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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #31431
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    By the way, I don't fuss with measuring filler. I just add filler til it's about the consistency of peanut butter. If I need to pour it down a hole, I just use less filler - more like tomato sauce. However, since you're using West, you have less time so it may be worth checking the recommended quantities in the Gougeons' book and having it all ready before mixing.

    Rick

  2. #31432
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Huh, topical for me. On a warmish day yesterday arvo I mixed a 100ml of resin and applied it, and the the temperature dropped to around 7c last night, and it has not gone particularly well. It will be OK , just take a while I expect. Trouble with small quantities. But when it's cured I have only to sand the bright finish deck and then it's into the finishing phase.

  3. #31433
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Then you should weigh out 100 gms of resin and 50 of hardener?
    Where's my coffee ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  4. #31434
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Yeah, I've worked a little with epoxy before, and am a scientist by trade. The fact that west system is a volume ratio means Ill be using the pumps or a graduated container. Thanks for the burping tip with those pumps. I'll be keeping an eye on it, and might end up doung as you say. Pumping it out and then mixing once its all out. If utnburps then I can just manually measure and adjust.

    I'll need to make up a zero clearance throat plate for my table saw to cut the timber thin enough to laminate. I'm not actually sure what the timber is, I'll get some photos when I get back up to newcastle, but it seems to be a very dry, brittle timber to me that looks very similar to the "hardwood" mouldings available at bunnings.

    This H3 actually seems to be pretty good to work with so far, hasn't been gumming up the tools or weeping yet, and I've milled a 6m 45 x 140mm plank into 8 lengths of 980 x 45 x 60mm. Then planed them smooth and clamped. Will see how it goes when I have started shaping it next week.

    Sounds like I'll need to buy myself some takeaway containers and a roll of plastic too.

    I might need to pick up some more timber to finish all the 'stringers' I think they are called. I saw somewhere that someone recommended tassie oak. Is there anything a little cheaper thats just as good?

    Tha js a million for all the advice folks, it really makes this a bit less lije fumbling in the dark. Ive found a good youtube series of building a boat in the same style, so am picking up a few tips there. Might need to get myself a thicknesser if a cheap one pops up. Thatll allow me to recycle some free hardwood.
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  5. #31435
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Matt, if you use West run a test for me will you ? Check if the hardener and the resin weigh the same per 100 mls ? Then my scale method would work, I like the method as I don't like sticky measuring containers sitting around .If it doesn't weigh the same I'll stick to an epoxy with the same density for both.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  6. #31436
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Peter, the 4:1 I mentioned above specifies mixing by weight.
    Matt, get some spotted gum from Marshalls.

    Rick

  7. #31437
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I much prefer to use a digital scale to weigh parts when mixing epoxy. I put a container on the scale, zero the scale , add (say) 50 gms of resin then 50 gms of hardener. It's accurate and it works with no waste.I'm using BoteCote ,a 2:1 mix.
    ill stick my oar in here and add a word of warning when mixing by weight to check with manufacturer 'cos the resin and hardener are different weights. I think Bote Cote is something like 100:44 ( just checked - yep it is ) not 2:1 which is the volume measure. I just use the pumps, if they burp I just add a bit!!! Scientific like, although for crucial I redo.
    just a warning for Matt. West could have similar characteristics, Ricks 4:1 by weight is probably it.
    Last edited by andrewpatrol; 09-10-2016 at 07:58 PM.

  8. #31438
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    Default

    I use identical disposable mixing cups. I have used several kinds of epoxy with different ratios. I find that I can accurately measure and mark a mixing cup at the ratio I want, and use the same graduation line distances when I replace the cup. I clean and reuse my old West pumps just to have something reasonable to dispense into the measuring cups from, but the hardener nozzle will clog unless you keep it free from air, dust and moisture. Also very handy, a lot of plastic syringes of various sizes 2.5 up to 40 ml. Mine are almost all gone

    sent from my nerdy phone app
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  9. #31439
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Yep. But with Bote Cote, that 12% or so error doesn't seem to matter much. I get really slack with measuring glue but never had a problem with BC. But with 5 or 4:1 ratios, there's less room for error when adding the hardener, especially with small quantities.

    Rick

  10. #31440
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattDundon View Post
    Yeah, I've worked a little with epoxy before, and am a scientist by trade. The fact that west system is a volume ratio means Ill be using the pumps or a graduated container. Thanks for the burping tip with those pumps. I'll be keeping an eye on it, and might end up doung as you say. Pumping it out and then mixing once its all out. If utnburps then I can just manually measure and adjust.

    I'll need to make up a zero clearance throat plate for my table saw to cut the timber thin enough to laminate. I'm not actually sure what the timber is, I'll get some photos when I get back up to newcastle, but it seems to be a very dry, brittle timber to me that looks very similar to the "hardwood" mouldings available at bunnings.

    This H3 actually seems to be pretty good to work with so far, hasn't been gumming up the tools or weeping yet, and I've milled a 6m 45 x 140mm plank into 8 lengths of 980 x 45 x 60mm. Then planed them smooth and clamped. Will see how it goes when I have started shaping it next week.

    Sounds like I'll need to buy myself some takeaway containers and a roll of plastic too.

    I might need to pick up some more timber to finish all the 'stringers' I think they are called. I saw somewhere that someone recommended tassie oak. Is there anything a little cheaper thats just as good?

    Tha js a million for all the advice folks, it really makes this a bit less lije fumbling in the dark. Ive found a good youtube series of building a boat in the same style, so am picking up a few tips there. Might need to get myself a thicknesser if a cheap one pops up. Thatll allow me to recycle some free hardwood.
    You will probably also find that the hardener pump stem gums up, so it sticks. And if the epoxy is cold and viscous, the springs are not really strong enough to fully lift the pumps. Either way, pull the pump top right up on each stroke. They really are pretty crappy to use and do lead to errors. Going by weight seems to be much more reliable, and you can infinitely control the total amount mixed. Sometimes even one pump stroke is more than you need.

  11. #31441
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I'm using BoteCote ,a 2:1 mix.
    So do I. It's easier to mix than 3, 4, or 5:1 ratios. And it smells nicer too....

    The easiest to use of all is that 'quick' epoxy that comes in small tubes, which is a 1:1 mix and so leaves even more room for error. But it's nowhere near as strong, and you wouldn't use it in boatbuilding.



    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    By the way, I don't fuss with measuring filler. I just add filler til it's about the consistency of peanut butter. If I need to pour it down a hole, I just use less filler - more like tomato sauce.
    I do the same. If you're using wood flour as the filler, remember that it goes a good deal darker once it's wet, and stays that way.



    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    Bote Cote is ... 2:1 which is the volume measure. I just use the pumps, if they burp I just add a bit!!!
    Ditto, again. I've only once had a failure, and then I cured it by slapping on a bit more hardener.... But on the other hand I don't use epoxy much, and hardly ever for critical applications.



    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    ... with Bote Cote, that 12% or so error doesn't seem to matter much. I get really slack with measuring glue but never had a problem with BC. But with 5 or 4:1 ratios, there's less room for error when adding the hardener, especially with small quantities.
    Exactly -- it's easier to mix, and with more leeway for error in proportioning. With smallish quantities you can quite readily mix Bote-Cote by eye.



    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    You will probably also find that the hardener pump stem gums up, so it sticks. And if the epoxy is cold and viscous, the springs are not really strong enough to fully lift the pumps. Either way, pull the pump top right up on each stroke.
    Yes, I always lift each pump handle back up myself too, and not rely on the springs. But my two present Bote-Cote pumps are each about fifteen years old, and (with that 'lifting' proviso) are still working okay.


    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  12. #31442
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I much prefer to use a digital scale to weigh parts when mixing epoxy. I put a container on the scale, zero the scale , add (say) 50 gms of resin then 50 gms of hardener. It's accurate and it works with no waste.I'm using BoteCote ,a 2:1 mix.
    I've gone back to marking a scale on a pop stick with BoteCote. Doesn't seem to matter which method I use I end up with either excess base or hardener left over.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  13. #31443
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewpatrol View Post
    ill stick my oar in here and add a word of warning when mixing by weight to check with manufacturer 'cos the resin and hardener are different weights. I think Bote Cote is something like 100:44 ( just checked - yep it is ) not 2:1 which is the volume measure. I just use the pumps, if they burp I just add a bit!!! Scientific like, although for crucial I redo.
    just a warning for Matt. West could have similar characteristics, Ricks 4:1 by weight is probably it.
    I haven't had a mix fail to work using the 2:1 by weight with the scale so it must have some flexibility built in.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  14. #31444
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    My daughter Jarrah at Jerusalem Creek, Black Rocks. Check out the paperbark in the background, can you spot the snake taking a drink? Not a real one.


    It was only when I looked at the photo at home that I noticed it. Ain't imagination wonderful?
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  15. #31445
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I haven't had a mix fail to work using the 2:1 by weight with the scale so it must have some flexibility built in.
    Bote Cote makes a gel type epoxy called Pox-y-Glue or something like that anyway it's 1:1 and they say to just measure it by eye is good enough. So I'm reckoning you're probably right Peter, I don't think I've had a dodgy mix either and keep forgetting what number I'm up to.

  16. #31446
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I've often used weights for Botecote for smaller-than-a-single-pump quantities and it's never failed.

  17. #31447
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Some of you guys seem to over-complicate this. It ain't rocket fuel we're mixing. A couple of lines on a paddlepop stick... ie, how much glue do I want in this pot... OK... away I go. I've made thousands of mixes without a failure... I hate to think how many 20 litre drums I've gone through.

  18. #31448
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Some of you guys seem to over-complicate this. It ain't rocket fuel we're mixing. A couple of lines on a paddlepop stick... ie, how much glue do I want in this pot... OK... away I go. I've made thousands of mixes without a failure... I hate to think how many 20 litre drums I've gone through.
    As I said...my technique.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  19. #31449
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    A day sanding, yuk. But she's just about ready for paint. Topsides or bottomsides first?

  20. #31450
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It was a glorious sunny day here today and the water looked so inviting off Largs. I spent the morning cleaning up some tree debris from our drawn-out tree lopping. The yard looks much better for the effort and I got some life-bringing sun and air. Reveal: I have a recurrent mild depression that my GP and I are discussing and keeping an eye on, and daylight activities are quite medicinal. This afternoon I bit the bullet on Nanjera's trailer. I had a second opinion on the undercart, to the effect that the only thing throw-outable was the springs, so I spent some blasphemous hours unbolting and demolishing the bits attached to the axle and springs. All but one of the many bolts sheared under the repeated load of a 13/16th inch ring spanner and large rubber mallet. One actually, miraculously, undid. So tomorrow I'll clean up the surface rust from the axle, hit it with rust converter, and see how bad the damage actually looks. It's a 40mm x 40mm solid bar and I reckon a mm or 2 has evaporated all round. If it's salvage worthy, I'll get bolts tomorrow or Tuesday and reassemble the trailer ready for a launch next weekend. I might even lash out and get a sailmaker to add a reefing point in the new mainsail. Nanjera is a lovely boat, but not one I'd like to turn my inexperienced son out in for gulf cruises. He is dead keen to go cruising all round our gulf and beyond in it, and for an inexperienced sailor I can see irretrievable whoopses. I made a very poor decision or two when I bought it.

    On the subject of dreams-out-of-reach, I've recently had a hankering (again) to do some extended cruising with Sheila in a boat she'll actually agree to come sailing in. The short list of boats includes a Seawind 850 catamaran and nothing at this stage, although that could possibly change if I spend some dosh and do some chartering.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  21. #31451
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'm sure I'll be fine 😂 I deal with explosive, radioactive and corrosive contaminants at work. Piece of cake.

    Have also got myself 100 pastry bags to allow me to 'pipe' the mixture on so there's less stuffing around and it goes where I want it to the first time. Looking at getting a block on North Arm Cove. No residential stuff allowed, but If I do a market garden I can throw a shed on it. Get myself a generator and I could run my power tools. Solar power to charge my 18v gear and provide light.
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  22. #31452
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Matt, I used big syringes to apply fillets, and the back of a plastic spoon to smooth them to a nice concave shape. Then a flat stick to wipe off any excess. I was very happy with all that. Similar to apply a flat bead to mating gluing surfaces. Cut the syringe back to a big hole and you can suck the fillet mix or glue mix up from a cup. Nitrile gloves are mandatory
    Last edited by brucemoffatt; 09-11-2016 at 05:34 AM.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  23. #31453
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Standing on Hastings Point today working on the site set up plan for the big November event and looking out to sea. Bright sunshine, fairly smooth sea and a light SE-SW wind...my comment was, nice day to sail north. Sigh.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  24. #31454
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Back of a plastic spoon is a good idea! Cheap tool too! I'll stick with the bags for piping, not much waste and they are very very cheap compared to syringes. 💉
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  25. #31455
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I've always used paddlepop sticks, rounded spatulas and the like for fillets. Hold at the same angle for consistent size of fillet. I made up a tool from a busted screwdriver.... welded on a 20mm or so ball bearing too. The best tool for clearing fillets is a paddlepop stick that's cut off at an angle. It's fast and you can run it up the contact line to get a clear edge

  26. #31456
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post


    On the subject of dreams-out-of-reach, I've recently had a hankering (again) to do some extended cruising with Sheila in a boat she'll actually agree to come sailing in. The short list of boats includes a Seawind 850 catamaran and nothing at this stage, although that could possibly change if I spend some dosh and do some chartering.
    Another Bruce formerly residing down our street owned a Seawind 850 the older model similar deck layout to the S 24 . I always thought they where a very well built robust craft with adequate clearance underneath to venture offshore . The lack of shelter could simply be solved with a stainless tubular structure encorporating a large Bimini and clear side covers,or just building a lightweight dog house structure. Bruce,old boat is probably still kicking around here somewhere .

  27. #31457
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Bruce, working with rusty old steel and corroded bolts doesn't sound like a lot of fun. But probably a nice week to be doing it weather wise. Don't really see how buying Najerra could be a mistake. She's a Hartley 16, she floats, she sails. For James some cruising around the Goolwa lakes and Coorong might be a better bet than the gulf. Long distances in the gulf and sheltered harbours few and far between. 25 knots of wind is frequent and not ideal, reef or no reef.

  28. #31458
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Nanjera is a lovely boat, but not one I'd like to turn my inexperienced son out in for gulf cruises. He is dead keen to go cruising all round our gulf and beyond in it, and for an inexperienced sailor I can see irretrievable whoopses. I made a very poor decision or two when I bought it.
    I don't know how you can say that Bruce - you'll always be able to sell it again. Also I think it'd be the ideal boat for your inexperienced son to gain experience in - despite the outcomes that Hartley racers and others who push them hard might experience when they go that bit too far, I reckon they are a very forgiving boat and, unless he gets a bit silly, I can't see him getting into too much trouble on it.

    I've been hit by big squalls on Darwin harbour in years past on my Hartley that should otherwise have bought me undone, but because I've always taken it pretty easy on her - i.e. never raced her and never over-reached my expectations of her (other than sailing over and back from Mandorah with 8 on board a few times) I've always found her a wonderfully safe and stable boat. Mine was built in 1967 and may possibly be a little heavier than modern ones.
    Larks

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  29. #31459
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Easy enough to make a heavier centreboard for a TS 16. No good for racing but a bit more security for cruising. It would also not be too difficult to rig a self-draining cockpit and companionway hatch for a TS.

    Anyway, Bruce, you have Romana, which Howard Rice is about to demonstrate, should be capable of going anywhere!

    Rick

  30. #31460
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Scamp is looking very good although a longer version would have been my preference .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  31. #31461
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to Bunnings I go. I just unloaded 400kg of concrete mix from the Missus' car.... I mean truck - and that's after 300kg yesterday. It's back there for one last bag of render and today I learn a new trade... rendering. The concrete on the new steps was still too green to strip it when "we" rendered the retaining wall yesterday, so I get to finish it today.

    That pre-mix dry concrete doesn't go far. We had to "go Cambodian" with the steps... and drop in some old bricks, etc to get it done... it's only 900 mm wide with one tread and two risers.... and it took 16 bags plus a lot of "fill". I've got a 1m wide path about 2.5m long to do out the back. I'm going Cambodian on it too. Fill it with rubble and cover it about 30mm... which is more cover than my Khmer mates would use.

    I've had a gutful of my old German impact drill too. It jumps out of gear constantly... so I'll try a Cheap Chinese Ozito and see what $200 will do these days. I've got to sink some very deep bolts for the car hoist.... about 350mm in - and they're about 18-20mm diameter... not that I can get to them yet.

  32. #31462
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    Another Bruce formerly residing down our street owned a Seawind 850 the older model similar deck layout to the S 24 . I always thought they where a very well built robust craft with adequate clearance underneath to venture offshore . The lack of shelter could simply be solved with a stainless tubular structure encorporating a large Bimini and clear side covers,or just building a lightweight dog house structure. Bruce,old boat is probably still kicking around here somewhere .
    That sounds like an experimental they did before the production run of 25 850s. I thought it was a little bit longer than the 850, but there wasn't much info available on it.

    I probably told you about the time we went for a ride on an 850 when we were living in Sydney, but maybe not. A very good friend had come over for the boat show and signed me up for a test ride in the 850, without telling me what he'd done. A couple of months or so later I got a phone call from Seawind informing me that my day out on the harbour was arranged for the following Saturday, and could I meet them at a dock at [somewhere, I can't remember]. It took a couple of minutes to figure out what had happened and I explained that I wasn't in the market, but they were very gracious and invited me along anyway. So Sheila and the kids, then around 18 months and 3 years old, came to drop me off. The kids were dressed up in sailor suits. I have a photo of them in my wallet even today. Well, when the skipper saw them he changed his mind about only having room on board for me, and all four of us went for a ride along with a half a dozen or so actual sales prospects. We were wined and dined royally. I told a brief version of my Seawind 24 story to the hired crew so they put the 850 through all the hoops they could in a fairly calm harbour, and they made her dance. Of course, I've always wanted to take the helm of one on a longer trip ever since then, but I haven't seen any used for chartering recently - they were built late 1980s - early 1990s.

    Woodenboat content: the mate who signed me up was the part-owner of Sobraon, the 23 footer built by Alan Rice. She has been back on the market in SA recently.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  33. #31463
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    More sanding, the archaeology of the deck is………….. interesting for 4 mm ply. Several layers not all compatible. Start again I think. Punched down the small nails, a mixture of steel and copper I reckon.

  34. #31464
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    More sanding, the archaeology of the deck is………….. interesting for 4 mm ply. Several layers not all compatible. Start again I think. Punched down the small nails, a mixture of steel and copper I reckon.
    Sounds like my bathroom ceiling. I thought a bit of sanding and a bit of flushing compound would see it right. But once I started sanding on Thursday or Friday or whenever it was it took about 3 nanoseconds to decide to rip it down and do a new one. New ceiling is now in, cornices done, first coat of flushing done. Looks flat.

  35. #31465
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Sounds like my bathroom ceiling. I thought a bit of sanding and a bit of flushing compound would see it right. But once I started sanding on Thursday or Friday or whenever it was it took about 3 nanoseconds to decide to rip it down and do a new one. New ceiling is now in, cornices done, first coat of flushing done. Looks flat.
    I'm really, really bad at plastering ceilings .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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