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Thread: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

  1. #1
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    Default Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    A friend of mine bought this boat about a month ago. The guy he bough it from said it was built in the mid 1970's by Palmer Scott.

    After a little research, Palmer Scott did not build boats after 1954, and none of the boat he built quite look like this one. The cabin looks like a brownell bass boat, but the hull doesn't. And the hull doesn't match any Palmer Scott boats I found pictures of.

    Anybody have any ideas of a maker, or a vintage? After trying to look into this for about three weks, I have given up. Maybe some of you can enlighten me.

    Boat is 23ft Overall, 7ft 8inch beam, and draws 2ft.





    I have other pictures of various aspects of the boat, let me know if any particular one would be of help.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Brownell.

    Here's a Palmer Scott 23, Flush Deck. I'd love to find plans for this, or something similar, in wood.







    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by CrosbyStriper View Post
    A friend of mine bought this boat about a month ago. The guy he bough it from said it was built in the mid 1970's by Palmer Scott.

    After a little research, Palmer Scott did not build boats after 1954, and none of the boat he built quite look like this one. The cabin looks like a brownell bass boat, but the hull doesn't. And the hull doesn't match any Palmer Scott boats I found pictures of.

    Anybody have any ideas of a maker, or a vintage? After trying to look into this for about three weks, I have given up. Maybe some of you can enlighten me.

    Boat is 23ft Overall, 7ft 8inch beam, and draws 2ft.





    I have other pictures of various aspects of the boat, let me know if any particular one would be of help.

    Thanks
    So this is a very old post and i came across this after many years of searching for her. I spoke with @crosbystriper already and know the that fate of this boat is irreversible, however for the sake of info i figured I would shine some light on this 22 footer.

    1. this boat was commissioned by my father back in the mid 70's to be built by a vocational program at Ft. Rodman in New Bedford. A friend of his had one built and told him "you just pay for the materials..they build you a boat"... so my father bit. However, they never got beyond the hull. The hull was laid, painted and the guy running the program was let go or the program terminated, not sure of the exact situation there...but the end result was the same, my father was left with a wooden hull. It was transported back to our house in Mattapoisett, just up the street from where Tom Brownell lived at the time and just through the field from Brownell's Boatyard. not sure how long there after things got completed, but i beleive that the majority of the carpentry to make this boat look very much like a brownell was done by a gentleman named Manny Costa. There was a handful of people from the boatyard that had their hands in making the "Souvenir" a reality, and they were/are all very talented. Upon launch, this boat was a looker. It always garnered attention of people who know the Brownell fleet trying to figure out exactly what she was.
    2. the hull is a palmer scott. I have the plans...actually just found them today (my father did). Only real deviation from the plans appears to be the flat, tumblehome transom that the Souvenir had.
    3. My father sold this boat back in 1994 i believe, at which time we (along with the aformentioned Manny Costa) deemed that the entire hull needed to be refastened. Unfortunately, the program that built the hull used steel (not stainless and definitely not brass) fasteners and that was beginning to show as a problem. So the boat was sold to someone fairly local (Acushnet i think?). A friend of mine who hauls boats for Brownell systems hauled her once or twice and said the owner loved her...
    4. the engine that the boat was bought with back in 2012, is /was the original power. It was the marinized version of a 1977 CHevy Nova 4 cylinder from what my Dad once told me. 130 hp. Pushed the boat pretty good... in the corner at about 20 kts, but it always gave my dad trouble (ran great for me).
    5. the mahogany toe rails were added a few seasons after launch.
    6. the boat did not originally have the stern tiller (just the rudder post in the stern hatch accessible for an emergency tiller) nor did it have the stern controls that i have heard she had at her demise.
    7. the chrome low vents are not original, those were as you can see in the pics below, the standard Nicro marine rubber vents.
    8. That steering wheel, if you can see it... is orginal...one of the things i always said i was going to replace..just did not fit with the rest of the boat, was a cheap plastic wheel. Most of the brownells you see have a wheel that resembles an Edson wheel, that is what she should have had (or an actual edson). I toyed with the idea of a destroyer wheel, but never got that far.
    9. The decks were redone late 80s or so due to problems with the fuel tanks. tanks needed to be fixed plus the deck was pitched to the helm so it collected water...fixed the fuel tanks, re-pitched the decks and off to the races. (done by Keith Verisimo, a former Brownell guy).
    10. As you can see from my 2 pics, she was originally painted red bottom (Interlux #46 red - i remember many a day riding my bike to the boatyard to get ...another gallon), light blue hull, white and gray topsides, gray decks, with same in the cabin, but for a mahogany back rest each side that was bright.
    11. she also tended to be a bit bow heavy. i cannot remember if we moved the batteries to the transom either side of the rudder post or if they started there... at one point the batteries were in the bilge in front of the engine at the helm if i rmember correctly... i think in the end they were in the transom, along with a good couple hundred pounds of pigs for balast.
    I have been trying to track her down for probably about 10 years now, maybe more, just hoping to see her afloat, maybe get a ride .... outside chance of owning her once again. but alas, i found this post. Was able to get in contact with CrosbyStriper here and found that she had suffered the inevitable fate that many wooden boats suffer. She's gone but for pictures and plans. Even that said, i still love this boat and given the money and time, i might take the plans and commission a copy of her...but we all know what kind of undertaking that would be, so for now, just pictures and great memories of a great little "brownell-ish" boat. if i get a chance, i will post some more of the pictures i have but for now, here is a couple of her coming out of "the shed" for the first time as a complete boat, headed for her christening back in I think 1979.

    -matt
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by marguin; 08-11-2018 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    A very pretty little bass boat! Nice to hear her history filled in. It is unfortunate you weren’t able to cross paths earlier.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Thanks for posting, Matt. She was a fine looking boat.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Thanks for closing the loop, Matt.

    And, welcome to the WBF.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Matt:
    Very interesting boat, and the history you provide is detailed and authoritative.

    Re: 2. When you say “flat, tumblehome transom”, does that mean, in profile, a plumb transom, that is, not raked forward or aft?
    The pictures do indeed show much tumble-home -- far more than I associate with a Palmer-Scott, and certainly more than you get with a typical Brownell bass boat; so some liberties were taken in the building.

    The typical Brownell bass boat, and the larger 32-footers, were as you say unlike the round-bilged SOUVENIR; rather, they were hard-chined Eldridge-McInnis designs. (Well, not always with Brownell: I know of at least one Brownell 32-footer that looked like the usual Eldridge-McInnis design above the water-line, but was round -bottomed -- and had a reputation as a roller!)

    So, the boat was a unique blending of designs and styles.

    The hull antecedent, if truly Palmer-Scott, was Dobson-designed. The first Palmer-Scotts of that design were wooden; later Palmer-Scott began building in fiberglass the 22 or 23-footers and 18-foot inboard bass boats. They were reputedly the first fiberglass salt-water sportfishing boats built in the country on a production-line basis. When Palmer-Scott went out of business the molds went to F. L. Tripp & Sons in Westport, Massachusetts, the bilges were flattened a little for more speed, and they were produced for several years in in-board and out-board models.

    But, above the toe-rail the SOUVENIR is indeed Brownell-esque. And, it looks like very competent carpentry above-deck, probably fastened with bronze.
    Since one of her owners saw fit to put in a stern tiller and aft controls, maybe there exist some photos of gorilla-sized Striped Bass that were once dropped on the deck of that boat.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpstalker View Post
    Matt:

    Re: 2. When you say “flat, tumblehome transom”, does that mean, in profile, a plumb transom, that is, not raked forward or aft?
    The pictures do indeed show much tumble-home -- far more than I associate with a Palmer-Scott, and certainly more than you get with a typical Brownell bass boat; so some liberties were taken in the building.
    by this i mean that it did not have the bow in it that the palmer scotts had when you view from above. as viewed from the side she was plumb, as viewed from above she was straight across the stern.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    and a couple more pics...from better days...of Souvenir, MS 5506 FR, these are all from the day of the first launch/christening and sea trial
    with the prowler in the background
    souvenir-1.jpg
    Little friend behind the bow as she backs off the trailer for the first time under her own power. Chuck Zimmer (one of the BBW Mechanics) at the helm, my father in the stern and some where you might see a 3 yr old me there.
    souvenir-2.jpg

    Town wharf in Mattapoisett, Christening/Launch party (notice no toe rail)
    souvenir-3.jpg
    In this pic, Tom Brownell at the helm, George Edwards (he used to be a hauler - and probably a lot more - for them back then) next to him, in the stern close, is David "Bi" Todd another hauler and builder for them...for a very long time and across from him is Manny Costa who did the bulk of the carpentry to finish her off based on my recollection.
    souvenir-4.jpg

    Running her through her paces, my guess is that the underway pics were taken from the BBW "Little Friend" (still in commission today by Triad Boatworks who purchased the BBW 1 Park St facility some years back).
    souvenir-5.jpg
    Last edited by marguin; 08-13-2018 at 08:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpstalker View Post
    e -- far more than I associate with a Palmer-Scott, and certainly more than you get with a typical Brownell bass boat; so some liberties were taken in the building.

    The typical Brownell bass boat, and the larger 32-footers, were as you say unlike the round-bilged SOUVENIR; rather, they were hard-chined Eldridge-McInnis designs. (Well, not always with Brownell: I know of at least one Brownell 32-footer that looked like the usual Eldridge-McInnis design above the water-line, but was round -bottomed -- and had a reputation as a roller!)
    yeah, i was present when a BBW 28' met the same demise as my Souvenir. A friend of mine had purchased a 38 footer and restored her, "Tiderunner"..she went down coming out of Red Brook harbor when she popped a plan...sunk to the top of the cabin and got towed back to wareham... anyway, he also had picked up the 28 footer, but lost heart after losing the Tiderunner. That 28' footer could have been the big sister to the Souvenir..round chin, tumblehome, something i had never seen in a Brownell. at that time she was merely a hull the inside had been stripped out as a start of restoration (pulled 2 isuzu motors out of her). He talked about making an open boat out of her, but in the end she too was too far gone.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    just to make sure i get my time in the spotlight, one more picture


    souvenir-6.jpg

    Damn right i got first ride!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Ha! Great pics and a great boat!
    Thanks so much for sharing.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Matt:
    Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you mean about the transom of SOUVENIR, which certainly contrasts with a Palmer-Scott as to being “bowed” when viewed from above. In fact, I defy anyone to find a single straight line, anywhere on a Palmer-Scott! Well, I guess that’s not so bad when you consider that there is strength in curves.

    Your first launching photo that shows the PROWLER behind your SOUVENIR indicates unmistakable kinship, given their windshields and trunk cabins. And, in vivid contrast are the hulls: the round-bottomed Dobson-designed SOUVENIR and hard-chined Eldridge-McInnis-designed PROWLER.

    The PROWLER I believe was a 32-footer. Those were very pleasing-to-the-eye A-frame masts for Swordfish spotting that Brownell made for that class of sport-fishermen that was a step larger than bass-boat size. And, they could be combination boats too, as some of the 32s and up had the stern tiller and aft controls as well for trolling for Bass and Blues in a rip.

    The Mattapoisett Town dock pictures reveal a 24-foot Brownell bass boat alongside the dock and behind the SOUVENIR, in darker blue “Brownell colors”.
    The 28-footer you refer to sounds very interesting, too – twin engines, no less.


    SOUVENIR looked very good underway. It is fortunate that you have some many good photos of her that reveal so much.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    For what it is worth, a friend of mine has a twin screw BBW 32 that he would love to unload. has not been in the water since 2 yrs ago, but she is in pretty good condition. he refastened the entire hull some years back. any interest let me know.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    The plans as the boat would have been built if she was finished by those who started her. Scanned this weekend.

    Souvenir-PalmerScott-Hull.jpgPalmerScott22-Topside-plans.jpg

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marguin View Post
    For what it is worth, a friend of mine has a twin screw BBW 32 that he would love to unload. has not been in the water since 2 yrs ago, but she is in pretty good condition. he refastened the entire hull some years back. any interest let me know.


    Is that the, Maggie B?

    Kevin


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    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    nope. The "Maggie B" is the 44 footer... and for someone like me, rather a legend. When i was a kid, she was the "Shan-lin" and a swordfishing MACHINE, with Tom Brownell, John Clark and Tom Borges running her. At one point Fred Brownell sold her to a gentleman down in florida i think and then at some point they puchased her back. That is when she became the "Maggie B". She is also available, currently owned by Linda Brownell and on hard in mattapoisett after having some repairs done. She is basically waiting for someone to come along and get her. I do not remember the original name of the 32 that i referred to above, but it is hull #5, current name "Vintage #5".

    I think that the 32' Shan-lin, was what is currently the Betwix, previously owned by another friend of mine (the one that had the tiderunner and the remnants of that 28 footer)...and currently owned by the owner of Triad Boatworks. Pretty sure she was one of the dozen or so "Shan-lin's" but i could be mistaken on that one so don't quote me on that one. Betwix for that matter, is single screw.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    i believe that "Shan-lin" was one of each: 24 footer, 32 footer, 36 footer, the 44 and the final beast out of that shed, the 52 footer... there was one boat out of the shed after that, Linda's personal 27' the "Linda B".

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    marguin:

    Coincidentally, there is another Brownell-styled bass boat named SOUVENIR, and she still sails. I say "styled" because the ones built by Graves were of almost identical (circa 24-26-feet). She is owned by retired New York District and U. S. Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau who uses her for what she was built to do: fish. I saw her in her slip in Menemsha last week.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpstalker View Post
    marguin:

    Coincidentally, there is another Brownell-styled bass boat named SOUVENIR, and she still sails. I say "styled" because the ones built by Graves were of almost identical (circa 24-26-feet). She is owned by retired New York District and U. S. Attorney Robert M. Morgenthau who uses her for what she was built to do: fish. I saw her in her slip in Menemsha last week.
    There was also another actual brownell, i think it was a 32, black hull named Souvenir. Haven not seen that boat in a while though...since Brownell sold the Park St boat shop.

    -m

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    marguin:

    Whoops. You have it right.

    I only saw a stern view last week, and have now checked further: the black-hulled boat now owned by Robert Morgenthau is indeed a 32-footer and was built by Brownell. Reportedly, and as you say, she was in the Mattapoisett yard five or six years ago.

    She does share the same name and a background, albeit partial, with the now-gone round-bottomed SOUVENIR.

    Those Brownell's did have a great reputation for "holding a rip" when trolling for Striped Bass in the strong currents of Southern New England.
    Last edited by stumpstalker; 08-31-2018 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Robert, not Henry Morgenthau

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpstalker View Post
    marguin:

    Whoops. You have it right.

    I only saw a stern view last week, and have now checked further: the black-hulled boat now owned by Henry Morgenthau is indeed a 32-footer and was built by Brownell. Reportedly, and as you say, she was in the Mattapoisett yard five or six years ago.

    She does share the same name and a background, albeit partial, with the now-gone round-bottomed SOUVENIR.

    Those Brownell's did have a great reputation for "holding a rip" when trolling for Striped Bass in the strong currents of Southern New England.

    while i am quite biased toward the Brownells due to my growing up with them being built "next door" they are amazing boats both to look at and to run. My recollections of them building the 52 (fairly recently sold out of Boston - by recent - say 5-6 yrs ago) are vivid. i remember sticking my head in the exhausts in the stern while she was in the shed on park st. The Maggie B (aka the Shan-lin) is still a sight to behold...hopefully she will soon find a new owner and return to the water.

    That Black hulled "Souvenir" was no exception to the Brownell rule...she was quite the looker. If i could go back in time to my childhood, i would probably spend all my hours at the wharf watching them come and go. So many guys around here have stories about sticking swords and marlin on those boats.... and to see a new "tale" go up on the wharf (Shan-lin's spot was known to have many a tale denoting another great trip to just south of Noman's).

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-s...agreement.html

    for reference man is she a machine.... and she "sips" fuel for a beast like that from Speaking with Tom Brownell about her a handful of years back.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Matt:
    You are so right about the Brownells. They did very well as day-boat harpooners, Swordfishing South of Nomans and at The Corner off of Nantucket, at least in the late 60s and early 70s time-frame I am familiar with.

    And, there was one colorful fellow, in a long line of Swordfishing yachtsman harpooners, who occasionally chartered one of the Brownell’s SHAN-LIN boats: Bill (“Chumslick”) Sawyer, of Duxbury, MA, a banker by profession. He would come into Menemsha to raise or at least round out a crew. One trip he shipped Alfred Vanderhoop, a veteran Gay Head Indian Swordfisherman to go as striker -- like something rightout of Melville. That trip they did stay out one night, tethered astern of the schooner JAGUAR. They did so much rolling in the swells while tied astern that they came aboard the schooner to use one of the many bunks to get some rest. (One thing about that 63-foot schooner, with its nine-foot draft and lead keel, she was very steady.)

    Thanks for the link to the Thread on the 52-foot cold-molded Brownell hull. That is quite a custom-built boat. One man’s post in the THT Thread referenced the Eldridge-McInnis reputation for “lobster yachts”and “downeast” boats. The McInnis range was much wider than that -- large motor-yachts, e.g., the LION’S WHELP; sailboats; draggers, etc. One man asked if she was McCusker-owned.

    I do not know about that 52-footer, but Paul McCusker and family did own and very successfully Swordfished an Eldridge- McInnis design. They were out of Falmouth Inner Harbor. One of their boats was a 42 or 43-foot Eldridge-McInnis-designed fly-bridge sportfisherman, the HOLIDAY. She had a large A-frame mast that must have been Brownell-built, and later an aluminum tower. She was probably built by Brownell, but later on their boats were built in their own yard after they bought the MacKenzie boat line. They also slayed the Swordfish with a 37-foot Merritt, sometimes harpooning in one day fish in the high ‘teens. And, later they did so in a big Hargraves-designed sport-fisherman, built in their own yard.

    There was a Wall Street tycoon also in Falmouth who had a large Matthews for such as Swordfish and other big-game, named the TOMAHAWK. He also had in the adjacent slip a Brownell bass boat, named the HATCHET. Both were painted a maroon-red color.

    All very pleasing to the eye. I wish I had pictures; maybe someone will come in and post a few.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpstalker View Post
    Matt:
    You are so right about the Brownells. They did very well as day-boat harpooners, Swordfishing South of Nomans and at The Corner off of Nantucket, at least in the late 60s and early 70s time-frame I am familiar with.

    And, there was one colorful fellow, in a long line of Swordfishing yachtsman harpooners, who occasionally chartered one of the Brownell’s SHAN-LIN boats: Bill (“Chumslick”) Sawyer, of Duxbury, MA, a banker by profession. He would come into Menemsha to raise or at least round out a crew. One trip he shipped Alfred Vanderhoop, a veteran Gay Head Indian Swordfisherman to go as striker -- like something rightout of Melville. That trip they did stay out one night, tethered astern of the schooner JAGUAR. They did so much rolling in the swells while tied astern that they came aboard the schooner to use one of the many bunks to get some rest. (One thing about that 63-foot schooner, with its nine-foot draft and lead keel, she was very steady.)

    Thanks for the link to the Thread on the 52-foot cold-molded Brownell hull. That is quite a custom-built boat. One man’s post in the THT Thread referenced the Eldridge-McInnis reputation for “lobster yachts”and “downeast” boats. The McInnis range was much wider than that -- large motor-yachts, e.g., the LION’S WHELP; sailboats; draggers, etc. One man asked if she was McCusker-owned.

    I do not know about that 52-footer, but Paul McCusker and family did own and very successfully Swordfished an Eldridge- McInnis design. They were out of Falmouth Inner Harbor. One of their boats was a 42 or 43-foot Eldridge-McInnis-designed fly-bridge sportfisherman, the HOLIDAY. She had a large A-frame mast that must have been Brownell-built, and later an aluminum tower. She was probably built by Brownell, but later on their boats were built in their own yard after they bought the MacKenzie boat line. They also slayed the Swordfish with a 37-foot Merritt, sometimes harpooning in one day fish in the high ‘teens. And, later they did so in a big Hargraves-designed sport-fisherman, built in their own yard.

    There was a Wall Street tycoon also in Falmouth who had a large Matthews for such as Swordfish and other big-game, named the TOMAHAWK. He also had in the adjacent slip a Brownell bass boat, named the HATCHET. Both were painted a maroon-red color.

    All very pleasing to the eye. I wish I had pictures; maybe someone will come in and post a few.

    I think "Tomahawk" that you are referring to is in Marion Harbor..or was not too long ago... about 40 foot long ...maroon hull just like you describe...

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    pm-tf-010.jpg

    Marquin:

    Son of a gun, I had an old photo of the TOMAHAWK. Taken in 1966, at her slip at Falmouth Marine Railways (marina). No photo of the Brownell bass boat HATCHET, though.

    This was not the first big Matthews sport-fisherman owned by the Wall Streeter/sportsman.

    And, at the end of one season he told the yard management he wanted two new engines installed in the TOMAHAWK for the following year. Asked if there was anything wrong with the current engines, the old gent replied that, no, there was nothing known to be wrong; but, he just wanted two new ones put in to be sure he wouldn't miss any fishing days unnecessarily during next season.

    Colorful character. Beautiful boat.

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    Default Re: Wooden Bass Boat, who made it?

    What a beautiful boat. Thanks for the pics and the story. I'd recognize the Mattepoisett boat ramp anywhere . . .

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