Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

[Reynard38]

Nice work! The next time I fly into Columbia I'll be looking for that shed.

[chuckt]

Ya'll may be convincing me. I fell off Emma Kate once and the ladder slid out from under me twice. All incidents were painful. I should have tied the ladder after the first incident. Some people are slow to learn. The Concordia does have a nice walkway around the cabin--unlike the Chris Craft whose walkway I think is merely decorative.

[Raka025]

I have a nice set of stairs up to my deck. You will like them!

[rbgarr]

PLEASE build a set of stairs... and even some staging around at mid topside level if you spend much time on deck. I know EXACTLY how far (and sudden) the fall is from Mary Ann's deck to the frozen gravel of winter. I don't remember SC dirt being much softer.

Leave room for a BBQ grill and cooler on the landing. It will attract helpers.

[JimConlin]

I've had a couple of broken-bone falls from boat ladders in the last ten years.
The next time I do much interior work on a boat, There will be a good-size 'mezzanine' at the top of the stairs for the aforesaid cooler, a bench and tools for the joinery and systems work.

[Garret]

I've had a couple of broken-bone falls from boat ladders in the last ten years.
The next time I do much interior work on a boat, There will be a good-size 'mezzanine' at the top of the stairs for the aforesaid cooler, a bench and tools for the joinery and systems work.

and tiki torches!

[BBSebens]

During the 3 years my FIL and I were working on our resto- project (fiberglass), we built a scaffold around the boat so that the deck was at about knee level. It made getting around much easier, as it afforded full standing headroom for an entire walk around the boat. How much headroom do you get if you stand on deck amidships?

Build. A. Staircase. It doesn't have to be complicated, or very large, but a solid, sturdy way up and down is worth its weight in saved medical bills.

[chuckt]

It is on my list. Including the tiki torches

[Larks]

And I wonder if 12 months from now, as I am replacing screws and after doing all the structural work, I will wish I had gone with the boat ready to sail. Oh well.

I think in twelve months time (or less going by the rate that you seem to get things done), "Mary Anne" will be very pleased that you hadn't!!!


Wonderful work on the shed Chuck, the louvres are indeed inspired.


And another vote for a set of stairs and staging platform. I'm used to getting up and down ladders and working on them as a builder, but the first (and only- touch wood) injury from using one was stepping off and into my boat when I misjudged and over stretched my step badly tearing a couple of tendons in/around my groin that took months to recover. A couple of years later and it still gives me grief if I try to stretch in a certain way.


The stairs were the first thing I made when I recovered and they have proven to be a great bonus ever since.


But hearty congratulations Chuck, I'm really looking forward to watching your progress on this stunning yacht here!!
cheers, Greg

[Woxbox]

I broke a rib using a stepladder to get on and off my boat last summer. It's very easy thing to do, I found.

[PaulC]

Does any one have any experience with a ramp with cleats?
[IMG][/IMG]

[rbgarr]

Does any one have any experience with a ramp with cleats?

I prefer to lay down asphalt shingling material. Any old stuff will do. If you have to use a hand dolly or anything on wheels it's easier.

[JimConlin]

I broke a rib using a stepladder to get on and off my boat last summer. It's very easy thing to do, I found.

Ditto. I lost sailing for last June and I still hurt.

Ramps are good when the slope varies, as for tide. I prefer stairs.

[Thad]

With staging trestles like these http://www.lynnladder.com/products/H...-TRESTLES.html you can stage around the hull and climb up easily to the staging level or the deck.

[chuckt]

Made some more progress. Almost done. Finish closing up the front, some trim pieces, and then paint. I really need to get the plastic around the hull. The weather has been dry for 3 weeks and she is really drying out.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Incredible work Chuck...I mean, just a fantastic effort all around!! Your wife is a saint!!!


Get yourself one of these signs and nail it to the outside of your shed to keep a steady flow of helpers coming back regular like!














Cheers!



Peter

[chuckt]

Peter--that won't help. Instead of a bunch of armchair quarterbacks I will have a bunch of armchair quarterbacks drinking my beer. I can't get any work out of the guys around here. Plenty of advice but no work.

My wife is awesome. And she helps when I have something I simply cannot do myself. She helped me move the mizzen mast into the boat shed yesterday. If only she could do finishing work like Tom Freeman's wife!

[Tom Freeman]

Thou shalt not covet another man's painter.

[Garret]

Peter--that won't help. Instead of a bunch of armchair quarterbacks I will have a bunch of armchair quarterbacks drinking my beer. I can't get any work out of the guys around here. Plenty of advice but no work.

My wife is awesome. And she helps when I have something I simply cannot do myself. She hoped me move the mizzen mast into the boat shed yesterday. If only she could do finishing work like Tom Freeman's wife!

Training, training..... Though I'm a fine one to talk as I'm "too damn picky". However - I'm not picky enough about cleaning. Hmmm... Ours is not to question why, eh?

[Garret]

Thou shalt not covet another man's painter.

6 minutes Tom - not bad!

[Sailor]

Or Tenner's "Admiral". I hear she finished off his bits right nice!

[chuckt]

Ya'll are too funny.

Tom must have some secret Jedi-like powers. He sensed a great disturbance in the force.

[Tom Freeman]

I've probably spent less time on here since the holidays than I have for any comparable length of time in the last 3 years. Work is getting in the way of my fun. But there are a few threads that I always check in on, and this one is near the top of my list. Just a good coincidence that you happened to post minutes before my lunch break at my desk.

[Concordia 33]

I came to this thread a little late, but as one Concordia Owner to another, welcome to the group. You'll definitely want to talk to Rob and Margo who have extensive experience on the restoration issue. I'm pretty sure they will tell you to take all your time and cost estimates and triple them and you will be closer to the final tally. Mary Ann ex Babe is a beautiful boat. Someone said she won Newport to Bermuda in 1980, but I think it was actually 1978. Incidentally Malay (the 1954 winner and also a Concordia) came in a close second that year. Best of luck, and post your progress here.

[chuckt]

Thanks 33 (Paul?). I will be posting my progress here. I think she did win or place well in one of those races. I recall seeing it listed in the "big book." I've been in extensive contact with Rob and visited Sarah last year.

[chuckt]

Have been musing about my lumber needs. Am currently leaning toward the following:

Douglas Fir laminated ribs using West epoxy. Following Rob's example on Amphora.

Either black locust or white oak for the floors, deadwood, and sternpost. Where necessary securing the sternpost pieces with resorcinol, bolts, and splines and the deadwood with resorcinol and the bolts. I can't decide between the oak or the locust. Both available. I lean toward the locust except there isn't as much feedback as I would like about its compatibility with epoxy or resorcinol. What feedback I have seen indicates there are no problems although I saw one post that described the locust as "oily."

[BBSebens]

For feedback on Locust, contact Jim Ledger, who is currently building catboat which will be planked with the stuff. Also, Bob Smalser is pretty much the reigning king of wood knowledge. He will be able to advise you.

[Raka025]

Owl's owner has been laminating locust for his sister-ribs with epoxy.

[chuckt]

Thanks Rob. Mr. Ledger is doing it as well as Mr. Sebens has pointed out. I've spent the last few days going through his entire thread! Whew. I'm off to go see if I can find some info on Owl.

[Raka025]

I don't think you will find anything on Owl, it comes first hand from a friend that cut up the strips for him.

[chuckt]

There is a mention of Owl's work in a recent Concordia newsletter and here: http://newframesfortheoldgirl.blogspot.com/

I've read it mentioned a few times, and seen it myself, that the laminated oak frames in these gals are failing. Like this one on Owl:



I had assumed this was resorcinol since that would have fit the time period but I'm not so sure.

[Garret]

I had assumed this was resorcinol since that would have fit the time period ...

That's what I've been told.

[Redeye]

Hmmmmm, oak and glue..

Just out of interest, how old are those frames?

[Raka025]

I stand corrected, good find Chuck.

Most likely the sisters were original which would make them installed in 1955.

[chuckt]

Ive heard the half frames were laminated. The additional half frames started in 1955 as Rob says (maybe later 1954?) and a number of older boats got them added. Hard to tell but a picture on p. 134 of the Meyer's Concordia book shows them and, to me, they don't look laminated. Anyway, the same book states that, beginning with hull # 70 in 1959, all the frames were laminated--half frames and full frames. The glue is not mentioned. Resorcinol is the only glue I've heard of being used then. And it was used on oak. Just do a google search of the forum and you will find pictures of huge oak laminations that Bob Smasler has posted.

[Raka025]

Mine were all delaminated as well but a poor example given 18 years of neglect. It also has every example of how to fixed broken frames! I will take pictures someday to document.

Looks nice in the building.

[chuckt]

Well, the boat shed is done. That will be all the news for a while. I think it will be May before I get started on Mary Ann. The Emma-Kate needs some attention.

Yup, That whole front wall will have to come off when it comes time to bring her out. Once she leaves, I don't think she will be ever be going back in that particular shed so I didn't want to invest in a door system.

[BBSebens]

[QUOTE=chuckt;3314223]Well, the boat shed is done. That will be all the news for a while. I think it will be May before I get started on Mary Ann. The Emma-Kate needs some attention.

Yup, That whole front wall will have to come off when it comes time to bring her out. Once she leaves, I don't think she will be ever be going back in that particular shed so I didn't want to invest in a door system.
[QUOTE]

This seems perfectly reasonable. Many boat sheds are built with the intent of de-construction upon finishing the project.

Don't forget to keep us posted on Mary Ann too. Any boat work is good boat work!

[chuckt]

The shed will stay and I'll put some equipment in there when Mary Ann comes out. My wife and I had many discussions about whether to do a more temporary bowshed but decided that for a thousand more we could have something permanent and that might look a bit better than a bowshed.

I should be ordering my timbers today from Duke at New England Naval Timbers. About 200 board feet of black locust in various sizes.

[Thad]

For floors in the way of the mast step you would do well to laminate or otherwise carry the top end of the floors up onto or with the ribs to strengthen the ring frame effect. Good work! Keep the ground damp below to limit drying.

[chuckt]

"ring frame effect"? Help me out with that phrase Thad. Thanks.

The guy that owns Polaris brought his floors all the way up to the floorboards. Seems like a good idea except I think air circulation is important. I may go a bit beefier than the original floors and absolutely will be laminating them for the extra strength. But I won't come all the way up to the floor boards and lose that air circulation. Mary Ann has as very lovely mast step modification. I will have to post a pic of it. Somone put in a much longer mast step than what she had originally.

I've noted two major historical issues with these boats. First, the frames cracking at the run of the bilge and, second, the mast step not being long enough and, relatedly, too much flexing going on due to the pressures of the mast. Many owners have elongated the mast step, added tie rod systems, added beefier floors, and added knees between some frames and the deck to tie it all in. I am guessing this is what you are getting at Thad?

[Mrleft8]

200bf?..... That's a small load. Sending it UPS?
I'll be interested to see what you think of the stock. I assume that Duke would send purpose selected lumber considering the cost of shipping, not just run of the mill...

[chuckt]

Yes--just talked to him and then shot him an email. He has some black locust that has been seasoning for a couple of years which I find very exciting. That's the problem you see. I can't find anyone local with already seasoned wood. I want to start work this Spring on this stuff--not wait years for the wood to season. Plus, if it has already seasoned this long Duke will cull out the wood that has not behaved well as it dried. I know some builders, maybe many, wouldn't worry so much about getting seasoned wood but it's what I want.

And Duke understands the stuff boatbuilders need. I'm comfortable I'm going to get stuff that is cut from the log correctly.

It will probably work out to be more than 200bf. I asked for bigger dimensions in his discretion because I'm assuming there is a lot of necessary wastage as the pieces are brought down to size.

I think 200bf of locust is about a 1000 pounds. Not sure what shipping is appropriate for that.

[Mrleft8]

200bf=(+-)16.5 Cubic ft.@ (+-)50Lbs per Cu ft.=835 Lbs (+-)..... Your UPS man will hate you forever!
I'm guessing common carrier like Yellow freight, or Estes....
I had 150bf of Sycamore delivered via UPS once...... It wasn't my idea, I swear! The UPS guy actually thought it was pretty funny.... It was separated into something like 15 different "packages"... I think they've changed the rules since then though.....

[Thad]

The ring frame as such is usually a metal structure around the inside of the hull that connects the mast step, chain plates, and partner. This has been done with Concordias, but the classic structure of floors, frames, hanging knees and strong beams is a less rigid approximation. Sailed hard, raced, mast head rig with genny, these overload the Concordia structure at the lower end. Carrying the floor up to the floorboards will limit circulation as you say, but carrying laminations or other bent timber across the top of the floor and up into the turn of the bilge goes a long way toward distributing the strains that tend to open the garboard and broad strake seams.

[chuckt]

Thanks Thad. I was thinking it meant something like that. I was thinking of essentially doing that by adding a tie system with bronze rods to the chainplates and then adding a laminated beam with knees under the cabin top to oppose the forces that would want to compress and bow up the deck.

[Reynard38]

Chuck I used west system for laminating the locust deck supports on the Coquina. No issues at all. It also steam bends amazingly well especially considering the strength of the wood.

[chuckt]

I looked at your work on that before deciding on the black locust. I was very impressed how much you bent those strips! It definitely helped convince me about this wood.

[chuckt]

Mary Ann has some laminated ribs already. The yard did it a very interesting way. I will try to describe it. I've never heard of it being done this way. The yardman took off the old frame and then laminated half the thickness in place using bolts through the screw holes, i.e., through the hull. Then he removed the half-laminated frame from the boat and finished the lamination on the bench. Then he cleaned up the frame and installed it with bigger screws.

The nice thing about this method is you get a laminated frame perfectly fitted to the place it is going. And, for places where you have a compound curve, laminating in place takes that into account as well. The downside is that it seems labor-intensive. Also, I think there would be problems getting the bolt holes to line up during the lamination. I picture this as a two-man job. One guy bending the goo-slathered strips in place and the outside guy drilling the holes through the lamination and then the inside guy slips a washer and nut on and tightens thing up. Sounds messy.

[Mrleft8]

Yeah.... That sounds messy, and difficult. I'd think that just holding the first half stack of lams in place against the hull could be done more effectively using spring boards and deadmen.....