Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 39

Thread: What is "Oregon Pine?"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Summer: Oregon, Winter: California
    Posts
    13

    Default What is "Oregon Pine?"

    I have seen a few schooners advertised in Europe with masts and spars made from "Oregon pine". I am from Oregon and studied forestry at Oregon State in the 1970s and have never heard of "Oregon pine". We do have many species of pine in Oregon, but they tend to have their own names like "Ponderosa pine" or "Lodgepole pine". And our best softwood for masts and spars would be either Sitka spruce (very hard to come by) or Douglas fir. Considering that these are large boats and that it is the most common timber for masts on large schooners, I've been guessing that they really mean Douglas fir. Am I right?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Muncy, PA, USA
    Posts
    1,873

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    It's Brit for DF. Rick

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    11,190

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Oregon Pine is Euro speak for Douglas Fir, Pseudotsuga menziesii.

    Prior to its getting parked under its own genus, Pseudotsuga (literally, "false hemlock") back in 1867, it was at various times parked under all of the following genera: Pinus (pines), Picea (spruces), Abies (true firs), Tsuga (true hemlocks), and Sequoia (redwoods).

    It's a rather confusing tree.

    It's not alone, though. Alaskan Yellow Cedar isn't a cedar at all, it's a cypress, and a nomad like Douglas Fir. It used to be Cupressus nootkatensis, then it was moved to Chamaecyparis, then in 2002 it got its own brand new genus, Xanthocyparis, and finally in 2004, it got moved to Callitropsis, on the ground that Xanthocypariswas identical to Callitropsis (first published in 1864, though subsequently ignored.). Xanthocyparis has been deprecated and made a synonym for Callitropsis.

    Port Orford Cedar, Chamaecyparis lawsoniana, and Western Red Cedar, Thuja plicata, aren't cedars either. They are both cypresses, but to date have been rather sedentary WRT to their assignment of genus.

    [There's a quiz later ]
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    58,241

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Just so. Douglas fir.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mainland, NZ
    Posts
    24,207

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    There's a fair bit of DF in this house I'm in, built in 1929. Because NZ has DF plantations that grow a timberlike substance that is called Oregon the old imported stuff is refered to as....wait for it......Canadian Oregon.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wow-Ming
    Posts
    18,701

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    In Australia and New Zealand they refer to Douglas Fir as "Oregon." I didn't know that was true in England.

    Quite a few of the classic yachts had masts and spars of "Oregon," despite the weight.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    11,190

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    There's a fair bit of DF in this house I'm in, built in 1929. Because NZ has DF plantations that grow a timberlike substance that is called Oregon the old imported stuff is refered to as....wait for it......Canadian Oregon.
    My head hurts
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    28,862

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    There's a fair bit of DF in this house I'm in, built in 1929. Because NZ has DF plantations that grow a timberlike substance that is called Oregon the old imported stuff is refered to as....wait for it......Canadian Oregon.
    And our house, 1932, was framed in DF as well, except it was sourced a lot closer to Oregon, I'm sure. Tough to drive a nail into these days. Good stuff!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brookings, Oregon
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Growing up in South Africa my Dads business office was located in what had previously been a residence in the old part of town ..the house was built around 1900. I remember hearing about the Oregon Pine floors. Yep DF.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    New York, NY USA
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Not pine, not from Oregon. Not even fir.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,445

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    And our house, 1932, was framed in DF as well, except it was sourced a lot closer to Oregon, I'm sure. Tough to drive a nail into these days. Good stuff!
    You need Australian nails then, it's a softwood here.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    58,241

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You need Australian nails then, it's a softwood here.
    Naaahhh... he just needs Oregon nails and an Oregon carpenter. The Washington versions of each tend toward the 'soft' end of the spectrum <G>

    Seriously, though -- As with many conifers... douglas fir tends to harden dramatically as it ages thru the decades. Makes it mighty tough to put new nails in or take old nails out. Predrilling eventually becomes near-mandatory.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sydney OZ.
    Posts
    13,553

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    DF aka "oregon" is referred to here by older shippies as Irish Pine aka "O'Regan".

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,951

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    "There's a fair bit of DF in this house I'm in, built in 1929. Because NZ has DF plantations that grow a timberlike substance that is called Oregon the old imported stuff is refered to as....wait for it......Canadian Oregon."

    Would that be the one with the red maple leaf?? / Jim

  15. #15

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Oregon Pine is Euro speak for Douglas Fir, Pseudotsuga menziesii.
    I work with Douglas Fir a lot and like it! It has the great advantage of being pretty strong, and quite cheap in my vicinity. I have developed the habit of visiting my local lumber store 'big orange building' and picking through the top layers of their piles of 2x6's for the top 2% of quality wood. I take this home and give is a good drying in the rafters of my shop for later use.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    16,825

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    I learned that Oregon pine was vert slow growth df.north side of the hill and so on

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    58,241

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I learned that Oregon pine was vert slow growth df.north side of the hill and so on
    Not that I know of. The USFS does make a distinction between 'coastal' - meaning, as I recall, W. of the Cascades in OR, WA, & BC... and the less desirable 'inland'. But they don't use the 'Oregon Pine' appellation at all, AFIK. Seanz says, in OZ and New Zealand... where the term is common... there is a distinction drawn between local (plantation grown, and inferior) douglas fir, and df imported from the Pacific NW (called, apparently 'Canadian Oregon Pine' - that's a new one on me).
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wow-Ming
    Posts
    18,701

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Some conifer species grow best on shaded northerly aspects (southerly in NZ). In the US Rockies, spruces and true firs (also Douglas fir) are found on shadier, moister slopes, and grow more slowly, while lodgepole pine (contorta) and ponderosa pine occupy sunnier and more open sites, with 5-needled pines (whitebark, limber, bristlecone) on exposed, rocky ridgecrests.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mainland, NZ
    Posts
    24,207

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Not that I know of. The USFS does make a distinction between 'coastal' - meaning, as I recall, W. of the Cascades in OR, WA, & BC... and the less desirable 'inland'. But they don't use the 'Oregon Pine' appellation at all, AFIK. Seanz says, in OZ and New Zealand... where the term is common... there is a distinction drawn between local (plantation grown, and inferior) douglas fir, and df imported from the Pacific NW (called, apparently 'Canadian Oregon Pine' - that's a new one on me).
    The difference in the amount of grains in the floorboards compared to the sticks I've got in the garage (waiting to be a bench) is amazing.
    Not recognizable as the same species.....but it is.

    I should take some pics and make the effort to get a new photo account.
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    58,241

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    The difference in the amount of grains in the floorboards compared to the sticks I've got in the garage (waiting to be a bench) is amazing.
    Not recognizable as the same species.....but it is.

    I should take some pics and make the effort to get a new photo account.
    Yes, most plantation-grown trees - of any species - are optimized for fast growth/harvest in order to maximize cash flow and ROI. Strength, beauty, and working characteristics just don't factor in. The differences are often so stark as to nearly represent two different species. Teak is a good example. One has to be quite careful when specifying teak. Plantation grown, for the most part, is far inferior - at least in my experience.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Seabeck, WA
    Posts
    9,745

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Except if you examine USDA mechanical property tables from the late 1930's, when all the Douglas Fir was tight-ringed old-growth...and compare them to current strength tables for 4-8 rpi plantation wood, you will find any differences in strength, bending, etc to be negligible.

    Where they differ is in workability, cosmetics, and probably rot resistance, as more latewood means more rot-resisting extractives.

    Further, there are still plenty of tight-ringed trees being harvested. Those grown in partial shade or on north-facing slopes. You only have to pick through the stacks to find them.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Nashville TN
    Posts
    28,862

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You need Australian nails then, it's a softwood here.
    I am not trading, then! It started out as softwood, I'm sure!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    21,130

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    AKA Columbian Pine.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oregon Coast
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerregis View Post
    You betcha! Just remember that JJ Astor was at the mouth of the Columbia, while the rest was "Canadien". Anyone ever consider where the The "Dalles" name came from? Just for fun mes amis americans.
    Calling it Canadian Oregon really isn't far fetched. Hudson Bay's west coast operation was headquartered in what is now Vancouver, Washington, until the mid 1800's. The area or what is now Washington, Oregon, Idaho and a bit more was known as the Oregon Territory. So the idea of the tall timber being called "Canadian Oregon" isn't a stretch.

    History and geography exams follow the Dendrology quiz given by Nicholas at 1. Bring a sharp pencil and graph paper.
    John
    ----
    To err is human. To arr is pirate.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    57,403

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    There is a marked difference between tress grown in warmer climes and cold growth timber no matter what the species. Oak grows at 3 times the rate here that it does in most of europe and the timber is quite different as has been remarked before.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,977

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    And our house, 1932, was framed in DF as well, except it was sourced a lot closer to Oregon, I'm sure. Tough to drive a nail into these days. Good stuff!
    What !!!! It's like sponge rubber , as soft as , as butter .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,328

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    And our house, 1932, was framed in DF as well, except it was sourced a lot closer to Oregon, I'm sure. Tough to drive a nail into these days. Good stuff!

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Naaahhh... he just needs Oregon nails and an Oregon carpenter. The Washington versions of each tend toward the 'soft' end of the spectrum <G>
    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post


    Seriously, though -- As with many conifers... douglas fir tends to harden dramatically as it ages thru the decades. Makes it mighty tough to put new nails in or take old nails out. Predrilling eventually becomes near-mandatory.



    I suspect you guys don't know what "tough to drive a nail into" actually is.

    Here's a 3" 3mm bright shot from a 3800 psi framing gun into... Well against, 80 year old Eucalyptus timber.



    Look what became of that tip! Pre-drilling IS mandatory!


    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,951

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    "Here's a 3" 3mm bright shot from a 3800 psi framing gun into... Well against, 80 year old Eucalyptus timber."

    I guess the meaning of "you're tough as nails" is different in the land of oz. / Jim

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,445

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Naaahhh... he just needs Oregon nails and an Oregon carpenter. The Washington versions of each tend toward the 'soft' end of the spectrum <G>

    Seriously, though -- As with many conifers... douglas fir tends to harden dramatically as it ages thru the decades. Makes it mighty tough to put new nails in or take old nails out. Predrilling eventually becomes near-mandatory.
    I Often predrill recycled Eucalypt as it's virtually impossible to drive a nail into it. I'd only predrill Oregon to prevent splitting.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    5,576

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Back a while in history, Australia and New Zealand both imported a lot of Douglas Fir from the top left corner of the North American "Island", this was almost all old growth, lovely straight stuff with growth rings perhaps 12 to 15 per inch, quite dense and both stable and very durable.
    This wonderful species of wood was then planted in quite large quantities throughout New Zealand and in a few parts of South Australia and Victoria ( Australia). It grew very fast, perhaps 5 times as fast as it does in its native range and those stands produce lower density, lower strength, rather coarse grained wood in comparison with the original. To differentiate the import from the locally grown product the former was dubbed "Oregon" pine and the local Douglas Fir.
    So the legend goes, who knows, there may be some truth in it, but the differences in the wood are for sure.

    John Welsford

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Yes, most plantation-grown trees - of any species - are optimized for fast growth/harvest in order to maximize cash flow and ROI. Strength, beauty, and working characteristics just don't factor in. The differences are often so stark as to nearly represent two different species. Teak is a good example. One has to be quite careful when specifying teak. Plantation grown, for the most part, is far inferior - at least in my experience.
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,445

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    NZ and OZ Oregon is rubbish. My mast is built from recycled Nth American Oregon and it's a pleasure to work with...I wish I had more.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mainland, NZ
    Posts
    24,207

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    I know where there's a house full of it that's coming down soon......
    We don't know how lucky we are....

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,445

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    I know where there's a house full of it that's coming down soon......
    Pity about the big puddle between us.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Above flood level, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    18,328

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    ... And?

    Can I be your new best friend Sean?
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    30,445

    Default Re: What is "Oregon Pine?"

    When I was looking for timber for my mast the local timber savage yard had some 10 metre x 300mm+ x 100mm Oregon. I would have got my 8 full length staves out of one stick but he wanted $1,000 each for them. By scarfing shorter lengths I did my mast for about half that.
    Trump, a man who can't hold a coherent thought till the end of the sentence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •