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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #31396
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Seconded, I don't have any but I'd love a set.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  2. #31397
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I can't see the pics for some reason, probably my iPad. Those jaws are even better if you double the height of the jaws by welding a bit of steel on them.

  3. #31398
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I can't see the pics for some reason, probably my iPad. Those jaws are even better if you double the height of the jaws by welding a bit of steel on them.
    I could see the pics earlier this morning but not any more.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  4. #31399
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I can't see the pics for some reason, probably my iPad. Those jaws are even better if you double the height of the jaws by welding a bit of steel on them.
    Any secrets for downloading full sized pictures from an IPad ?

  5. #31400
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    I can't see the pics for some reason, probably my iPad. Those jaws are even better if you double the height of the jaws by welding a bit of steel on them.

    No need to weld anything on them. I made up some extension bits for a task out of bits of hard wood screwed to each side of the jaws, after removing the plastic face/grip bits. Mine also came with some other face bits for holding logs/firewood
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

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  6. #31401
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Just had 3 great days camping at Black Rocks in the Bungalung National Park, photos to follow. Had a tad of adventure when we decided to push our luck with an incoming tide and predominately sheer rockfaces. I accidentally got all of that on video.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  7. #31402
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    Default

    I'm determined not to be surprised after Tumble Gum and TYalgum, so tell me how to pronounce Bungalung please.

    sent from my nerdy phone app
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  8. #31403
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection


    bund-ja-lung
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  9. #31404
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    There's a range of Cetol. John B reckons regular Cetol is the same as Cetol Marine. Cetol Marine is dearer and only seems to come in small tins. I haven't tried Cetol Deck but I assume it's for house decks. I wouldn't use any oily product on a boat deck as I like to stand on a deck rather than go skating on it. I'd use regular Cetol or Cetol Filter 7 Plus on coaming, cabinsides, rubbing strips etc., or Cetol Marine if I've already been silly enough to buy some from Whitworth's at about double the price of regular Cetol that I'm painting my whole house with.

    Rick

  10. #31405
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It's bung-a-lung if you're a smoker.

    Rick

  11. #31406
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Matt, why don't you get a bit of marine ply from Mr Plywood for that centreboard? Plywood is great for shaping foils, it's not a big piece and it'll be a lot more stable than H3 radiata. A sticky centreboard will really annoy you.

    Rick

  12. #31407
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    2 layers of 9mm for JIM's centre board and the laminates make it easy to get the shape right.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  13. #31408
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I just went off exactly what John's plans said (H3 radiata pine or similar timber), it will be encased in a fair amount of fibreglass anyway, now you mention it though, marine ply would probably have been the go if I'd thought about it. It's much more rigid when laminated and just generally stronger for all the shackles and fittings too..... maybe I'll just head to Mr Plywood and see how much that much ply will cost me. might even see if there's any marine ply with a nicer veneer than the standard ply that came with the boat.

    Can you buy 5mmish thick strips of a nice timber to do a deck over the plywood base? I really liked the caledonian oak deck that someone posted earlier,
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  14. #31409
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    It's bung-a-lung if you're a smoker.

    Rick
    That's what I was wondering

    sent from my nerdy phone app
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.

  15. #31410
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattDundon View Post
    I just went off exactly what John's plans said (H3 radiata pine or similar timber), it will be encased in a fair amount of fibreglass anyway, now you mention it though, marine ply would probably have been the go if I'd thought about it. It's much more rigid when laminated and just generally stronger for all the shackles and fittings too..... maybe I'll just head to Mr Plywood and see how much that much ply will cost me. might even see if there's any marine ply with a nicer veneer than the standard ply that came with the boat.

    Can you buy 5mmish thick strips of a nice timber to do a deck over the plywood base? I really liked the caledonian oak deck that someone posted earlier,
    Kiwis are a bit fond of radiata since that's about all they have left now ..... and I'm guessing good plywood might be a bit dear over there too. H3 is just treated pine and behaves like any green timber.

    Yes, you can get plywood with a nice veneer finish. Fijian cedar ply is nice but check its weight. Some marine ply is a bit heavy.

    If you really MUST lay strips on your deck then you really should glass the ply deck first and then glue the strips to the glass-sheathed plywood. There's only two timbers that are available that I'd use (but there are others). The best is teak. The second best is PNG rosewood.

    Rick

  16. #31411
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I did some posts back on making a centreboard for the Yellowtail. We used Oregon and carbon fibre... no real reason for the carbon fibre except that I was mucking around with it at the time





    A mate who is a dual world champion in 18'ers in a boat he built, gave me a hand. I noticed the other day that my current paint stirrer is the profile we used (same as that winning 18)





    That white spot is the pivot point, which is done with epoxy

    Pouring the lead




  17. #31412
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Couple more





    Glue line test. Note the orientation of the boards btw


  18. #31413
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Nice looking bit of oregon. Not easy to get that now. Peel ply - peel ply is very nice stuff to use.

    When they lay up 18s etc. now with carbon, they use pre-something .... It's kept in the freezer, laid into or onto the mould while still cold then bunged into the oven.

    Rick

  19. #31414
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  20. #31415
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Nice looking bit of oregon. Not easy to get that now. Peel ply - peel ply is very nice stuff to use.

    When they lay up 18s etc. now with carbon, they use pre-something .... It's kept in the freezer, laid into or onto the mould while still cold then bunged into the oven.

    Rick
    prepreg
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

    LPBC Beneficiary

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  21. #31416
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    You guys rock! those photos will be very handy. you can pour the lead directly in to the wood without it burning?! That'll save a hell of a lot of hassle. I'll be using a router and guide rails to get the perfect profile on my centreboard similar to this. A friend is giving me a big bucket of lead to melt down and use for the weight. is it true that the heavier the better for the centreboard? the plans only have a 100x100x50mm square. I could easily double it...

    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  22. #31417
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Nice looking bit of oregon. Not easy to get that now.
    This is a bit I inherited with my new house, twenty years ago. Fifteen inches by about four feet. I've been looking for a good use for it ever since....

    Mike
    Visit us to see how we help people complete classic boats authentically.

  23. #31418
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    IIRC, I got the Oregon for that board from Trend Timbers at McGraths Hill / Windsor.

  24. #31419
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    you obviously need to build another boat!! that would make a perfect centreboard.
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  25. #31420
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattDundon View Post
    You guys rock! those photos will be very handy. you can pour the lead directly in to the wood without it burning?! That'll save a hell of a lot of hassle. I'll be using a router and guide rails to get the perfect profile on my centreboard similar to this. A friend is giving me a big bucket of lead to melt down and use for the weight. is it true that the heavier the better for the centreboard? the plans only have a 100x100x50mm square. I could easily double it...

    I keyed it back into the board by boring a few holes into the sides of the excavation, those"fingers" weren't letting go. The screws were to hold it all together should the heat upset the epoxy holding the 2 layers together. I pulled them afterward and filled the holes.

    Your 100x100x50mm is about 6 kg if I calculated right, probably enough. Whatever Mr Welsford called for.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  26. #31421
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I like that technique of shaping the foil. I'd still want to gradate the strips to a rough foil shape so I could minimise waste and work for the router. You'd also need a foil profile cradle when you flip the workpiece over to the other side. I also lime the idea of making a middle fore and aft layer of strips to help reinforce the foil for the purpose I have in mind, which is the rudder for Looe.

    BTW PeterI slowly sharpened those jointer knives on the linisher. Six second bursts holding the bevel flat, then after two goes in succession I could feel the knives heat up to the point of being nearly too hot to hold and then I let them cool down until shed temp' and then go at them again. Took about 20 goes to get rid of all the chips and then a quick rub with 600 grit W&D to get rid of the burr and onto the 800 and 6000 water stones. Sharp as, so much so that I nicked my left index finger when resetting the knives, and quite deeply too. The claret flowed with ease from the finger tip! Anyway I fired up the jointer and it's like a new machine! No feed-in chatter whatsoever.
    Jarndyce and Jarndyce

    The Mighty Pippin
    Mirror 30141
    Looe
    Dragon KA93

  27. #31422
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattDundon View Post
    You guys rock! those photos will be very handy. you can pour the lead directly in to the wood without it burning?! That'll save a hell of a lot of hassle. I'll be using a router and guide rails to get the perfect profile on my centreboard similar to this. A friend is giving me a big bucket of lead to melt down and use for the weight. is it true that the heavier the better for the centreboard? the plans only have a 100x100x50mm square. I could easily double it...

    No! Stick to the specs, especially re weight distribution and the rig. JW's a great designer - use his guidance!

    Rick

  28. #31423
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    No! Stick to the specs, especially re weight distribution and the rig. JW's a great designer - use his guidance!

    Rick
    Haha, will do, on one hand you guys are saying to use Marine Ply instead of the H3 that john recommended, then also saying not to differ from his plans at all. I get it though, some things are variable, and some things aren't, I need a bit more sailing experience to see exactly what difference it'll make. either way I can always add weight later. a bit harder to remove it.

    I ordered in my epoxy fillers and tools today, $450 into the boat in one hit. thats a big chunk for me, but it'll be good to have all I need to finish it. Ended up going with the West system and forking out for the hand pumps. It just seems like it'll be easier for me to make lots of small batches quickly with those pumps, there is also an additive for hulls that increases abrasion resistance and reduces permeability even further and it came in cheaper than the bote cote in the end. Though bote cote would be much easier to mix volume:volume or weight:weight with its 1:2 mix ratio.

    Also, do any of you know how I should be installing these stringers that form the skeleton inside the gunwales? I tried to flex one of the pieces of hardwood the previous owner had pre-cut and it snapped before it reached enough flex. should I be soaking or steaming them? or cutting them thinner and laminating a couple together with epoxy?
    Matthew Dundon BMSc&Mgt, MEIA

    "Jack of all trades, master of none"

  29. #31424
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I hate those WEST pumps. My bet is you will too, once they burp on you.

    WEST is no harder to mix than anything else. I do it in a way that allows me to mix even ultra small batches quickly and accurately. I use paddlepop sticks and straight-sided yoghurt containers. Draw the final mix level on the stick - I normally use a pencil, but a pen will do, although the ink runs a bit. Then eyeball another line in at half that... then two more lines into that half to split that into half into three - so, you've now got an accurate 5 parts and 1 part line. Fill container to the second last line with resin, top up with hardener to the top line.

    Works every single time and you have an infinitely variable batch size.... If you hiccup in the process, which I've done maybe once per 300 mixes, just grab another stick and mark it up to adjust.

    If it's a large mix, transfer it to a flat container before adding the glue or filler powder. I use takeaway Chinese containers for that. For really large mixes, I use ice-cream containers. Don't re-use the mixed glue containers.

  30. #31425
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    West pumps are a pain. A good idea but unreliable. However, there's a way to use them. Keep all your jars, tins etc., then, when you pump out epoxy, pump the resin into the container you intend to use. Then pump the hardener into a separate container. Then mix it. The reason for this rigmarole is that sometimes the pumps blurt out half goop and half air and you don't then know if you have a correct mix. If you've pumped them into the same container, you're stuffed.

    Yes, steaming or bending is the way to go with those stringers. As you're probably only needing to bend a couple of stringers anyway, I'd laminate them. You can laminate them in place but you need plenty of plastic and a truckload of clamps. Or you can make up a form and mould them over that. Both approaches are easier than making a steam box, getting a burner, kettle etc.

    What sort of wood are the stringers?

    I've used a lot of H3. Sap oozes out of it, it warps, gums up the tools, is often difficult to plane. But there's good H3 too - we used a lot of it when building a roof over our deck here. But plywood is more reliable and its laminates are a great guide when shaping. It would be interesting to know why JW specified H3 .... or similar? What's similar to H3?

    Rick

  31. #31426
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Hmm, Ian posted while I was posting. Just a note on West mixes. The stuff goes off really quickly, especially as the weather warms up. Don't make large mixes. The larger the mix, the faster it'll gel. Only make large mixes when you're going to quickly dump it and spread it, as you do when sheathing a deck or hull. Don't leave mixed resin anywhere near anything flammable as it can get really hot when going off if there's just a little too much hardener. By the way, the West licencee in Australia makes another resin, 4:1, that's equal in quality to West but about 30% cheaper. PM me if you want the contact details.

    Rick

  32. #31427
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I much prefer to use a digital scale to weigh parts when mixing epoxy. I put a container on the scale, zero the scale , add (say) 50 gms of resin then 50 gms of hardener. It's accurate and it works with no waste.I'm using BoteCote ,a 2:1 mix.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  33. #31428
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Then you should weigh out 100 gms of resin and 50 of hardener?

  34. #31429
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Gibbs View Post
    I like that technique of shaping the foil. I'd still want to gradate the strips to a rough foil shape so I could minimise waste and work for the router. You'd also need a foil profile cradle when you flip the workpiece over to the other side..
    Looks to me like the ends are left square, so just flip it over, position the jig and away you go.

  35. #31430
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Yes, that's what Greg does too. But I don't think you can do that so easily with West as its ratios are volume ratios, not weight. Of course if the resin and hardener are equal in weight, then it's fine. Otherwise, you'd just find out the weights and recalculate accordingly.

    Most of the time, I'm mixing very small quantities, for gluing. I use little shot cups from a party shop for the quantities then mix it in a soup tin. The cups come with measurements on the side. They cost a few cents each.

    Where West is worst, in my opinion, is for laminating. Once it starts to gel, it's gone. If you're halfway through a laminating job and that happens, it can ruin the whole thing. So, get to know your goop before you take on anything like that. West starts to stink as it begins to gel. Once you detect that smell, move quickly to minimise the damage.

    Rick

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