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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #49211
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    One more dyneema anecdote;
    I toured a dance show many moons ago which included these matrix (movie) style stunts on stage, and we used to splice 12mm climbing rope to the dyneema.
    We would run the dyneema from the performer to the blocks, and the riggers operating the systems would handle the 12mm rope. The advatages of having the climbing rope inline were handling (clearly) but also, dyneema doesn't stretch (after its been broken in). If you drop a performer onto it it can snap. (Your average person, if they fall, at about a meter into the fall they can weight around a metric ton). The climbing rope has some elasticity, so it would absorb the jolt.


    There - see what you've done!
    You've turned me into a zealot!!!!
    Which is why you don't use dyneema for mooring lines.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  2. #49212
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I hate wire halyards. But I can't really see how replacing it with thin dyneema provides much advantage apart from weight saving. I have just double braid halyards and I think they're perfect. Stretch is negligible and easy to tension up anyway. 12 - 14mm halyards are so easy to handle. If I had wire halyards, I'd replace the blocks and winches to take rope of a good thickness for handling.
    My problem is I don't have easily changeable blocks. Galvanised mast fittings with bronze sheaves, sized for wire.

  3. #49213
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It's a common problem. Some blocks for wire are actually just wide enough but not usually. I'd change them if you can but if not, well, maybe dyneema but I'd have a good look at a test piece before changing my halyards. Are yours wire spliced onto double braid or just wire?
    Rick

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  4. #49214
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    IMG_20200522_101119428.jpgIMG_20200522_101119428.jpg Although this not boat related allmost wooden boat associated. Thelma received a request for 'trauma teddy's' from the children's ward at Westmead Hospital in Sydney. These are the Covid 19 lock up trauma teddy's' from the good ship 'Tui of Opua' in Newcastle NSW

  5. #49215
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    They're so fantastic!

    Things you do when living on one of our country's loveliest wooden boats will always be MOST welcome on this thread!

    Bruce, the smoked salmon - wonderful! I'll sign up for the next lesson - thanks!!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  6. #49216
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    My 'new' main halyard is some sort of dyneema/exotic. Went on in about 15. I think it's 10mm including its cover, it has a second antichafe cover over the first 8 or 10 metres or so in order to always have it on the sheave including when reefed.
    It's done a few miles, no problem to handle.
    Last edited by John B; 05-22-2020 at 09:23 AM.

  7. #49217
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    My 'new' main halyard is some sort of dyneema/exotic. Went on in about 15. I think it's 10mm including its cover, it has a second antichafe cover over the first 8 or 10 metres or so in oder to always have it on the sheave including when reefed.
    It's done a few miles, no problem to handle.
    That sounds like a good setup. Did it replace wire?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  8. #49218
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Rope to wire. Actually braid to wire, there's still, er, 4 of those from last century.

  9. #49219
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    When I changed away from braid-to-wire on the Folkboat, the existing blocks were wide enough to take 10mm spectra so that was an easy change to make. Prevailing wisdom, based on racing, I think, is that you must use something without stretch for halyards. But we have regular braid on Masina and it's fine. Spectra, even down to 10mm, would be fine there too.
    Rick

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  10. #49220
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    It's a common problem. Some blocks for wire are actually just wide enough but not usually. I'd change them if you can but if not, well, maybe dyneema but I'd have a good look at a test piece before changing my halyards. Are yours wire spliced onto double braid or just wire?
    Just wire. But thinking as a result of this discussion there must be a way to hang ordinary blocks off my mast fittings and run 12mm or whatever rope through them.

  11. #49221
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Which is why you don't use dyneema for mooring lines.
    dyneema straight to your mooring no. But I have 5 or so meters of 'long wall' chain (Heavy) that acts as a spring.
    does the same job as the climbing rope.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  12. #49222
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Most of the time, yes. But when the boat takes off in an extreme gust and straightens out the chain, then there is shock loading. If your line is not elastic enough, then the load is transferred to the bow fitting.
    Rick

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  13. #49223
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    And then....

  14. #49224
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    The advantage of dyneema is its strength, of course. I suppose putting a snubber on a swing mooring line might work but I prefer to use line that's strong enough and elastic enough. Aquatec 25mm is pretty much standard and that's what I use. There is another one that's also common but I don't know what it is.
    Rick

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  15. #49225
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    dyneema straight to your mooring no. But I have 5 or so meters of 'long wall' chain (Heavy) that acts as a spring.
    does the same job as the climbing rope.
    I have about 6m of ground chain that's about 20mm then about 8m of chain about 12-15mm then 8m of Aquatec 25mm. The mooring is 1T square block. Masina would be roughly the weight of a Tasman Seabird and with similar or less windage. We get wind as strong as anything that hits Jervis Bay but nowhere near as much chop. I think if I were you, Gypsie, I'd add another length of chain to your setup.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  16. #49226
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Most of the time, yes. But when the boat takes off in an extreme gust and straightens out the chain, then there is shock loading. If your line is not elastic enough, then the load is transferred to the bow fitting.
    My mooring consists of a one ton block 3m of barge chain and 6 m of 12 mm chain. I ran the chain just across the roller from where a short nylon lead attaches to the Sampson post. Within two week my mooring block was flipped on its side, which after some observation confirmed the chain was snubbing the bow severely in certain tide and wind conditions.
    Since than I adopted a secondary 3m snubbing line terminating just below the water level.

  17. #49227
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Finally something boat related, decent sandpaper.
    https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au/7...aper-roll.html
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  18. #49228
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Please explain.
    Rick

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  19. #49229
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Please explain.
    Who me?
    I was under the impression for years that this sandpaper had been discontinued. Its good stuff.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  20. #49230
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    I have about 6m of ground chain that's about 20mm then about 8m of chain about 12-15mm then 8m of Aquatec 25mm. The mooring is 1T square block. Masina would be roughly the weight of a Tasman Seabird and with similar or less windage. We get wind as strong as anything that hits Jervis Bay but nowhere near as much chop. I think if I were you, Gypsie, I'd add another length of chain to your setup.
    I'll have another look at it before i get her back in the water.
    A goodly part of the problem with my incident was the interaction with the boat directly west of me. I need to have a chat with my neighbour - his mooring is a very tight loop. I suspect my boat was actually landing on his - the damage to my stern was pretty extreme, what it did to the steel work was extraordinary. I think the whole thing was acting very eccentrically.

    And my easterly neighbour (who installs moorings - and assists/advises me with my mooring maintenance) is on a very wide arc. Kind of meat in the sandwich.

    I do not dismiss the idea that the forces were as you describe Rick.

    I had aquatec as my rope for the mooring - but i swapped out because the chaffe was worrying. It seemed to kind of melt together and over about 6 months i'd lost perhaps 10% or more. Its the constant lifting of the chain that i felt was the problem.

    JB has quite different conditions depending on where you are.
    The southern end (vincentia mooring field) gets hit by a rapid chop, 0.5m to 1m, pretty much all summer - NE wind with about 8 miles of fetch and particularly gusty during the day (35knot gusts for a couple of hours, about midday to afternoon, would be daily). The moorings there are quite different - they ubiquitously (it seems) use a float that is forced under to absorb the energy. But they have a lot more room around their boats than Callala Bay.

    The northern end where i am, is exposed to direct southerlies. JB, deceptively, cants south - so a true southerly swell can run all the way into Callala Bay. There is a reef that absorbs the majority of the energy. About maybe twice a year there's a big low off the east coast that brings serious conditions in there. The wind is the killer. That's the main focus of mooring strategies. I'm sheltered from a NE - brings almost no chop, a strong (sustained) easterly almost never happens.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  21. #49231
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Yes, you. Thanks!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  22. #49232
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    I'll have another look at it before i get her back in the water.
    A goodly part of the problem with my incident was the interaction with the boat directly west of me. I need to have a chat with my neighbour - his mooring is a very tight loop. I suspect my boat was actually landing on his - the damage to my stern was pretty extreme, what it did to the steel work was extraordinary. I think the whole thing was acting very eccentrically.

    And my easterly neighbour (who installs moorings - and assists/advises me with my mooring maintenance) is on a very wide arc. Kind of meat in the sandwich.

    I do not dismiss the idea that the forces were as you describe Rick.

    I had aquatec as my rope for the mooring - but i swapped out because the chaffe was worrying. It seemed to kind of melt together and over about 6 months i'd lost perhaps 10% or more. Its the constant lifting of the chain that i felt was the problem.

    JB has quite different conditions depending on where you are.
    The southern end (vincentia mooring field) gets hit by a rapid chop, 0.5m to 1m, pretty much all summer - NE wind with about 8 miles of fetch and particularly gusty during the day (35knot gusts for a couple of hours, about midday to afternoon, would be daily). The moorings there are quite different - they ubiquitously (it seems) use a float that is forced under to absorb the energy. But they have a lot more room around their boats than Callala Bay.

    The northern end where i am, is exposed to direct southerlies. JB, deceptively, cants south - so a true southerly swell can run all the way into Callala Bay. There is a reef that absorbs the majority of the energy. About maybe twice a year there's a big low off the east coast that brings serious conditions in there. The wind is the killer. That's the main focus of mooring strategies. I'm sheltered from a NE - brings almost no chop, a strong (sustained) easterly almost never happens.
    I guessed you might be in a tight area, to have such short chain. That's a difficult problem to solve if you haven't got any other choice.

    Aquatec is ugly stuff. It looks like raffia, especially when it's been worked. But it's strong and durable and its weave provides a lot of elasticity. I have a big galvanised thimble where the rope joins a big swivel on the chain.

    Having enough chain to provide that spring effect is really important, as long as you have the space. If you don't have the space then obviously the spring has to be built into the line, somehow. Maybe something like Tom's big snubber?

    In the last 5 years, we've had two storms that dragged moorings, ripped bow fittings off boats and created general chaos. The rest of the time, a length of double braid tied to a star picket would probably be enough.
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

  23. #49233
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    20200524_110409.jpg I hope that the photo is boat related enough to appear in this blog. It is a exquisite model of a traditional fishing outrigger that was given to me during my time in Tuvalu working on an Ausaid project. It was made using exactly the same number of parts as the full scale outriggers. It includes a scale model of the timber bailing vessel and a container for the tobacco and papers.

    Bruce

  24. #49234
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    An early smart phone too.

  25. #49235
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'm not sure how a post could be more boat related!

    Lovely model, Bruce!
    Rick

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  26. #49236
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Morley View Post
    20200524_110409.jpg I hope that the photo is boat related enough to appear in this blog. It is a exquisite model of a traditional fishing outrigger that was given to me during my time in Tuvalu working on an Ausaid project. It was made using exactly the same number of parts as the full scale outriggers. It includes a scale model of the timber bailing vessel and a container for the tobacco and papers.

    Bruce
    When I was in PNG I saw kids make little outrigger models with a sail made from clear plastic bag. Often with a Beetle nut as ballast on the outrigger...they sailed beautifully. One kid made a windsurfer about 4 inches long, sail was a bit of banana leaf and the rudder was the lid off a tin.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  27. #49237
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Hello wx. I have always been amazed at the ingenuity of the people of the pacific Islands and have enjoyed my time in the area. Which reminds me of the time I was building a microwave radio system to link Misima Island to the mainland of PNG. We were camped on a mountain top on the island of Normandy with 15 men from the island and they had cut out the shape of a transister radio from a sheet of polystyrene and they took turns to read the news each evening after dinner. They later built a small stage and would give concerts using the the musical instruments that we had flown over in the chopper. Hard work but great memories

    Bruce

  28. #49238
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Morley View Post
    Hello wx. I have always been amazed at the ingenuity of the people of the pacific Islands and have enjoyed my time in the area. Which reminds me of the time I was building a microwave radio system to link Misima Island to the mainland of PNG. We were camped on a mountain top on the island of Normandy with 15 men from the island and they had cut out the shape of a transister radio from a sheet of polystyrene and they took turns to read the news each evening after dinner. They later built a small stage and would give concerts using the the musical instruments that we had flown over in the chopper. Hard work but great memories

    Bruce
    I spent 6 weeks up there at the invitation of a mate who was the Principal Veterinary Officer for PNG. I spent 3 weeks building a Phil Bolger Diablo for the Mosbi vet, also an expat. I had a great time. I have photos on a disc somewhere.
    ​"Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect." Irrfan Khan. RIP

  29. #49239
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    That is a beautiful model!
    Absolutely jealous - gorgeous.
    You should record the date, place you received it and the if you can the person who gave it to you. Roll it up in a little piece if paper and keep it with it.

    Traditionally those models were made as teaching aids. Young men often had to make a canoe, by themselves, in order to marry - prove they were mature and could look after a family. The canoe models would be used to teach them.
    One village i was in in Vanuatu, the young men had to do two things, build a canoe and stop whinging. If you stopped whinging it meant you were prepared to take on life. The girl too was challenged with the whinging thing. young hormones could be well harnessed - that first canoe build must feel like an eternity.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  30. #49240
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I do have the date etc and the original paper the it was wrapped. He also gave me a lenght of tradditional hand spun twine made of the fibre of coconut husk, the hand spinning is done by rolling the fibre along the top of the thigh of the spinner. The twine has 4 strands rather than the common 3 strand rope.

  31. #49241
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Love the model.
    Mangi mangi coconut fibre string. We bought that in the southern lau ,Fiji last year. They boil and roll the fibre from specific trees with large football shaped coconuts, sort of back splice the fibres as they go along , but it's a three strand plait they use. Maybe they have other methods for heavier applications but this the common utility sennit for string and decorative work.
    20200525_123858.jpg

  32. #49242
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Hi Gypsie, Maybe I was too pleased to receive the gifts and didn't think to ask about his daughters. I was allready married and it would not have occurred to me what the significance was.

    Bruce

  33. #49243
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    While I was working in PNG I had the honour of being made an honorary chief of one of the Ramu Valley clans as axresukt of some work I did resolving some long standing financial and landowner disputes. I think the fibres in the ceremonial codpiece I was given are some sort of animal hair rather than coconut. I'd post a pic but my phone is not cooperating.

  34. #49244
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    Default

    Here it is. I got Tapatalk going again. Phew.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  35. #49245
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    When I left PNG, I was given a send off at a restaurant. I'd already sent all my stuff home by ship etc. but at this event I was given a ton of stuff - carvings, bilums, paintings etc., even a shield. Which was really nice but then I had to get it home ....
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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