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Thread: Antipodean Boats Connection

  1. #43436
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    Building a new rig is a big job whichever way you look at it. I've never really liked the look of square masts. I would say it's no place to cut corners. But that's exactly what it is. I suspect that once you have the method sorted in your head birdsmouth is not much harder than square.


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  2. #43437
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    This is a bit of a signature dish. Something special. I call it slow cooked quick oats with sultanas, creamy milk and dark brown sugar.




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  3. #43438
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I have a similar breakfast. I call it Weet Bix with other stuff in it.

    Rick

  4. #43439
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Building a new rig is a big job whichever way you look at it. I've never really liked the look of square masts. I would say it's no place to cut corners. But that's exactly what it is. I suspect that once you have the method sorted in your head birdsmouth is not much harder than square.


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    It's easier for me as it allows second hand oregon to be used and the nail holes and knots to be cut out and the shorts scarfed into longs.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  5. #43440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    This is a bit of a signature dish. Something special. I call it slow cooked quick oats with sultanas, creamy milk and dark brown sugar.




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    Are you living aboard?


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  6. #43441
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    He shouldn't have mentioned that Gardiner.

    Rick

  7. #43442
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    He shouldn't have mentioned that Gardiner.

    Rick
    We talking about Dunc landscapin' again?

  8. #43443
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucemoffatt View Post
    Are you living aboard?


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    Just a sleepover


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  9. #43444
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Apparently that Gardner came out of that boat.
    When I first joined WBF they made me write a book to prove I was a real yachty. I was so gullible.
    Paperback E-book

  10. #43445
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    In a decision I will probably regret forever I think I'll give that Gardner a miss.Having looked at it in the flesh, its just too big to play with. I dont even know how Id get it off my truck at home, and thats if I had a spare shed bay to put it in, which I dont.

  11. #43446
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'd expect to see some triangular fillets in each inside corner , Tom.
    You get them off the outside corners ( where the scissors are)
    I'd go with fillets as well.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  12. #43447
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'd expect to see some triangular fillets in each inside corner , Tom.
    You get them off the outside corners ( where the scissors are)
    Thanks for pointing that out John. I was actually planning to use 50 x50 mm end pieces which would also increase the diameter marginally.

    While I would probably favour a birds mouth spar my cheap table saw adjustment is somewhat compromised,which I have been unable to solve.

  13. #43448
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Tom , measure where it goes to and cut as best you can to remove the bulk of the waste. If you have a router table or can make one you can true the 45x45 cut with a router bit and get a perfect job.

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
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  14. #43449
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    WB gaff conversion is back on and I have plans to sail her with her new rig in next years Vintage Regatta.

    Presently exploring the idea of building a lighter scantling 8-9 m box mast and shaping it. Going square rather than birds mouth in my opinion will be quicker require less accuracy and manpower.

    Looking for feedback on my proposal?

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Hey Tom. I built 2 birdsmouth masts years ago when I new half as much as I know now and it was pretty easy. I cut it all up on a table saw (just made a little jig that kept the sticks from moving around as I cut the 45's). I had a couple of mates help on the day, 1 mixing epoxy and the other helping put it all together. Half an hour and its all clamped up. Your an ex Chippie yeah? It quite a satisfying build watching it all pull up together
    Last edited by Geftb; 08-07-2018 at 07:58 AM.

  15. #43450
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Tom, I'm with the others who say if you're going to build a hollow mast, build it birdsmouth. I'm not an engineer, but it seems like a birdsmouth spar would be stronger for a given weight too, because you have grain laying in so many different planes, and the round(ish) walled tube is more structurally efficient. ...isn't it?

    ...and I'm going to have to get started on my secret weapon for the next Vintage Regatta too I guess. :-D
    Last edited by MattSplatt; 08-07-2018 at 08:13 AM.

  16. #43451
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Also, on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    ...square rather than birds mouth in my opinion will be quicker require less accuracy and manpower...
    I don't agree with this.
    - They both need to be *reasonably* accurate. (you'll be using epoxy, yes?).
    - I haven't built either type, but from descriptions of birdsmouth spar builds, it kind of almost assembles itself, whereas the box spar would have be be accurately jigged and aligned and aligned again and who knows what else. The eight pieces of a birdsmouth assembly just need bands pulling it all together, then check the whole spar for straightness before the glue goes off.

  17. #43452
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'm talking from my backside, of course. I'll have to build that birdsmouth western red cedar SUP paddle I've been daydreaming about. Then I'll have some vague clue what I'm talking about.

    Sorry, I'll stop the random typing of messages now and go to bed.

    I sailed Pixie to Mooloolaba today. Arrived well after dark. Tired. :-)
    Last edited by MattSplatt; 08-07-2018 at 08:13 AM.

  18. #43453
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Michael Storer rates box over round for strength relative to diameter, but given you're rounding it over, that strength is gone. I'd guess birds mouth might be faster considering the amount t of shaping it will take to make that square round as well.

  19. #43454
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I personally would go with birdsmouth, it is surprisingly simple and as has been said, self aligning.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  20. #43455
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSplatt View Post
    I'm talking from my backside, of course. I'll have to build that birdsmouth western red cedar SUP paddle I've been daydreaming about. Then I'll have some vague clue what I'm talking about.

    Sorry, I'll stop the random typing of messages now and go to bed.

    I sailed Pixie to Mooloolaba today. Arrived well after dark. Tired. :-)
    Thanks everyone for the great feedback on various mast building tools and techniques. Stopping of in Brunswick Heads last week I met the owner of Geko who build this 8 m gaff mast using 50x50 and shaping it .I then reduced the scantlings to suit existing materials on hand estimating It would be strong enough with the additional dyneema rigging and spreaders I am planning to use.
    Then again speaking to Peter Kerr he advocates just using a solid laminated mast .

    Matt great to hear Pixiehad an uneventful passage and is located closer to home.
    Since I assume an SUP is a sculling oar you might be interested in my Surf Lifesaving steering sweep ,complete with the stainless gimballed stainless row lock fitting. With minor trimming and shortening you could probably adapt it easily, it’s sitting in my shed if you can use it .

    [IMG][/IMG]

  21. #43456
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    It's quite likely a solid laminated mast is not a large weight penalty at the scantlings you are looking at. A hollow mast will still need solid sections (with tapered internal blocking to eliminate stress risers) at the partners and gaff full-hoist point. It's a lot of fiddling (for either hollow build method).
    Remember that part of Peter Kerr's job is to be cost effective in time spent on construction, so if you have lots of spare time and want to try a hollow mast then it's still a good way to build a mast.

    'SUP' is Stand Up Paddle board. I am interested in the steering sweep. What is the nature of a steering sweep oar compared to a sculling oar? How are they different in shape?

  22. #43457
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Just for your reference Tom. Sitting on my desk I have an offcut of oregon that is 105 diameter x100mm long, its from an old bowsprit and is really quite a close grained piece of wood. Much much closer than that wood you have so no doubt heavier . It weighs .5 of a kilo, ie 5 kg per metre.
    Back when I cared I would then calculate the square that gets left out for the hollow equivalent spar. In rough terms I see I've noted its about a 25 % saving of material/ weight, so in that example about 1.25 kg per metre which , if I go into zen mode and access the compac 286 that lives between my ears, could be about 12.5 kg saving per 10 metre spar, less blocking.

  23. #43458
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    My birdsmouth mast is nine metres, 150mm at the base, 220mm at the partners and 100mm at the top, it weighs 87 kgs.
    Last edited by WX; 08-08-2018 at 04:53 PM.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  24. #43459
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Obviously given my SUP slip up I am in unknown territory when discussing steering or sculling oars .I just had a look at the SO and the stainless gimballed oar collar revolves around the oar stock which theoretically would suggest the figure eight of a sweeping oar required should work.

    Possibly someone with practical sculling experience could comment.

  25. #43460
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Just for your reference Tom. Sitting on my desk I have an offcut of oregon that is 105 diameter x100mm long, its from an old bowsprit and is really quite a close grained piece of wood. Much much closer than that wood you have so no doubt heavier . It weighs .5 of a kilo, ie 5 kg per metre.
    Back when I cared I would then calculate the square that gets left out for the hollow equivalent spar. In rough terms I see I've noted its about a 25 % saving of material/ weight, so in that example about 1.25 kg per metre which , if I go into zen mode and access the compac 286 that lives between my ears, could be about 12.5 kg saving per 10 metre spar, less blocking.
    Thanks for the calculations John I now understand Peter advocating a solid spar , since the weight saving is relatively. minor especially when going modern gaff mast and eliminating all that heavy rigging with the use of Dyneema

  26. #43461
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Here is the best calculator I've found Tom. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/howto/birdsmouth/
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  27. #43462
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    My birdsmouth mast is nine metres, 150mm at the base, 220mm at the partners and 100mm at the top, it weighs 87 kts.
    Thats fast

  28. #43463
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I just stumbled on an ad for my much loved big steel boat. They could have used a better picture.

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/st-h...54-/1176551509

  29. #43464
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by MattSplatt View Post
    It's quite likely a solid laminated mast is not a large weight penalty at the scantlings you are looking at. A hollow mast will still need solid sections (with tapered internal blocking to eliminate stress risers) at the partners and gaff full-hoist point. It's a lot of fiddling (for either hollow build method).
    Remember that part of Peter Kerr's job is to be cost effective in time spent on construction, so if you have lots of spare time and want to try a hollow mast then it's still a good way to build a mast.

    'SUP' is Stand Up Paddle board. I am interested in the steering sweep. What is the nature of a steering sweep oar compared to a sculling oar? How are they different in shape?
    The sweep oar is a flat blade whereas the other oars have curved blades.

    Rick

  30. #43465
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    Does anyone have suggestions please about how to cut a couple of rectangular holes in new 6mm thick acrylic (perspex) sheet, without cracking or shattering it?


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  31. #43466
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I would use a router, it works well for me, a guide and a pattern follower bit.. Do you have enough to experiment with ?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  32. #43467
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    The sweep oar is a flat blade whereas the other oars have curved blades.

    Rick

    Curved in section? Both faces, or only one?
    I could easily build up the blade and reshape it if the rest of it is suitable.

  33. #43468
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I'm assuming we're talking about surfboat oars? The rowing oars are spooned out so the aft facing side of the blade is concave. The sweep's oar is a long symmetrical (flat) blade.

    Worth noting that surfboat oars are very big. If you used a sweep oar for an SUP paddle, you could perhaps use the offcuts to make the SUP board.

    Rick
    Last edited by RFNK; 08-08-2018 at 03:46 AM.

  34. #43469
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I would use a router, it works well for me, a guide and a pattern follower bit.. Do you have enough to experiment with ?


    I've got a bit of spare to play with, and a monstrous router. I thought that might just smash the acrylic to shrapnel. I'll give it a whizz.


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  35. #43470
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    Default Re: Antipodean Boats Connection

    I've cut perspex with a table saw, drop saw, bandsaw and router. It machines pretty well as long as it's a bit thick. 6mm is a good thickness. I don't think you'll have any trouble with the router. I'd only be concerned if the perspex is old, cracked stuff.

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