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Thread: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    You need to drill a vent hole.

    What's making the texture on the side of the lead pour?
    Beat me to it !

    Jim, how about a bit of scrap aluminium sheet to line the mould ? If you pour just melted (not too hot) and vented as JL suggests it will come out well.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Well, third time was the charm on the ballast. I had heat and torch issues on try number two, and on reflection Stephane, you are right I would want a full sized casting to be right the first time but would probably do what could be done to repair a bad one rather than have to have a do over. On the plus side having a couple do overs in this case turn out pretty well. The casting looks nice and I'm pleased with the way it turn out, I very much appreciated the advice to add a vent hole and will need to remember that in the future.



    I also spent some time fairing in the stem/keel/stern post.



    And I've started cutting out the station molds. The outside line is the lofted line to the outside of the planking, the inside line being the actual station mold. It took a while to get my head around the idea of backing out the planking.



    Here's Sta. 6 cut out.



    I think it'll work.
    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I'm going to enjoy this Jim, it will be fun watching the planking progress .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    looking forward to the next update!
    http://www.peacefuljourney.ca/
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  5. #40
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I'm glad that you are a little ways ahead of me with your project. It is fun to watch and learn.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'm going to enjoy this Jim, it will be fun watching the planking progress.
    The planking process should be 'interesting' Peter. Planking is not something I've had a lot of practice with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Freeman View Post
    I'm glad that you are a little ways ahead of me with your project. It is fun to watch and learn.
    I'm glad you think so Tom, I'm sorta kinda hoping you'll breeze right past me.


    When picking out the stations to cut the molds, I noticed that I had introduced a fairly significant error where the sections flow into the keel. The keel is straight sided from stations 10 to 4 and but I brought the curve of the sections to the bottom of the keel instead of to the rabbit line. Consequently, the stations were significantly wider at the rabbit then reality would allow for. Fortunately, it was a simple task to refair the bottom sections and check that diagonal 1 still worked.

    If you look close you can see where the old line was outside of the bottom most nails.


    Here is the growing pile of station molds.



    And the assembly.





    Next up on the to-do list, is to cut the rabbit, fit the ballast, and set up the molds on the backbone structure.

    Or something like that.
    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    If you are planning to build full size one day Jim you will find this a most valuable exercise. Making your errors and doing your learning at 12 to 1 scale is relatively painless and certainly cheap !

    Will you be using scale bent frames ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    If you are planning to build full size one day Jim you will find this a most valuable exercise. Making your errors and doing your learning at 12 to 1 scale is relatively painless and certainly cheap !

    Will you be using scale bent frames ?
    That's the idea Peter. I have some left over yellow cedar blanks from the framing of the SOF rowboat I built last winter. It should be just the thing for frames bent to scale. The framing is supposed to be 1 1/8" square. That works out to about 1/8th of an inch square in scale. The AYC I have is superb and should work at that scale with out problems. I will need to set up a small steam box though.

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    I will need to set up a small steam box though.

    Jim
    The tiny hoses are going to be fun !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    The tiny hoses are going to be fun !

    .
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Really enjoying this, nice work... I was dreaming of steam bent frames for it, but thought I was too extreme!

    That will be nice to see
    http://www.peacefuljourney.ca/
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  12. #47
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Can there be such a thing as too extreme Stephane?

    What I'm having a hard time with at the moment is trying to decide whether or not now is the time to attach the ballast, and how am I going to find the room to put in the wee keel bolts through the floors.

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Can there be such a thing as too extreme Stephane?
    Well does making it blind folded would be too extreme?

    I think you may cheat a bit for the ballast and do a old fashion way with the bolt going only into the keel... Drilling into the lead and gluing some small rod into that like if the bolt were cast in...

    Just a idea, as this is small to work with.
    http://www.peacefuljourney.ca/
    BEWARE: I am a native french speaker

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    If I remember right that boat is drawn with the ballast bolts going up through the keel but not through floors. It would certainly be easier to do that on a small scale.

    I have long loved Fore an' Aft and was pretty set on building it as the "big boat" to sail away on. I am now slowly and somewhat grudgingly moving to Gartside's 30' cutter as a more refined iteration of the same thing. Someday... Someday. But I will very much enjoy watching this little boat come together. Maybe it will sway me back the other way.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Just drifting the ballast to the keel sounds like a workable solution. Thanks for the suggestion.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I bought a model of the Scottish Maid once but could get my head around the planking process. it sits unfinished in a wooden chest.
    Good thread.
    My take is that if you poke someone with a sharp stick they'll get annoyed, if you smile and shake their hand they will be your friends.

    John Welsford

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I'm still not sure if I will steam bend frames or just cut formers out of light plywood for our project. If I do steam bend, I am thinking that Jessica's vegetable steamer on the stove will work just fine. I haven't told her about this yet.
    She requires of her owner a custodial obligation and responsibility that has absolutely nothing to do with financial return on investment or annual cost of maintaining and operating her.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    That might be a plan best kept to yourself Tom. Bend in the frames, steam bending is fun.

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Don't forget to back out the planking Jim .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    If I remember right that boat is drawn with the ballast bolts going up through the keel but not through floors. It would certainly be easier to do that on a small scale.

    I have long loved Fore an' Aft and was pretty set on building it as the "big boat" to sail away on. I am now slowly and somewhat grudgingly moving to Gartside's 30' cutter as a more refined iteration of the same thing. Someday... Someday. But I will very much enjoy watching this little boat come together. Maybe it will sway me back the other way.
    I went back and looked at the plans again, and you were right about the keel boats only going through the keel but not the floors Madison.

    Fore An' Aft is a lovely boat and you're already building the Maid, so all the mysteries of building an Atkin cutter will have been revealed should you decide to go with the next size up.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    I bought a model of the Scottish Maid once but could get my head around the planking process. it sits unfinished in a wooden chest.
    Good thread.
    Thanks Gary, and I certainly have a couple unfinished projects hiding in various places. A half finished giant scale(whatever that is) F-4U Corsair springs to mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Don't forget to back out the planking Jim .
    Now there's something that will require consideration!

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post

    Now there's something that will require consideration!

    Jim
    120grit ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I remember seeing Fore An' Aft in the '60's when it visited Kingsville cruising in Company with the Fenwick Williams Yawl now known as Annie. My Father and olde brother were very impressed with Fore An' Aft. I was completely enamoured with the yawl.
    I am still impressed with both.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I see there is a Fore An' Aft currently for sale on the east coast. It'd be mighty tempting if it wasn't 4500 miles or so away and on the wrong coast.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    120grit ?
    One of these only smaller.

    htt
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I managed to spent a few hours this weekend and got the rabbit cut in the stem and keel. I tried to take some decent pictures but it seems to be a hard detail to see. I was rather pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to pick the bearding line off the lofting with a little bit of plank stock, a pencil, and the dividers. I've seen it explained a couple of times and I've always been left with an, "I get it I guess", sort of feeling.

    Anyway, a few pictures. Since I didn't have any tiny rabbet planes on hand it was a chisel work.





    Checking the depth of the rabbet with a bit of plank thickness stock.





    It's not as pretty as I had hoped for, but not terrible either.



    Now it's time to get that ballast on.

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I can see the advantages of building a model of any boat prior to the full size job Jim .

    BTW , what timber is the backbone on your model? I'm not very good on US timbers .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Except for the knee at the stem the whole of the back bone is oak. I didn't have a piece of oak wide enough for the knee so that is a nice scrap of old grow fir, or oregon if you prefer.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Except for the knee at the stem the whole of the back bone is oak. I didn't have a piece of oak wide enough for the knee so that is a nice scrap of old grow fir, or oregon if you prefer.
    I love it when Americans talk Australian !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Don't worry about the rabbet, with the red lead putty before the planking and some good cotton caulking she will be tight at sea
    http://www.peacefuljourney.ca/
    BEWARE: I am a native french speaker

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    It's difficult to carve fine detail in White Oak, it's tough and stringy. Doug Fir is another wood with carving issues, the different densities between the early and latewood make smooth carving difficult. They both make good keels, but on a model scale the effect of the grain becomes magnified.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Is this the solution?



    Isn't it cute...

    Alex

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    I love Lee Valley. They opened one near you Alex just a couple of years ago didn't they? There's been one here ever since before I got here. I love that place.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Jelutong is one of the better model making and pattern making timbers, a very fine and indiscernible grain.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    On steaming model planks/frames- I normally soak them in water for about a half hour, wrap them in a wet paper towel, and microwave for about 15-20 seconds. That's using Basswood. Something like boxwood or ebony is a different animal.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Atkin Fore An' Aft Cutter Model

    Alright, so it was a bit of a two steps back sort of day. After thinking it over a bit I decided I didn't like the way things were going with the current backbone. Aside from the rabbet not being all I'd hoped for, I realized that an error I'd made in the stern post was going to give no end of trouble later if I didn't address it now and I wanted the stem to be left a little long so I could have the option of adjusting the sheer.

    There's never time to do it right, there's always time to do it over, as my Dad is fond of telling me.



    This time I'm using Alaskan Yellow Cedar and I cut a bit of rabbet in the new keel before going forward. It's very fine grained an cut very nicely.

    The problem at the stern post was that I took a bit too much where the transom goes and then cut the rabbet to the lower mark.



    Here's the stem, the bottom mark on the new stem is where the old one ended.



    I didn't really want to start over, but I think it will be for the best going forward. I sure am glad I'm not wasting great big buckets full of money on a full sized version just yet.

    Jim
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

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