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Thread: Repair of classic Alden yawl

  1. #1
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    Post Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Hello all, my name is Peter Byrnes and I am 1 year into the repair and restoration of our beautiful Alden yawl " Evening Star ". I have been enjoying following many of the various posts and thought maybe someone would also enjoy seeing our project as it moves along. We have concentrated our efforts on the hull first, which had 22 through hull fittings! I sealed 13 permanently with cedar plugs and blocks and several others with tapered plugs until we can haul out again to replace the bronze seacocks. We have repaired the transom frame and replanked the transom, fixed the diesel engine and stern bearing and shaft, and stripped the fiberglass from the cabin top and replaced with burlap and arabol.
    The major task ahead is the removal of the teak deck and the replacement of the deck frame. After another month of work I hope to dive into this job. Thanks in advance for any advice and moral support!
    Tried to attach some photos but couldn't seem to drag them to the attachment box!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Looking forward to pictures. Upload your photos to an internet storage site like tinypic, get the image address and paste it into the photo box in the reply editor.

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Thanks, I'll ask my son to help me learn to do that.

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Happy to offer all the moral support you need, in exchange for plenty of pics of the work!! All the very best with her Peter.
    cheers
    Greg
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Do you know what design number of Alden's your yawl is?
    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Yes, it's # 638 built for Frederick Ford of Detroit in 1937 at the Herreshoff Boat Yard in Bristol. 55' on deck, 14' beam. I'll try again to post photos.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Petr,
    If you get your photos up onto Flickr you can just drag them across into a post without messing with any other steps. You just have to click on your pic then go to where it offers you several size options, click on the size picture you choose and drag it across into the post. No need to mess with The forum uploading business.
    It might work for other hosting sites, I don't know but it's easy from Flickr.

    Interested to see some pics.
    Sophie

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Sophie, thanks, I failed at opening an account at tinypic. I'll try Flickr

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    I put 6 photos on Flickr and now do I copy and paste to here? http://www.flickr.com/photos/72618385@N03/6554155555/

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    I always have trouble with Flikr. When I use its "Share" button to get the URL address, it doesn't work when I try to paste it in the forum thread. What I do with Flikr is right-click on the picture (in Flikr). A little window pops up. Then click on "properties" in the little window. Copy the URL address you see in the properties window (you know by clicking and holding as you drag you mouse across what you want to copy). Then go to your woodenboat thread, start a new post, and click on the little image (picture) icon (has a tree in it--may need your reading glasses to see it--I do). Click on the "from URL" tab. Then paste the address in the little window. Be sure to remove the check mark from the "retreive remote file and reference locally" option.

    If these instructions sound greek, go find you a kid and have them read it--they will understand.

    Someone may know an easier way.

    Very nice boat! I likeey

    Last edited by chuckt; 12-22-2011 at 02:45 PM.
    Chuck Thompson

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Wow. Huge potential there. Will it be a liveaboard?

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Hi Peter,
    Once you've got them into Flickr it's easy. Just click on the picture to make it bigger, it shows the pic in a black surround and up in the top corner it offers "All Sizes", click on that and it comes up again but with options of display size. Click on the picture and drag it across to the post you are writing and drop it in place. You don't have to mess with URL's or the image box on WBF or any of that stuff. Easy!

    Have fun,
    Sophie

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Beeyootiful boat. Looking forward to hearing more about the journey. Being owned by a boat of similar size (& age? Mine's 1941), I can tell you it's not a short one. Filled with tremendous times - including some frustrations & whyonearthdidieverbuythisthingthatskillingmeandmyw allet moments I must say. However, a journey of discovery nonetheless.

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Really beautiful.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7261838.../72618385@N03/
    Yes, I have my moments of sanity, but luckily they don't last too long

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    No plans yet about being a livaboard, have to get it sailing and seaworthy first.
    These photos were taken last winter when we hauled out. I need my son to help me with this computer stuff!

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Peter,
    I copied them across for you, I hope that's OK.
    You can copy them into your own post and add comments.

    If you right click on the pics in this post then you can add them as images to your own post.

    Looks like you've done a lot of work!!

    Sophie





















  19. #19
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Thanks Sophie and also Chuck T., I'm not very fluent with computer stuff. I have lots of photos but I don't want to post all of them every time I want to add a few new ones to the file. That is Alaskan yellow cedar planks on top of 2 layers of 1/4 inch marine ply epoxied together and glued to the frame with 5200 and bronze screws. I chiseled out the rot in the frame then glued and screwed in cedar blocks before fairing and treating the frame with Smith's penetrating epoxy. Pete

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Peter,
    I'm happy to help but if you can get them to Flickr then you've done the "hard" part.
    Ignore all those instructions about url's and image boxes that they have here, it really is just simply clicking and then dragging.
    The only important step is not to try and copy the picture that first comes up on Flickr, it won't let you anyway.
    You have to click on it which takes you to a high quality image with a black surround.
    The next step is up in the right hand corner it says all sizes. Click on that and then pick the size you want and simply drag it across and dump it. Try it.

    Looking forward to seeing more of your work.

    Sophie

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Hi Sophie, I uploaded 9 more photos to Flickr. When I click one, it gets bigger but without a black surround and there is no way to choose a size anytime. That step is not available on any page that I get during the process. I tried clicking and dragging but that doesn't move anything, also where would I drag it to? thanks, Pete

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Here's one. I just reread Sophie's instructions and, indeed, it does work. After clicking on the "all sizes" button, you can drag the photo from the browser window into the "quick reply" window in the WBF forum. (You want to open two browsers at the same time.) And there it is. Nice trick. I may have grabbed one that's a bit big. But it suits the vessel.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Thanks Woxbox, I didn't have both windows open at the same time, and I have a Mac. Still, when I upload the pics from my hard drive to Flickr then click on a pic, I don't get a choice for size.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Hmmm. I get the option with Chrome, Windows Explorer and Firefox.
    It's a single click on the photo to get the options -- the frame goes black and the box shows up in the upper right-hand corner.
    My she's looking nice here.


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Did you say burlap and arabol? Like Beuhler and Rabl describes? where can you get Arabol? I thought Borden stopped making it...

    -Thad
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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Never heard of "arabol"--what is it?

    Gorgeous boat.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Thad, I bought it at Whale Point Ace Hardware in Point Richmond, Ca. and I think Lou buys it from Svensons in Alameda. It isn't the Bordens brand anymore, but " DP " lagging adhesive. The original arabol was lagging adhesive also. There are several different product # for the DP adhesive and I'll need to go the boat and write down the # and post it here soon. I used the Bordens brand for the first time in 1973 on my plywood decks and cabin top with burlap cloth and was totally impressed at the ease of application, and the surprising durability. The burlap cloth is absorbent and uses much more glue than " yellow jacket " mesh which is plastic, but works way better. This new brand of arabol smells and looks the same and sticks like crazy to the wood. Hey! my son showed me how to get the black border and the choose size option and drag the picture thing! Yeaaa it worked great


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Wow!! Eveningstar is looking great!!! She needed some new energy; last time I saw her at EYC during the 2007 MM Race (I was on LYNX) she looked a bit downtrodden. I remember seeing her out sailing during the late 70's- early 80's and thinking "What a beautiful boat"! Well, she still is! Keep up the good work...
    I used airbol over yellowjacket on some of my decks in 1991, and except for a couple of high wear areas that I've had to go over, it has done very well.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Well, hello "Evening Star!" I tried to connect with you through the yard when you first got her, but they wouldn't give me your phone number. (Understandable.) I left mine, but didn't hear back from you. (Also understandable.)

    I know Evening Star very well. I've sailed in her many times. Her previous long time owner, Bill Vaughn, co-founder of the Master Mariners Benevolent Association, is a dear friend of mine for over forty years now. Sadly, Bill is now elderly and blind. His wife, Sondra, is also in poor health and they are now just getting by with a little help from their friends. I did my damnedest to find Evening Star a new home for Bill, but the economy being what it is, there were no takers. I am so glad to see that somebody is putting the time and money into bringing her back. She's not really all that far gone. Primarily, it was a matter of deferred maintenance, but with a boat her size, even just keeping up with routine maintenance is a very expensive proposition. She had an extensive rebuild in the late '70's, including new garboards and a lot of floor timber work IIRC. (I designed and built the Master Mariner's "Kermit Parker Perpetual Trophy," donated by Bill Vaughan and I, from Evening Star's original mahogany garboard planks.)

    As mentioned, I know Evening Star very well. She is indeed Alden designed and Herreshoff built. AFAIK, she is the only boat Herreshoff Mfg. Co. built that wasn't designed by a Herreshoff and one of the very last, if not the last, boat the company built during Nathaniel Herreshoff's lifetime. Most of her gear and structure is original, as I'm sure you've discovered. Her steering pedestal and anchor winch were designed, cast and built "in house" by the HMCo., as are most of her fittings and, of course, her bronze knees.

    If you have questions about the engine, Tom List of List Marine in Sausalito is your man. He kept her kicking for Bill for many years and knows the engine room like the back of his hand.

    It's your boat now and you can do what you wish with her, but "burlap and arabol" make me cringe. (Oh... the horror!) I won't beat you up too much, but Evening Star's cabin tops are planked and while Arabol (generic lagging adhesive) does have more flexibility (for a while in the sun) than epoxy or other plastic coatings, it will crack soon when the planking moves and quickly fail. Such a coating on the planking (it is fir or pine) will surely promote rot as well and the burlap can't be expected to survive at all once any moisture gets to it. Because Evening Star is so historic a vessel (Not just designer and buildler, but also winner of the Mackinaw and Ensenada races, placed in Bermuda and Transpac races, I believe.), I would have hoped her canvased cabin tops would have been replaced exactly as originally built. (Dynel and epoxy would have been suitable as well, but would have required a "floating" plywood underlayment over the planking, which IMHO isn't really worth the trouble.) I do hope you have found some competent advice regarding her restoration. If I were you, I'd be talking to the Herreshoff Museum people about it. But, so it goes.

    She does need deck work. It's been worn down to where she's not holding bungs worth a damn. I hope that leaking hasn't caused the deck beam to rot, but that's a possibility. The deck planking is rather thick, as it should be, so perhaps sinking the screws a bit deeper might suffice, but I know that's been done at least once bofore. You'll note that there are a couple of patches in the deck planking (short planks) port and starboard of the aft end of the deck house. Those replaced the holes drilled for mounting a pair of .30 cal. machine guns which she carried during her wartime service on submarine patrol (not that they would have been worth a damn against a U-boat's deck gun!)

    Evening Star is well known to many of the old time heirarchy of the yachting community. Owning her is not only a privilege, but an awsome responsibility. If you bring her back the way she deserves, you'll forever be known as "the guy that saved Evening Star." If you blow it, you'll always be "that arseh**e that ruined Evening Star!" Not exactly an enviable position.

    If you wish, PM me and I can put you in touch with Bill Vaughan and those others who kept her going all these years and perhaps answer some of the many questions I know you've got about her. I know she didn't come with an "insturction manual." That oral tradition is all there is.

    Good luck!


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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    We have a few more pics of the arabol job and the trim install and oil dry wood. After that we built a workbench and shed roof over for start of the deck removal.




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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    I know you're going to hate me for saying this, but the next time you sheath the cabin tops, please understand that to do a proper job that will not leak and promote rot, ALL the deck furniture and fittings must be removed first. That means winches, skylights and so on. Then you lay your sheathing, then replace the deck furniture and hardware, bedded on top of the sheathing. If you don't do that, the sheathing will crack and pull away at all its edges. Sorry...

    You may want to take a closer look at the deck before you "remove" it. It was refastened with silicone bronze screws about twenty years ago. They should still be fine. Aside from the depth of the screws (I think the deck plank is at least 2.5" thick), it may only need recaulking and stopping and only a handful of planks replaced, if that.

    Let me say that when it comes to restoring a classic boat, the world is full of free advice and much of it is worth less than what you paid for it. That includes stuff written in a lot of books. This forum does have members who really know what they're doing. I'd urge you to discuss everything you plan to do on Evening Star with those folks in here. You will learn a lot and save a lot of money. She is a huge beast of a boat. She requires a trained (and drilled) crew to sail her. (A spinnaker jibe requires a "drill team.") The same goes for her maintenance. Like her sails, if you make a mistake in her maintenance and she "gets away from you," the results will be disasterous. (And do remember when sailing her that the forces generated can kill people. Be very careful of her main halyard wire winch, known as the "widowmaker," and the coffee grinder on the fantail, known as the "Little Princess Bust Developer.")
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 12-24-2011 at 03:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    I'm still marveling at the 22 thru-hulls. :^)

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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Hi Bob, Nice to finally get in touch with you. The boat yard never gave us the message that you were trying to get in contact with us. We would have called you if we knew. Thanks for the nice image of the boat under sail, from the Neils Hellesberg site! I have a print of that which I carry in my truck. A little background on me might ease your worries about the care of the boat. I restored my 1st old wooden boat under the wing of Ed Letter of Bolinas back in 1972. It was a lapstrake double ender, 28' x 9' built in Norway in 1900. Ed's yard is the later site where the Elizabeth Muir was built by Babe Lamerdin and John Linderman. Ed taught me boat carpentry, welding, and also about burlap and arabol. The cabin top of Evening Star is planked with 1 x 3 cedar T&G. The fiberglass covering had cracked and delaminated from the wood and leaked at 200 places. Worse, it held water trapped against the wood with no way to dry out. The arabol glue sticks so tightly to the wood and the burlap is totally saturated with glue that it is the best flexible medium to waterproof and prevent trapped water. If cracks develop over the seams of the T&G they will just be filled with more arabol and painted. I have asked the owners of the boats that I've araboled if the jobs have held up and all have said " yes absolutely no leaks!" even 25 years later. So don't cringe too much, I have the hands on experience and professional training from expert craftsmen as my boat building background.
    The teak decks have never been properly maintained since the original build. Lots of sanding and caulking with a rubber compound is all that has been done. By reefing the deck seams you can see that the only cotton coming out is so old and rotten and from the era. Many seams had only paying compound in them. Some had epoxy resin filled to near the top!
    The entire deck frame now needs to be replaced because the rainwater has done it's terrible deed. I'll post pics soon of the deck frame rot. Thanks for the advice, Pete engine room before and aftebr />

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    Lest I be lumped in with Bob Cleet's people giving bad advice, let me say that I agree with him on removing tracks, winches,covering boards etc. before replacing deck coverings. My main decks are still covered with the original canvas which only had a little rot in two corners that I repaired. The deck that I covered with arabol and yellowjacket was where a cockpit should be and isn't. I was running out of time and money for the rebuild when we finally sold our house and needed to move aboard, so I install some beams across the open cockpit hole, laminated two layers of plywood w/staggered seams over the beams and then laid down the arabol/yellowjacket and painted and nonskidded it with sand. It gave us a queen-sized bed underneath, and when we rigged the boom tent, a rumpass room on deck.
    Is it "best practice"? Maybe not...Did it work? Most definitely these last 21 years of living aboard, and sailing hard....

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Repair of classic Alden yawl

    I don't hate you for saying any advice because I already know what you are saying is correct for a proper restoration. However, when repairing a boat of this size you have to make decisions based on real knowledge and hands on experience. Hence the choice of arabol and burlap. I know that the cabin top will not leak, or delaminate, or promote rot and to remove the hatch combings, slides, mainmast collar and winch base would have destroyed most of them in the process. The arabol will not crack and pull away from the edges, that's exactly why I chose to use it. And please don't assume I need to look closer at the deck than I already have. I'm quite capable of making decisions on my own boat based on my own knowledge which I have learned and practiced for the last 35 + years! I agree that there are lots of people on this site who are very knowledgeable and experienced. I just happen to be one of them and don't appreciate your condescending tone. Now I'm sorry I ever posted on this site.

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