Concordia Yawl #26 Restoration

[chuckt]

I have finally started some work. First, I needed access to the area under the aft deck. A little cockpit deconstruction was required. Takes a lot more time when one is trying to save, and not damage, the pieces.

I've decided to go one area at a time. Deconstruct, repair, and put back together. Then move to the next section. Mentally, its better for me not to have the whole boat torn up at once.




Now that I can see better, I can tell what works needs doing under here. Not sure what you call this wide frame in the back. I guess its a frame. Not the transom frame. But you can see two splits--the larger one goes all the way through. My guess would be it split due to age and screw placement along the grain. This should be interesting to replace and I think a laminated piece would do well here. You can also see the regular frame in front of it needs replacement or sistering.



This shot shows the rest of the frames on the port side that need work in this area. Less than I thought. On this side, only the frame in the foreground needs work. It is cracked in three places. You can see it has been sistered but the sister doesn't cross all the cracks and it isn't tied into the frame because of that crack through the frame rivet. I'm leaning toward replacing this one entirely. One frame on the starboard side in this area is similar.

You can see two rounds of repairs over the years here. There are some rather sloppy looking, but functional, laminated sisters and then some prettier ones. These repairs have addressed most of the cracked frames. I'd like to pull them all out and replace the frames but I don't think there is a structural reason to do it. It is fairly cramped in here so won't be the easiest place to work.

I see a reason to sister rather than completely replace--the bilge stringer is very much an impediment to getting the old frames out and new ones in.

[P.L.Lenihan]

Good approach toward handling the work in modules like that Chuck. Have you a clear overview of all the work expected to be done? For example; your deck.If you are seeing some work there,particularly with the margin planks and the sheer strake, you may be able to remove those now, thereby allowing you relatively free and easy access to the frame heads,which in turn may make your notion of laminating your frame replacements more rewarding.That is,it would be a cinch to slide the new frames down the opening created with the deck margin planks removed and under the bilge stringer.

Of course, this is just loose and easy talk from me. I'm not there.

Nevertheless, courage and perserverance with your restoration!

And thanks for the pictures too. Always interesting to see the guts of some of the finer boats out there.




Cheers!



Peter

[chuckt]

Thanks Peter. The deck is in great shape although it has been treated with some kind of Woolsey stain/varnish stuff. You can see the difference between the stain and the bare teak where I removed the side lockers in the cockpit. I don't mind the look but am leaning toward sanding it off and going back to the bare teak. But that task is a non-priority item.

I do have a good idea of all the work needed. I need to replace about six floors, 5 more frames (or sister), the sternpost, and the rudder. Surveyor recommended dropping the ballast but I don't know that it is necessary. I also need to install a tie sytem for the mast step and correct an upward bulge in the cabin roof.

The forefoot is in two pieces and has some checking right at the join. That will need some work though hopefully not replacement. Then we have to paint the hull--top and bottom and lots of varnish work. The spars appear to be in very good condition.


I forgot to mention how pleased I am with my moisture control system. The hull is coverd in plastic sheet that runs up to the deck. I ran a pipe to the shed and bought a $25 spigot timer and some soaker hose. It goes off once a day for about 8 minutes. Since I did that, the moisture under the hull stays at least 75% and is usually higher. The planks have actually taken up moisture and I can no longer see slivers of light through cracks.

[Garret]

Nice soaker setup!

I can second the modular approach. I have so much torn apart it's overwhelming.....

[BBSebens]

I have finally started some work. First, I needed access to the area under the aft deck. A little cockpit deconstruction was required. Takes a lot more time when one is trying to save, and not damage, the pieces.

I've decided to go one area at a time. Deconstruct, repair, and put back together. Then move to the next section. Mentally, its better for me not to have the whole boat torn up at once.




Now that I can see better, I can tell what works needs doing under here. Not sure what you call this wide frame in the back. I guess its a frame. Not the transom frame. But you can see two splits--the larger one goes all the way through. My guess would be it split due to age and screw placement along the grain. This should be interesting to replace and I think a laminated piece would do well here. You can also see the regular frame in front of it needs replacement or sistering.

All right, a mess! Its a bonafide boat project now. Glad to see headway being made.


Just as an observation, Irene, Yawl #103, has all original laminated frames and stem. Seems that Abeking and Rasmussen thought laminating was a good idea after all.

[chuckt]

A slow start indeed. Took me almost all weekend to get the split piece above out. Other than the split (caused by two screws) the wood looked really good so I'm in the process of cutting out the split and inserting a new piece with Gflex.

The following seems to work for me for screw removal. None of this is original. I have a sharpened pick that I whack into the center of the bung. Then push it to the side to break the bung. Then pick out the remaining bung. This only works if the bung was put in with varnish. It's real important to pick out all the bung and clean everything out of the slot of the screw. It doesn't seem to take much for the bit to "walk" out of the slot. Once it walks out of the slot, your screwed (pun intended). I've had a couple of broken screws already and one I had to take out with a Grabit. The broken ones aren't bad because I can just tap them out from inside the boat once the piece is removed.

I think I will put the new bungs back in with varnish and not epoxy. I like how easily they come out that way. I guess only the next guy would care as I should not live long enough to revisit any of these repairs barring some accident or repair failure .

Looks like the planking screws are # 14s. I think I read that's what originally went into the boats. As has been recommended to me, I will go up one size to #16.

I'm going with frearson screws where covered by bungs but will stick to flat oval head screws wherever the screw head shows just to keep the traditional look.





After that, I make sure the slot is clean. I got myself a Yankee brace and, man, these things are the only way to remove old screws! You can feel exactly how much pressure to apply. I found you can't just start turning the brace all the way. You have to feel the pressure and use the ratchet--short partial turns until the screw comes free.



I think my planking looks in really good shape. Happy about that. This first repair piece is about an inaccessible as it could be. Mary Ellen took a picture of me squeezing under the aft deck to get to it.

[chuckt]

Woo hoo. First repair completed. I removed the left portion of this frame (seems like it should have a different name) and cut out the cracks using the bandsaw and a multimaster for the right portion. Then I made a filler piece from white oak and epoxied it together (using GFlex) in situ. Its kinda dusty so hard to tell epoxy from wood in the photo. I put Dolphonite under the piece I removed. I'm pleased. I guess I could sand it better but not even the ducks or the fish will see this piece. I still have to replace all the screws. I put two of the best looking old screws back in just to hold the piece in place until my new screws arrive.





My white oak order is supposed to arrive today.

[chuckt]

I did not red lead this area. Doesn't appear it was ever painted. It does appear it was given some varnish. I have never read/heard of what, if anything, should be done as a coating in areas that don't really get any water. I've seen people varnish and obviously that is what was done here so I guess I will do the same.

What about the underside of a frame? Varnish? (Red lead where subject to water)

[rbgarr]

I had to snake myself into Mary Ann (now Ellen)'s lazarette without removing the aft end of the cockpit. I wasn't sure I'd ever be able to back out. Good thing I'm not claustrophobic.

[chuckt]

Dave--Did I say that? I did get in there at first without disassembling the cockpit and was hoping I could do the work without taking things apart. No way. I almost got stuck.

Wood arrive a few hours ago and I just got done stacking it. It reads 40% moisture. I was hoping for a bit drier. This might slow me down.

[Mrleft8]

Don't slow down. The wood will dry at the same rate whether you slow down or not, so you might as well forge ahead. Actually, it'll probably dry faster once you lop it down closer to size. Just coat it all well with wax, or shellac every time you stop to take a break.....

[chuckt]

Funny you said that. I have been sitting looking at that stack and those very thoughts were going through my head (except the wax/shellac idea--thanks). I do not have a circular saw that will cut even half way through the bigger pieces so I've been hitting Craigslist and Ebay looking for a deal. The big pieces are way to heavy to work with on my band or table saws. My tractor forks were at their max on some of those pieces.

Was planning to just buy a circular saw that had a decent depth and then cut from both sides but I see several reasonable deals on 16" beam saws that will cut in one pass.

[Mrleft8]

I recommend a bow saw....... And an 18 y/o kid with ideas about becoming Charles Atlas....
I did that with a big (42"X6"X120") piece of Black Walnut.... Except that I was the kid, and I was more like 28.... And it hurt a lot..... For several days.....

[chuckt]

No bow saws or 18yo kids on this project. Either are too much trouble for too little results.

A better shot of one of the big pieces. An online calculator says this piece is 1,400 pounds?! Seems a little high to me. Don't worry about the crack. I will cut the heart out (and sapwood) and be left with two pieces about 17" wide. This piece is for deadwood. I have a really nice piece for the sternpost that is well outside the heart.

[chuckt]

Okay--back in the boat. I was hoping to scarf a repair into this frame as pictured in the second picture. But the frame is cracked under the sheer clamp/beam shelf and where the bilge stringer comes up to meet them. A tough place to remove a frame and put a new one in. There are three rivets there as well. I got most of it out by cutting the rivets I could reach with the multi master and then splitting the frame with a chisel. My plan is to steam a new piece of oak and drive it up in there. Not sure it will work. I could shove laminations in there but I think that will be a mess and won't conform to the hull shape.

[chuckt]

Finally got the rivets and remaining old frame out of the way. I cannot decide whether to try to get a laminated frame in there or just steam and drive in a full-size frame. The stringer, shelf and clamp are very much in the way of an easy solution. I think what I will try tonight is to steam and drive in a 3/4" thick piece. If it conforms well to the hull shape, I will pull it out after it cools and contour the inside surface so that I can easily add laminations to the inside surface. Then put the frame back in and put a last laminated piece on to make the frame snug against the inside of the shelf, clamp and stringer. Since I can't get to the outside of the frame, I will have to put in lag bolts to secure the shelf, clamp and stronger to the frame. As I understand it, I can use stainless since the heads will remain exposed.

It was interesting to see some bedding compound under the old frame. Its the pink stuff (I assume). So the A&R guys didn't count on a perfect fit.

[Garret]

As I understand it, I can use stainless since the heads will remain exposed.

I wouldn't. The bolt inside could well be sealed off by the bedding compound so you'd get crevice corrosion in the shank of the bolt. I would definitely use bronze!

[chuckt]

My idea of steaming and then driving the piece into place did not work at all. I think the curve was simply too tight and I did not have room in the cramped space under the aft deck to hammer the piece into place. So I reverted to duplicating the frame on the bench using methods I've seen others do (pics below). Using a piece of Luan and smaller "pointer" pieces hot glued on. The pointers touch on the insed curve of the hull where the frame will go. Then I transferred the pattern this creates to a piece of plywood mounted on the wall of my shop/garage.

The strange contraption in the pic below is my very humble steamer. To create steam I use a wallpaper remover steamer connected to a piece of PVC pipe. The pipe semi-melted after a while so I will be making a wood box before my next steaming. I steamed a 3/4 piece and then will laminate other pieces to it to create the 2" thickness needed. I choose to laminate because it is just much less likely to crack over time.

Also since my last post, I ripped my big timbers down the middle and cut some sapwood off. My big, outside-of-heart, piece (for the sternpost) is in the foreground of the pic. I plan on turning the big piece over this every few weeks just to try to prevent any warping and to fill any checks with Dolphonite. So far, the timbers appear to be drying well--no warping or severe checking. The big 16" Makita I found on Craig's list finally came. It worked much better than I expected. I expected it to be a bit scary to use but it wasn't. You just have to have a firm grip on it when you first start it.



(The bit of coat hanger was used as one pointer because it had to go through a small hole in the bilge stringer).



Transferring the curve to the wall.









I stupidly placed the dogs on the outside curve so, of course, the curve is wrong once the wood was clamped. So I will have to re-steam the big piece and get it on the correct curve.

[chuckt]

This must be boring stuff for you guys.

Anybody got more pics of Concordias in the water?

I've been pondering putting her in Lake Murray for the first year so I can get my wife acclimated to sailing in a safe and low-stress environment. There is no travelift on the Lake so my options are: (1) find a really big trailer I can ramp launch her with (2) hire a crane; or (3) build a cradle she can be pushed in on. Probably hire a crane. It would have to be big I think since he is going to have to swing her out a ways to get to 6' water.

[Garret]

No - not boring at all!!!

Not sure about trailers your way - but in the NE, most boat haulers have detachable trailers (Brownell's usually) that they can use to launch at a ramp. My hauler has ramp launched (with his 3 axle trailer) a 71' schooner for Paul Rollins - so the size isn't the issue - finding a deep enough ramp is.

[chuckt]

There is a guy nearby with a hydraulic. I'll touch base with him and see if we can use it to ramp launch. The sailing club on the lake has a very steep ramp for launching J24s.

Here is the lamination happening. As slippery as a greased pig! My laminating dogs flexed a bit so I need to make some more out of stronger metal. I've got some heavy 2" L beam I can cut up for that. I was just looking at some Rockport Marine pics of their laminating jigs and the way they did their dogs gave me a good idea on a better way to make them. (Cutting the Oak into thinner strips really accelerated the drying. My timbers still measure 35% on a freshly cut face whereas these pieces, after a couple of weeks are 15% and less).



I hot glued the pieces of the old frame back together to get the angles off of it. I was surprised that the angle was the same from the floor end of the frame all the way up to the end near the shelf clamp.




So, I just set my bandsaw table at this angle and cut the bevel on the new frame. (I cleaned the frame up in the planer).




I'm pretty pleased with how strong this new frame seems. There is a huge difference between new oak and 60 year old oak. The old stuff is just clearly dried out and weaker. I wonder what the wood loses over time that makes it weak?

[Mrleft8]

It loses "Lignin". I think... Kind of like losing bone density as a person ages. It's the stuff that binds the molecules together but also allows for a degree of flexibility.

[chuckt]

Woo hoo! Second frame repaired. I can't believe how nicely it fit. I aint bragging mind you--I'm a hack and I was fairly convinced it wouldn't fit worth a dang. But it went in great and when I tightened the screws in the planking, some of my bedding compound "squeezed" out. I was tickled. You pros are probably so used to your stuff fitting perfect that you expect it.

I still need to screw the beam shelf, bilge stringer and sheer clamp to the frame. I had to repair some of my butchery with epoxy first.

[Thad]

Amazing what you can do if you do it. Good for you and #26.

[Champagne]

Nice work Chuck!

Brgds

Kim

[chuckt]

Thanks Kim and Thad.

[Mrleft8]

Lookin' good Chuck!
Simple plywood "L"s (I use Baltic Birch/Euro-ply/Apple-ply etc.) work very nicely for "clamping dogs". Very cheap, very adaptable (You can conceivably build in your bevels before laminating), and they burn nicely when you're done with them, so no pile of rusty metal bits to trip over..... (Or does that only happen in my shop?..... )

[Matti]

This must be boring stuff for you guys.

Anybody got more pics of Concordias in the water?

I've been pondering putting her in Lake Murray for the first year so I can get my wife acclimated to sailing in a safe and low-stress environment. There is no travelift on the Lake so my options are: (1) find a really big trailer I can ramp launch her with (2) hire a crane; or (3) build a cradle she can be pushed in on. Probably hire a crane. It would have to be big I think since he is going to have to swing her out a ways to get to 6' water.

I made that, it took couple of days to weld, total a week, had to rip off the truck.

http://www.freewebs.com/maryii/apps/...otoid=99325999

Annual launching is easy and dont need much money, only 15 km road to ramp, Mary III is gartside 109, 7,5 tons

https://picasaweb.google.com/1151198...88623202768370

Second summer to acclimate my wife , I ll hope it go better and better

[Reynard38]

Chuck looks like a great start. Still gotta get over and have a look.
I was at the Manchester MA yacht club yesterday looking at a 30' Hinckley (yeah fiberglass) and saw this motor by....



Owl. Absolutely stunning!

[chuckt]

That's an awesome launch vehicle you had their Matti. Far beyond my poor skills to make.

Owl looks great. It's some kind of omen for you I think Reynard. And come look at Mary Ellen any time. She's a bit of a mess right now though.

[chuckt]

Here's the next two to get fixed. I'm still under the aft deck. There is a mystery here. Look at the frame on the top. It looks like there was a sister there. It has holes but the sister is gone and there were no screws! The holes are bunged on the outside. Only thing I can figure is that a sister was fitted, holes drilled, and someone forgot to put the screws in. I'm going to put in a new sister (pictured in the bottom photo).

The next frame has a sister, albeit a rather ugly one. I have removed that sister and will be replacing the whole frame. Its cracked under the bilge stringer and the existing sister doesn't protect that crack.

There are a bunch of sisters in the stern here that are quite unattractive. They weren't beveled. Someone just did a lamination in place. Because it isn't beveled, each one is "splayed" forward (and away from the frame) as it follows the curve of the hull upward. I would like to pull them all out and replace with what is shown in the second picture. But some of them are still functional, i.,e., they protect a single crack. I am pulling any where the frame has more than one crack. I figure such a frame is too compromised for just a sister.

[chuckt]

No one has commented on my choice to laminate oak. I know there is a a lot of voices here that would question it. By now, however, there has been a fair amount of experience doing this. Rockport Marine did it extensively on the Bolero restoration using GFlex. And West has reported excellent results with their tests. So I'm a convert. I'm using Gflex as well. The laminations get wiped down with alcohol before glue-up. Why risk it? Well, I like oak for all the reasons everyone (almost everyone) else likes it. Its what I have a lot of on hand. And its what is original to the boat. I'm laminating instead of just bending in a whole piece because a laminated frame (unlike an unlaminated one) is very unlikely to crack over time. And that is how Abeking & Rasmussen and Concordia Boats repairs these frames.

Mind you--epoxy goes on the laminations only. I'm not gluing my frames on the hull or putting epoxy on my planking or anything like that.

[Redeye]

Chuck,

How thick are those oak laminations? I'm thinking of using laminated Oak floors and deciding between fewer but thicker laminae thicker (and steaming them first) or laminating thiner strips. I need about 3 inches molded to finish with.

Nice work btw, good to see progress

[chuckt]

Hey R. The thickness varies. From 1/4" up to 3/4 inch. I have been steam bending and then glueing. I think it makes things easier. If you don't steam bend first, I think 1/4" is about as thick as you can go. That depends on the severity of the curve of course.

[Redeye]

That's about what I guessed. My curve is an 800mm radius. constant throughout that part of the bilge, and the floors are nearly three metres long, across the U shape hull. I'm leaning towards using thicker laminae - means less waste and less glue.
Did you consider using resorcinol for your laminating of oak?

[chuckt]

I would use resorcinol for underwater parts, e.g., rudder. But it is not very good for gap-filling. As far as I know, it has no advantage over GFlex except a longer track record with oak. The gap-filling ability of GFlex is why I prefer it.

[chuckt]

So freakin hot. Can't get anything done. Another 100+ day.

[Garret]

No one has commented on my choice to laminate oak. I know there is a a lot of voices here that would question it. By now, however, there has been a fair amount of experience doing this. Rockport Marine did it extensively on the Bolero restoration using GFlex. And West has reported excellent results with their tests. So I'm a convert. I'm using Gflex as well. The laminations get wiped down with alcohol before glue-up. Why risk it? Well, I like oak for all the reasons everyone (almost everyone) else likes it. Its what I have a lot of on hand. And its what is original to the boat. I'm laminating instead of just bending in a whole piece because a laminated frame (unlike an unlaminated one) is very unlikely to crack over time. And that is how Abeking & Rasmussen and Concordia Boats repairs these frames.

Mind you--epoxy goes on the laminations only. I'm not gluing my frames on the hull or putting epoxy on my planking or anything like that.

Hi Chuck -

I think I mentioned (but maybe not?) that I have done all of Neoga's frame repairs & sisters with laminated 1/4" oak glued with West. There are 15+ year old sisters done that way that look as good as new - except that the guy who did them was a slob & didn't clean up the drips....

My favorite find was a sister added (30 years ago?) way aft made from an oak handrail/baluster - still with the original dark stain. I put in a proper sister, but left it there just to make a future owner chuckle.

[chuckt]

I forgot you said that--excellent. That's funny about the handrail. I will have to take a good pic of the sister I just removed. It is pretty hideous. The above pictures dont do it justice.

[BBSebens]

Pictures never do anything justice. Pictures are worth a thousand words, but theres nothing like seeing it with your own two eyes.

Looking great Chuck. Keep it up.

[auscruisertom]

What a beautiful looking boat,always have had a soft spot for the Concordia since I sailed with and on" Lorelei "between the Marqueses and Morea. The year was 1983 and I always remember Clayton Anderson anchoring hastily next to us in Morea diving overboard and filling several sprung planks around the mast step with underwater epoxy. It is annyones guess what timber was used on that repair once hauled out in Tahiti. Cheers Tom

[Tom Freeman]

So freakin hot. Can't get anything done. Another 100+ day.

Maybe this is one of the secrets of why there are so many great wooden boats in the PNW. The high temp was about 75. We did have some late morning showers which made it a less than perfect varnishing day. Otherwise, not bad. I would go on a 3-state killing spree if I had to work in a boat shed when it was 100 outside. G'luck.

[Matti]

So freakin hot. Can't get anything done. Another 100+ day.

Have you try sprinkler on your roof? Evaporation "eats" heat!
When I wash carpets with pressure washer, I get chilly even it is hot day.
I think you need only very light spray.
Matti

[chuckt]

Thanks guys. I was goign to wait to reply until I had some pics but I haven't put any new bits back in yet. I've been removing and replicating the past week. There certianly are some gorgeous woodenboats near you Tom and basically none here.

Sprinkler on the roof might not be a bad idea. I added insulation to the roof and that definitely helps. I also draped the cockpit in plastic and put a little room air conditioner up there. It definitley looks like some redneck engineering but it makes working in the boat bearable. Unfortunately, a lot of the work occurs outside the boat.

That's an interesting story Aussie Tom. I will have to look up that boat--not sure which one she is.

Thanks BB--I'm pluggin away

[chuckt]

I think I can just sister this frame. What do you guys think?



I'm kidding of course. "Mary Ellen" has done the Bermuda race at least twice and got used hard from what I've heard. This frame is evidence of that.

What do you think of these screws? They look pretty good to me. I'm not putting them back in but they look surprisingly in good shape. Of course, these come from from just below the waterline. The screws lower down may look worse. I'd really like to know when and if she was refastened and where she had new planks.



Here is a pic of the first new floor I've made. My hand power planer made a nice gouge you will see. Ticks me off put it doesn't really matter. I was pleased this floor fits perfectly. I'm waiting on some new screws to arrive to put it back in. My daughter worked at the local West Marine store this Summer and she has bought me some stuff at an awesome discount. Many things are almost half off for employees. For instance, she got some Gflex for me for about $49. Normal price is $80. Unfortunately for me, she turned in her notice in anticipation of returning to school in a few weeks.

[Tom Freeman]

I'd reuse those fasteners in a heartbeat.

[chuckt]

Tom--they certainly look good enough to me. Is it possible to have deterioration that can't be seen? I even cut a couple in half. The bronze looks great.

[Tom Freeman]

You'll have to wait for some of the old dogs on here to answer the question about unseen deterioration. Our policy was that if it looked good and the slot was solid enough to drive, then we put it back if it came from above the waterline.

[Garret]

You'll have to wait for some of the old dogs on here to answer the question about unseen deterioration. Our policy was that if it looked good and the slot was solid enough to drive, then we put it back if it came from above the waterline.

Key phrase! I'd add "and goes back in above the waterline" - but I'm a wimp.

[chuckt]

Two new floors, a new sister frame (in the upper left of this picture) and three new frames. I still need to bolt the frames to the floors and refasten the planking to these new frames but this weekend I will be done with the area under the aft deck. Engine removal will be next so I can repair the frames and floors under and behind the engine.