Building an anchor well

[TimDare]

I own a 'Val Boat', a 28ft keeler designed by Col Wild in New Zealand in the late 1940s. I would like to build a well to get the anchor chain and rope off the foredeck. (I have on-deck chocks for her CQR anchor, and am happy to leave that where it is.) I can fit a well for the chain and rode under the foredeck, but cannot have a very large opening to it without fairly major work on the deck frames. I can fit an opening about 150mm (6inches) square, and build a small hatch. That would be fine to run the chain and rode through, but all the anchor lockers I have seen have full hatches. Is the larger opening necessary, if I'm not planning to put the anchor in the well? I will be able to access the well from below, and I could put an access hatch in so I could get inside it if necessary: (I'm not sure why it might be necessary - perhaps in case the chain tangled or the like). So my question is, is it ok to have a well for the chain and rope with a fairly small opening on to the deck? Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Tim

[Matti]

In my boat I have 2" pipe let through deck under windlass going direct to chain locker.

http://www.svb24.com/index.php?sid=91ce1b8eab3c6a314e58a0472e724e5b&cl=details&cnid=12702&anid=83
There is one cover for that.

Matti

[rbgarr]

Being where you are you might want to contact the Pardey's and ask for their take on anchor line and chain wells/lockers. http://pardey.paracay.com

If I recall correctly, they have a removable bin that the anchor line/chain drops and flakes safely into which can be removed for cleaning and drying out on occasion. The bin(s) also have some way to drain over board but I don't remember the details.

[wizbang 13]

Is the purpose to isolate the smell and mud of the chain from the bilge?

I like to have an ABS pipe, slanted aft and down at about 2 to 1, to get the chain aft and low.
A chain to rope splice can be a stinking nuisance, passing through the opening, and, if the chain gets rusty, rust damages nylon rode.
If you use all chain, have the end able to easily detatch, (with a knife) , from the boat.
I have seen boats get in trouble a few times , unable to cast off the anchor .

[Matti]

Some supplement to the first answer;
Through deck fitting is made 2" stainless pipe, with welded flange, below deck is 3" drainage plastic pipe to chain locker, made plywood, sheated glass and epoxy, with hatch on top. Locker bottom is about DWL-high. From locker bottom, there is hose to shower pump system to have water overboard with less through hull fittings below DWL.
Ancor chain is secured with 2m long strong line inside locer, when and if you must leave anchor, just cut the line with knife on deck.
Matti

[Ian McColgin]

The common yacht size commercial deck hawses are often but 1" to 1-1/2" ID but it's easy to make larger as you wish from common plumbing stock in either plastic or bronze. Have a U cut in the lip sticking above deck (but not down to deck level) and a matching inverted U in the cap so you and have the cover fit and the line or chain still run through.

Even if you've a hole big enough to pass any shackle connecting chain to fibre rode, it bangs and hangs up. Better to connect with a splice - if three strand, then a back splice with two strands of the crown knot passing through the last chain link one way, third strand the other, is the most chafe proof system - far better than a eye splice and thimbled eye which is too big to pass through the chain anyway.

I put a hook on the underside of the cap which can be put through a chain link so when you lower the cap in place the weight of the hanging chain holds the cap down. I also put a keeper line on the cap so it won't get kicked overboard when you're letting out or bringing in rode.

I do not like pipe below the deck. Even fibre will generally self-stow if there's some free-fall and coming out tangles clear more easily if there's no pipe till deck.

I've used a tapered garbage can with the bottom cut off upside down on some sort of platform (tapers from wide at new bottom to narrower at top) for chain since chain likes to pile up in a pyramid and will go in and out easily so long as the thing is confined enough that it does not topple over into a tangle. Mostly with all rope rodes I have found it handy to just push it down the hawse and let it fake itself down. Depending on your forepeak, this is likely best to fall into a long space going about the same distance fore and aft from the hawse hole. You can as you push the line down point it one way or the other than the line's stiffness will naturally loop the way you want.

I have put various spools under to accomodate very long rodes. The disadvantage of a spool is that if the line goes in wet, it stays wet a long time. Mildew does not bother modern fibres but may bother you. It's really hard for one person to fully stow on a spool since you need to be there to level-wind it and be turning and the rode does not like to feed in the hole. One elegant solution for a friend's ketch was to mount the spool athwartships under the deck just ahead of the forehatch, which made for a hawsehole handy to the bits on the bowsprit and all within reach of someone sitting on the hatch combing, feet in and turning the spool, both arms free to work the windlass or pull directly as the case may be.

Whatever you do, if you cannot make a totally isolated line well with its own drain, have a way of cleaning the rode as it comes in. For boats that don't have pressure salt water deck washdown (so easy to arrange aimed out the bow along the rode's path) you might find a chain scrubber - really a pair of astroturf part circular brushes that can be placed over the rode and with a bit of weight and a line to keep it from sinking all the way will scrub the rode at just below the water level, leaving it clean as it comes out.

G'luck

Edited to add - this is the scrubber - now discontinued but before it was manufactured I'd made essentially this same thing and so can you. There are similar gizmos patented which is a crock since the first one I made I did when I was fourteen and it was just an obvious idea.

[JoshuaIII]

A simple hardwood box pipe going throught the deck work well (Actually this is how it is designed on my boat). No need of fancy hardware.

The tricks is to use a cone under the deck. You know those orange cone in the street? Take one and nail it right in the middle of the well! This way when the chain go down it will not pile up in the middle and fill it too fast. The cone will make the chain go all around, and when there is too much on one side, the cone will collapse and let it go on the other side until it's even everywhere...

Have fun.

[Candyfloss]

Damn, that's a good idea Josh.

Manually feeding rode into a hawse pipe or similar is a pain. Does your budget extend to a capstan?

[TimDare]

Thanks for all of this: very helpful. I don't think this year's budget does run to a capstan - though I do yearn for one. I'll leave the hawse pipe till near the end of the current project and see how things look, or do what i can to make sure it's positioned to accommodate a capstan if that does have to wait. I like the idea of the hardwood box pipe. I do happen to have a rather beautiful bronze hawse pipe (found it in my garage!) which is also tempting. One question about it actually. The pipe - which is straight - comes off the above-deck flange at quite an angle (close to 45°), so the hole through the deck would also have to be angled. Any advice on cutting that hole? I thought I could use a small drill bit at the right angle, or cut a round hole and use a rasp to angle it at opposite sides, one side from above deck and the other from below. Or i could just build a hardwood wooden box!

[Ian McColgin]

TimDare, it sounds as if your hawse pipe is one designed to go through the hull, not the deck. Very few 28' boats are large enough that they can house an anchor in the hawse under the gunnel and the traditional method of catting the anchord rather than pulling it home to the hawsehole is even more unlikely. Find someone with a boat big enough for what you have there and make it a wonderful present or a very fullfilling addition to your cruising kitty.

Whatever you put on deck, make sure you have a way to cap it to keep both rain and the occasional sea out.

G'luck

[JoshuaIII]

Tim, the angle are not too hard to cut... On the side they will be 90 degrees (Except if you move the pipe sideway too) and forward & aft the angle that you put the pipe. Depending of the deck material a rasp can work or sharp chisel.

My hardwood box go a few inches above deck level, with a nice cap made of fancy wood to cover it varnished... Simple, cheap and look just as good to my eyes...

[Ian McColgin]

Ah Joshua - I may be wrong - a photo would be nice - but I took it to be the flange that was at 45 degrees to the tube.

[JoshuaIII]

I may be wrong too... My English is not always at the top! I do not have a picture this morning but a sketch on the plan which may work to describe.

The hardwood box go straight through the deck a few inches, if there will be a angle I would change it just below the deck but it would come out relatively straight on the deck.

[Ian McColgin]

We need a picture.

Joshua, I experimented in one boat with a bent lead below the deck hole and did not like the result at all. Nor do I like any lead below the deck. I want my deck hole exactly above the center of the chain or rope locker with as much clearance - as much space above the pile - as possible. Here's the reasoning, based on experience.

Straight fall - The self-stowing depends on gravity which is exerting little enough force if the fall is straight since it's going to be only a few feet on most yachts. Add the friction of the sloping pipe and the ability of a smaller fall at the end of the slope leading to little enough down-force that the chain or fiber rode just jams in the pipe.

No length of pipe - Even with a straight fall, the rope or chain must pile or fake itself in the locker, which means it needs room to move a bit off-center as it piles up. With chain it's pretty evenly around making a conical pile. With a fibre rode the locker should be rectangular so that the rode can self-flake, usually easier to design if the long axis is fore and aft. In addition to giving some unrestricted space for the line, you also allow some vertical space for any kinks or twists to work themselves out. And if a jam does develop, if the pipe is only as long as the deck is thick you will be able to get at it from above or below. A length of pipe extending down only makes a place for trouble.

Even a hawse pipe through the hull, whether the anchor is traditionally catted to the rail or is of a shape that it can stow with it's shank in the pipe, leads up to deck or near deck level where it goes around the gypsey and then down to the chain locker. From the gypsey on all installations face the same physics issues.

G'luck

[JoshuaIII]

It's a wooden hardwood box, you can make it as large as you wish for the ID and the angle is for the question of Tim which said he have to put it in a angle(Or I've miss something somewhere), I do prefer straight myself too. As you see in the drawing the wooden pipe stop before where the chain pile up....

So I do not understand what all this fuzz is about... Anyway don't have a picture on hand right now, and it's winter time... When I lay my hand on one I will give it to you. Just saying no need of fancy bronze hardware on the deck for it neither of the pipe leading below that's all...

[Breakaway]

The rig in my ( mass manufactured fiberglass) fishing boat is a sloped shelf made of poly material("Starboard") below the hawse so that the chain "splashes" off it into the back of the rode locker rather than piling up directly below the hawse. Pretty simple. Works great.

kevin