Wukan Clan ain't nothin' to f@%* with

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

I've heard there are protests in China on a daily basis. I've never heard of any like this though.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ught-back.html

For the first time on record, the Chinese Communist party has lost all control, with the population of 20,000 in this southern fishing village now in open revolt.


The last of Wukan’s dozen party officials fled on Monday after thousands of people blocked armed police from retaking the village, standing firm against tear gas and water cannons.

This report comes from the Torygraph, so it's probably just good old fashioned right wing anti-Commie reporting. AKA the kind of journalism God intended.

[Phillip Allen]

perhaps the land was needed to build factories to make cheap things for sale in the US... Did some Niki-like company set this in motion? (I always think of Bill and Hilly when I see such things)

[Tylerdurden]

Riots been going on over a year. China is in just as bad shape as everyone else no matter what the propagandists say.

[BrianY]

And the Wu Tang Clan aint' nothin' to F%^k with either!

[seanz]

perhaps the land was needed to build factories to make cheap things for sale in the US... Did some Niki-like company set this in motion? (I always think of Bill and Hilly when I see such things)

Not everything is about you.

[Glen Longino]

Riots been going on over a year. China is in just as bad shape as everyone else no matter what the propagandists say.

Are You in bad shape?
I'm not in bad shape!
Is Phillip Allen in bad shape?
I'm not in bad shape..."everybody" is Not in bad shape TylerDoomdom!

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Manufacturing jobs may return quicker than anticipated. What a sucky deal for the Repubs, eh? Just when so-called conservative CEO's had "outsourced" US manufacturing to crisis levels, opening the way toward dingbat economics, Obama may get tons of credit for "bringing jobs back home".

[seanz]

Manufacturing jobs may return quicker than anticipated. What a sucky deal for the Repubs, eh? Just when so-called conservative CEO's had "outsourced" US manufacturing to crisis levels, opening the way toward dingbat economics, Obama may get tons of credit for "bringing jobs back home".

OK. What thread did you think you were posting on?

[Waddie]

Riots been going on over a year. China is in just as bad shape as everyone else no matter what the propagandists say.

Based on recommendations from a well traveled China friend in finance, back in 2006 we (me and wife) put the bulk of our money into companies that supply equipment to build coal fired Chinese power plants. (you can't directly invest in China) Now we are in the process of moving the money to other emerging economies, but it's difficult to find ones that are truly stable. There seems to be some level of unrest everywhere, even India.

The main problem, aside from unrest everywhere, is that these "emerging " economy companies don't keep accounts in a way you can trust. Their financial reports are almost worthless sometimes, so it makes investing with any confidence difficult. Also, the news that you get out of these countries isn't very reliable. Most of the industries leaving China are going to places like Vietnam, but try to get accurate investment information out of Vietnam .. it's a crap shoot.

regards,
Waddie

[Gerarddm]

Well, the Party had no compulsion about gunning down people at Tianenmen Square; the villagers may find a similar fate. I wonder how long they can hold out.

[JimD]

... it's probably just good old fashioned... anti-Commie reporting. AKA the kind of journalism God intended.

Yup. I wouldn't be surprised if the big Man himself were behind it.

[seanz]

Nothing whatsoever to do with a fishing village.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20...C3%BCmqi_riots
&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebiya_Kadeer

[Nicholas Scheuer]

THIS one seanz. Obviously you are unable to make a connection between widespread civil unrest in China, and their ability to meet shipping schedules to WalMart. Here's a clue, if Chinese folks are running the streets shouting slogans, they are not at their workplace like good little Chinese making things just as fast as their fingers can poke the parts in for $0.10/hr.

[seanz]

Manufacturing jobs may return quicker than anticipated. What a sucky deal for the Repubs, eh? Just when so-called conservative CEO's had "outsourced" US manufacturing to crisis levels, opening the way toward dingbat economics, Obama may get tons of credit for "bringing jobs back home".

THIS one seanz. Obviously you are unable to make a connection between widespread civil unrest in China, and their ability to meet shipping schedules to WalMart. Here's a clue, if Chinese folks are running the streets shouting slogans, they are not at their workplace like good little Chinese making things just as fast as their fingers can poke the parts in for $0.10/hr.

Now if you just had of posted those two together, you would have almost made sense......and still been on the wrong thread.


Why can't problems in China be Chinese problems? Why do they have to be American at their source? There could be a link but "so what?". America isn't the center of the Universe, what if they're selling land to build a Japanese or German factory on?
Would you still relate it back to Red vs Blue?

[PeterSibley]

Why can't problems in China be Chinese problems? Why do they have to be American at their source? There could be a link but "so what?". America isn't the center of the Universe, what if they're selling land to build a Japanese or German factory on?
Would you still relate it back to Red vs Blue?

Hairytick!!! ...EVERYTHING relates back to American politics or else it tooooo boring to even notice . There is no other world out there . America is ALL!!!

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Nothing whatsoever to do with a fishing village.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_2009_Ürümqi_riots
&
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebiya_Kadeer

Well, yes, the Uyghurs have been rioting regularly for quite a while. However that's on the far side of the country from Wukan. As far as I know the riots in Uyghur country are generally met with police occupations and mass arrests. I don't think the cops have been chased out of a town of 20,000 people before. The struggle over there is different as well, with an ethnic conflict, and separatists fueling the fire.

BrianY had it right, Wukan's troubles are all about CREAM, Yuan Yuan bills y'all.

[seanz]

Well, yes, the Uyghurs have been rioting regularly for quite a while. However that's on the far side of the country from Wukan. As far as I know the riots in Uyghur country are generally met with police occupations and mass arrests. I don't think the cops have been chased out of a town of 20,000 people before. The struggle over there is different as well, with an ethnic conflict, and separatists fueling the fire.

BrianY had it right, Wukan's troubles are all about CREAM, Yuan Yuan bills y'all.

How right you are, and, may I add, as always. Perhaps a small explanation that the unrest I linked to was in no way part of the problem in Wukan was in order and that the post was merely an illustration of how widespread and diverse social justice issues can be in China? I will try harder in future.

Some people (not you, of course) have a very bad habit, when recent unrest is mentioned in China, of immediately saying "Tiananman Square" as if this adds something to the conversation. It's a lot like those that always say "Hitler" when others are trying to discuss extremist politics. An irksome habit.
This does annoy me and then I get terse and fail to communicate properly. When this happens I don't just let myself down, I let you and the rest of the WBF down too.
My sincere apologies.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

My sincere apologies.

No need to apologize, we're all trying to figure China out. Like in any country comprised of 1/6 of all the people in the world, it can be a nuanced place. Then again, Rush told me that they're to be called Chi-Coms because there's nothing more to know about them besides the fact that they're Commies.

The people in Wukan seem to want what could be called democratic control over their ancestral lands. They go fishing, then probably have to sell to a gov. approved buyer. They need veggies, and have to buy from middle men who bought from non-local producers since there isn't enough local production. They want to establish a local produce economy, but have apparently been thwarted by their own local politicians in favor of real estate developers. Apparently the government hasn't deemed Wukan worthy of vegetable production. Chaos ensues, roads and fisheries get closed by force. I find it all very interesting. Hopefully nobody else gets killed over it.

[Waddie]

No need to apologize, we're all trying to figure China out. Like in any country comprised of 1/6 of all the people in the world, it can be a nuanced place. Then again, Rush told me that they're to be called Chi-Coms because there's nothing more to know about them besides the fact that they're Commies.

The people in Wukan seem to want what could be called democratic control over their ancestral lands. They go fishing, then probably have to sell to a gov. approved buyer. They need veggies, and have to buy from middle men who bought from non-local producers since there isn't enough local production. They want to establish a local produce economy, but have apparently been thwarted by their own local politicians in favor of real estate developers. Apparently the government hasn't deemed Wukan worthy of vegetable production. Chaos ensues, roads and fisheries get closed by force. I find it all very interesting. Hopefully nobody else gets killed over it.

Sounds like the USA.....are we commies, too?

regards,
Waddie

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

We're on our way, Waddie. We'll get there too if the True Patriots can't stop the President's Socialist agenda.

[Waddie]

We're on our way, Waddie. We'll get there too if the True Patriots can't stop the President's Socialist agenda.

Gee, and I thought Obama was one of our better Republican presidents, what with continuing most of Bush's policies and all ???

regards,
Waddie

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Yeah, I'm not too good at political labels. I just repeated what some serious men in suits were saying.

[Waddie]

Yeah, I'm not too good at political labels. I just repeated what some serious men in suits were saying.

Well, if they said it on TV then we know it must be true. My TV wouldn't lie to me....

regards,
Waddie

[seanz]

No need to apologize, we're all trying to figure China out. Like in any country comprised of 1/6 of all the people in the world, it can be a nuanced place. Then again, Rush told me that they're to be called Chi-Coms because there's nothing more to know about them besides the fact that they're Commies.

The people in Wukan seem to want what could be called democratic control over their ancestral lands. They go fishing, then probably have to sell to a gov. approved buyer. They need veggies, and have to buy from middle men who bought from non-local producers since there isn't enough local production. They want to establish a local produce economy, but have apparently been thwarted by their own local politicians in favor of real estate developers. Apparently the government hasn't deemed Wukan worthy of vegetable production. Chaos ensues, roads and fisheries get closed by force. I find it all very interesting. Hopefully nobody else gets killed over it.

Hopefully not too many more get killed is the best we can hope for, sadly.

It helps to know that the Taiping rebellion was not a secretary's strike.

The real issue might be that, all over the world, it is getting harder and harder for people to grow their own vegetables.......

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Apparently the villagers have not yet been mowed down in a hail of bullets. The Chi-Coms seem to be loosing their edge.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8965879/Wukan-siege-rebel-Chinese-villagers-demand-body-of-dead-rights-campaigner.html

The people of Wukan, mainly poor farmers and fishermen continue to run their daily lives free of all government control.

Administration is now conducted from the village temples.
A commune has effectively taken root with everyone mucking in to man barricades and fetch supplies down the maze of dirt tracks because police are blockading the main routes.
"We want Wednesday's march to be peaceful. We support the Central Government and the Party, but not the local officials," said Mr Lin.

Mr Lin, if that is his real name, is obviously suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, so understand that his last statement is not to be believed.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

With respect, not so, dear Doctor. This is China syndrome, not Stockholm syndrome.

Problems in China are ALWAYS the fault of corrupt local officials, and the central government is always supported by those who are suffering abuses.

Delete the words "Central Government and the Party" and replace with "The Emperor" and you have the stardard formulation, as used for past two thousand years.

This is because disagreeing with the Central Government/Emperor/Party is VERY VERY BAD; it is rebellion and for that you get topped, never any question about that. Confucius does not approve.

But respectfully drawing the attention of the Emperor/General Secretary of the Communist Party of China to abuses committed in his name by wicked local officials is a very good thing to do and approved by Confucians (though the best plan of all is to drown yourself in your local river - see Dragon Boat Festival).

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Lin knows he is a dead man walking.

[Dr. Arthur Trollingson]

Andrew called it. The emperor was glad to rectify the situation.

Resolution:

A Chinese village protest that tested the ruling Communist Party for over a week ended on Wednesday after officials offered concessions over seized farmland and the death of a village leader, in a rare spectacle of the government backing down to mobilized citizens.

[...]

"Because this matter has been achieved, we won't persist in making noise," village organizer, Yang Semao, told an assembly hall of village representatives and reporters, referring to the protests. He said protest banners would be taken down.


"They've agreed to our initial requests," Yang told Reuters. But he added a caveat: "If the government doesn't meet its commitments, we'll protest again."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BK06720111221

I found this interesting:

Chinese officials sometimes make low-key concessions to local protests, especially after they are over, and also punish protest organizers. But Wukan turned negotiations into a rare public spectacle, watched by foreign reporters and discussed within China -- despite domestic censorship of news.

Whether it means anything or not I don't know. I have the impression that China is a place where people keep their heads down and mind their own business. It seems strange that a localized protest would become a topic of conversation nation-wide.

[Waddie]

I suspect the Chinese leadership is bideing their time.

They were never sorry about Tienanmen Square, but they were embarrassed by it's public spectacle, and waited a while to corral the ring leaders.

regards,
Waddie

[seanz]

I wonder if this sort of corruption might be seen as being bad for investment? The Chinese do punish corruption, especially when it makes them look bad...........

[BrianW]

Why can't problems in China be Chinese problems? Why do they have to be American at their source?

Thank you

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Whether it means anything or not I don't know. I have the impression that China is a place where people keep their heads down and mind their own business. It seems strange that a localized protest would become a topic of conversation nation-wide.

I found that, perhaps because the media is censored and dull, Chinese people delighted in spreading rumours and talking about all the things that they should not mention. Whe I was in Beijing there was one case of a suitcase bomb set by Uighur separatists - a taxi driver told me with great glee that four trains and a plane had been bombed that morning!

We all knew that the number two in North Korea had defected to the South Korean embassy in Beijing, that the North Koreans had attacked the South Korean Embassy and been restrained by the People's Armed Police, and that he was eventually smuggled out of the country to the Philippines although not a word was in the official media.

Consequently I suspect that this story has spread all over China. This will not be good for the villagers of Wukan; least of all their leaders.

[bobbys]

Manufacturing jobs may return quicker than anticipated. What a sucky deal for the Repubs, eh? Just when so-called conservative CEO's had "outsourced" US manufacturing to crisis levels, opening the way toward dingbat economics, Obama may get tons of credit for "bringing jobs back home".

.

Its Republican's fault?.

Hey i was the first one to point out every Chinese restaurant has No5 as ..

5.95 lunch.

No substutions

Pork fried rice.

Egg roll.

Sweet and sour chicken..

Notice they are all working together?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

They all use the same wholesaler!

[bobbys]

They all use the same wholesaler!

.

Darn it another theory shot down!