Antipodean Boats Connection

[MattSplatt]

Which way do we cut scarfs in relation to bending loads? I forget. Load kind of perpendicular to glue plane, or in plane across the joint?

[Small boats rock]

Strength not necessary unless... one day you are happily yulohing pixie when some bloke comes along in his boat also under yuloh power, but it looks like he is ever so slowly going to overhaul pixie, what are you going to do?

[WX]

Which way do we cut scarfs in relation to bending loads? I forget. Load kind of perpendicular to glue plane, or in plane across the joint?

How about a V shaped scarf with a solid core sleeve?

[MattSplatt]

Strength not necessary unless... one day you are happily yulohing pixie when some bloke comes along in his boat also under yuloh power, but it looks like he is ever so slowly going to overhaul pixie, what are you going to do?

I'll suddenly pretend I saw something utterly fascinating in the water, and get completely distracted trying to spot it again.

[MattSplatt]

How about a V shaped scarf with a solid core sleeve?

Does that mean the scarf can consume less length, because the taper is folded back on itself?

[Small boats rock]

I'll suddenly pretend I saw something utterly fascinating in the water, and get completely distracted trying to spot it again.

You mean so he will get distracted while you are nonchalantly heaving twice as hard on your yuloh. Best make the join strong.

[MattSplatt]

:-D

Given it was a surfboat steering sweep (albeit a broken one, twice) my structural demands on it probably won't be near what it was originally designed for.

[WX]

Does that mean the scarf can consume less length, because the taper is folded back on itself?

I don’t know but I’d do the solid core as well and extend it a couple of inches beyond the scarf. Of course I tend to over build.

[gypsie]

When I've seen the solid core done, a long wedge was cut out of each end to avoid hard spots.
Thinking about it, cutting in 2 perpendicular wedges should be better.

[auscruisertom]

Tom,
I cut that sweep oar next to the butt-glued break, as I needed to store it more easily while I do a couple of other things.
I managed to get a photo that sort of shows the older repair I mentioned the other day, with all the layers. The other end of that repair is the mirror image, in other words there are 1/2" pieces curved into it.

And, the original build was hollow! In the second photo I circled the other glue lines that are a bit hard to see.
In the second photo, the bottom 'cheek' (with the fine straight glue line and tight grain) is original, the top one is mostly part of the other repair.

Had I know it was hollow I’d been tempted to use it in next years Vintage Regatta as a possible mizzenmast , mabey then Pixie wouldn’t shadow WB quite so closely.

[pelagos]

I got a good boat restoration boat link from the Waitemata Woodies blog https://www.svleda.com
Good looking post-war NZ boat, with photo's/documentation of the initial build, and 90's restoration in Juneau. If anyone wants to emulate the process with another NZ boat, Uira was FTGH in Melbourne recently https://www.facebook.com/Uira.yacht and is 6 foot shorter so will only take ((7 years/51ft)*45ft = 6 years) 6 years to restore in comparison!

[MattSplatt]

Had I know it was hollow I’d been tempted to use it in next years Vintage Regatta as a possible mizzenmast , mabey then Pixie wouldn’t shadow WB quite so closely.

Only about half of it was hollow after that long repair.

[PeterSibley]

Had I know it was hollow I’d been tempted to use it in next years Vintage Regatta as a possible mizzenmast , mabey then Pixie wouldn’t shadow WB quite so closely.

Do you still want that wind surfer mast Tom?

[MattSplatt]

I finally went out for a sail this arvo! It was a bit sloppy thanks to the NE, and we went out in about 15kt and it dropped to about 10 by the time we came back. Good fun. Got wet.

I technically missed three calendar weeks, but it's been almost five weeks since the last time we went. I got lots of useful work done at home though, so never mind.

The motor behaved itself today, and I patted it and said thank you when we got back in.

[MattSplatt]

Had I know it was hollow I’d been tempted to use it in next years Vintage Regatta as a possible mizzenmast , mabey then Pixie wouldn’t shadow WB quite so closely.

...Also, it would have been no good as a mizzen mast because it's almost exactly right in all dimensions to be made into a yuloh. Thank you!

[Small boats rock]

Should be more yulohs in the world. I have one for my paradox which has moved her quite a few miles, and based on this experience I'll be building a bigger yuloh for my new boat. However, first things first, it is starting to get into bush fire season here and I can't handle the stress anymore, so I have a tilt tray truck booked for Monday to take the new boat 150 clicks down to the cruising yacht club. Can't wait to get her near the water where she belongs. Also can't wait for the beer that will surely follow a successful move.

[MattSplatt]

Moving the boat away from the fire risk sounds like a very good plan.

[Small boats rock]

Yep. Statistically the chances of a fire wiping out my place are not high, but my place is in a big area of natural bush land. In the event that a fire did head my way my only priority would be getting me out of here. In any case I need to step the mast to get accurate measurements for the standing rigging and I can't do that in a shed with only 4 metres clearance at the highest part of the roof... so time to move.

[MattSplatt]

Time to move, indeed.

...although, you might not need to stand the mast to get measurements. Is it keel stepped? Do you have much room for adjustment at the bottom? (dead-eyes and lashings, or bottle screws)? In that case you don't need accurate measurements.
Make them all a bit too long (**Plus the allowance for the splice, it's a *long* bury), attach everything at the top then stand the mast once only and wedge it in place. Splice all the bottom ends to the right length, in place, with the mast up. They take about two minutes each once you've done a couple.

We put Pixie together this way, and the only mishap was because one of us grabbed the wrong piece of rigging and cheerfully marked it and cut for splicing before noticing it was the outer forestay, not the cap shroud. Sadly, it had been cut too short, not too long. I was hoisted up in the chair to attach a new one.

[MattSplatt]

...and no, it wasn't me! :-)

It's expensive stuff, but the offending bit of dynex was made into bobstay and bowsprit shrouds, so no problem.

[Small boats rock]

Yes, keel stepped, but only 6m because not only is she small but she has a fairly old style gaff rig. The plan is to have the shrouds and stays a bit short to accommodate lashings at the lower ends, and to use turnbuckles for final tensioning. Thanks for your good ideas about how to step just once. I'm not yet settled on exactly how to make the rigging. The approach used in that 'new rig for Julia' thread is inspiring and I have some ideas for a version better suited to hot climates. Specifically, my experimenting is with white polyester lacing used as serving over Dynice (no parcelling) and white paint over the serving. It will do for the eyes. Not yet decided about full service, or just to leave the rest as bare twelve strand. The paint idea is questionable too since neither white spirit nor turps are very good for the rigging... but so far it looks like the paint doesn't really make it through the service so the rigging is safe. Of course water based paint could be used except that polyester does't absorb water, but it does absorb oil. Another way is to use nylon serving instead, which does absorb water so water based paint would be fine, only problem is nylon is a mongrel to work with ( unless tarred, which is no good for my purpose). Phew, sorry, that got a bit long winded.

[MattSplatt]

:-)

I don't know much about the parcelling/serving and what works. The paint experiment will be interesting.

I love the rig for Julia, because it's completely traditional (which has obviously worked for a long time) other than the nature of the rope inside all the parcelling and serving. It's quite possible that arrangement can last almost forever.

Do you mean temporary turnbuckles to get everything tightened down, or turnbuckles in the bottom of the shrouds? If you're going with lashings use just the lashings. You can get them plenty tight, and you get rid of a heap of steel hardware, which is one of the great benefits of using synthetic rigging (especially if you're getting rid of stainless steel).

[RFNK]

I really like the new synthetic rigging materials and Masina's next rig will be synthetic. But I do like the fine and easy adjustment that turnbuckles provide. I'd be very reluctant to forgo that.

Looking at boats with synthetic rigging lately, I'm surprised how many don't have really smooth steel connections at turnbuckles. My understanding is that dyneema is quite vulnerable to chafing and doesn't like sharp bends so I think I'd be looking for or modifying any fittings to make sure all connections are very smooth.

Rick

[auscruisertom]

...and no, it wasn't me! :-)

It's expensive stuff, but the offending bit of dynex was made into bobstay and bowsprit shrouds, so no problem.

Did you shop around for your rigging Matt and where did you end up purchasing it from?

I am am a little confused on the names of that stuff Dyneema, dynex, and I thought you previously said your rigging was Lux? I do like the black rigging look and probably will not go to the trouble of parceling .

When the mast is finished I will just lay the boat dimensions out on the grass and splice my top loops,and cut bottom to appropriate length, then splice on WB and attache to existing turnbuckle.

Hopefully you are practasing your Juhlodiling .

Rick are you suggesting stainless rings on the end of the turnbuckle ?

[RFNK]

I'm not sure Tom but something like that. They'd need to be quite thick. I think there may be a purpose-built fitting.

Rick

[RFNK]

Can we find out more about Juhlodiling?

Rick

[auscruisertom]

Do you still want that wind surfer mast Tom?

Yes thanks Peter and while I am at it can I take you up on the offer of another mast for WB from that magnificent stand of slash Pine of yours?

Thankfully I have just finished our three week marathon two bathrooms and toilet renovation with floating vanity’s ,mirror cabinets ect installed yesterday , and I might add no pipes or wires where harmed touch wood.
Although Nellie thought we should have marked all the villa board screws and Cyclone strapping after hitting at least two screws and multiple straps,resulting in one spare hole.

[Phil Y]

Can we find out more about Juhlodiling?

Rick

Great fun. Derived from the Pirate days. It's like Judo with a Yuloh. Similar to that Japanese stick fighting thing. But on the poop deck of a big old black boat. With sculling oars. That's the origin of the Jolly Roger. Skull and crossbones. Kind of a Pirate Pun. It's big in the Invictus games, for obvious reasons.

[auscruisertom]

Can we find out more about Juhlodiling?

Rick

I had something sung in Italian in mind ending with a good old lung piercing bit of Austrian Yodelling.
Lederhosen and the hat are optional.

[MattSplatt]

... marathon two bathrooms and toilet renovation with floating vanity’s ,mirror cabinets ect installed yesterday...

Why do they need to float? Is your plumbing work that dodgy?

[MattSplatt]

I really like the new synthetic rigging materials and Masina's next rig will be synthetic. But I do like the fine and easy adjustment that turnbuckles provide. I'd be very reluctant to forgo that.

Looking at boats with synthetic rigging lately, I'm surprised how many don't have really smooth steel connections at turnbuckles. My understanding is that dyneema is quite vulnerable to chafing and doesn't like sharp bends so I think I'd be looking for or modifying any fittings to make sure all connections are very smooth.

Rick

Fine adjustment is not as simple as a turnbuckle, it's true.
You can extend the lashing line to a winch, though, for more adjustment if you want it that tight. An old gaffer like Pixie is not a highly stressed rig, so I didn't feel the need to do that. I got final tension by firstly pulling a runner on hard on the same side as the shrouds I'm snugging up, then having another person pull directly outwards on a different shroud the same side to give me a tiny bit of slack to take up in the one I'm working on.

Yes, the attachment points should be smooth and reasonably large. Lashing line diameter is small, so they don't need to be *huge*. Smooth is very helpful though, especially when tightening lashings.

[MattSplatt]

Did you shop around for your rigging Matt and where did you end up purchasing it from? I am am a little confused on the names of that stuff Dyneema, dynex, and I thought you previously said your rigging was Lux? I do like the black rigging look and probably will not go to the trouble of parceling .

I might have called it Dux at some point. I'm not clear on the different rope names either, but I think most of them are trademarked product names of Hampidjan, who originally made the stuff, except for Dyneema which seems like a trademarked name of a source fibre rather than actual rope.

The stuff I used is what Peter Kerr uses (I'm pretty sure he said it's Australian made). The price was good and he already had some. I'll have to find out the name of it.

(a quick look at Hampidjan's product list shows ""Dynex SK75", "Dynice" and "Dynice Dux" as different ropes. I don't know how they differ.)

[MattSplatt]

Hopefully you are practasing your Juhlodiling .

Of course!
Now I'm bruised all over, have mild concussion and a very sore throat!

[auscruisertom]

Why do they need to float? Is your plumbing work that dodgy?

The plumbing and testing was spot on but then the rubber seal connector underneath started leaking due to a very uneven and badly quality controlled ceramic sink.outlet, just what I wanted to see this morning a floating vanity!!

Notice the bathtub is also adrift.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Phil Y]

Id call it wall hung. And hopefully well hung. looks great.