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Thread: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

  1. #1751
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    We'll until you mentioned it, I had not noticed the tumblehome.

    I think it's cool how they lifted them. No slings. Temporary eyes were screwed onto two oversized ballast bolts. The lifting cables go through the cabin roof hatch to the eyes.
    Chuck Thompson

  2. #1752
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    I've been mostly doing wiring work and preparing the topsides for paint. I've got my last coat of primer on. Still have some touch up to do here and there. Some flaws you just can't see until you get some paint down. So, you can see some touchup filler here and there. In the photo, I can still make out the ares where I stripped the paint to get at the frame bungs and screws. The photo makes it look like these areas are not fair but they are.

    Inside, I've been wiring the DC charger. I eliminated the ammeter which was located a good 10 feet away from the battery. The alternator charging wire ran to th ammeter and then to the battery. The DC charger has high-low indicator lights so that should serve as my ammeter and avoid the voltage loss with that 20 foot run.

    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    I was wrestling with the same issue re the ammeter. I think I may try one of these:
    http://www.alliedelec.com/fw-bell-rss-100-a/70103873/
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  4. #1754
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    That's a good idea.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    That's a good idea.
    I'll do a little more research, and let you know what I come up with.

    What is your main breaker size?
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  6. #1756
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    .

    What is your main breaker size?
    50 Amp resettable fuses on all the leads to/from the AC and DC chargers and to the distribution panel. My starting circuit fuse is 300 amp slow burn fuse. And I put a 100 amp fuse on the line from the alternator to the DC charger.
    Chuck Thompson

  7. #1757
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Dang dang dang! I just realized I forgot to document the topside screws I did not replace before primer painting the topsides over. I meant to do this so I knew which ones might need to be replaced in the future. Now I might not be able to figure it out. Maybe I've got enough pictures to put it back together.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Chuck....

    Caught your write-up in the Concordian. Very nice. Looks like your restoration is going smoothly although you must feel as though it is taking an eternity. Any time you think that its taking too long, just look up Mark Webby (lives in New Zealand) who convinced Waldo Howland to let him build a 104'th Concordia in the early 1970's. As you may have noticed in the last issue of the Concordian, it is nearly finished. I don't think I could sit with one project for 45 years without loosing interest several decades ago.
    * _______________________________________ )

  9. #1759
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    50 Amp resettable fuses on all the leads to/from the AC and DC chargers and to the distribution panel. My starting circuit fuse is 300 amp slow burn fuse. And I put a 100 amp fuse on the line from the alternator to the DC charger.
    Unclear why your alternator would be connected to the charger.. Both of them are DC sources. What were you meaning by that?

    I used a set of charging relays to connect the alternator to the batteries. Underway, the battery(ies) that needs it the most are connected to the alternator. The charger has three outputs, one for each of the batteries. This is less than perfect, since the alternator mainly charges the start battery, and only does the house banks of they are discharged. The reality though is that we use very little, if any, house power while underway, and we almost always stay in marinas with shore power, so two house banks is probably overkill.


    OTOH when I was dealing with the fuel issue on MAKOTO I made use of a switch I installed that allows me to gang one or both hour batteries to the start battery, in case the start batt is low. Works like a charm! It is basically just a big Perko Batt switch. It is usually "off". I can switch it to 1, to get one house batt added tot he start batt, or 2 to get both of them.

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  10. #1760
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Sorry Scott. Once again I used the wrong word. Not a charger but an isolater/distributor. (Promariner Proisocharge) It uses the alternator juice and recharges the two banks in accordance with some alchemy I didn't even bother to understand.

    I've got a Blue Sea E-Series switch. On-Off-Combine. It isolates the 2 banks unless you put it on combine
    Chuck Thompson

  11. #1761
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Concordia 33 View Post
    Chuck....

    Caught your write-up in the Concordian. Very nice. Looks like your restoration is going smoothly although you must feel as though it is taking an eternity. Any time you think that its taking too long, just look up Mark Webby (lives in New Zealand) who convinced Waldo Howland to let him build a 104'th Concordia in the early 1970's. As you may have noticed in the last issue of the Concordian, it is nearly finished. I don't think I could sit with one project for 45 years without loosing interest several decades ago.
    I was excited that there was an actual sighting of Webby's boat! Thanks for the kind words. I'm getting close. Recaulking and painting are the last big tasks. And engine re-installation.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    Sorry Scott. Once again I used the wrong word. Not a charger but an isolater/distributor. (Promariner Proisocharge) It uses the alternator juice and recharges the two banks in accordance with some alchemy I didn't even bother to understand.

    I've got a Blue Sea E-Series switch. On-Off-Combine. It isolates the 2 banks unless you put it on combine

    Oh, OK, so that's like the Blue Seas "charging relay". It basically routes charging power to the batteries while keeping them separate electrically.

    So, that said, when you first mentioned the isolator, I thought it was a galvanic isolatorYou will want one of these if you have shore power. It is basically a pair of big diodes that separate the marina AC ground from the boat ground by about 0.5 volts. This tiny potential barrier prevents galvanic currents from flowing between anything grounded to the marina ground, and any of the grounded stuff on your boat...However, the diode drop is not sufficient to isolate the grounds sufficiently to present a shock hazard...very important...

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  13. #1763
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    So, that said, when you first mentioned the isolator, I thought it was a galvanic isolatorYou will want one of these if you have shore power. It is basically a pair of big diodes that separate the marina AC ground from the boat ground by about 0.5 volts. This tiny potential barrier prevents galvanic currents from flowing between anything grounded to the marina ground, and any of the grounded stuff on your boat...However, the diode drop is not sufficient to isolate the grounds sufficiently to present a shock hazard...very important...

    S
    Yup, that is on the list. Don't know how to install it yet
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    My caulker won't be available for a couple of more weeks. I decided to go ahead and caulk the few feet of topside seam that needed it. That way, I can paint the topsides after the compound skins over. It takes a week before it dries out enough to paint over. I figure it's safer for me to caulk a topside seam than one that will be underwater. The seams are narrow enough that I had to use an artists' brush to get some red lead in there to prime the seam.



    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    Yup, that is on the list. Don't know how to install it yet
    It is very simple. There are two terminals. The shore AC ground (green wire) goes to one, and the boat AC ground (which is also the DC ground) goes to the other. Any AC devices on the boat get grounded to the BOAT side.

    Conceptually, the idea is that diodes have a natural forward bias voltage drop. The drop depends on the diode material. Germanium is 0.5 volt (IIRC) and silicon os 0.7 volts. The isolator is two diodes connected in parallel, facing in opposite directions. So no matter which direction ground current is flowing, there is a 0.7 volt potential barrier that must be overcome in order for current to flow. Normally there is no current flow on the AC ground. However, when there is a short there is. THs flow drops the potential to some low value,and spares someone from electrocution. However, when you have a poor ground setup at a marina, or even on a nearby boat small potential differences (of the type found on the galvanic scale) can cause currents to flow. These currents act like electroplating, removing material from anodes and depositing it on cathodes (electrons flow from cathode to anode, so ions need to flow the other way to complete the circuit. The zincs on you boat are super effective anodes, so that they lose material (in the form of ions) and your prop shaft and bronze fitting don't...The isolator further inhibits the current flow, thereby further reducing this effect, and prolonging the anodes.
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  16. #1766
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    I looked it up Scott and it is very simple.

    My oldest daughter was down from D.C. to attend the undergraduate graduation of the youngest daughter. She helped me roll and tip the first coat on the topsides. Looks pretty good although you can see where I sanded the old paint off to get at the bungs in some places. My choices are to put up with it or try to fair it out with filler. I'll think on it a while.

    Chuck Thompson

  17. #1767
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    My caulker won't be available for a couple of more weeks. I decided to go ahead and caulk the few feet of topside seam that needed it. That way, I can paint the topsides after the compound skins over. It takes a week before it dries out enough to paint over. I figure it's safer for me to caulk a topside seam than one that will be underwater. The seams are narrow enough that I had to use an artists' brush to get some red lead in there to prime the seam.



    Nice job caulking Chuck. I did a few feet of my boat this winter as part of prepping the bottom for the season and it was much slower than and trickier than I remember. Keep up all the good work
    * _______________________________________ )

  18. #1768
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Thanks. I hope I got it right. Or close enough.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    When is Miah coming to help you caulk? Be sure to say Hi for us!!
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  20. #1770
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Hey Scott-or anyone else. Can you help explain this setup. Obviously, we are looking at the ignition here. I'll tell you what I know. The heavier red wire goes to the solenoid. I think the brown wire goes to the solenoid as well but I don't have a picture showing it. It is the exact same length as the heavy red wire, is bundled with it, and ends up in the same place near the solenoid. The lighter red behind the blue wire goes to the ignition coil. The blue wire goes to the instrument cluster. The lighter red wire under the blue is a signal wire that goes to the DC isolater/alt-power-distrbutor (proisocharge).

    One question I have is how does it get power in? No wire comes from the battery so I think it's got to be the brown? Could be the heavy red?



    Last edited by chuckt; 05-11-2015 at 07:34 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

  21. #1771
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Power in (red from solenoid?) to do the work, the other wire (brown ?) to solenoid turns on the starter & should only be energized when the key is in the start position. The wire to the coil is what makes it run. Not sure on the instrument cluster wire - maybe an "ignition on" light?

  22. #1772
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    I did some testing just now. Pretty sure the heavier red wire was connected to the same post as the starting cable so that's my power in. The brown is activated (hot) with the key in the start position and the others are hot as soon as the key moves to the ON position.

    I'm trying to figure this out because I want to get some overcurrent protection on all this. I probably will move the heavy red wire to a 15amp breaker in the box. Shouldn't that protect all the wires?
    Last edited by chuckt; 05-11-2015 at 08:53 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

  23. #1773
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I did some testing just now. Pretty sure the heavier red wire was connected to the same post as the starting cable so that's my power in. The brown is activated (hot) with the key in the start position and the others are hot as soon as the key moves to the ON position.

    I'm trying to figure this out because I want to get some overcurrent protection on all this. I probably will move the heavy red wire to a 15amp breaker in the box. Shouldn't that protect all the wires?
    Yes, it will. You could also use an in-line fuse:


    Available at any auto parts store.

  24. #1774
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    One of the wires should be hot when the battery and breakers are on, but the switch is off. When the switch is turned on, some other wire or wires should become hot. Those wires should go to the coil, the instrument panel and the starter solenoid. At ignition, but not start the coil and instrument wires should be hot, and at start the coil, ignition and solenoid wires should all be hot. .

    I would bet that, in the picture above, the solo red wires (with the yellow sleeve) is hot from either the battery or a breaker. The terminal with the red and blue wires is the ignition. The red probably goes to the coil, and the blue to the instrument panel; and the brown goes to the solenoid.

    You can test this without cranking the engine by disconnecting the big wire at the solenoid (wrap it in tape to jeep it from shorting, since it is hot all the time (through your 300 A fuse). Turn the ignition, and confirm that power goes to the solenoid when the start switch is activated.

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  25. #1775
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I did some testing just now. Pretty sure the heavier red wire was connected to the same post as the starting cable so that's my power in. The brown is activated (hot) with the key in the start position and the others are hot as soon as the key moves to the ON position.

    I'm trying to figure this out because I want to get some overcurrent protection on all this. I probably will move the heavy red wire to a 15amp breaker in the box. Shouldn't that protect all the wires?

    Yes, that would do the job. Seems odd that the START position would activate two wires. I'd figure the dual wire terminal would go to the coil and the instruments, and the single brown wire would go to the solenoid.

    You can test these with a test light or a volt meter if the battery is connected, or with an ohmmeter/continuity tester if the battery is disconnected.

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  26. #1776
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by Cogeniac View Post
    You can test this without cranking the engine by disconnecting the big wire at the solenoid (wrap it in tape to jeep it from shorting, since it is hot all the time (through your 300 A fuse). Turn the ignition, and confirm that power goes to the solenoid when the start switch is activated.

    S

    I'm a bit of a knucklehead about electrics but I'm guessing the engine won't start because it is still in New Jersey.

    To be clear, the brown is activated only when the key is all the way clockwise (cranking/starting position). It goes dead when the key is released to the ON position. Maybe I shouldn't be calling it the ON position. Looks like some diagrams call it the IGNITION position and the position all the way clockwise is the START position.
    Last edited by chuckt; 05-11-2015 at 10:27 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

  27. #1777
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I'm a bit of a knucklehead about electrics but I'm guessing the engine won't start because it is still in New Jersey.

    To be clear, the brown is activated only when the key is all the way clockwise (cranking/starting position). It goes dead when the key is released to the ON position. Maybe I shouldn't be calling it the ON position. Looks like some diagrams call it the IGNITION position and the position all the way clockwise is the START position.
    You've got Loooong ignition wires!

    Solenoid gets juice in the Start position only. Coil & Instruments get juice in both Ignition/Run positions. None get juice in the Off position. Since this is a gas engine, the key will operate things just like a car.

  28. #1778
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    I'm a bit of a knucklehead about electrics but I'm guessing the engine won't start because it is still in New Jersey.

    To be clear, the brown is activated only when the key is all the way clockwise (cranking/starting position). It goes dead when the key is released to the ON position. Maybe I shouldn't be calling it the ON position. Looks like some diagrams call it the IGNITION position and the position all the way clockwise is the START position.
    I think this is consistent with what I wrote.

    Key ON (not in the momentary start, but ON) should energize the coil and instrument wires (terminal with the red and blue wires). The brown wire should go hot only when the key is turned momentarily to the START position.

    terminology is important. I used to do a lot of electrical analysis of my old BMWs. They call the "ignition" but the "Start/Run" bus (energized when they key is ON and when the key is in START), as differentiated from the "Accessory" bus (not usually found on boats - energized when the key is in Accessory position), and the "start" bus (energized when they key is momentarily turned to the START position).

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  29. #1779
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Yes, that is consistent with what I'm seeing.

    And it's amazing what can be found on the internet. Here is a picture of the same starter and solenoid as mine and someone has conveniently labeled the posts. When I compare it to the pictures I do have, I'm certain the brown wire was on the terminal labeled "S." That's consistent with how it behaves.



    Here is my best pic of my solenoid and wiring before I took the engine out. The finger is pointing to the brown wire.

    Last edited by chuckt; 05-11-2015 at 12:09 PM.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    That looks right to me

  31. #1781
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckt View Post
    Yes, that is consistent with what I'm seeing.

    And it's amazing what can be found on the internet. Here is a picture of the same starter and solenoid as mine and someone has conveniently labeled the posts. When I compare it to the pictures I do have, I'm certain the brown wire was on the terminal labeled "S." That's consistent with how it behaves.


    It is a little odd that the solenoid wire changes from brown to red along the way. You might want to explore that and replace the wire...it is either spliced, or somebody put a fuse in it (which would be unnecessary).

    S
    Now is a good time!


    Steward of MAKOTO [WB Magazine #232], and Honored Member of the LPBC

  32. #1782
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    If you don't have one, you might consider installing a ballast resistor on the coil. If you do this you would need an additional lead from the "Start" post on the ignition switch to the coil. The lead that currently runs from the "ON" post to the coil would have the resistor in it. -- This provides the full 12V to the coil for starting, and then once the engine is running you are supplying only about 9V to the coil. This reduces wear & tear on the points and makes them last longer.

  33. #1783
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    I've mostly been messing with the topsides lately. I did go back and undo that first coat of semi-gloss in many places and address some of the more glaring surface unfairness issues that remained. Once again, I'm fairing with a epoxy fairing filler mix with some G/Flex mixed with regular epoxy. Adding the G/Flex increases the overall flexibility of the fairing concoction. G/Flex and fairing additive alone doesn't spread out as well as G/Flex mixed in with regular epoxy.

    My caulker is coming next Wednesday so I need to shift focus back to my seams. I need to reef them out some more and sand and prime the seams.

    Last edited by chuckt; 05-14-2015 at 09:11 AM.
    Chuck Thompson

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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Looking great! What topside paint did you go with?

  35. #1785
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    Default Re: Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

    Petit Easypoxy for the topsides. Semigloss. Really a well-behaved paint.
    Chuck Thompson

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