out of berths is commonplace in Italian ports the crew would be able to do it very quickly.
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    Default Re: Italian cruise ship aground-at least 3 dead

    Yup. I was working from memory, just woke up prior to reporting for my second shift of the day, 2nd look at the pictures makes me want to delete that post. Suffice to say, this story is just begining.

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