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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #33181
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I saw these the other day in an auto parts store, about $19.00 for 5 or something dumb.

    $7.00 for 50 on fleabay. That's a little blob of some sort of solder in the middle. Poke your wires in, warm it up, solder wicks up the wire, plastic shrinks. Looks good to me, anyone know anything about em?


  2. #33182
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Used a similar product building a loom for a Landy some years ago. Worked OK and seem waterproof.

    Hot here, working in the garden. So are a couple of Tigers. One very slow and fat, eaten something I expect, or breeding.

  3. #33183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I saw these the other day in an auto parts store, about $19.00 for 5 or something dumb.

    $7.00 for 50 on fleabay. That's a little blob of some sort of solder in the middle. Poke your wires in, warm it up, solder wicks up the wire, plastic shrinks. Looks good to me, anyone know anything about em?

    I'd like a look at them, and the solder specifics. It's very easy to get a dry solder joint that will fail in time and cause unlimited grief when you're trying to find and fix it. At one stage I worked in an electrical/electronic components manufacturer soldering and testing stuff. If the material and specs and technique give a good joint I'd jump on them no worries.

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  4. #33184
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    By the way, they are called wire splice butt connectors. Just sayin'
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  5. #33185
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Found some instructions on line. You put the sleeve over one wire, strip the ends and push the wires together so the strands intermingle, then slide the connector over the join and heat it with a torch. I had thought the solder in the middle was a solid blob, but its open right through, so I can see it making a good connection. Ive ordered a bunch. will report back.

  6. #33186
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    My reference for solar wiring, solar that really works! by colyn rivers, flatly discourages soldering any joints in the system. Good luck with it.

  7. #33187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al G View Post
    My reference for solar wiring, solar that really works! by colyn rivers, flatly discourages soldering any joints in the system. Good luck with it.
    What's the reasoning for not soldering the joints, Al?

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  8. #33188
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    There's an ongoing debate about the merit of soldering wire connections on boats. The most common problem mentioned is that the solder creates a hard spot on the wire which can cause fatigue as the boat moves. The other problem is that you have to cut the wire to disconnect. I pretty much always use spade connectors and then either wrap them in tape or heat shrink, wrap them in heat shrink with glue in it, if I can any, or cover the connection with epoxy. Sometimes I use solder and sometimes I cover a spade connector with solder in situations where I want to be really sure - like with connections at the top of the mast.

    Rick

  9. #33189
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Y'all know how I think teak strip decks are a bad idea .......

    Well, our buddy David has a HR 38 with a foam core glass deck, covered in teak strips, glued, screwed and caulked. The caulking, probably Sika, was wearing out - as it does, separates etc. - so David and Mrs David spent a few horrible weeks ripping out all the caulking, then priming and caulking again with a different product, not Sika, but reportedly good stuff. That was about 3 years ago. Over the last year or so, the black caulking started to break down. Some of it went powdery and some of it turned into a sticky, horrible goop. After much deliberation etc., the caulking manufacturer agreed to not only supply new caulking but also to pay for the labour. A local shipwright was employed to do this. But David's a fussy soul so he wanted to help and that meant I had to help too. I didn't help with removal - the pair of them looked like tar babies during that part - horrific! But I did help with masking it all up - the usual practice is to just prime, run caulking in then sand it all off but David's strips are old and thin so he didn't want to lose too much more through sanding - and I helped with the tape removal part. David and Greg (local shipwright) have been working on it for about a fortnight and I spent two days helping. It was really awful. Now I hate teak decks even more.

    The caulking that failed is a well-known brand and their products are generally really good. This had to have been a bad batch and the company has done the right thing in taking responsibility.

    Rick

  10. #33190
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    There's an ongoing debate about the merit of soldering wire connections on boats. The most common problem mentioned is that the solder creates a hard spot on the wire which can cause fatigue as the boat moves. The other problem is that you have to cut the wire to disconnect. I pretty much always use spade connectors and then either wrap them in tape or heat shrink, wrap them in heat shrink with glue in it, if I can any, or cover the connection with epoxy. Sometimes I use solder and sometimes I cover a spade connector with solder in situations where I want to be really sure - like with connections at the top of the mast.

    Rick
    Oh ok. On Romana there are connectors where required, so all the components can individually be disconnected and removed/replaced without drama. There are a couple of soldered joints where components were supplied with short wiring stubs, which we've connected to wiring and connectors to give the best accessibility to the connectors. We've also sealed all the wiring ends and components where feasible with a waterproofing wiring sealant, and used heat shrinks. We've tried very hard to build in future-proofing and ease of access for maintenance.

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  11. #33191
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    There's this stuff called paint .....
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  12. #33192
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    If you use a spade connector, and slap on heat shrink and epoxy, you are going to cut the wire when the time comes to remove it. These solder butt joins I have found look like they would deal with the hard spot issue, as if a crimped spade join doesn't create a hard spot anyway! I imagine nothing is perfect. I've had enough crimped connectors fall apart due to my ineptitude. I think I'll try these new ones and hope they are quick, easy, idiot proof and effective. The panel,does have waterproof press fit connectors along the line, so no drama disconnecting them, but sheesh, when the time comes I'm not really averse to getting out the side cutters anyway. I reckon it's going to be better than twist and tape.

  13. #33193
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Twist, solder and heat shrink?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  14. #33194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    If you use a spade connector, and slap on heat shrink and epoxy, you are going to cut the wire when the time comes to remove it. These solder butt joins I have found look like they would deal with the hard spot issue, as if a crimped spade join doesn't create a hard spot anyway! I imagine nothing is perfect. I've had enough crimped connectors fall apart due to my ineptitude. I think I'll try these new ones and hope they are quick, easy, idiot proof and effective. The panel,does have waterproof press fit connectors along the line, so no drama disconnecting them, but sheesh, when the time comes I'm not really averse to getting out the side cutters anyway. I reckon it's going to be better than twist and tape.
    I think you're right. I'd still put in connectors in some spots but we've used a different connector than a spade connector anyway. I'd really like to see the butt connectors you've found and would probably use them if they look ok. I'll try to dig up a pic of the connectors on Romana.

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  15. #33195
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    Lets see if this works...


    The brown things in the photo above are two-strand plug/socket connectors. You can see some connected, and the one in my hand not. The black at the wire ends is waterproofing.






    And here are some more plug and play connectors.

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  16. #33196
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    I think that's Phil's question boatfan, but a google search is worth doing. The solder goes soft at 125c and fully melts at 150c.

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  17. #33197
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    Darn, I lost a post with picks.

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  18. #33198
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    The reference to boat fan is confusing. Those connectors don't look waterproof Bruce. My theory is that everything on a boat gets wet. When sailing there is sometimes a fine mist of salt spray everywhere. Everything ends up salt encrusted. Water wicks into anything it can wick into. If you would not be happy with the connection permanently submerged, then it's probably not as good as you want it to be. Electricians tape is completely useless. Heat shrink is no good unless it has goop inside it. If you twist wire together and solder it, even if you remembered to put the heat shrink on first, it's either too small to slide over the joint, or too big to shrink sufficiently to make a tight seal. That's my experience anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm not by any means placing myself on a pedestal and proclaiming the one true way. Balia, and all my boats before her have an appalling mix of every type of wire and join imaginable, some my work, some the work of previous owners. The surprising thing is that most do work. Twist and tape, even twist and masking tape. Yes, masking tape. Household screw clamp fittings. Automotive bullet and spade fittings. Solder. Heat shrink. Liquid lectric tape. And others. These pre soldered, heat shrink, all in one connectors look good, but may not be. Worth a try I reckon.

  19. #33199
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Anyway, the weather. We had the fire on in the house one night last week it was so cold. This week we have 2 36 degree days in a row. Total fire ban in the hills today. Might do a bit of outside work this morning, then go down to Balia. Have bought some aluminium section to make a mount for the solar panel on the davits. It would be good to see if my temporary wiring has melted or caught fire.

  20. #33200
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    What's the reasoning for not soldering the joints, Al?

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    Hi Bruce, I can't remember the reason besides creating a hard spot but I think it has to do with joints melting when something goes wrong. The book is on the boat and I'll try to remember to look it up next time I'm on board. Cheers.

  21. #33201
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    http://www.marinewireandcable.com/20...cable-and.html

    Connectors covered with heat shrink and glue still come apart easily enough. Not epoxy though! Electrical tape is pretty useless but that self-gluing stretchy stuff is really good.

    I don't know the best way to connect wiring. I'm happy enough with the way I do it and it does allow me to pull it all apart when I find I've connected the bilge pump to the radio switch etc. I guess I like spades because I can see whether or not I've achieved a good connection.

    Rick

  22. #33202
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    The reference to boat fan is confusing. Those connectors don't look waterproof Bruce. My theory is that everything on a boat gets wet. When sailing there is sometimes a fine mist of salt spray everywhere. Everything ends up salt encrusted. Water wicks into anything it can wick into. If you would not be happy with the connection permanently submerged, then it's probably not as good as you want it to be. Electricians tape is completely useless. Heat shrink is no good unless it has goop inside it. If you twist wire together and solder it, even if you remembered to put the heat shrink on first, it's either too small to slide over the joint, or too big to shrink sufficiently to make a tight seal. That's my experience anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm not by any means placing myself on a pedestal and proclaiming the one true way. Balia, and all my boats before her have an appalling mix of every type of wire and join imaginable, some my work, some the work of previous owners. The surprising thing is that most do work. Twist and tape, even twist and masking tape. Yes, masking tape. Household screw clamp fittings. Automotive bullet and spade fittings. Solder. Heat shrink. Liquid lectric tape. And others. These pre soldered, heat shrink, all in one connectors look good, but may not be. Worth a try I reckon.
    boatfan asked me how to use the connectors you posted here from ebay. I said that his question is for you, as you posted about them.
    Edited: It looks like boatfan's post has since been deleted. No wonder it's confusing.
    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 12-12-2016 at 04:53 PM.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  23. #33203
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    So in answer to boatfans non existent question, which I think I already answered above which is probably why he deleted it, slide the connector onto a wire, strip the ends of both wires, slide the wires together so the strands intermingle, slide the connector over the join and heat with a small blow torch.

    and in answer to the great debate, I think crimped connections, whether permanent or to spades or bullets or special little plugs, and soldered connections, are probably all OK, and all have a failure mode and point somewhere which will,not be relevant most of the time. 9 times out of 10 it comes down to what's available at the time, and personal preference based on experience, or lack thereof.

  24. #33204
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    Good summary

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  25. #33205
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It's hot down here at Nth Haven! Not sure much work wil get done. Batteries are a bit over 12 instead of a bit under which is nice to see. Fridge running better than it has been. Red charge light on the controller was flashing when I got here. Disconnected panel and reconnected now it's constant red which is its usual state so not sure what that means. I did find instructions for it online but don't have them with me.

  26. #33206
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    All good instructions found. Red flashing just means batteries full. Running fridge and a toilet flush has the red light constant which means panel is charging. Happy face. Hot and sweaty face, but happy.

  27. #33207
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I picked up my sails for JIM yesterday, I'd asked the sailmaker to cut down the sail Jeff gave me to make a mizzen but he set it aside and made me a main and mizzen for the price he quoted for a main. Very nice and thank you !
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  28. #33208
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Excellent tupela!

    Rick

  29. #33209
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    boatfan asked me how to use the connectors you posted here from ebay. I said that his question is for you, as you posted about them.
    Edited: It looks like boatfan's post has since been deleted. No wonder it's confusing.
    Hi Phil

    Yes sorry everyone , its just like you say Phil ....I found the answer after I posted the question....Thanks all.

  30. #33210
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I picked up my sails for JIM yesterday, I'd asked the sailmaker to cut down the sail Jeff gave me to make a mizzen but he set it aside and made me a main and mizzen for the price he quoted for a main. Very nice and thank you !

    Good news Peter .

    Looking forward to seeing them on Jim.

  31. #33211
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Me too!
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #33212
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Very exciting Peter! I can't remember have you made your spars yet? Ready for a hoist on dry land. In your case I guess that would be a Hills Hoist. Much more satisfying than messing around with electrons.

  33. #33213
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Bloody thieves! Because of them we have to lock stuff up. Like my dinghy outboard on the pushpit. Bloody padlock is siezed solid. Had to remove it to fit the solar panel. Luckily the whole back section of the pulpit comes off by removing 2 pins. Bloody thieves. I despise them.

  34. #33214
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Bastards.

  35. #33215
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Very exciting Peter! I can't remember have you made your spars yet? Ready for a hoist on dry land. In your case I guess that would be a Hills Hoist. Much more satisfying than messing around with electrons.
    Main mast, sprit ? and boom made but the plans call for a sprit mizzen but I've gone for a lug mizzen the same area so I've a couple of spars to make for it.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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